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breakor, Just to let you know the tranny shop did pull the pan for me and showed me the metal shavings and burnt, dark-colored fluid. They are an independant shop that has been around for 30 years. To be safe though, I did get a 2nd opinion and they arrived at the same conclusion. The cost for a rebuilt tranny is just over $2k including labor. He said they might be able to subtract $500 off of that if they can save the torque converter.
Here's what really gets me thinking though. I never had any problems with the truck until I had the service at 72.5K miles. To me that means only one of two things: 1.) This was a long problem that went undiagnosed by the dealer. 2.) The dealer actually caused the problem by improper fluid level and/or spraying the metal shavings throughout the tranny during the flush.
If its #1, shouldn't the dealer be inspecting the fluid being taken out for a burning smell, dark color, or shavings?
If its #2, isn't the dealer directly responsible for the problem? BTW, both tranny shops that I am dealing with completely disagree with tranny flushes. They say it can only aggrevate a problem (e.g. metal shavings). They say dropping the pan is the only way to really perform an inspection of the transmission. Not sure, but that seemed to make sense to me.
As I said in my previous post, I have fully (ok...reluctantly) accepted the fact that I am financial responsible for the repairs. I just want to know what happened and how to do things differently next time.
Did your dealer have an explanation for the failure after their work? Did they offer to give you any price consideration on a rebuild? Have you even asked them about this?
What did your tranny shops have to say about the situation? Specifically did they find the level to be correct? Did they think it odd that the fluid was that burnt 2.5kmis after the dealer service? The shops should be the true experts on this. Who knows they might be able to help you build a case against the dealer. A word of warning though just because your shops confirm that the dealer caused the problem doesn't necessarily mean a judge would. The dealer afterall can pack the courtroom with his experts saying they did nothing wrong.
Lastly, I believe that no one truly knows what is wrong with an AT until they tear into it. If your shop is going to install a rebuilt unit (the best option if you ask me) you may never really know what happened.
On the other hand, the odds of it being totaled by the insurance company in a collision that involves air bag deployment are fair since the value of this truck is next to nothing on paper and it will only get worse... and you wouldn't get your warranty money back.
Seriously, keep the money invested just in case until 2009 and it might be enough to get yourself the new Thai-made Isuzu Panther when it comes to the States around that time... that's one ugly vehicle right there :-)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6269&item=2456153746
-mike
PIAA Super Whites
100w Hellas
Cool Blue 80w cheapo ones
None make the lights better. I would just get some hella driving lights since the lights are so poor.
-mike
Runs great now, I even decided to put new tires on it as I'm in for the long haul and it's great for our weekly ski trips. I have the typical burns oil problem but other than that it's running great.
I wish Isuzu offered the 3.5L V6 DI engine on the Trooper, or at least the 3.0L TD.
Steve, Host
I must add that using the Trooper to pull a Jeep and a Rav4 out of ditches on the side of the road gave me some satisfaction. Gotta like those factory tow hooks.
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Example: On my uphill and around a corner to get out driveway covered in an inch of ice: I had a hard time to walk to my Trooper, take a few steps up hill and slide back down a step or two, I eventually made it to the Trooper. Once inside I let the engine warm up maybe 90 seconds, then high range 1st gear I pressed the 4wd button and let out the clutch gently. To my surprize, it just drove right along like it was on clean dry pavement. I was expecting to have to chop the ice away, but got off easy this time. This is the same ice conditons that caused a contractor with a heavy 2wd 3/4 ton Ford diesel pickup to leave his truck in my drveway for 4 days a few years ago and hitch a ride home with his employees that did not park down my hilly driveway.
I, for one, am not keen on this cycling of the TOD. In DC last year, when we had the big snowstorm, this cycling caused the vehicle to lose momentum and traction as the TOD cycled. When it was that slippery, I found that 4LO, along with its constant torque to both axles, propelled the vehicle much better. I wish that the TOD system would sense this condition, recognize it for what it is, and temporarily lock the axles or direct continuous torque to the front for a predetermined amount of time. It already does this to a certain extent when you give it gas. Try flooring it with TOD engaged. The TOD directs torque to its middle setting, regardless of slippage, and keeps it there until you let off the gas.
I, too, just installed AT/REVOs. Great tires. Much grippier than stock.
Tom
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Since then, the helpful guy is gone to be a manager at another store over towards Cary I think, he deserved the promotion. When my 1995 was totalled due to air bag deployment, I used the Discount tire at Six Forks and Wake Forest for swapping the 2001 original tires with all five Revos. (I left the 1995 up on jacks and filled the back of the 2001 with 5 tires) They offer a quick and trustworthy free repair, rotate and balance on the Revos since they put them on for me. And I like the people there. Discount Tire is where my wife's 2 minivans got three sets of Michelins so far.
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Revos have the unitaq-T-II or some name for a tire designed to expose softer rubber as the tread wears down, they say this preserved traction as they wear. This feature was important to me since I want maximum stopping power at all times. Along with wanting the tire to keep performing long time, I buy the correct load range for the Trooper to get the right rubber hardness and I do not wait until the very last to change them.
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On my 1984 Trooper I went through the original tires in 24K miles. Rubber flaps were hanging loose off the tread and the rear tires had noticeably (you could tell from 10 feet away) less tread left than the front ones after a drive to Alaska and back, the many hundreds of miles of dirt Alcan Highway were hard on the tires, I am to blame since I was sliding the turns on the gravel road most of the time. Anyway, with my 1984 I went with a larger size tire and a larger load rating. I got 90K miles on the Big-O tires I bought in Idaho, these died from an off raod blowout even though the tread still looked OK to me. On that trip I had a womens libber girlfriend with me and she insisted on changing the tire for me even though it was in mud and she needed help to lift the spare and loosen the lug nuts. She got quite a workout, I got entertainment. Next set of tires was also heavy duty type but of a generic brand, this set also went 90K. I changed this set after a long battle with what I thought was an alingment problem, it was out of round tires, they balanced just fine, but they no longer would roll straight. I replaced these with a set of used tires that had less tread on them than the 90K tires. I had an emergency stop situation on I-77 near Akron with the higher load range tires the brakes stopped the tires but the tires started sliding and there was much smoke and the traffic ahaed of me started moving again just in time to avoid a collision. I noticed that I was suddenly surrounded by a smoke cloud from my tires. Later I discovered that my front brakes were sticking on the calier pins and not working as they should and that caused the rear tires too much stopping load which caused the rear tires to be the ones that smoked.
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I have drifted hoplessly away from the subject. Sorry about that.
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I recommend the Revos highly. For me at least they seem to have great grip on everything from ice to wet pavement to Uwharrie off road and a long life.
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The Revos are much quieter than a AT tire, about as quiet as a regular M/S tire. But if quiet is your top priority then get the Dueler H/L or the Michelin SUV tire with the "North American Tread". "North American Tread" refers to tires that have a continuous tread at the outside edged to trap the noise.
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Too Long so I'll stop now
-mike
PS: Last time I was at Uwharrie I did the whole weekend in TOD just to prove the point
I bought a Trooper when they first came out in 1984!, It was silver and I had red/silver tape graphics on the side of it, it was really sharp. Did you know that the backseat was a option?, if you wanted it it was a dealer installed option. I kept the truck for 4 years 88,000 miles.
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The Trooper was much better at going places than the van of course. And I took it imediately to the 4x4 trails where I got comments like how can you bring that brand new truck out here?
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I drove it 201K miles and finally decided to get a new Trooper with air conditioning since I had by then moved to NC where summer is hot and sticky. It ran perfecly except for a power steering tensioner pulley that went out due to poorly desiged bearings. I had a tiny drip from the water pump at 140K so I changed the water pump and all belts just that once. I also changed the alternator once. And the original battery looked like something out of a motorcycle so I changed that to support the KC Daylighters on my Alaska trip......
I don't have a problem replacing the motor if that's really the problem, but how can a stalled blower motor be related to the fresh/recirc flapper? I thought maybe the flapper pushed a little air through and that got it going, but yesterday when it happened I left it alone and rolled down the windows as I got on the highway. Nothing... until I moved the flapper. Any ideas?
Brian
A couple quick questions, used to own a piece of crap Geo Tracker (first car and budget was tight), so i definitly know all about the roll ratings, so i am well aware of how the trooper might fell while turning, is there anything i can do that could help make me feel like the trooper isn't leaning so much in turns for example without jeopardizing myself by ACTUALLY making the trooper more rollable? I have heard of shocks that are more stiff but know there are a heck of alot of options, know nothing about shocks, and to me sounds like stiff shocks would make for a better roll rate.
The other question is basically . . . Anything else i should know about the trooper? Thanks for the help all!
Keep an eye on its oil level. They are oil gluttons as a rule.
- replace sway bar bushings. Cheap and easy and surprisingly effective. How-to on isuzu-suvs.com.
- better shocks. I recommend OME Nitrochargers or Rancho 9000s if you are going off-road, but almost any decent shock will be better than the stock ones.
- stiffer Calmini sway bars.
- stiffer OME rear coils will help body roll, and provide about 1.5" lift, and better load/towing handling in general.
- stiffer Sway-Away front torsion bars.
The trooper has been know for some directional steering issues, it is a truck and most car shops cannot align it or service the tires properly. Since it is so heavy it tends to follow the curvature of the road more than a car. Myself as well as others on this board have had a pull to the left or right that took a "good" alignment shop to fix. Nothing major, but frustrating when you go to a firestone to get something resolved, it isn't, and then you have to research and pay a "good" place to do it. I recommend if you are in need of an alignment or have a pull, get on some tech forums first and find out good places before you bring it in.
I added the OME shocks front a rear and they are great. I have a bullbar and with stock shocks the ride was degraded, when I added the OMEs, the ride with the bullbar was much better than stock. Try www.rocky-road.com to start for shocks.
Any lift (as with the OME springs) will make you somewhat more likely to roll, that's simple physics.
But I don't think stiffer anti-roll upgrades will make you more likely to roll from a physical standpoint. The biggest danger is that psychologically you might drive faster than you should because you don't have the same amount of tippyness warning you before you actually go over.
If you are a driver that pays attention to his vehicle's handling characteristics you probably will be fine.