Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

rover96 · May 2003

Thanks for your help Mark.

But isn't "Engine check Light" could means oil pressure. I don't think ML320 has a separate oil pressure light. What if the filter element collapse?

akin67 · May 2003

I have a 2000 ML 430 with 23,000 miles on it. I had to replace the rear pads at 11,000 miles. Now I have 23,000 miles on it and the dealer is telling me I need to replace the front pads and rotors at a cost of $572.

Should I be changing these barkes and Rotors with only 23,000 miles? Also $572 seems very high. Anyone else have a similar experience? Is this the going rate?

thor8 · May 2003

When I hear a story like yours I take it with a grain of salt, is possible for the pads to wear this soon because the MB pads are kind of soft but that is a good thing, one of the benefits is the protection of the rotor, a pad can wear this soon depending of your driving habits, if you are the type that comes at full speed to a stop sign or red light the pads will wear faster, the ML weighs over two tons, lots of friction there, at over 60K on my ML430 my brakes are still good but I am the type that anticipates and when I know a braking is coming I coast or dont even hurry especially with a heavy vehicle like this.

When the brakes are cold try to stick your fingers into the rotor and feel and see how much wear you have if is a 1/16 or around (the difference between the wear and non wear surfaces) you should be OK, second why dont you try an independent shop that does high volume brake jobs, if they dont have the pads you can stop by the dealer and buy the pads or you can buy or order the pads from an independent supplier.

markjenn · May 2003

CELs are typically an engine computer or sensor issue. The manual says to continue driving and have the dealer check it. Low oil pressure can cause almost immediate engine damage, so it typically has a separate warning system and you should stop the car, check the oil, and probably call a tow truck.

You have to remove the engine shroud to get to the filter. Is it possible you pinched a hose or wire putting it back on?

- Mark

rover96 · May 2003

Fix it. But real strange. Here what it is:

I filled with 8 QT & it's 3/4 mark between min & max(you would think it's OK, right). Check oil level with dash board knob& it shown blinking "------". Normally if it's in working condition, it should say "oil iO".
So, I filled it up all the way to max mark. Reset FSS again. Restart engine but still with engine Check light stay on.
Drove around the block few time. Shut it down few time. At the very last restart, Light finally went off.!!!

My guess is the on board computer. Oil level needed to be at MAX!??? It's need time to reset? Don't really know. But top it to the top seems fix it. I recalled back when I toke my car to MB dealer for service. I was wondered why they filled it slightly pass the max mark, now I know. May be oil level was low & trigger the onboard chip to stay on when I first change the oil. But it was between min & max mark!!oh well, at least it's OFF now.

About the one who ask about changing the Brake pad. If you feel like do it yourself. It's easy job. Bought after market brake pad for less than $100 USD. Replace them (all 4) around an hour. It's the easiest job (4 pad, better than drums). Dealer wound probably charged you about the price you quote. Or you can get the part & have almost any shop to do it for you. It has to be cheaper than MB dealer. This is one job that you don't have to had MB dealer to do it for you.

markjenn · May 2003

The CEL system has a reset mode where if the fault isn't still present after a certain number of restarts, then the CEL system resets. This sounds like what yours has done.

I still maintain that the oil system and the CEL system are completely unrelated, but I really don't know for sure. I do know that I've changed the oil, put in 8-qts, had it about at the 3/4 mark as you say, and I never got a CEL.

Glad its "fixed". Just don't be surprised if it comes on again. MB's are notorious for random and spurious CELs as well as BAS and ESP lights. I've had these lights come on at least ten times and although I used to run to the dealer, now I wait and see if they reset and go away. The last couple times they have and I haven't had a light for 10K miles.

- Mark

rover96 · June 2003

Mark:
Thanks for your info.

Quote "The CEL system has a reset mode where if the fault isn't still present"

I recalled seeing something like that in the manual "the control module switches off the check engine indicator lamp if the condition, causing the lamp to come on, no longer exists"

Whatever it was, It's finally reset itself. Strange thing is, it doesn't rest itself right away but after few restart.

One other Question. How important is the copper washer @ the drain plug? It fell to the ground when I initial remove the plug. Didn't see it. So my initial installation, I didn't put it back. Wonder will it make any different?

Drove the car for 3+ yrs, never have any problem with dash board lights. They always turn itself off except this 1 time. Knock on wood!!

markjenn · June 2003

Well, it it's not leaking, I'd probably leave it alone, but get a new one for your next oil change. It is a crush washer, designed to provide a little cush and seal the opening better. You're really supposed to replace them with each oil change, but I've reused them several times on various vehicles without incident.

If you really want to be sure you should replace it now, but it will be messy and you may lose quite a bit of oil depending on how adept you are keeping your finger over the opening while you swap in the washer.

- Mark

thor8 · June 2003

The proper procedure is for the copper washer to be in place, you may develop a leak, dont make the mistake of curing the leak by over tightening the drain plug (it calls for a low torque), is easy to strip the threads and then something simple and inexpensive turns into something serious and expensive.

rover96 · June 2003

I always put washer underneath the bolt head. It serve the purpose to protect the casting or whatever the housing surface. It's easy to replace the washer than the housing. Plus it will help to spread the load evenly.

Anyway, I was wonder did the washer take up some depth for any sensor( if there's any)inside the oil pan?? Cause it to ground & trigger the sensor or something.

Replaced the copper washer afterward. Took bolt off. Use finger to plug the drain hole. Put washer & bolt back on. Have small spill on ground but not enough to cause any problem.

akin67 · June 2003

Does it make sense for both the pads and rotors to wear down? If the pads are soft as you state, wouldn't the pads completely wear out before the rotors?

rover96 · June 2003

Whenever 2 materials make contact, the lower the hardness number, the faster it will wear out. In this case, it's the pad.
With 23000 miles, I normally wouldn't replace the rotor but it's all depends on your driving habbit.
As Thor8 said, look the outer edge of the rotor. You sould see a ridge along the outer edge of the rotor which is the unwear portion of the rotor (somewhat close to the original thickness of the rotor). Compare it to the center portion of the rotor. And you can tell the different thickness involved. There is certain min thickness requirement for the rotor. But as I said, for 23K miles, I don't think u need to replace the rotor at this time but u never know. Pads changing is cheaper than the whole replacement (pads & rotor).
As for your mileaage(23K), my suggestion is to replace the pads only & see how it behave. It will buy you some more time(another 10K ~30K). In time you can tell whether the rotor is warp or not by looking at the pad's wear condtion. Then you can decide to replace the whole thing if it's needed.
My guess is no more than $200 if you just replace the pads only.
Good luck

thor8 · June 2003

Rover96 has said it well, I am always skeptic when the dealer says the rotor is gone this early, the last I checked a repair manual for the ML was not available so I dont know what the wear allowance is, Wolfgang is a knowledgeable guy about the ML, you can check his ML page or maybe ask him,

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/abs.html

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/delite.html

once you know the permissible wear it is easy to measure with a micrometer or have any brake shop to measure it for you.

rover96 · June 2003

Sometimes, right along the outer or inner edge of a rotor, you may find stamping about max & min thickness for the rotor. Can't remember seeing on ML or not.
BTW if your rotor warp so soon, I wouldn't buy a MB any more.

tiger2doll · June 2003

Hi All,

I have a 2002 ML500 - bought it used recently. Love the vehicle. One strange thing is happening - when I start the car for the first time in the morning and set the destination in the Nav Sys, I get very nice and audible voice prompts for directions. When I set the destination in the sys for the 2nd time - I get very low volume voice prompts ?? If I increase the MCS volume - the radio volume goes up not the Nav Prompt volume. I looked in the Owners Manual - couldn't find a section for setting and adjusting Nav settings and Voice Prompt volume ? Please Help - if I can't hear the voice prompt - what good is the Nav Sys then ? Is there a special Nav Sys booklet which I am missing ? All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rahul Puranik

mark156 · June 2003

Tiger, on mine, I adjust the nav volume when the "nice lady" is talking. If you need her to talk, hit the "nav voice" button just left of the volume control and she will repeat her command. Turn the volume control while she is talking.

Mark

kxs1 · June 2003

does anybody know if my ml350 need service for the first 1000 miles? thanks.

mark156 · June 2003

Kxs1, my service advisor said NO. The FSS will tell you when service is needed. But, to make myself feel better, I had the oil changed at 1,500 miles on my E430 and on my ML500. Just the thought of breaking in the new engine and not changing the oil drove me crazy. It brought me peace of mind even though "they" say it wasn't needed.

Just my .02.... Mark

khoon · June 2003

Can anyone recommend a source (other than the MB dealer) for oil filters for the ML320?

Does Bosch make the original filter for MB?

tiger2doll · June 2003

Hi Mark,

Thanks a lot for your suggestion - it works fine. I wonder why this is not mentioned anywhere in the Owners Manual !!!!

Regards,
Tiger

tiger2doll · June 2003

Any suggestions on which ones to buy ? I think the WeatherTech comes in Grey, Black & Tan to match the interior whereas the Mercedes one's come only in Black. Has anyone had any good / bad experiences with either ones ?

rover96 · June 2003

I bought mine Oil Filter from ORiely Auto store

kxs1 · June 2003

Thank you Mark156. I appreciate your info.

emmabaker · June 2003

Plan on shuttling my kids around town and expect to use the 7 seat /3rd row in ML350 about 20% of the time. Before I buy, anyone have any thoughts or comments.
Not interested in minivan; and wife doesn't like Accura MDX.
We both like ML350.

kiiwii · June 2003

ML's NAV voice does not change with vehicle speed.

You may also consider "catchall" It's kindda like "weather tech" but got a carpet type of material on top. It doesn't cost more than weath tech, but looks much nicer.

markjenn · June 2003

For a car in which the 3rd-row of seats is going to be used 20% of the time, I'd put the ML pretty low on the list. It's tight back there, the seats are fussy, access is difficult, and when the seat is in use, there is almost no cargo room.

By far the best vehicles for loading 3rd row seats are the minivans. The Senna is now available AWD and in some very luxurious trim levels, so the only thing you'd be giving up is off-road capability. Even a top of the line AWD Sienna with nav is under $35K.

If you must go SUV, then I'd look first at the Pilot, however, it is the twin of the MDX, so maybe this is out. I'd look at the Toyota Sequoia next. Or go with Ford and GM which make pretty good large SUVs: Tahoe or Expedition/Navigator.

- Mark

psedrish · June 2003

can you find where it explains how to bring up the map that shows continuous location of your vehicle in their manual?

mark156 · June 2003

I agree with Markjenn, the third row seat are a little tight and cumbersome to operate, but if you are only using it 20% of the time, it's the perfect solution. With a little practice, it becomes second nature to maneuver the seats. They do take up cargo space even when stored (pinned back) on the sides but when you need 7 passenger space, "Viola", dropped down those babies and you have a school bus! LOL!

Another alternative would be the Mercury Mountaineer, Ford Explorer or the Lincoln Aviator. These vehicles are not as "huge" as an Expedition/Navigator and have fold flat third row seats. Personally, I find the GM products so unattractive (The extended chassis GMC Envoy/Chevy Trailblazer) that I wouldn't even consider them. I'm not even sure if their seats fold flat or not.

The Honda Pilot does not offer a sunroof if you were not aware. I think Honda wants the MDX to appear more "upgraded".

Oh, I forgot about the Lexus GX470, I think the third row seats fold flat on those too.

Mark

hooperdan · June 2003

thought i would post over here since it seems as if this forum gets more traffic

I'm wondering what people have purchased their ml 500s for? We are currently looking at a white one at Fletcher Jones (newport beach, ca) with the M3 (convenience),M5 (sunroof) and Bose. Can i purchase this car for under 43,000?

Price
Dealer
Options

mac320 · June 2003

Are you talking new? Then, not a chance: we got $5K off MSRP for an '02 ML430 in May of '02. The V8 MLs have gone up in price since then to ... $52K??? So, I'm thinking you probably can meet or beat about $47K but almost $10K off? Sounds incredible but let us know if it happens!

mark156 · June 2003

Mac, they didn't make "430's" in 2002, either you purchased a ML320 or a ML500. I bought my 2002 ML500 completely loaded with nav, xenons, parktronic, third row seats, etc... in December of 2001 for $1,500 off list (had to special order). Listed for a little over $52K.

Mark

mac320 · June 2003

We have a 2000, not a '02.

khoon · June 2003

Can anyone recommend a good top-sider and a web source to purchase it?

Tx in advance.

djdj · June 2003

GX470 is not a real third seat. There is no foot well.

A friend bought one because she wanted a third seat but she just test drove it, liked the way it rode and got one within a week, without putting her kids back there until she got it.

Basically, they (a tiny 7 year old and a big 14 year old) can't sit there. Plus when the back seats are in, the second row can't recline, so they rear seats came out and stayed out.

The Sequoia's third seat is great, but its a huge truck to drive around. I really like it but didn't want anything that size. Since I don't need a 3rd seat I got the ML320 and love driving it.

khoon · June 2003

I have a '99 ML320 with 3rd row seats. I bought it only for the 3rd row seats. I have 2 kids 13 and 11 and in a crunch they're fine back there for drives around the town/short drives. At times my wife gets in there as well.

So, if you're considering the 3rd seats and are concerned about space/comfort my advise is go for it! I checked the competition - Lexus, etc. they're all the same.

Having owned the ML for about 4 years now, I pobably won't do it again. The product has its glitches - what's worse is MB-USA's arrogance!

We're seriously considering the Volvo XC90 - seems to engineered a whole lot better and the interior beats the ML hands down!

All the best with your decision.

jjjgong · June 2003

I just had maintence done on my 99 ML320 before our vacation by Atlanta Mercedes dealer RMB. The dealer charged:

$365 for spark plug change
$389 for fuel filter change

Is this what peoples been paying for?

Thanks,
J.G.

Grand · June 2003

We are in the market for either a 2000 or 2001 ML320. What are the main differences between the two years? Any recommendation from owners of these two years? What should I expect to pay for? Any advice would be very helpful.
P.S. when did the side curtain airbags become std on the ML?

mac320 · June 2003

We have an '00 ML430--it has side airbags in the doors for both the front and rear occupants as standard equipment. Side "head" airbags, however, was not on MLs until '01, i.e., the curtain-type arrangement that covers both front and rear occupants.

I think the A/C system may have been beefed up beginning in '01. They also started getting heavier somewhere along the way (maybe more insulation), so the ML's V6 was bored out to 3.7L beginning with its mid-year introduction in '03.

wmquan · June 2003

Did not become available for the ML until model year 2002. The 2002's have significant design changes, such as integrated foglights in a revised nose, auto up/down all windows, etc. And of course the side curtains.

Differences between the 2000 and 2001 were not as substantial. There are some items like hill descent, Teleaid, etc. Of course, M-Class quality goes up every year so the 2001's will have some advantages there as well.

jorgegvb · June 2003

I have a '02 ML 320. Has anyone experienced a loud whistling/chirping noise at start up? The sound appears to be emanating from under the dashboard near the steering column. The noise can last anywhere from 15 seconds to several minutes. It doesn't happen all the time, when it does it is mainly at the first start-up of the day. However, I have experienced a few times later in the day too.

I took the vehicle to the dealer, but they could not duplicate the problem. I was hoping someone else may have had this problem and had it corrected.

email77 · June 2003

to jorgegvb
Was it sound like a high pitch noice from the driver side? If so you should check the fuse box that is a fan under make the noise, all you have to do is lube the fan. you can see a lot of people have this problem under "MB M-Class Owners: Problems & Solutions". If you don't fix it the noise is coming more and more frequent when the weather is getting cold.

markjenn · June 2003

Mine came today. I have a 2000 ML320.

- Mark

2screwsloose · June 2003

As stated previously, the noise heard upon starting the engine, sounds like it is behind the instrument cluster (intermittent), is the ventilation blower motor for the module box/fuse box under the hood. This helps keep the electronic components cooler than they might get due to their location in the engine compartment. The blower motor has been modified - easily distinguished by the overall size difference. Replacement of the blower motor cures the problem, period. Please do not confuse this blower motor with AC/heater blower motor. Happy motoring!

2screwsloose · June 2003

Spark plugs (two per cylinder - platinum) should be replaced at 100K miles. More than 2 hrs. labor to do so. Fuel filter should be replaced at 60K miles. Has been modified w/modified fuel lines to fuel pump (inside under rear seat- necessary to remove rear seat - not 3rd seat - to repl fuel lines). Left rear wheel and wheelhouse liner needs to removed first for access to fuel filter.

st304932 · June 2003

I just got a ML350 with only the base stereo system (no CD player, no navigation, etc.). I'd like to add an MP3/CD player, but everyone I've talked to has no idea if it can be done (Circuit City, Best Buy, AND the local MB dealer!!!!). Has anyone tried this or found out anything about whether it can be done? I'm assuming it would have to stay out of the way (and possibly interface with) that motorized face plate thing...

Thanks,

Steve

prodogs · June 2003

Need to hand in my lease next month but have a crack in the black plastic that surrounds the driver side mirror. Mercedes wants me to pay $219 for it. (Guy who inspected car). Help. This thing shouldn't cost more than $15.

Does anyone know of a place to pick up parts for the driver side mirror??

Your help is greatly appreciated.
I have a 2000 ML320
Frank

stever · June 2003

Those things aren't cheap on domestic cars either (mine's banged up on my minivan from dropping a canoe on it, and I opted for epoxy instead of the ~$170 for a mirror housing (a new mirror has to come with mine though).

Try a local salvage yard and see if they can find one using their computer network.

Steve, Host

markjenn · June 2003

I've cracked the surround on my 2000 ML. I did some checking and there really aren't any aftermarket alternatives - if you see the part, you'll see how complex it is. (I'm not even certain how you get it off/on, although I'm sure I can figure it out eventually.) There are a few dealers selling OEM MB parts at small discounts, but you probably won't do a whole lot better than your dealer.

Through a fit of brain fade, I bought the passenger side surround when I needed the driver's side. It's been too long since I did it to return it, so I'll make a deal to anyone who might need it.

- Mark

mac320 · June 2003

Are you still paying 5¢ for a loaf of bread?

markjenn · June 2003

I'm not absolutely certain (I can't match the part number to the codes on the receipt), but I think the mirror surround three years ago was $84. The $219 figure probably includes labor, and the typical inflated prices charged for anything at lease turn-in (one reason I don't lease). As I said, I don't know whats involved in replacing it, but it IS a complicated part.

- Mark

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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