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Comments
It sounds like the pieces are all (somewhat) there.
I haven't seen any of these in my travels. Is there a web site with this?
I wonder what kind of mileage a Forester would get with maybe 235/75R15 MT tires.
What is the towing capacity of a Forester again?
Oh, you meant a body lift? 1" might be OK, otherwise, too much flex, and broken mounts or broken body sheetmetal usually.
"1&1/2 inch suspension (2 inches for the Forester in North America) can be achieved with Scorpion replacement springs. The suspension lift will reduce down travel, affecting the ride slightly."
Less downtravel is not good. I wonder how much articulation you'd get.
"Scorpion has manufactured, sold & installed lift kits for Subaru..."
Was this the company you were referring to?
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I have a pretty good feeling as to what your needs are and Forester isn't it.
-mike
Any more like this?
I have 225/60R16 tires and they're a little taller than stock. To go bigger you need spacers, but then on-road handling will suffer.
Here you go:
http://www.isrperformance.com/picturegallery1.html
-juice
That's my friend's kid, not mine. All the kids LOVED going for rides, though.
And here's a Rally Cross racer like I was talking about:
I'll have to upload my pics crossing water.
-juice
Yeah, but springs don't gain you ground clearance, they only allow room for larger tires, which in turn give you added clearance. So, that said, what are the 7.5, 9.5, and 11.5 numbers a measure of again?
"I have 225/60R16 tires and they're a little taller than stock. To go bigger you need spacers, but then on-road handling will suffer."
What is stock size? I was hoping to see more like 235/75R15 as an entry size for anything halfway serious for clearance. Of course road handling would "suffer", but then again, it is an SUV, with "S" being Sport, and "U" being Utility; there is always a compromise.
I liked the maroon one on top right of the page. Not bad.
Not sure if it would meet all my needs right now, though.
If you have a live axle, then yeah, springs would lift the body, but the pumpkin would stay low unless you got bigger tires.
Stock tires size is 215/60R16 now. I have 225/60R16, only a tad taller. I'd like to try 235/60R16, but I think it would rub the front mud guards. I could remove them if I had to, I guess.
Tow capacity is 2400 lbs with a manual (2000 for auto), though over 1000 pounds you should have trailer brakes.
-juice
That might give some height without going too wide.
-juice
-mike
-juice
If you get wheels spacers, you stress the CV joints and the bearings/hubs.
I think you can get a 2" lift and slightly bigger tires and stay out of trouble, but beyond that you may as well get a truck and build it from scratch. They say the best off road vehicles are built, not bought.
-juixw
-mike
Patti, who works for Subaru of America (SOA), aka Subaru Team, is a regular member of the Edmunds Subaru forums, and is very interested in what we have to say. In fact, a year or so before the new Forester debuted, she asked us what we would like to see in the new Forester. We later found out eight items we requested (I'm not sure what they are, but I have pretty good idea), made it into production.
SOA listens to us, here at Edmunds.
Bob
(If only it were true....If only all car manufacturers read these internet boards and listened.)
Automakers monitoring websites.....
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
But Subaru participates and listens. They had their top 2 mechanics host one of our chats. Plus their Gorge Game team, and I just thought of another - their Olympic XC Ski Team joined us. The Rally drivers, too. All right here on Edmunds.com.
-juice
I must say that I was impressed with Subaru for offering skid plates with a new vehicle and I'm impressed with some of the pictures. I like the Forester but I don't think I would take it places I take my Jeep. I like the idea of using it for rally cross. A Question for you owners: How tough would you rate the vehicle? Close to a pick-up? close to a car? How much do you think it could take before it was damaged?
some of the eight items are Forester exclusives: Hill Holder clutch, green cruise control dash light, lit power window switches, auto open/close moonroof, all 16" tires (foreign markets still use 15" steel rims, we don't), etc.
Those were items we requested for the Forester, and are not found on any other US-spec Subie.
Bob
But a Subie can be made reasonably capable for not a lot of money. Get springs, tires, and skid plates for about $1,000. Beyond that, it makes less sense. You buy a Forester because it's refined a car-like.
How tough is it? What do you mean by tough? It holds up very well to crash tests, and has the toughest bumpers among all small SUVs. But the factory setup is not for mud flogging, it's for smooth commuting and fun drives on pavement.
I wanted lower profile rubber for better handling. Even though I do wander off pavement on occasion, I'm still on pavement 99% of the time.
Bob: good point, I didn't even think about that.
-juice
SUV tough.
"the factory setup is not for mud flogging,"
On most SUV's, the factory setup isn't made for that.
"...it's for smooth commuting and fun drives on pavement."
Like a Miata? This is the SUV section, I thought.
anon - I'm south of the Sierras in a set of mountains with no real name - between Bakersfield and LA (often called Kern County mountains). If you hear references to a mountain pass called the Grapevine - I live above it. They are about the only mountains you can really live in (as opposed to the foothills) and still commute to LA daily (if you think that 75 miles one way is commuting distance).
jason - that is quite a photo! I wouldn't have been able to sleep that night, teething kid or not. I've thought about stashing a quick grab emergency kit, but never get around to putting it together. On the other hand, I have an extra set of clothes at work (I have gotten to the gym and discovered I forgot to bring work clothes), and my gym bag is always packed. Those extra clothes came in handy today!
Oh, more reasons not to live in California -
power outages, freeways that pretend to be parking lots, driveby shootings
I looked at an axiom on a lot when they first came out. I thought they looked too much like a minivan for an SUV without their advantages. I never actually drove one - drove a Rodeo instead.
I'm pretty sure that the only reason we were able to get 25+ mpg in our V6 Escape was because of the tire pressure. I added an extra 4-5 psi to each tire (above the recommended 30) to compensate for some extra weight in the back during the 500+ mile trip last week. The ride was a little bumpier, but not unbearable by any stretch of the imagination.
During our previous trip (300+ miles) in July we were only able to get about 23.8 mpg with the tires inflated to their recommended 30 psi.
I know a lot of people have been complaining about the Escape/Tribute fuel milage. I wonder how often they check their tire pressure. I for one am completely satisfied. Besides, if I wanted to get excellent fuel milage on a long journey I'd simply take our Civic and pack lightly.
Wow, in my opinion you are still getting really good mileage with your V6 Escape. It is rather impressive that the V6 engine is getting mileage numbers near the 4 cylinder CRV.
"The Element should be frugal with fuel compared to a thirsty SUV, as mileage ratings range from 20 mpg city/23 mpg highway for an AWD with manual to 21 city/25 highway for a FWD with the automatic."
20/23 is frugal? Yet EVERY single review I have ever read on the Liberty (Edmunds, Carpoint, C&D, Consumer Reports etc) lists the Libs 16/21 gas mileage as terrible. Heck, half the posts in this forum are asking about gas mileage - complaining about it, etc.
Working the math a bit - the Element should see about 22 mpg in combined driving. The Lib owners here report about 19 mpg combined. Driving 100,000 miles and assuming $2 a gal for gas (I know way high) you are looking at a cost to own difference of $1436. Figure that 100,000 miles is 5 years of driving - that works out to an extra $287 a year in gas to own a real 4x4, with a 6 cyl engine, legitimate towing capacity etc. etc.
Mileage figures for the Ford Escape, Subaru Forester etc come out in the same neighborhood.
My point is simply - work the numbers and remember that the reviewers who want to harp on the Libs poor gas mileage are just assuming that because the truck is a little stylish (I won't say cute) it should get 30 mph.
Before you scratch the Liberty off your "buy list" work the numbers and see if the impact is really that much.
I found it wasn't
I had to calculate it a few times before I believed it myself.
The CR-V's engine isn't that much smaller than the Escape's V6 though. If you look at it that way, it doesn't seem all that unusual.
I also used the cruise control most of the time on both trips which usually helps the mileage and I do not floor the gas pedal all that much. I'm still a little afraid of driving an SUV after driving sporty little cars for several years before.
The other Subarus will give me the same type of driving I have with the Taco, just a far more comfortable vehicle. The MT V6 Liberty is nice, but gets into the same gas mileage range as my Wrangler (what do I really gain by going that route?). I have seriously considered going down to one vehicle, which would be a new Wrangler (I love mine and am not willing to give it up). But that WRX is so much fun to drive!
Bob
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/paris2002/top.html
Personally, I don't think a stiff ride, high liftover, poor mileage, etc. are pre-requisites for an SUV. I've seen some lifted so high that a woman with a skirt can't even climb in. That defeats the purpose.
To me, the Sport part of the name means good handling, fun-to-drive. Utility means decent payload and cargo space, plus a sturdy roof rack, and the ability to tow. I've done all those things, plus hit the beach, some light trails, etc.
But if you want to go rock-hopping and mud-slinging, feel free. Just be ready to pay the price the other 99% of the time. I tried a Grand Vitara at Edmunds Live, and it's actually tuned a bit sporting, even fun. But we hit the bumpy section that tests the ride - and it did the back axle boogey. Hence it fails my test.
-juice
I thought that was the purpose! ;-)
Really, I was hoping that those modifications would not hurt the Subaru as much as you seem to imply they might. In that case, maybe it is time to step up a notch.
What is "Edmunds Live"?
I know other 4 cylinders aren't any better, but some of the small 6 cyl utes are. I don't understand why the HDC-6 won't do 3000 lbs anyway, but maybe it's the weight of the vehicle.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
If you are only going to have one vehicle, I'd say go for the Liberty -- not a sports sedan, but it retains much of the Wrangler's flexibility without the drawbacks of an unecessarily large SUV. But, you already know that. Kind of a nice compromise for you and your sig-o -- he'll appreciate it's amenities, and you'll still have true 4x4 capability (even though you might not want to go boulder scraping with it right away). Are you still analyzing the dog-friendly aspect, or is that where the Escape and Outback fit in?
The Outback is a nice vehicle, economical (runs regular vs premium in the WRX) and is larger than the WRX (dog would like that) and quieter than the Forester. Wouldn't be as much fun but would be much better than the Taco. Another nice compliment to the Wrangler.
The Wrangler is stock - I've not felt a big need to modify it. Most of the places I've taken it just need careful chosing of lines to get where I want to go (desert and mountains). I'm into hiking and going to out of the way places, rather than technical 4x4 driving. I wouldn't mind having a bit more clearance (my gas tank skid plate is dented from bottoming out crossing a dry stream bed), but haven't really felt a need for lockers. On the other hand, I might try trails I avoid now if I had them (and a winch).
The MT Liberty could give me pretty much everything I need, which is why I'm still looking at it. However, the gas mileage of the H4 in the subies is a definite attraction. If it looks like I have to go down to one vehicle I'll have a hard time deciding between it and the Wrangler. I really do like the looks, fun, and versatility of the Wrangler over the Liberty, but that's just me.
-mike