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Questions About Financing New Vehicles

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Comments

  • leeandginaleeandgina Member Posts: 38
    I guess they looked at the "big picture". We have had difficulties in the past 18 months with myself losing my job, but we have financed a $40k+ audi (just returned to dealer at end of lease), $35k BMW (previous car) and never missed a payment. My wife makes very good money too (works for a telecom company).

    I have no doubt the dealer worked very hard for us with Volvo Finance, and for that we are very grateful. Bobby Rahal dealers have a fantastic rep in our area for this reason - their Mercedes dealership was #1 in the country for CSI and Volvo was #9. I cant recall what their Jag dealer was, but it was top 10 too i think.

    To clarify, our score was from a report we ran at home a few weeks before buying - i think it was experian but im not 100% on that. I have no idea what the other agency #s are.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    If you have had recent problems that caused late payments why would you jump into another $500 payment? Wouldn't it have been better to buy something a little less expensive until you can insure there won't be a repeat of your past troubles?

    As far as Ford/Volvo credit giving someone with a 575 beacon a 2.9% interest rate ... kinda makes you wonder why you even pay your bills on time in the first place. I have a 750 beacon and received 3.49% from my credit union on my 04 Accord. Sure it was their lowest rate but still .....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You would be surprised. Instead of taking a conservative course, most of the people who have had troubles in the past won't settle for something sensible. They want it all...top of the line, leather, navi, rear spoiler etc.

    I don't understand but that's O.K. too...
  • leeandginaleeandgina Member Posts: 38
    Why do you assume because we HAD problems we have them now? I have a job now, we owe zero on our house and between us our incomes are north of 100k pa. Hopefully our problems are in the past. We also dropped over $300/month off our car payment. The car we bought was a base with audio and heated seats as the only options.. no leather, no sunroof etc.

    Maybe we would have been better off buying an econobox from a honda dealer and paying 20%APR... I forget that everyone else on here has 800+ scores and has never lost a job or had other troubles out of their control.*rolls eyes*

    Next you'll be telling me honda dealers turn business away if they think the customer might be stretching their finances....
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I never said that you were currently having problems. I stated that since you have HAD problems so recently why not wait a while to make sure those same problems do not reoccur?

    Not everyone has a 800 beacon or there wouldn't be secondary lenders. I think most of us were just trying to give you some advice to keep you from making the same mistakes again. But it's your life, if you think you made the best decision for yourself then that's all that matters. Just don't boast about having so-so credit and getting an excellent interest rate and not expect some feedback.

    "Maybe we would have been better off buying an econobox from a honda dealer"

    Well from a reliability and a resale perspective you probably would have been better off with an econobox from Honda. But that's a different forum...

    "Next you'll be telling me honda dealers turn business away if they think the customer might be stretching their finances.... "

    I also don't recall anyone saying a Honda dealer would turn people away if they think they are stretching their finances. However, it is a fact that American Honda Finance will not buy as "deep" as other captive lenders. Fact is, Ford and GM brands are a little more desperate to sell cars so they will take a bigger risk to get business.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I wasn't specifically referring to your situation when I posted that.

    I was just talking in general terms about what I see everyday in my business.

    Sometimes I feel like having a "Dutch Uncle" talk with some of my customers but, of course, I never do.

    I see people on the edge, financially who just have to still have it all even though they wil struggle to make the payments.

    That's the part I don't understand.
  • leeandginaleeandgina Member Posts: 38
    sorry for being so defensive. My whole point with my original post was to praise the hard work of the dealer to help us buy a car at a good interest rate. All too often you read about dealers taking advantage of people with less than perfect credit and making their situation worse.

    As far as getting in over your head, well, what job ~is~ secure these days? As far as i know, things are looking good for the future but you never can tell. In our situation, a $485/month car payment for 2 working people (we ride together to work) isnt terrible at all; we are correcting our credit issues and hopefully when the time comes to replace the car we will be back in the high 600s.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If it's mostly slow pays you can recover fairly quickly. If you have chargeoffs, it's a different story.
  • bearkatdancerbearkatdancer Member Posts: 1
    I'm 19 and trying to get a car. I've never been late on a single payment for my cell or my credit cards but I've only had them a year. My parents have horrible credit, so it looks like its up to me to do this...Anyone have any advice?
  • nitroclnitrocl Member Posts: 5
    I Currently have a 646,624, and a 590 fico scores. What score should I wait for to get a good interest rate or favorable rates with online banks such as Peoplefirst?
  • jd_in_njjd_in_nj Member Posts: 1
    I'd like to hear anyone's tips or experience on financing when I am potentially upside-down. Here's my situation:

    Last summer I financed the purchase of a certified pre-owned '02 Volvo S60 with CapitalOne Auto. Although I'm managing the payments just fine and I love the car, my wife and I recently had a child and because we travel frequently, we're very interested in moving into a mini-van (hopefully '04 Quest or pre-owned Oddesey). We still owe about $17,000 on the Volvo and depending on trade-in I'm guessing we could end up with negative equity. Does anyone have any tips or experience from similar situations? Will dealers even want to deal with me in this situation? I often hear adds to 'take over your payments' but they seem to often be directed at people who can't afford their current payments. This is certainly not my case - my wife and I both have excellent credit scores and we're just looking to upgrade our vehicle to fit our new family. Help!
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Stick it out a while. I think a minivan for one child (especially rolling negative equity to get it) is overkill. I've got two kids and our sedan (also a Volvo, coincidentally) does just fine, and we travel from Iowa to Massachusetts at least once, sometimes twice a year.
    I'd at least give the sedan a shot on a long trip before digging a hole, financially speaking. Just my .02 from someone who's rolled negative equity in the past, and learned to regret it.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Sure we've got tips... #1 cough up the difference in dollar bills along with the tax for the new one, and godspeed. #2 do nothing and stick it out until you're right-side up. #3 do careful math before buying a used odyssey... they're sky-high, and you might be better off with a new one. The 24mo lease for $260/mo comes to mind...
    -Mathias
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I used to think a sedan had more than enough room for two people and a new baby but once we actually had the new baby we went and bought an Odyssey. The Accord seemed to have plenty of room but once we put a rear-facing car seat, a diaper bag, a stroller, and groceries in the car we quickly realized that a long trip might not be comfortable in the Accord. We did realize that once he gets older and we can flip the car seat around and we won't need the stroller as much the Accord would be just fine. So we leased the Ody for 2 years. $At 259 per month it was almost cheaper to lease the Ody than to pay the negative equity in the Accord. And at the end of the two years we will still have the Accord.

    Depending on what your negative equity is and if you can afford the $259 per month maybe it would make more sense for you to lease the Odyssey than to trade the Volvo.
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Well, that's the advantage of driving a big ol' box (old body style Volvo,) I guess. We've got no problems getting all the accoutrements for the kids (ages 3 1/2 and six months) packed in for a long trip. We've never even contemplated a minivan. Maybe I'm just good at packing. :-)
  • lukeslukes Member Posts: 5
    My fiance and I are trying to get our financial cards in order and she has a 2001 Volvo S40 with 70k miles on it and 12k worth of debt amortized over 39 more months at 8.9% interest, equaling about $350.00/month. I have no car payments because I paid off my car last year. Should we refinance and keep her car OR sell her car and start fresh with a new car financed over 48 months but with much less mileage?
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Forget what the payments are. Figure out what it's worth to trade or sell on the street -- depending on what you'd do with it.
    Then figure out what car you'd buy instead and what it would cost, including tax and plates.

    Now you can make a decision: Would you rather have the Volvo for $X, or would you prefer to buy the other car for $Y?

    Educated guess: She's upside down on the Volvo by a few grand; the S40 is generally unloved and unlovely.

    Good luck,
    -Mathias Steiner
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    have cash available to cover the negative equity.

    aside from improving payments, you also lower the interest rate buy borrowing less than the retail value of the car you buy. as soon as you borrow 100%+, you go up in interest.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    if the 646 or the 624 are through experian, you can get good rates at nissan. otherwise, wait for 660+
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    also, rear-facing seats only last a few months before you turn them around...dont go into 5-6 years worth of debt to make a few months more convenient.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    That's why I suggested keeping the Volvo and just leasing an Ody for 2 years. The Ody will only require oil changes during that period and can be used when the whole family is together and they still won't lose money on the Volvo and at the end of 2 years the decision can be made whether to buy the Ody, keep the Volvo and turn the Ody in, or get rid of both and start over.

    lancer: I should note that my hubby is 6'6 therefore he seriously limits rear seat room in which ever seat he is in. With the car seat behind the passenger seat the passenger couldn't recline their seats on long trips. So we moved the car seat to behind the driver's seat but still realized that if we had another passenger in the car there would be no room for the passengers to relax. We have a 13 hour trip planned to Ohio in August with my mother-in-law ... with the extra room and the DVD player headphones to block her out the van will more than justify it's purchase during that trip :)
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Ah. Good point. I'm 5'10" and Mrs. Lance is 5'4". We normally don't have legroom issues with back seat passengers. :-)
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I'm afraid that as my 10 week old son grows my problem is only going to grow as well. He is 24 1/2 inches long at 10 weeks which puts him in the top 10%.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I'm searching for vehicles to replace my current car that ends its lease in Jan '05. I'm tired of leasing and I want to own. What do you know about BMW Select program?

    They describe it as paying a low amount per month and then having a balloon payment. But you own the car instead of lease it.

    I'm planning on putting down $10k (which of course I wouldn't do if I were leasing) and keeping it 2-3 years. I was thinking though of using their 60 month payment plan.

    Is it like a lease in that you must keep the vehicle for as long as you are terming it for? Can I sell the vehicle any time I want to and just pay off the rest?

    I'm confused!
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    "They describe it as paying a low amount per month and then having a balloon payment. But you own the car instead of lease it."

    this is such a misnomer...

    if you have a lien on the car, then it doesnt matter how you pay for it...the bank owns it either way.

    the only difference in leasing vs. buying is that you have mid-term options on the lease, and you can get out without a loss.

    hypothetically, what happens if you cant pay the balance? then you default on the loan. if you cant pay it off at the end of the lease, then you just drop the car without risk.

    i wouldnt finance a car in any way, shape, or form. the balloon payment thing is like a crucifix to a vampire to me.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Actually that is not true at all.

    There is a difference between owning something and having a lien on something.

    I own my home and several rental homes. I have a mortgage on three of those homes. The banks have a lien on the homes, which means if I don't pay the payments then have the right to foreclose and get back the money owed to them. The same is true of a loan on a vehicle.

    I also have two liens on properties that I have sold and am financing for them. I don't own the home, I just have a monetary claim to it.

    Leasing is not owning. The leasing company owns the car and rents it to the lesee.

    The difference I am concerned about is that during a lease you are not free to sell the car. I'm wondering if that is true with the BMW Select.

    Don't understand what you mean "I wouldn't finance a car..." Whether you are getting a loan, leasing or paying cash, you are "financing" anything that you purchase. YOU are the owner and the financer is whoever comes up with the money to purchase it.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    "The difference I am concerned about is that during a lease you are not free to sell the car."

    this is plain wrong...like i said, when you are in a lease, you have the same rights of ownership as if you used traditional financing.
  • mimiwmimiw Member Posts: 1
    After reading peoples concerns and some excellent replies, I am totally amazed how clueless the public is on the right thing to do. I have done financing for the car business for many, many years (and sold cars in between) and people do the stupidest deals. Or they are in a situation that only a lot of cash can get them out of. It's sad. But the bottom line is that the auto business changes every month. Book values change, too. That's the reason and no one can predict it
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    WRONG. In a lease, the leasing company owns the vehicle. Any sale has to be approved by the leasing company and is essntially between the leasing company and the buyer.

    A lessee is a long term rental. It's no different than renting a car from Avis. You DON'T have the same rights as an owner.

    Maybe someone who doesn't believe in financing vehicles should stick to what he knows.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Very true. I cringe when I hear what stupid things people do when leasing. I never go into a dealership without my financing/leasing terms 100% complete. That is the only way one knows exactly what the [final] terms are going to be.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    In a recent post bowke28 stated "this is plain wrong...like i said, when you are in a lease, you have the same rights of ownership as if you used traditional financing." This is absolutely not the case. As mfullmer said, when one leases, the bank that they are leasing through owns the vehicle. I am actually a big fan of leasing and usually lease one of my vehicles and finance or pay cash for the other, but one has to understand that when they lease they definitely do not have the same rights of ownership as someone who actually owns their vehicle. For example, if your vehicle has a number of dents and scratches if you own it you are free to leave it that way if you choose, but if you are leasing, you MUST fix them or you will be assessed a penalty for excess wear and tear at the end of your term. Also, if you own a vehicle you can sell it whenever you want, but if you are leasing you must receive permission from the bank that you are leasing through to sell your vehicle and you may have to pay them a penalty for early lease termination. Leasing definitely has its advantages, but it has its limitations as well.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers Message Board
  • klpentklpent Member Posts: 1
    What is GMAC required to do if I wish to keep the vehicle and not increase my payments?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Bowke...did you really say that? I must have skimmed over that. I'm surprised that you are in the business and are confused over this.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi klpent. GMAC's SmartBuy program is what is known as a balloon note. This program provides a low monthly payment on vehicles, with the option to purchase the vehicle that you have the contract on at the end of its SmartBuy term for a predetermined price. If you opt to buy your car or truck, GMAC is not obligated to maintain your payment at the same level that it was when you had the SmartBuy contract. You must come up with the money to pay off your vehicle on your own. You can do so by paying cash out of your bank account, arranging a loan to pay off the balance of what you owe on your own, or possibly by refinancing the remaining portion of money that you owe through GMAC. The price that you have to pay for the vehicle that you want, your interest rate, and how long you finance it for will ultimately determine what your monthly payment is like.

    Car_man
    Host
    Smart Shoppers Message Board
  • stubborn1stubborn1 Member Posts: 85
    Hi,

    I heard a radio ad this morning that got me thinking. The last part of the "fast talk" at the end of the add said, "Down payment MAY be required."

    Is it just me, or isn't a down payment expected at the time of purchase. How many people come into a dealership expecting to put zero down when buying a vehicle?
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Ok, I hate to make generalized assumptions but I do know you are in the car business (or you say you are). So, are you perpetuating the stereotype?

    In post 761 you state "i have a 605 and was lucky to get 8.49 on a $13k focus..." then you post in 788 "i wouldnt finance a car in any way, shape, or form."

    Which is true? Or is any of it?
  • janzjanz Member Posts: 129
    My guess is a lot more than you would think. This is one way people get upside down.

    When we leased we were told that we could sell the car at anytime. Perhaps different lease contracts have different clauses. (It was a lease through the dealer, not a lease co.)
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    car_man, i really like the service you give on the leasing board, but none of you are thinking along the same lines as i am.

    1. " but one has to understand that when they lease they definitely do not have the same rights of ownership as someone who actually owns their vehicle."

    i didnt say the same rights as one who OWNS, i said the same rights as one who FINANCES. while a person is in the middle of a finance contract, the bank owns it as well, right? a leasing company could care less if you sell it. all you have to do is find your current buy-out, and provide that amount plus sales tax, and the car is no longer the bank's. it takes no more "special permission" than if you paid off an installment loan early. if you are selling it to a 3rd party, it is often easier to do the transaction with a dealer, but it is not necessary if you know what you are doing.

    2. "if you are leasing, you MUST fix them or you will be assessed a penalty for excess wear and tear at the end of your term."

    true, but not if you dont turn the car back in. if you buy it or sell it, then the leasing company has no say in the damage/excess mileage.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    actually, both are.

    ford denotes their money factors similar to interest rates. for instance, the 2005 focus has an incentive rate of 2.9% here, and has a red carpet lease money factor of 5.5 for 36 months. mine is 8.49 for 36 months.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I think it's your mind-set that is wrong.

    Having a lien or an interest in an object does not mean the same as owning it. The bank DOES NOT own any vehicle that it finances. It's owns the LIEN, not the vehicle.

    Now yes, you might have the mind set that anytime an object has a lien against it then it is not owned, but that is legally and theoretically wrong.

    Owning comes with certain rights. Being a lienholder comes with certain rights. They are NOT the same rights.

    An owner is responsible for, and has liability for anything related to the object. The lienholder does not.

    An owner can do (lawfully) anything he wants with the object, including sell it. The lienholder can not. (The lienholder can not do anything with a vehicle, including sell it. In order for the lienholder to do anything with it, they must become the legal owner of the vehicle, through a legal forfeiture process that removes the owner (buyer) from it.)
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    No, both are not. You also stated that leasing is the same as financing.
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    "An owner can do (lawfully) anything he wants with the object, including sell it. The lienholder can not. (The lienholder can not do anything with a vehicle, including sell it."

    nor can they unilaterally sell a car out from a lessee. here, there is no difference TO THE DRIVER of the car.

    there may be legal differences, but the right of the driver or possessor to sell the car is equal in both instances. as long as the lienholder/titleholder is compansated PER THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT, then there is no other obligation of the driver or possessor to the lienholder/titleholder.

    because of consumer activism, lease contracts have changed to allow termination at any time if the titleholder (leasing company) is compensated for the full balance of the note.

    10-15 years ago, this was not the case, granted, but it is common language in 99% of lease contracts today.

    regarding my ford money factor, it is denoted on my RED CARPET LEASE contract as "money factor: 8.49"

    this is how ford credit titling trust has denoted money factors for almost 15 years. please dont argue about something i do for a living.

    also, i never said leasing was the same as financing...please refer me to the post where i did.
  • leeandginaleeandgina Member Posts: 38
    read post 799 again. He said you posted about getting 8.49% interest on a loan for a focus and then a few posts later you said you would never finance a car...
  • bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    i never said it was interest, nor did i have a '%' after the number. ford credit uses higher money factors for shaky credit just like they do with loan rates. they also denote their money factors WITH WHOLE DIGITS like interest rates, instead of in this format: 0.00120.

    ford: 8.49
    everyone else: 0.00353

    these numbers, when used to determine lease payments, are roughly the same. go to a ford dealer and look at the rate sheets...you will see what i am talking about.
  • armenin2001armenin2001 Member Posts: 2
    Hello people,

    I've found about these forums, yesterday. I've read all the posts from Jan 2004 , up until yesterdays. I have a question, and i think you guys might be the best crowd for this :)

    I'm 25, married, have a 2 week girl :) and I have a Honda Accord 97 Lx 4 Door. Bought the car for $13.480, still owe $6100 for it. Upon some checking, found out that trade value is somewhere about $5,212, and retail is $6,358. So yes, I'm upside down unfortunately.

    Here are my questions to you:

    1. Would it be wise to make any moves right now, and purchase a new(er) car right now?
    2. Should i give this car into trade-in or sell it to a private party?
    3. What are the common APR's nowadays, i seen 0% on new and 1.9 and 2.9 on select pre-owned models. (Ex: Nissan)
    4. Since i assume you guys know lots about cars, then: Is it worth buying an SUV? (move to SUV is primarily because of my daughter.. family car..)
    5. If you were in my position what would you do?

    I thank all of the forum posters in advance,

    -Mikhail
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Congratulations on the birth of your little one. As the parent of an 11 week old boy I understand the desire to buy a newer car.

    Since trade value is pretty close to payoff you should try to sell the Accord to a private owner. As long as the miles are decent and it is in good condition you should be able to get close to your payoff. During the time it takes your Accord to sell go out and test drive some of everything you think you are interested in to narrow it down. Once you have decided on a car go to your bank or credit union to get pre-approval so you don't have to play dealer games when it comes finance time. If they beat your pre-approved rate then that's great but if they don't at least you know the maximum interest rate you will be paying. Most manufacturers have some type of special financing right now .. go to the incentives and rebate section of Edmunds to see a listing for all manufacturers.

    As for the SUV .. a van or SUV will give you the most room at the sacrifice of MPG. Again, drive some of everything and decide what works best for you. It's a great idea to take the car seat, stroller, and diaper bag along to see how they affects interior room as well.
  • armenin2001armenin2001 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you for kind words! I appreciate it, and in return I would like to congratulate you on your little boy :)

    The trade value I've gotten from this website, i *hope* represents the actual trade-in value in the dealerships in my area (Seattle). The mileage on the car is 104.400. I was thinking that selling it retail/private is better option, but i have fears that nobody will buy it, because there are a few scratches on it (gotta get those spots repainted), and i took off the tint on the car off myself (and did a bad job too), so the windows are not in the best shape they could be (2nd invisible layer of film is still present on the windows, lol i know i know..)plus it has over 100k miles, so I'm kinda skeptical that it'll get bought for 6k. But miracles happen :) Especially with Accords, or so i hear.

    I have couple of cars in mind, but like you said, at the expense of MPG I'm gaining comfort/luxury/space. The problem is that this new car will have to be my *primary* car as well (since I'm getting rid of this one), so i have to drive it everyday, 15-20 miles each way. So the question of MPG is an important one for me. So i am stuck b/w choosing an middle size SUV, large size SUV, or a regular car/sedan.

    Thanks for the hint on the rebate section, I'll check that out (even though i still have not made up my mind on whether i want new or used)

    Thanks!
    -Mikhail
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .......... I may not be a great fan of leasing and agree with Car_man on the "advantage" of it, I'm a firm beleiver of not paying for the same real estate twice (probably because I see 20/30 folks a month trying to get out of their 39/48 month leases with 30k in 24 months, and their buried up to their eyeballs) ..

                   But that being said, you need to read his and Mfullmer posts again because their right on the money .. I realize you "work" in the business, but thats a big difference from "understanding" it .. it may be a good idea to bow out gracefully, because your starting down a slippery slope of opinion and/or misinformation instead of lease facts ................... :)

                             Terry.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I never thought I'd be seriously considering a BMW but I just can't think of many other convertibles I would want.

    The main thing I'm concerned about is if the BMW Select program is a "lease-like" deal, meaning, do I have to stay in the car or can I keep it as long as I want to?
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Wow, you really don't get this at all, do you?

    "but the right of the driver or possessor to sell the car is equal in both instances"

    Let me put this in the simplest way I know how. The only person who has the "right" to sell a car is the owner of the car. That sentence doesn't even make the tiniest bit of sense.

    Are you really telling me that you believe if you are borrowing someone elses car, and for arguments sake, lets say you are paying their car payment for them while you are driving it, you have the "right" to sell their car? Even if they gave you permission to sell the car, you wouldn't have the "right" to sell the car. Only the legal owner has the "right" to sell the car.

    I am truly discouraged.
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