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I have a brand new ML350. After witness a roll over accident of an toyota 4x4 that killed everybody in that vehicle, I become very concern about the possibility of roll over of my suv.
Does anyone here has or knows any body else that experience the roll over problem with this vehicle? Unfortunately, there is no record of testing or rating on roll over of this model for me to check! Please help.
Here are a couple of links that will provide a wealth of information, several hours of good reading and all about Mercedes and safety design.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/crashes.html
http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/crashes.htm
However, it probably would have been worse in many other vehicles. The ML probably has the best roof structure after the more recently designed XC90.
No vehicle is going to protect passengers 100% in a rollover, of course. Some of the photos in the second link show roof crushing. I believe the NHTSA FARS database does have some rollover-related fatalities with the ML, just like other vehicles.
My specific issue is about an undiagnosed and seemingly undiagnosable 'sloshing' sound that sounds like a fish tank of water moving around in the car upon accel/decel. The boys at MB tried to shake the car around to find it. That's it.
Any ideas what it might be and if it is dangerous?
Thanks!
I won't be buying another one - but I doubt I could sell this one until I resolve the aforementioned.
I agree with most of the complaints in this forum. From a relaibility perspective, the bloody thing sucks!!! My lemon guzzles 1 FULL QUART of expensive synthetic oil for every 1000 miles!!!! MB-USA's response to that is ....it's within our specifications.
When I first complained to my dealer - Benzel Busch in Englewood, NJ; I was told that a Rolls Royce consumes even more oil - so I should be glad!!!
I couldn't decide who was worse, MBUSA, or the dealer. Needless to say, if I had to do it all over again, I'd go for a Japanese SUV and enjoy the reliability.
I hope potential buyers read and investigate the experiences of the current owners prior to burning their hard earned money on these expensive lemons.
My dealer did an oil consumption check and the consumtion was within specifications. I have never had to top up the oil between services after that.
The reason I took it to the dealer was because at that time, there was some messages going around that the people who followed the FSS indicator using conventional oil might have had engine damage and mb was paying for repairs. The dealer had used regular oil for my first oil change. Ever since I use only Mobil 1 and change oil every 7500 miles. I dont' trust the FSS for the oil changes. Ofcourse I do the regular service when the FSS says it is due for one.
Not to take anything away from their accomplishment--being #1 is still #1--it doesn't mean much to me, given the low numbers.
The scores are numbers of incidences per 100 cars like 2.5 or 3.8 and etc. There is still many owners that do not have problems, and the way I look at it, who cares if you take your car in for some attention under warranty during the first few months of ownership and they fix 1 problem or 2 problems while it's there: 2 fixes would run the score up but the buyer shouldn't have much concern about it if the mfg is standing behind their car.
Moreover, the longer term experience is much more important than little nigglies in the first few months. And, you cannot forget about the demagraphics: MB owners are older on average than the purchasers of many other makes so you've got the "old-fart" factor to deal with when it comes to complaints.
I think Lexus may have one big advantage over mfgs like MB that do not have a cheaper line of auto. CR said years ago that a Lexus 300 was simply a Camry costing $10K more.
For an extra $10K, you can practically reassemble every "Camry" before the "L" goes on, just to make sure some of the nigglies are ironed out. that's what used to said about what was done in Japan before an American-made auto could be sold in Japan.
At any rate, I think the results are bogus anyway. I cannot believe that a no-frills, plane-Jo Ford F150 with virtually no features and few significant changes from year to year would not have fewer complaints about problems in the first few months compared to any other car with sophisticated electronic and mechanical features and so much more to go wrong, no matter how well it may be built.
I especially love reading scores and prognostications from supposedly expert organizations like Kelly Blue Book, for instance, with appraisals about what the best cars will be 5 years down the road, based on the opinions of their "editors." Just how much editing goes into producing KBB?
I'm pretty sure that most if not all of what you read about rating cars is merely marketing--they're taking money for these ratings like the polsters that seem to always come up with the results that the sponsor of the poll wants to see.
Today I dropped off my ML500 at the Dealers place for getting a couple issues fixed. Its a 2002 with 14K miles on it :
1. Faulty Fuel Guage - Does not show full even though the fuel tank is full. The SA said the MTBE in the fuel causes the Fuel Sending Unit to conk off - will replace it.
2. Whistling Noise from left dash - It is the famous Aspirator Motor - will replace it.
3. Security Alarm goes off randomly - looks like some software fix is in place.
4. Rear Brakes squeak when reversing - don't know what they are going to do.
5. Rt side door locks make noise when unlocking - don't know what they are going to do.
About 3 mths ago I had gotten the FSS A Service performed on the vehicle. The issues which were fixed then were :
1. Power Steering Hose Clamp recall - no issues so far.
2. Replced the Windshield WasherFluid Tank - had cracked.
3. The radio was switching from Stereo to mono by itself - some software fix - working fine so far.
4. The Rt side window trim had faded - replaced the Fr and Rear window trim.
5. During hot days when the car would get hot from inside - some squeaking noise would come form the dash on driving. Dealer could not reproduce the problem - haven't heard the squeak since then.
On both occassions the dealer had to keep the car over night - got a E320 and a C320 as loaners.
Personally, very happy with the vehicle in terms of looks, styling, and the raw power. Nothing comes close to it. There are these annoying problems - which luckily are being fixed under warranty.
Will get the vehicle tomorrow as it is overnight at the dealer's. Will post an update later.
Happy motoring,
Tiger2Doll
I just have never seen these many problems in a Lexus. I own a Lexus and read lexus forum a lot.
BTW, in German, MB make cheap cars as well. I remember that years ago, when I lived in Europe, I saw small MB cars cost around $10,000 -- $15,000.
MB still use CD based NAV also does not make sense to me.
I think that when you pay more for a Lexus than for a parallel Toyota product that is functionally equivalent, you're probably paying for someone to go through it. The results have been good enough to make this approach a successful marketing tool about quality.
As for NAV units, our '03 ML500 has a DVD Nav system which is better than the the first generation CD-based system: more than two states fit on a disk. We traded in an '00 ML430 and I do not know of any other SUVs that came with NAV units as standard equipment in 2000 or any car that had DVD-based systems in that year.
I am told by MB that they are aware of this problem, yet they refuse to rectify it. Hopefully you don't live in a cold climate or it would be screeching all the time.
I have had 3 other ML's and none of them had this many problems. I am at my wits end.
If any one has any advice, I would appreciate it.
Your BAS "light" is working or you wouldn't notice that it's on. I also have a 98 E320 that had a recurring BAS light. Strange as it may seem, the cause was low voltage in the battery due to one weak or shorted cell. If they can't fix that, or anything else, just keep their loaner and tell them to bring yours back when it's right.
Be persistant. Park your truck in front of their service door the night before you need stuff done as they can't get anyone else in until they get yours in. If you don't get it done right, copy your paperwork and mail it to MB, and change dealers.
- Mark
The most common solution is to apply a compound to the back of the pads this compound will compress in the high pressure rear and allows full contact of the pad and eliminating the room for vibration. Applying more pressure to a squealing brake can easily prove it. By doing so you eliminated the vibrating gap.
But at the end I agree with Marks assessment in his last sentence, the noise is not a safety issue or that something is wrong, most times changing braking habits will take care of that or simply let the brakes wear some more and it will go away, because the issue is more common with new thick pads, that is why people that continuously go to the dealer and they install new pads the noise comes right back.
Got the vehicle back last night. The dealer had to keep it for 2 nights. Here's what they did :
1. Faulty Fuel Guage - Replaced the Fuel Pump and the Fuel Sending Unit. A common known issue.
2. Whistling Noise from left dash - It was the famous Aspirator Motor - replaced it.
3. Security Alarm goes off randomly - could not reproduce it. They thing it had something to do with point # 5.
4. Rear Brakes squeak when reversing - they kept the car overnight for 2 days. Tested it - could not reproduce it. The Tech said that very slight noise especially early in the morning is normal when the brakes have been cold overnight. The noise does not come with regular driving - have been asked to keep and eye on the same.
5. Rt side door locks make noise when unlocking - the door lock assembly on the Rear Rt door had to be replaced. The latch and some retaining clip was replaced. No noise comming now. They suspect the Security Alsrm was going off due to the Rear Rt Door not locking properly.
One strange thing happened yesterday - the steering on this vehicle is pretty tight compared to my other care 99 Lexus RX300. Before I dropped off the vehicle on Mon the PS had the tough feel. But yesterday after I picked up the vehicle - the PS has become very smooth and light. Its as smooth and light as the RX300. I don't know waht they did (or didn't do) but the PS feels very smooth now. The PS recall on my car was done 3 mths ago.
Enjoying the vehicle - seem to have got affected with all known issues and got them fixed. Hopefully these will not re-occur.
Happy driving,
Tiger2Doll
Battery life is wildly variable, mostly depending on climate and how much time the car has sit unused but anything beyond four years or so is living on borrowed time. Batteries are cheap and easy to replace, so if in doubt, replace.
- Mark
I have a 2002 ML500 and was surprised to find out that it does not have the 2 fans in front of the Radiator. There is a big gap between the radiator and the front bumber. My friends ML350 has the 2 fans !! Is it a feature on the ML500 or is my car missing something ? Please help.
Thanks,
Tiger2doll
I guess there's one of everything. Here's knocking on wood it stays this trouble-free.
Mark156
There's a little more room up front compared to older models but not because something is missing. The bumper was moved out with the last face lift but the change was more than cosmetic. There seems to be some extra support up front for even greater crash protection: the hood bra from our '00 ML430 fits fine but the lower bumper part of the bra doesn't fit. There is a very substantial looking tubular bar across the front, behind the bumper, that I never saw on the older model.
Or I should let it go and lease a new 2004 4Runner instead?
suggestions?
2) How un-reliable has it been? An extended warranty will cost you about $2500.
3) Do you want to keep driving a used MB or drive a new Toyota?
Keep in mind that dealerships trade cars all the time, and they negotiate shipping expenses depending on the desirability of the model. So the actual cost to the dealership may be widely variable.
Like all aspects of car buying, you can negotiate this charge. If you really wanted a car sitting somewhere else and you've already negotiated them down to their bottom line offer, I'd see if they'd bring the car in for $250 or so which probably more closely reflects their actual expense.
BTW, if the car you want is sitting on a far-away lot, I'd inquire about its current mileage. It may be a demo unit or may have been used for extensive test drives. When you buy a car off the dealer's lot, you can drive it and see the mileage, but if the car is shipped to you, then you don't know unless you ask.
My understanding is that ML500s are currently in plentiful supply with aggressive discounts. If possible, I'd shop other dealers, modify your color/option preference, or accept a longer wait to get the car you want shipped directly to your dealer with nominal mileage rather than paying this fee and buying a car that has been sitting on another dealer's lot for awhile.
- Mark
1) I will be paying around 14k for 3 years, a new 4-runner will cost around 30k on average.
2) I'd say it had not been that reliable, but everything that was done was taken care of by the warranty, my assumption is the extended warranty should relieve me from that worry.
3) I am undecided on this question, I have not test driven the 4-runner yet, but I do like my MB.
The V8 will shine if you tow, carry loads, or do a lot of mountain driving. But it's hard on gas and is more clumsy.
Most folks think later is better on model years - MB made steady improvements over the years. But you have to balance this against the cost. I'm not aware of detail improvements from 2001 to 2002 - I think the big changes occurred in 2003 with the ML350 and ML500.
- Mark
Love the ride and precision steering, the suspension is on the stiff side but it was designed so for off road handling.
The bigger tires on the V8 are there to take advantage of the bigger engine, the differentials on the V8 have less reduction than the V6.
There is no specific problem area other than the infamous fuel pump and the window switches and the recall on the steering hose clamp.
Other than that an issue can arise at random, most of them are the cheese components that Mercedes sub contracted and installed on the ML and gave all the bad publicity and with a reason.
I can’t speak for newer models since I never drove one, I know the year after mine they added extra insulation and are quieter than the 98 and 99’s.
I have towed real heavy weights with my ML and is a work horse, they are built strong, had they gone the extra mile and made sure everything that went in there was first class they would have a winner, IMO.
I agree with Mark, they have made many upgrades since they first launched the vehicle.
If dealing with car issues bothers you, I'd go for a Japanese SUV - it is hard to beat the reliability of SUVs like the Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander, and Nissan Pathfinder. OTOH, I think a late-model ML will do better than a X5, XC90, or Touareg.
I'm soldiering on outside of warranty with my eyes wide open. I really like the truck (and German vehicles in general - I've got a Mini on order), but would like it a lot more if I have no further problems.
- Mark
That's true of all MB vehicles, and not just the ML.
That is exactly what I was talking about “cheese subcomponents” dammed why cant they just buy better and problem solved.
The ML430 will have bigger, better brakes. I do not know about balance, but for us, the ride was better in '00 and '03 when we did the V6/V8 comparison (probably because of the difference in power).
And, the 275s on all four corners are awesome and contribute to give the V8's better wet surface stopping distance than any other ~5K lb. vehicle. The V6's higher profile tires would be better for offroad but I think the V8's lower profile tires offer better handling for our kind of driving.
The newer year may have some good features worth considering though, e.g, when were side head airbags introduced? Our ML may have been the only truck in '00 to have side airbags for both front and back passengers but side-head bags came later. Also, the air conditioning system was improved after '00--was it '01 or '02 (look to see if it has two fans in front of the radiator--if so, it's the older system)? When was the gas tank volume increased from 19 gallons to 22? And, the rain-sensing wipers and the center cupholder were added sometime after '00--they are convenient features too.
The mileage probably is better for the 320 unless you have a lot of hills in your travel routes but the 430 makes towing easy and comes with GPS.
My comment about the bigger wheels of the 430 not necessarily being desirable is based on John Lamm's M-Class book that states: "... the 255-65-16 tires are probably a bit larger than Mercedes' engineers woudl prefer. In Europe the M-Class has 225/75-16s, but Americans like bigger tires on their SUVs."
Additional, Consumer Reports has stated in their reviews, "The V8-powered ML500 accelerates faster but rides less comfortably and is thirstier for premium fuel." They further conclude, "The Mercedes ML430 V8 is a very capable and well-rounded vehicle. Handling is secure, braking is good, and the interior is bigger than it appears. But we actually prefer the six-cylinder ML320, which handles better, offers more comfort, and costs about $7,000 less."
If you want/need more power than the V6 provides, then certainly the 430/500 is the vehicle of choice. But don't fall into the trap of always thinking bigger is universally better.
- Mark
Thanks
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0760304319/qid=1067- 963955/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_8/104-2179217-4307144?v=glance&n=50784- 6
If this doesn't work, but try a search by author for "John Lamm".
The book is wonderful book on how the M-Class was developed, but it is highly pro-ML - it reads like a printed infomercial - it reminds me of the "Test Drives" that appear on the Speed Channel. If they haven't updated it, it is highly out of date as well as it appeared when the car first shipped and the version doesn't cover any of the changes or developments post the original 98/99 models. IOW, it's an interesting book but neither objective nor comprehensive. Great photography.
- Mark
Has anyone done this to newer ML350?
Do you know the part # for the dvd unit?
Do you think I can install it?
To install, you will need to buy a set of "keys" to pull out the MCS. You can buy them from eBay or the dealer. A pair of keys should be around $10-15. The install is very easy. Get your radio code handy, cuz you will need to disconnect the MCS power source. Once you pull out the MCS, open up the cover. There are 4 screws holding the top cover. Pop in the DVD drive, connect the cable, and push the MCS back to the slot. That's all.
On the old MLs, it's necessary to version code the MCS to make it "talk". I was told that it's not necessary for new MLs. I'm not 100% sure on this. You may want to check with the dealer. Even without the version code, your NAV will still work. The only thing you miss is the voice guidence.
Thanks everyone!
Also, the BOSE system will just go completely off while in use, with the solution , again, pull the fuse (still a good fuse), re-start engine, re-enter security code for radio. A real pain. It seems to happen when I use the cruise control , but I cannot re-create the problem by trying to re-create it, it just happens randomly.
The dealer, of course, typed out two sheets of the mechanics opinion, trying to convince me it was my problem, and the system was fine. Its happening with some frequency
Help!!
Thanks