New Battery dies after a few days. Subaru cannot find problem

reinstein · December 2014

Hi,
For the 3rd time this winter I have been unable to start my SUBARU IMPREZA because of Dead battery. Usually it is after I have not driven for 3 - 5 days. Each time it is jump started (AAA) and I have driven it to the local Subaru Service Center. They have tested and analyzed battery and charging system and find nothing wrong!!! (Battery was replaced last March). They say drain measured very low (3mA?).

One ?clue: when jumper cables are hooked and powered up to start car, you can hear the CD changer trying to find a CD or something. But there are no CDs and we never leave it on. I mention this to the Service manager and he says that the measured battery drain is too low for that to be the problem.

Help?
Advice?

Anyone at Subaru I can turn to next? District manager? We need a reliable car and thought Subaru was it.

Thanks

Larry

thecardoc3 · December 2014

If they measured only a 3ma drain when they checked this over then at that time there was nothing for them to find. 3ma is an acceptable, if not perfectly normal amount of current that would be flowing through the different computers that require a keep alive memory.

The second issue is having a problem like this doesn't make the measure of whether a car is reliable or not, and it doesn't reflect on the capabilities or diligence of the shop and the technician. The work truly can just be more difficult than many want to portrait it and some of the issues that techs have to solve like yours take a solid game plan and a very disciplined approach.

The sound of the CD changer cycling would get my attention if I was going out to look at this, but when we consider the system being completely drained that doesn't equal being an answer. Remember the keep alive memories? That could simply be the CD changer re-learning it's position when it gets powered back up.

The routine to deal with this now is going to require a longer stay in the shop. The issue is clearly random in nature and its going to take a patient approach. The repeated issue where it is dead after three to five days of sitting suggests something turns on/off on its own so that there is a drain that hasn't been occurring when the tech made the routine tests. The tech is going to have to connect test equipment and keep checking this periodically and be ready to react when the drain occurs.

One note. The consumers have largely been kept in the dark about just what happens for the techs that tackle these kinds of problems. 90% of the time that the tech invests he/she does not get paid for. Keep that in mind when they do come up with an answer for you.

reinstein · December 2014

Thanks for your reply. I was about to lose my patience but after reading your reply I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Some of my frustration is because I don't know if he is following a logical process of elimination. For example the tech also believes the CD changer symptom is a red herring and that it may be a normal part of the "re-learning" process. He says he is 99% certain. What is frustrating is that this should not be a matter of belief. Shouldn't he be able to call Subaru engineering resources to get the answer? Or, take another car on his lot and try the experiment to see if it behaves similarly.?

Is there a central or National Subaru service line that I can consult to see if this problem has been reported before? Is there such a data base?

Otherwise if they cannot find this (I have already been without a car for an entire week) then what choices am I left with?

Anyone?

thecardoc3 · December 2014

reinstein said:
What is frustrating is that this should not be a matter of belief. Shouldn't he be able to call Subaru engineering resources to get the answer? Or, take another car on his lot and try the experiment to see if it behaves similarly.?

To answer your questions, easy one first. It would be possible to see if another CD player does relearn when the vehicle is depowered, and it would not be a surprise if it does because it is a common function.

The second part, just call someone and they can tell them what is wrong. For all of the "just google it" answers out there the work usually isn't that simple. There are vehicles that do experience pattern failures and the manufacturers once they have enough reports of a given symptom and what the typical repair happens to be will release a TSB (technical service bulletin) about it. Now just because there is a TSB about a given symptom that does not mean that it will be the fix for every car. The TSB will be a fix for some of the cars with a given symptom. The ones the TSB doesn't work on still come down to the technician figuring the problem out.

Nobody knows what is wrong with your car, and what was wrong with any other car really doesn't have any correlation to yours. I've done thousands of diagnostics like this, with the one-off's being more than half of them. (I always got the problem child's)

I talk about this all of the time and nobody ever takes what I'm going to say here and does anything with this information. By now your car is a come-back for the shop and the technician. Diagnostic routines do not pay the technicians correctly to deal with problems like your car's the first time, then when its a comeback the technician usually won't be paid at all. He/she may spend a dozen hours with this over a week or two to finally catch the issue while it is occurring and prove what is going on so that it can be fixed. This practice is something that many if they comment at all basically say that it isn't their problem, but that practice takes people who have the talent and skills to efficiently solve you car's issue and drives them out of the automobile repair trade because they cannot earn a decent living doing it. That's why you are struggling to get this fixed, the work is that hard and its totally thank-less. (I've had cars like this that once solved got me "0's" on the CSI score cards) Meanwhile, for the time that would be invested to fix your car, a technician with lesser skills will make one and a half times as many hours as they were on the clock because he/she would be doing easier better paying work. For me and techs like me, your car would just be another day (week?) in the office that we would fix while overlapping other jobs so that we had a chance to still get some kind of a paycheck.

Have you lost your patience yet? This is what is all going on while the tech has to take a patient, disciplined approach to put this problem to bed, all the while knowing doing so is working against them putting supper on the table for their kids.

reinstein · December 2014

I do not disagree with what you are saying ... from the Technicians point of view. However from the customer's point of view, and likely the sales manager's point of view ... it is about reputation and loyalty.

It should not be the customer's problem whether the service tech is properly rewarded. That is between him and the manager. I purchase a new car and stay loyal to the dealer's service department and when I want another car i will go back to the same dealer .... if I am treated well and my problems are solved. That is the sales-service-loyalty- cycle. It is not about the one problem that may be difficult to solve. It is all the easy service appointments that should be able to balance out that difficult one.

thecardoc3 · December 2014

reinstein said:
I do not disagree with what you are saying ... from the Technicians point of view. However from the customer's point of view, and likely the sales manager's point of view ... it is about reputation and loyalty.

It should not be the customer's problem whether the service tech is properly rewarded. That is between him and the manager. I purchase a new car and stay loyal to the dealer's service department and when I want another car i will go back to the same dealer .... if I am treated well and my problems are solved. That is the sales-service-loyalty- cycle. It is not about the one problem that may be difficult to solve. It is all the easy service appointments that should be able to balance out that difficult one.

I hope everyone that comes across this thread reads what you wrote here you are correct from the customers point of view and if everything else was working to your expectations you would not be encountering the problem you have with your car. It's the old which came first question, the chicken or the egg. The answer comes down to who cares, without both you won't have any.
You point out that with all of the easy appointments its supposed to balance out. How many threads are right here in this very forum complaining about pricing and overselling from the shops? The reason I ever came here the first time was because of a story about the overselling and everyone involved with the story laid all of the blame on the techs and advisors. Did you know they even made sure to do some revisits where the employee's involved had been let go and new ones hired while portraying the management as innocent victims. Meanwhile the technicians career path is broken, and has been for decades so the shops are struggling to find people who would make easy work of the problem that your car has. They pressure the techs that they do have to sell services, consumers complain about that, and in the end the tech has to be replaced because nobody is ready to stop doing it this way. The one argument that often comes up is "If there is a shortage of qualified technicians, where are all the broken cars that aren't getting fixed?"

New Battery dies after a few days. Subaru cannot find problem

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