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Jeep Grand Cherokee

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Comments

  • jsandorjsandor Member Posts: 1
    Oman9, I too am having a problem with my door locks buzzing. Did you ever get any resolve to your issue? Can you share it with me?
  • naatz1naatz1 Member Posts: 188
    I just swapped the battery on my 01 Laredo (yes, I know it's different design than a 97) since Walmart has the highest rated batteries but wanted me to wait an hour or two. I thought it would take 15 minutes DIY but as most things go do a 2X estimate on that so more like 30 mins. The terminal wires did come right off but on the 01 there is a hold down on the engine side of the battery, ie looking at it from the front of the on the right. You have to crank and on that bolt with an extension on a ratchet since there is maybe 80 degrees of movement by the alternator and A/C hoses.

    Actually this 01 Laredo I6 is a very easy engine to work on (serpentine belt, spark plugs, oil/filter chg etc). So try and take a few whacks at the corroded stuff with a screw driver/hammer, putty knife or chisel; perhaps you waited too long to swap batteries if you have that laying around the bottom of the battery itself and it's best to clean it all up well. Good luck!
  • frostyyfrostyy Member Posts: 52
    Hey Mykem,

    Congrats on your new Overland....I originally bought a 06 Jeep Liberty Diesel (after having 3 Grand Cherokees--'00, '02 Overland and '04 Overland) but I couldn't get used to the differences in the vehicle so I traded in my Diesel and I recently ordered a 06 Overland...it's not in yet as it's only been 3 weeks)....glad to hear you are liking yours....can't wait for mine...I should have bought another GC in the first place....as I have really enjoyed them...no major problems on any but I did trade them in with little mileage...
    ....I haven't seen a 06 Overland in person yet but the interior looks sweeet! I especially like the real wood interior (and on the steering wheel)....let me know if any issues come up with yours as you get more mileage on it..

    -Frost
  • jeeprookiejeeprookie Member Posts: 1
    I am trying to change my temperature control from a regular 97 to a 98 limited control and am wondering if there are any compatibility issues with such a change.

    Thanks for the input.
  • richardsturgesrichardsturges Member Posts: 1
    I purchased my '05 Grand Cherokee in September of this year, and I have had nothing but problems since. It has been to the dealer on numerous occasions for the same problems, and they have been unable to successfully repair it. The Dealer has had the Jeep for almost the same amount of time that I have since my purchase. I have had stalling problems, issues with the engine revving up for no reason, along with numerous others. Currently they can't seem to get the check engine light to go off. I am in litigation with Chrysler Motors Corporation with regard to the "Lemon Law". I will tell you that I have found that the recall problem with the transmission tube has turned out to require several fixes. My dealer Hoover Chrysler-Jeep in Savannah, Georgia has been dealing with Chrysler with regard to the most current fixes issued by Chrysler. You might want to have your Dealer contact Hoover Chrysler-Jeep in Savannah.
  • gigahzgigahz Member Posts: 4
    Why is it listed on the jeep website that the liberty weighs more than the grand cherokee? There is also a 1000 pound difference between the commander and the grand cherokee. Edmunds also lists the grand cherokee at 4094 pounds.
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    I think that's for 2WD V6 GC. I believe it varies from around 4200 to 4900 pounds for 4WD models, depending on engine and equipment levels.
  • howlehhowleh Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee and it has been staalling as well. The dealer says that there is nothing that they can do and that it mey be the air intake calibration motor which senses how much air to allow into the engine at low RPM. Well, they won't fix it until it breaks. So, my wife also wants to give up the car. I'm going to write to Jeep and I'm going to stir the waters if the problem isn't fixed. Even if I wanted to get rid of it, how much is a car worth if it stalls all the time?
    if you come up with a fix, let me know and I'll do the same for you.
  • howlehhowleh Member Posts: 2
    Jim,
    I too have had stalling problems with my '05 Jeep and idle problems as well. I have taken it to the dealer 4 times now and it has continued to have the problem. I don't know if the lemon law applies in this case but I'm going to look into it this weekend as well. What is a car worth if it idles rough, stalls and is potentially dangerous because of it? My 2001 Hyundai runs better!
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    Which engines do you have on your GCs and how many miles do you have on them? I got an '05 with couple of hundred miles on it. I am a bit worried.
  • clarkkentclarkkent Member Posts: 154
    You sure that isn't the security system that keeps the car from running over 2 or 3 seconds after start up, if the wrong keep (or something) isn't done right?

    A few times I have had this happen, because I opened the door from the inside after locking it from the outside. etc. I always got it figured out and it was always the security system that outfoxed me. (was usually my fault because I don't really know how all the stuff on the system works.

    Good luck

    CK
  • tatiactatiac Member Posts: 1
    I have a 97 JGC limited gold. The alternator just went. I have no idea how to fix it. If someone could explain the steps, I would sure appreciate it. I have only today to fix it. I need my vehicle to take daughter to cheerleading and the usual mother taxi driver things. I can follow instructions, if you are willing to lay it out in steps for me. Thank you for any help.
    Tatia
  • rsaltus1rsaltus1 Member Posts: 43
    In the years I've owned my 1993 GGC Laredo (I bought it in 1997) the difference in experiences I've heard about is amazing. Some people have 200,000 miles with hardly any trouble, others have continuing problems from Day 1. You never know. I'm finally selling mine, with 110,000 miles, as my financial advisor says the upkeep is bleeding me dry, not to mention the gas. Since 1997 I've had to replace the fuel pump (expensive!), PCM module, wiper motor, water pump, ignition switch, A/C evaporator, many suspension parts (tie rods, ball joints, control arms) door lock, fuel filler door latch, liftgate pistons, motor mounts, etc. etc. It's an expensive habit - but, like many other owners, when it's running well I love it!
    rs in boston
  • hapa2hapa2 Member Posts: 1
    Check engine light code is P0720, listed as a speed sensor failure. Any idea what to look for? I have a 98 JGC with 30000 miles, hardly any problems.
  • miketturfmiketturf Member Posts: 1
    This topic sounds way to familiar to me. In the end of October my wife and I bought a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The first time the Jeep's check engine light came on in the middle of an intersection and the car cut off. So we had it towed in. They just blew us off by saying it was a bad sensor. Hmmmm.... The next day same intersection the same thing happens. So we took it back to the dealer. They kept it for 2 days and the Service manager said he would put his wife in the car and that they couldn't find anything wrong. Well we get it to Tennessee for the Holidays and the next day SAME THING, plus a leaking rear differential seal. SO BACK TO THE SHOP WE GO. They tell us that they don't know what it is. So we drive it some more and then we are loaded up for our 500 mile trip back to Savannah, GA and UH OH it happens again. So Here I sit with a nice car payment for a car that is in the shop 500 miles away. Well now it is Jan 2 and it has been in the shop 4 times at 3 different Chrysler dealerships. SO to my surprise when I talk to the service manager and he say's "he doesn't know what to do" and "has never had this happen before." It get's better. So I google 2005 Jeep grand cherokee problems and check engine light and this forum shows up. Then I see the same dealer I used HOOVER JEEP CHRYSLER and a very similar situation. Yet they tell me "he doesn't know what to do" and "has never had this happen before." THAT IS B.S. and I am pretty pissed. So if anyone has suggestions about how to handle a buy back or trade in I would really appreciate the feed back. Also if Richard Sturges reads this could you please reply since you have dealt with or dealing with HOOVER JEEP Chrysler in Savannah, GA. Thanks, Mike Thomas
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    said he would put his wife in the car

    That would be helpful only if she is a qualified mechanic - otherwise put one in there! :)

    tidester, host
  • swampdonkeyswampdonkey Member Posts: 1
    i just purchased a 05 jeep gc laredo with quadra-trac 1 4x4. i do alot of surf fishing on the carolina coast and outer-banks. i was wondering if i'll have any problems on the sand. any tips would be great. thanx.
  • slee0820slee0820 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2005 Grand Jeep Cherokee that has stalled 3 times while driving it. The car will be driving normally when all of a sudden I lose power breaks, steering, and no gas. Basically the power shuts off. The dealership is unable to determine the cause. I was wondering if your car was fixed and if so what was the problem?
  • robjeepgc05robjeepgc05 Member Posts: 1
    My 2005 Grand Cherokee Limited has now stalled at least 5 times on me too! This morning was the first time it happened while I was actually moving. The other times the car stalled while idling or at stop signs. Today I was making a left turn at a busy intersection and the engine stopped (along with power steering, brakes etc.) I'm a little concerned because I am supposed to go away for the weekend and drive up to Lake Tahoe which has highways that wind through the mountains. Has anyone had any luck from dealers for a solution to this problem? :lemon: ?
  • jeepmajor1jeepmajor1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a new 2005 with the 5.7 and drive highway 20 miles to work everyday and I get around 15 miles to the gallon. If I were driving all local get around 12 so I know what you are talking about. DOes it get any better? :confuse: image
  • jagnercjagnerc Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    I've had a 1992 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo since 1993 and never had problems with ignition/starting it until the past year. The first time I try to start it, it won't start at all. Then someone told me I have to wait until I see the "Check Engine" message on the Dashboard before fully starting the jeep. During warm weather, I have to wait about 3-5 minutes before I see the "Check Engine" and start it fine. But in winter, I could wait up to 15 mins before I get the "Check Engine" message and start the jeep. I've never had to do this before until now. Any ideas what could be causing this? Thanks in advance for any info.
  • garrison1garrison1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 96 jeep grand cherokee. has 150,000 miles on it. the yellow check engine light stays on. i understand that is an oxygen sensor bad. Well, I have driven the jeep 569 miles and then started to experience engine power loss like it was cutting out when I passed a car. It did it the next day and started to do this a lower speeds - like when i started up from a stop light. What do you think the problem is? If I wait for a day or two, it will not happen.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    about an SUV, I really like the looks (and power) of the JGC and Commander...and, I realize that this forum may be filled with the folks who have problems, but, boy, your problems seem to be pretty serious...stalling, cutting out, are all very unsafe, and scary when told that the dealer has no idea what to do about it...

    I asked my local Goodyear technician about SUVs ( JGC, Commander, Durango, Explorer, and the upcoming Santa Fe), and obviously, no comment on the Santa Fe, but his shop experience was that Explorer was a solid vehicle with few major mechanical problems...he said that the Jeeps had chronic transmission problems, requiring fluid changes every 15K miles, which almost nobody does that often...his reco was to avoid Jeeps (did not say the same thing about Durango), but placed Expy at top of the list...I do not know his opinion about Tahoe/Yukon, as I did not ask, I tend to want to avoid GM products...
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Your mechanic failed to mention that the Explorer has more drivetrain problems than the DC vehicles, particular their tranny's. I've never had tranny or engine problems with none of my 14 Jeeps, and have driven most over 200k miles. ANY car will have transmission problems if the preventive maintenance hasn't been performed.

    Some people have Jeeps at the top. Some Explorer's. Some have the GMT 360 SUV's. It's a mixed bag. They all have markedly more reliability thatn their predecessors.
  • edjeep05edjeep05 Member Posts: 1
    I have an 05 JGC with about 10k... It is a limited with the hemi and have never had it stall on me.. What size engine do you have in yours
  • transpowertranspower Member Posts: 213
    I found just one JGC Recall Notice:

    2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Recall ID from NHTSA: 05V396000
    Auto Recall Date: SEP 14, 2005

    Vehicle Component: POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION

    Estimated Vehicles Affected: 101925

    2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Defect Summary:
    ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.7L ENGINES AND NAG1 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, THE AIR CONDITIONER EVAPORATOR CONDENSATE WATER MAY ENTER THE TRANSMISSION AT THE FILL TUBE GROMMET SEAL. THIS CAN RESULT IN SHUDDER DURING TORQUE CONVERTER CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT.

    Defect Consequence:
    IT CAN LEAD TO INCREASED TRANSMISSION OPERATING TEMPERATURES, BOILING OF THE WATER, AND A SUBSEQUENT PURGING OF TRANSMISSION FLUID INTO THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT POTENTIALLY RESULTING IN AN UNDERHOOD FIRE.

    Remedy:
    DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE TRANSMISSION FOR LEAKAGE AT THE FILL TUBE GROMMET SEAL. IF NO LEAK IS DETECTED, A NEW FILL TUBE GROMMET SEAL AND WATER DEFLECTOR SHIELD WILL BE INSTALLED, AND PROPER ALIGNMENT OF THE FILL TUBE VERIFIED. IF THE PRESENCE OF A LEAK IS DETECTED, THE VEHICLE WILL BE EVALUATED FOR SHUDDER DURING TORQUE CONVERTER ENGAGEMENT. IF NO SHUDDER IS DETECTED, THE TRANSMISSION WILL BE TRIPLE FLUSHED, AND NEW FILL TUBE GROMMET SEAL AND WATER DEFLECTOR WILL BE INSTALLED AND PROPER ALIGNMENT OF THE FILL TUBE VERIFIED. IF SHUDDER IS DETECTED, THE TORQUE CONVERTER WILL BE REPLACED, A NEW FILL TUBE GROMMET SEAL AND WATER DEFLECTOR WILL BE INSTALLED, AND PROPER ALIGNMENT OF THE FILL TUBE VERIFIED. THE RECALL BEGAN ON OCTOBER 31, 2005. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.

    Notes: DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION, E13
    ---------
    So if you have the 3.7L engine, take your JGC in...now.
  • neensawneensaw Member Posts: 4
    Hi all,
    I'm looking very strongly into buying a jeep grand cherokee tsi '98 for my first car. I get my license in 56 days!! :shades: I know I probably get the award for the most naive post, but I was wondering if this was a good idea as a first car? is this a more unreliable year than others? Help! any comments would be GREATLY appreciated. Thnks!
  • jeeper96jeeper96 Member Posts: 12
    i have been looking all over the internet for a good catolog or magazine that actually has Grand Cherokees it.Or a catalog that i can order accesories and parts out of.I know that landrover and probably other vehicles have a monthly news paper that they send every month or so.i would be interested in that for my jeep.Does anyone have any info?
  • jeeper96jeeper96 Member Posts: 12
    Neensaw,
    I would definetly suggest a Grand Cherokee as a first car.My parents and i am sure yours would be very happy to have you in a safe larger vehicle.I had a Land rover for my first car and up to a few months ago i just couldn't afford the premium gas.I now have a 96 Grand Cherokee(15mpg).
    It is an awesome SUV.The expense for repairs is reasonable,its just plain fun to drive.The other thing is is that is really a safe vehicle and that is what you want for a first car.I couldn't tell you if that year is more or less unrealiable because i just reasently got my jeep and i don't know that much about them yet.i am however learning:) so yes keep researching on this site,read more about the problems and things that the 98s have so when or if you deside to buy one you will have more knowledge on it. Also the crash test rating for the 98 on safercar.gov is a 3 star which is pretty good.Well i wish you good luck!!!
  • neensawneensaw Member Posts: 4
    Thanks so much! thats a great help
  • oman9oman9 Member Posts: 97
    Just happened to pop back in here...wow, you replied to a 3 1/2 year old post!

    Guess what, we still have the Jeep and it still has the issue with the doors not always locking. After two, three, four attempts it works but it's not that big a deal, we're used to it and saved the 1,000 plus they wanted to charge to attempt a fix.

    Wish I had something better for you but that's where we left it...
  • jeeper96jeeper96 Member Posts: 12
    garrison,
    I truly don't know a lot about jeeps or cars.I also have a 96 jeep(179k) and mine is doing that too,my boyfriend is a mechanic and he said that the lose for power,might be something to do with the transmission but my 4X4 is all screwed up and out of wack so he said it also may be something in the transfer case.do you have 4X4? Does it work? i just wondered if that may have something to do with it.anyways he said for me not to be to worried about mine its not that bad yet but were going to take it to the tranny shop just to get it checked on.I don't know if this helps but it might:)-Jeeper96
  • 05rubisahara05rubisahara Member Posts: 25
    Once upon a time, there were many re-ocurring front brake problems on the Grand Cherokee around 2000-2001 models. Rotors and pads with quick demise. Anyone know if this is still a problem on 2005 & 2006 models?
  • jherbstjherbst Member Posts: 19
    I have the 5.7 in my '05 and I was having poor gas mileage and I finally found the problem -- my foot. If you can keep highway speeds between 65 and 70 -- maybe 72 or 73, the mds system has no problem dropping off. We recently drove to Indiana from Florida and used very little A/C. We did not reset the mileage computer for the trip and we averaged a little over 18 mpg. Likewise, in town and being careful -- slowly creep up to 45 to 47 mph and holding whenever possible -- I can get a smidge over 15 mpg per tank. I found that reasonable mileage is attainable. I know it sounds like a horrible existence but I have found that by being careful most of the time, I can enjoy the Hemi every now and then. Sort of like dieting . . . I would suggest playing with it -- getting to speeds and resetting the mileage computer. Soon you'll get a feel for what's achievable and what's not. Hope that helps.
  • jherbstjherbst Member Posts: 19
    What engine? I've the 5.7L and have no problems of this type whatsoever.
  • jeeper96jeeper96 Member Posts: 12
    Ok a reply to my own post:)
    I found a catolog called Quadratec Jeep Essentials they have catologs for cj,yj,tj,cherokees,grand cherokees which i am very happy for.You can get one for free or i think they all may be for free the web site is:www.quadratec.com and the toll free number is 1-800-745-2348 check it out you might like it!!
  • lschmidtlschmidt Member Posts: 8
    I too have a 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee and have had nothing but problems with the transmission since purchase. I had the recall work done a month or so ago and now this past weekend the transmission totally went leaving me stranded. Can you please advise me on what steps I need to take to proceed with the lemon law? I am on my 4th rental car since puchase of this vehicle in May of 05. I also have children and dont feel safe owning this vehicle again.

    Thank you.
  • knichol05knichol05 Member Posts: 7
    I live in NY and just went thru the whole Lemon Law arbitration process with my 2005 GC. Like so many posts, the transmisssion was the culprit. NYS Lemon law allows the dealer 4 tries to fix the same problem and the problem must significantly hinder the driveability of the vehicle. We purchsed the jeep April 05 and began feeling the problem wihtin 2000 miles. I actually brought the vehicle in 6 TIMES. The first 4 times were all the same, water in the transmission, drain, flush, refill, and seal the dipstick. On the 5th time the transmission completely failed with my wife and daughter in the vehicle on a busy street. I had AAA flatbed it in and the dealer did the same old fix. Three days later the jeep failed again and I immediately towed it to the dealer and applied for the Lemon Law. The documents are all online at http://www.oag.state.ny.us/consumer/cars/newcarlemon.html
    You need to submit all service records, purchase/lease info and any other supporting documentation (like my 2 AAA towing records). The jeep remained at the dealer for 16 days and they replaced the torque converter. I have it back now and it has not exibited any problems within the last month, but this is irrelevant because the law allows 4 chances and they are on the 6th chance. The NYS Attorney General reviews the file and determines whether the incident meets the Lemon Law criteria, ours did and our info was passed on the NYS Dispute resolution center. Right before I submitted all the paperwork, I did give the dealer the chance to make things right by buying out my lease and offering me a replacement but they refused. Once the info is sent to NYS Dispute Resolution, DaimlerChrysler lawyers get involved. The lawyer called me to offer a deal, a lousy 100k service contract. I said I LEASED the jeep and a service contract is worthless to me and I truly want to return this vehicle because it is UNSAFE. At that point the arbitration hearing is set. My wife and I showed up without representation based on recommendations by the Dispute resolution people. The DaimlerChrysler side showed up with 2 lawyers, 2 local dealership service managers, a DaimlerChrysler Engineer, and a court stenographer! Regardless, within 2 weeks of the hearing we were granted a full refund, which includes taxes, registration, license, PAYMENTS minus interest and any down payment. The arbitration is binding and they must comply within 30 days of the decision. So now we are waiting to hear from their lawyer on when we return the vehicle and get our money back. It has been an awful, time consuming ordeal. I did feel thedealership offered good service considering the circumstances. The thing is I realize that not all jeeps are lemons and frankly would still be in a jeep if anyone at anypoint offered to replace the one I had, but that never happened and DaimlerChrysler treated us like we did something wrong. Now we have such a horrible taste in our mouths that I will NEVER purchase another new vehicle from DaimlerChrysler.
  • lschmidtlschmidt Member Posts: 8
    Wow, That sounds all too familiar. I also purchased my JGC in Apr 05. Right now, the dealer has my jeep for the 4th time and the transmission is completely out of it and suppose to be being rebuilt. I printed all the lemon law forms and am going to submit immediately. I appreciate your input. Chrylser keeps telling me that I will benefit with this new rebuilt transmission. I dont feel very confident. I call Chrylser every day and haunt them just like I have been haunted since I purchased this LEMON!!
  • bljteachbljteach Member Posts: 1
    My 2002 Grand Cherokee was doing exactly the same thing. I soon realized that it only happened when the GC was parked on the street in front of my house. Moving the vehicle into my driveway quickly resolved the issue.

    I can only assume that parking the vehicle where the light sensors are exposed to oncoming traffic (high beam headlights and such) triggers the GC's headlight sensors, causing the headlights to turn on and off, which eventually drains the battery. All I know for certain is that the battery never runs down when the headlights are protected from strong light sources.
  • knichol05knichol05 Member Posts: 7
    To follow up, apparently the NYS lemon Law isn't so binding. I am now retaining a lawyer because I have been informed that Chrysler is filing a lawsuit. Disappointing, but not surprising. While we may have the means, I am not prepared to spend the tens of thousands of dollars it may require to fight this. This is beyond frustration and I am not sure how we will proceed. Since our financing is really not a 'lease' it is a simple fixed interest contract with a balloon payment at the end, I may decide just to return the vehicle and it will cost $275. Obviously DaimlerChrysler cares much more about the bottom line than customer satisfaction or loyalty. I'll post my updates.
  • jeepgjeepg Member Posts: 2
    Hi, hey I need some help here, were can I go to find out what anyone thinks the best price would be for a New Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 25K package. I am going to buy one and I was wondering what other people were paying for them. Can you help?
    Thanls
    JeegG
  • jeepgjeepg Member Posts: 2
    Hi everyone this is JeepG, I need some advice on a new 2006 Limited Grand Cherokee with the 25K package. What would be a good price on that were I can say I got a great deal. I have had so many quote, and the best quote I got was a 1000 under invoice. Is that good, or am I being ripped.

    Let me know before I get crushed
    Thanks
    Matt
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    While you're waiting for a reply here you may want to look at Jeep Cherokee (All): Prices Paid & Buying Experience and TMV new car prices, used car pricing, used car values at Edmunds.

    tidester, host
  • mikebitomikebito Member Posts: 1
    Just Curious - I have a 2005 JGC with traction control. There is the button to disable the traction control. Besides driving off-road or in snow. Is there any significant reason to keep the traction control on??? Also, if traction control is always on, will the be any damage to the vehicle over time???
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    No. Don't need to worry about it.
  • blanksterblankster Member Posts: 29
    Just noticed that the new Overlands coming in no longer have the platinum clad wheels. Chrome clad ala Limited is being substituted. Also the mileage on the 5.7 Hemi is back to 14/19 Vs 15/20 on earlier Grand Cherokees. What Gives? I see something about the platinum wheels being on hold so I am wondering are the ones out there have a problem or are they going to supply another type of wheel?
  • jkleyjkley Member Posts: 1
    Being a new Jeep owner of a used Grand Cherokee Limited, I am a bit challenged in my ability to describe a recent problem. but here goes... My 4wd (quad-track) '94 has a clanking noise coming from the rear that sounds like when you drill into wood, and hit a nail. It's a metal hitting metal tapping noise that is much more noticable while decelerating than accelerating, and unfortunately, has grown louder over the last week! Is this related to wheel bearings, or the differential??? Any guidance would be much appreciated!
  • jimmye1jimmye1 Member Posts: 4
    small fader knob is missing. can't get one from jeep. can't find one in junkyard. suggestions please
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