Engine Additives

armtdm · May 2000

The dealer must prove that the failure of the component is due to the oil not doing its job as opposed to the owner not changing it at specified intervals. The oil has to fail which it never really does. Recommended intervals are just that, you will never void a warranty by extending the drain interval, they must prove the oil failed!!!!
Plus, Amsoil warranties its oil for extended intervals and will fight the battle for you if the delaer claims Amsoil failed to properly lubricate!

0patience · May 2000

Yes,you can fight it in a legal battle,but the costs will be high.The fleet I take care of has oil sample analysis done on everything and I can tell you,the oil may not break down,but oil breakdown is not what ruins the bearings and causes failures,contaminates are what destroys an engine.Amsoil can claim whatever they want about their oil,because they know that contaminates are the main cause of wear and they will claim that the oil has become contaminated and walk away.
Contaminates,moisture and acids build up in an engine and start to eat away bearings,rings and cylinders.So,if you want to extend your intervals and save that extra $50 a year,more power to you.
Personally,I have enough knowledge about oils that I prefer to go with the recommended oil changes on my wifes new car and every 6 months on my older pickup,because it only gets driven about 200 miles a month.If you live in a very wet climate as I do,moisture contaminates oil over a period of time.If you question contamination of oil,buy an oil sample analysis kit,they are available from CATERPILLER for about $17,it includes a sample bottle and prepaid postage container,you send in the sample and they will analyze it and send a report.The report breaks down the contaminates in Parts Per Million(PPM) and it will list chemicals and metals that are contaminating the oil,then if you don't understand what you are looking at,they will have a toll free number to call for an explanation.You would be surprised at what contaminates get into oils.

kmh3 · June 2000

Every car I have ever had developed pinging
after about 4 years. Someone finally told me a real reason for it, namely carbon deposits. Better gas (premium) helped but did not make the problem go away.

My wife however does not have this problem, so I am beginning to think it is my driving habits. I tend to buy more overpowered cars than she does so I might be working the engine too hard or not hard enough. I might be revving too low also (not downshifting when I need to), but I don't know for sure.

I also seen advertisements for gas additives that remove carbon deposits. Anybody know anything about these? I also paid a dealer once $125 to remove carbon deposits, they put something like oven cleaner in the engine overnight. This made it better but the problem still didn't go away.

Paradoxically, driving the engine harder also seems help keep things clean but I don't know if that contributes to the buildup problem in the long term.

And an engine that pings is no fun to drive at all. I have a mechanic friend who gives me dour warnings of what hard pinging can do to your cylinder heads.

I just bought a new car and would like to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent this from happening again. Does anybody have any ideas?

kmh3

tpmiller · June 2000

have you ever submitted a synthetic for testing after 4k? I ask because I just received a new Dakota QC pickup. The manual has an "A" schedule recommending oil changes at 7,500 (after break-in change). I figured I could switch to synthetics at 1k and then reasonably go 5-6k between changes.

kmh3 · June 2000

No I never did any formal testing. I watched for "soupiness" and discoloration in the oil coming out. If it came out significantly different than it went in (except for some color change) then I figured I let it stay in too long.

Some of my cars seem to "cook" oil worse than others, maybe it is how hard they are driven or what temparature they operate at, I don't really know for sure.

I had a Dakota V8 (CC) once and it wasn't hard on oil (except that it burned it after 35k mostly city miles). I enjoyed that truck. It could pass anything but a gas station and never gave me any trouble for the five years I had it.

kmh3

greg29 · June 2000

Has anyone out there in automotive land used Marvel Oil in their fuel ( 4oz to each ten Gallons of gasoline )? This is a very old product, and at one time it was used with " automatic oilers" on automotive engines. It is still being used on inboard and I/O Marine engines as a fuel system /upper cylinder /lubricant additive.( for fuel system components,valves & piston rings). The product is safe for O2 sensors. Engines that run this in the fuel seen to operate very smooth. ----Any comments or opinions?

pat455 · June 2000

There has been some discussion of this product here. You could take a look at the 20 or so posts in Marvel Mystery Oil (Topic #954) to see the comments.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

bigbozer · June 2000

I learned driving a car on my dad's 1948 Chevrolet Fleetmaster in Bombay, India. Dad used to take it regularly to a CALTEX gas station for oil changes, greasing and tire rotation (every 5000 miles). There was an old man (since deceased) called Fredon (or Freddy) who used to personally change the oil, check all the joints, grease all the nipples and rotate the tires. Freddy would drain all the used oil and replace the drain plug. Lower the car and add a "flushing oil" (I presume it was a thin single grade 5W oil) up to the minimum level on the dipstick. Then he would start the engine without touching the accelerator and let the engine idle for about 5 mins. Then he would switch off the engine, raise the car the drain the "flushing oil". He would replace the oil drain plug and put in Castrol's 20-40W multigrade. We used the Chevrolet from 1950 to 1975. The odometer had stopped working after 300,000 miles in the early 70s. I followed the same practice using the "flushing oil" on my Honda motorcycles CB125 and CB77 Superhawk although the changes were more frequent at 2000 miles (needless to say the threads on my drain plus wore out twice and once the sump plate had to be removed and new threads threded in with a die). Nowadays nobody seems to be using "flushing oil", instead opting for frequent changes. I was told kerosene/paraffin can be used as a "flushing oil" but if some of it remains behind it can cause harm to the bearings. Also, dad used "RedEx" frequently while topping up the gas tank. He said it was good for "upper cylinder lubrication". However, if you cannot find "RedEx" using "Techron" once in 2-3 months will keep your fuel injectors free from deposits. Most Japanese made cars are happy with 87-89 grade fuel. In my experience they are not happy at all with 91 oct. premium.

I think most of benefits of additives one hears about from owners are are mostly psychological. It is the placebo effect. I have begun to use synthetic oil (Pennzoil) in my 1991 Honda Prelude (174000 miles) and Mobil-1 in 1994 Mazda Miata. I change my oils at 5000-5500 miles.

kmh3 · June 2000

Hi Guys!

This no longer has to do with engine additives, but it partially answers the question I posted earlier.

After lots of research, filled mostly with unsupported anecdotes (which this post is mostly as well), and one well documented post on Yahoo about gasoline chemistry, the bottom line on why my engines all developed pinging and my wife's didn't was that she uses regular and I used super (premium).

It turns out that putting higher octane gas into an engine designed for regular increases carbon deposit buildup (as well as reducing power and gas mileage, reduced power makes it seem smoother which is why it is seductive).

Engines normally achieve an equilibrium state (see the yahoo link if you can find it) after about 10,000 miles where the rate of carbon deposit buildup roughly equals the rate at which the carbon deposits flake off. Driving the engine a little harder (after it is warmed up) will increase the flake-off rate, although it reduces your has mileage.

Premium increases the rate of deposit formation and will therefore cause this steady state to be above the ping level for most engines designed for regular.

Also, all gasolines are not equal. Radically different formulations are permissable and will still obtain an "87" octane rating. This means you need to test around to find which gas works best for your car.

This is harder now since with the advent of anti-knock sensors on modern engines, pinging is no longer audible, since the onboard computer will retard the timing if pinging is detected. This will reduce power and gas mileage slightly, so one can no longer experiment around as easily to see which gas alleviates the pinging (and it takes a month or so for a new steady state to be reached).

Now we must use the regular that gives us the best gas mileage (since this is a result of using normal timing). Also, if a gas mileage drop is observed then pinging (with the onboard computers timing slowdown) may be the cause, the answer may be switching to a different brand of gasoline and waiting a month to see what happens.

I have seen posts about cars getting mysteriously low gas mileage and wonder if this might be the cause (I will post separately).

Obviously, additives to temporarily remove carbon deposits are less desirable than achieving a steady state that does not require such additives in the first place.

Keeping injectors clean can also contribute to eliminating pinging as far as I can tell.

kmh3

armtdm · June 2000

True, dirt, and other contaminants and metal wear particles can add to engine wear and synthetics cannot prevent dirt from getting into an engine. However, contrary to the comment above, extended drains do work, dirt and other wear particles can be minimized with extended drains. Only problem I have ever had was dirt and that usually occurs after 10,000 miles. Only analysis can really tell you if something is going on but in me experience one can easily go 10,000 miles without causing any wear or concerns using synthetics. NOT CASTROL!

kmh3 · June 2000

I earlier posted about "synthetic" oil breaking down at about 5,000 miles. I was using Catrol and I just learned that Castrol Syntec is not synthetic oil at all. It is just a highly refined conventional oil.

So you can reinterpret my earlier posting to mean that Syntec breaks down visibly by 5,000 miles. I am switching to mobil 1 after this discovery.

kmh3

syjet · July 2000

Are all synthetic motor oils the same? I used to use Mobil 1 but it is now 4.25 per quart and my 1988 T-bird burns about 2 quarts between oil changes. I change oil and filter about 3-4K miles. I switch to a full synthetic oil made by Proline which I purchase at Pep Boys for 2.99 a quart. The car to me runs the same but who knows what is going on in my engine. I have 173000 miles and it still runs strong, so if says it is a full synthetic motor oil how different can it be from Mobil 1?

Jim

pat455 · July 2000

For answers to your question, you can take a look at the posts in this topic:

Synthetic motor oil (Topic #543)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

marby · July 2000

Don't knock it for an old engine that burns oil it is good stuff.

marsha7 · July 2000

back in the old days, the really old days, the 70s, we used STP for engines that were wearing out, say a half-inch gap (kidding, sort of) between the piston rings and the cylinder wall. I thought of STP as axle grease that one could pour. Could almost use it as cauling compound to plug leaks in my house

dapimp637 · July 2000

Has anyone in here used the Z Max fuel treatment system? I put it in my 1995 Nissan Altima with nearly 50,000 miles on it. Since then, it has made my engine run smoother, quieter, and helped the trans to shift smoother also. Just wondering what other peoples experiences were with this product.

john111 · August 2000

Back in the '30s I worked some in the E Tex oil field. I knew this salesman that used and sold a line of oil filters called 'Luberefiners.' He used a '36Ford v8, and as well as I remember this unit used a cartridge element, and ever so often if the oil started to change color ever so minor, he would change the element, and add a quart or maybe two, after cleaning the filter case. I saw this motor after many thousands of miles, and the oil was as pretty and clear as when it was poured in. We had no additives that I remember back then except maybe 'Pyroil'. We were really proud of our motors then, and of course if one lasted over a hundred thousand miles, we thought we were doing
really good. Oil has so improved since then;

flybri · September 2000

It seems that most people believe that regular oil changes (every 3000 Miles) and using a good quality oil /oil filter is best thing you can do
for your engine.

richb6 · September 2000

I have a Corolla with 192,000 miles. It uses no oil and the oil stays clean. It has always been changed every 3,000. I use the major brand that is on sale and a fram filter. Never an additive, ever. This car still has a lot of life left. My last car went well over 200,000, same scenario. I think the key is always change the oil regularly. Synthetic couldn't hurt, but isn't really necessary.

armtdm · September 2000

The can't believe this with a Fram filter. Guess if you change the oil every 3,000 it really doesn't matter

wtd · September 2000

I keep maintenance logs on all my vehicles but I don't keep the oil/oil filter receipts. Having the receipts do not prove that you actually put the oil and filter in and on that particular car. I think that any mechanic can tell by the condition of the inside of the engine whether it had regular oil changes or not and if any mechanical breakdown is oil related. If the insides are very dirty or sludged up, they probably didn't change the oil often enough. If pretty clean then it probably had regular changes.

gvmelbrty · September 2000

A couple years back, my brother-inlaw's '94 Ford turbo diesel had engine problems. We decided to call the local fire/ambulance department to see if any of their diesel mechanics did work on the side. The mechanic we spoke to recommended someone at a private ambulance company (with a fleet of Ford diesels). We've been using this guy since then, and he's really been the most thorough, meticulous, and knowledgeable mechanic I've had the benefit of knowing (he's fixing up my '69 Camaro this week).

Anyway, he turned us on to Militec two years ago. When he said he wanted to add it to the truck, I couldn't believe he had fallen for a bogus "engine additive," and I let him have a piece of my mind - in a nice way

. But he stuck to his guns.

He's been using it in his fleet of ambulances for the past seven years. These trucks are driven in dusty, west Texas heat and abused in the worst way, each averaging about 60-70k miles-a-year (not to mention idling hours). He said the severity and frequency of general engine/valve/transmission/air conditioning failures in his fleet has dropped dramatically since using Militec. He said he was skeptical at first too, but now he puts the stuff in everything - engine, transmission (auto and manual), A/C compressors and differential.

So far my brother-inlaw says he has noticed about a 1-2mph improvement in gas mileage, easier starts, smoother trans shifts and a seat-of-the-pants feeling of increased engine power.

I know, it sounds like all the typical too good to be true claims we've all heard - but I'm just telling you what I know. I am very much in the "engine additives are snake oil" camp myself. And the advice given here to regularly change oil & filter with an SJ-rated oil and top-quality filter is probably all any of us need to do to extend the life of our motors. But for some heavy-duty users, Militec might be worth a look. (My brother-inlaw will put 60k on his truck this year.)

And by the way, the stuff is expensive! $175 a gallon - but that will last you quite a while.

http://www.militec1.com/automotive.htm

-gvmelbrty

siriusgirl · September 2000

After reading these posts, I asked my dealer today about additives and synthetic oil. My dealer said they use additives every time I bring it in for scheduled service! (It's Orr Acura in Shreveport, LA) The person I talked to said they didn't believe additives worked until they actually saw the difference in old engines with and without. I didn't ask what brand they use. Plus, the dealer said synthetic oil is definitely recommended for use in vehicles with high mileage.

cutehumor · October 2000

I have a 1992 mitsubishi mirage, 4 door, 1.5 L, 4 speed auto with 90 k on it, it started burning oil around 87k. It happened pretty suddenly. I just checked the dipstick, and the oil is on the minnimum mark, and I haven't reached the 3k interval to change it. I've only driven 2400 miles out of 3000 miles. I use 4 quarts of quaker state oil (not synthetic)in my car when I change it. what can I do to stop my car from burning oil? will a change from conventional oil to synthetic oil hurt my car since it has 90k miles on it? (I heard synthetic oil is better) It never burned oil since I have owned the car for two years now, but it has been a real hot summer in Memphis this year where temperatures have reached 105 degrees for almost two weeks, and heat indexes above that.(an explanation for the burning oil maybe?) I know that once a car starts burning oil it's too late, but I want to delay it for a couple of years until I'm done with school. I'm a poor college student, and I can't afford to buy a new car. If anyone could give me some advice, I would greatly appreciated. --Michael

ccotenj · October 2000

it's not completely unusual for cars to burn a quart of oil every 3k. as a matter of fact, it's pretty normal for some. you don't say how long this has been going on.

check it regularly, keep it filled... try not to panic... a switch to syn wouldn't *hurt* (i'm a dedicated syn user myself), you may experience some leakage due to old gaskets with syn...

additives are snake oil... the best proof of that is that major oil manufacturers don't put it in their addpack and advertise the heck out of it...

-Chris

arjay1 · October 2000

This has been mentioned before. Even if you are adding a quart of oil every 1,000 miles that is only 5 quarts between 5,000 mile oil changes. That adds about $7 between oil changes, hardly a big expense. I am a synthetic fan but would not worry about switching to it on a limited students budget. I would use a name brand oil and extend your drain intervals to 5,000 miles. You are adding clean oil fairly regularly now.
If you want, and this depends on your climate, you can switch to a straight grade of oil. On older engines that burn oil you can switch to a straight SAE 30 weight of oil. This oil will be pretty thick in the Winter if you are in a cold climate and that could cause problems. If you are in a moderate climate it may help to reduce the burning do to being thicker.

oldharry · October 2000

Check your pcv valve. If it started burning oil suddenly, it is not likely engine wear, but something else. A pcv valve that is clogged will put oil into the air cleaner, one that is stuck open will cause it to just disappear. Also check for vacuum at the hose to the pcv.

Water is a great additive for engines. Drive around on a rainy day, and the high humidity will remove a lot of carbon from your engine. Adding water manually is not recommended.

Harry

baiao · October 2000

I have the 99 Ford EXPEDITION with the 5.4L engine.
During cold starts the engine knocks. The Ford dealer changed the fan clutch and belt. No help.
Now Ford says they have several reports of engine knocks and recommend replacing the engine with a new and improved model.. WOW!!Has anyone heard of this service bulletin?

bobs5 · October 2000

check out the message board at www.f150online.com do a search for "piston slap".

sobright1 · October 2000

Like yourself I live in the Memphis area, know about the heat and humidity, and had a similar problem burining oil in my 1990 Gallant which I sadly wrecked at 183k miles. In my case, when I went in for an oil change at around 110k miles, suddenly no oil was touching the stick - pretty scary. My problem was worn valve guide seals, not a particularly unusual cause of excessive oil consumption. I typically avoid dealers but in this case I strongly recommend Rusty, a highly certified and experienced mechanic, at Gossett Mitsubishi on Covington Pike.

vlkohanski · November 2000

OK, it's probably already been cleared up in one of the hundreds of posts here, but I'm late on the scene here. Specifically, what does your 455 stand for?

pat455 · November 2000

My IQ?

;->

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

vlkohanski · November 2000

Oh, a wise guy, eh? Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk

ccotenj · November 2000

no, that would be 4.55

-Chris

pat455 · November 2000

Oh, I see, you probably meant 45.5, just a misplaced decimal, no problem, I forgive you.

:-)

Pat

quickshift · November 2000

I was a cynic just like you til I tried Motor UP oil treatment in my Accent before it hit 50K. It runs quiet and gets better gas mileage. I saw the infocommerical and its claims. For older vehicles, easier starting and less oil comsumption.

surrfurtom · November 2000

Anyone have experience with additives that supposedly expand engine seals and stop oil leaks?

I have a 95 Subaru that has just begun leaking oil and am considering trying one before doing an engine teardown. Thanks.

wolf42788 · December 2000

I have seen too many vehicles go over 200000 miles and use no additives. Almost every vehicle my parents owned went 200000 plus. I belive that regular oil changes are the best thing you can do for your car. I have never ever needed to use an additive. Beware of using injector cleaners. My friend ran some through, yes his saturn ran better for awhile, then he had starting trouble, he had to have all 4 injectors replaced. Just a fair warning.

crashton6 · December 2000

I think you additive users may need to read this.
www.geocities.com/motorcity/2195/snakeoil.html#top Some interesting reading.

kareski · December 2000

I have been changing oil in all my cars since I was a pup. Providing that a name brand is used and changed often with filter the engine will last. For all my cars when the engine goes past 50K I add a can of Restore every other oil change. This not only makes the cars run smoother but also with pep and better gas mileage. When I blew the head gasket in my 626 I was surprised how smooth the walls were and tight rings for an engine with 188,000. My Toyota now has 204,000 does not burn oil, has more pep than the new cars and still gets 35/42. Whatever you do, do not use an engine cleaner in an older car. I used Risland to clean inside my engine. It did as advertised. It cleaned all deposits around my rings and cleaned the walls so well that I was blowing a quart of oil every 500 miles. This was on a Honda accord with 70K when I brought it used.

adc100 · December 2000

I think you got a lot of good advice. Just a question? Is it leaking it or burning it? If your oil is turning darker faster, perhaps you got a broken ring. If this is the case, you might want to go with your regular non syn oil (if syn is too much money) You could add a quart of Mobil 1 15W 50. I realize you will then have a thicker oil, but the superior properties will help negate that effect. Just a thought.

Al

occupant1 · December 2000

I'll be the fourth person to ask about ZMax and I will be trying it in the '97 Accent with 95K I just bought. Mainly because of the transmission additive. This shifter has a long throw and the clutch lets in very close to the floor. I'll want it to shift as fast and smooth as it can because I have heard Hyundai manuals can rip out synchros quickly. I already ground fourth once on the way home yesterday so I hope I haven't ruined that gear yet. The ZMax system includes a gas additive and also an oil additive. What I wonder is about that microlubrication they talk about. It's the same stuff as the Avblend used in aircraft. I'd like to find out if it really helps in aircraft then will it help a car? I'll be using this car for courier work and 3000 is too soon to change...that puts me at 2-3 weeks. I'll just change it once a month at about 5000 miles. I don't know yet if it burns oil but the dipstick is at the full mark after the last oil change (3700 miles ago when the car was still in the hands of the last owner.

pepper32 · December 2000

I read on another web site if Techron fuel cleaner is used it should be added just before a scheduled oil change. The writer stated that the Techron would clean the fuel system and wash the carbon down into the oil. Any opinions?

lokki · January 2001

I just got my Acura back from its 30K service
and the Dealer added "Krex Graphite Super Lubricant" and "Krex Fuel System Treatment". The dealer has gone as far as having this printed into the "What we do" listing, so it would seem that it's something that they have been routinely doing for awhile. I have no idea if Acura recommends this or if it's just something that this particular dealer does.

Anyhow, anybody ever heard of Krex?
Any opinions on "graphite super lubricant?" Since there's also the Krex fuel system treatment, I'm assuming they dumped a bunch of graphite in my oil.....

bottgers · January 2001

I've read many lab studies testing various different types of lubricants, including Slick 50, Duralube, and Prolong, as well as Synthetic and dino motor oils. While they all had somewhat varying opinions, they all agreed on a few things.

None of the engine treatment products such as Slick 50, Duralube, Prolong, or any of the countless others, offer any benefits to your engine whatsoever. In fact, they go as far as to say that some may even damage your engine by clogging up your oil filter. Stay away from them, they're a waste of money.

The best protection you can give your engine is to use nothing but full synthetic motor oil. No additives, no dino, and no synthetic blends. They also said that none of the synthetic blends contain more than 10% synthetic. Another waste of money.

g1994sts · January 2001

I agree with bottgers except for Z-MAX products, I think it really works. Unlike most engine additives like slick-50 which contain PTFE, that stuff is micronized teflon wax, the same crap thats in your non-stick skillet. In my opinion that would only clog your oil filter. Talk about marketing and laughing all the way to bank, I seem to remember It was priced at $50.00 for 1 treatment, I believe It's about $15.00 now.

My Cadillac STS has the on board MPG computer and I get exactly what Z-MAX claims, an increase of 10% better gas mileage. Before using this product The car was getting exactly an average of 18.5 MPG... Now I'm getting 20.5 MPG. and I only put 1/2 the bottle, and thats into 7.5 quarts of oil, the other 1/2 will go in at the next 3,000 mile oil change. I think I'ts better this way instead of using it all up at once, only to be flushed out at the next oil change.

This benefit would only indicate there is less resistance to all the moving parts and providing less wear and tear to your engine.

occupant1 · January 2001

if you're still checking this board, or anyone else who knows anything about the stuff...

I'm not thrilled about buying the thing over the phone only to wait several weeks to get it. One of the guys touting it in the commercial has a Precision Tune uniform on and maybe those shops can add ZMax. I haven't seen one in Dallas-Fort Worth but I really haven't been actively looking.

Also, I thought K-Mart sold it but I looked and they have Prolong but not ZMax. Wal-Mart doesn't have it. Neither do most of the auto parts stores I've been to. Has anyone seen the stuff on store shelves? The lady on the phone said she didn't know of any but that she didn't mean to say they weren't available somewhere other than off of TV.

The Accent I am driving now I have had for 6,000 miles. It now has almost 101K. I changed the oil at 97K and I just had to add a quart so at least it is not using a lot of oil. I think a quart in 3500 miles is perfectly normal, considering some of the cars I have owned have used a quart of oil every tank of gas or even MORE frequently. I will probably not use anything except oil in this car but I am thinking of buying a new 2000/2001 Protege or maybe another Accent or even a Suzuki Swift. Depends on what I can afford payment-wise.

spectre3 · January 2001

autozone auto parts stores sells zmax, in indiana at least.

g1994sts · January 2001

I'm from New Jersey, R&S Strauss auto parts and BJ's wholesale club are two vendors I know who sell Z-MAX. BJ's price is $34.95 and is actually less expensive than getting it direct from Z-MAX.

I like the combination fuel system and oil treatment to help reduce carbon build up. Anybody can tell you they have driven their cars for very high mileage and never used engine additives, so have I. I just think that today's sophisticated multi valve, multi everything need a little help to stay young.

I have read many reports about Cadillac's North star engines exhibiting severe oil usage, mine doesn't burn a drop since I bought the car 6 months ago, I want to keep It that way.

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