P0457, P0456 Evap Control System Leak

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  thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,747

  June 2015

  libertyman1 said:

  I went to the dealer the first time and they said it was a bad ESIM assembly. I replaced it and the gas cap with OEM factory parts and it did not fix the problem.

  Some details would help. Did they do the diagnostics and then you replaced the part? What did they charge for the diagnostics and how much time did that relate to? ESIM failures are very common, and they are simple to diagnose. How long were the symptoms occurring prior to having the diagnostics performed?

  libertyman1 said:

  I went back to the dealer and found the true cause on the second visit. The wire was coroded where where the wiring harness clips into the charcoal canister adjacent to where the ESIM is located.

  It never fails that when a second problem is found that it gets labeled as "The Problem", and suddenly there is no value associated to what may well have been a very legitimate problem too.

  libertyman1 said:

  I would have found it my self IF I had taken the time to carefully check the wiring harness at the connector clip.

  Sounds like a tech had to take that time and for the "now for the rest of the story" part of this and a question needs to be asked. Was the same technician assigned to look at this again? Was the tech paid for his/her time to do so? Usually nobody wants to address these questions. Failing to address these issues are why it is much more difficult to find a technician who takes a disciplined approach when performing diagnostics so that a possible secondary issue like this doesn't get overlooked. Meanwhile consumerism has even campaigned against shops that charge correctly and pay the techs reasonably for learning to be that disciplined. That has led to a job for the technicians where they typically aren't paid enough up front to really approach diagnostics correctly and are expected to work for free when the occasional trap does catch them. Much like your statement that "you could have found it if"... Hindsight isn't always as perfect as some would like to preach.

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  libertyman1 Member Posts: 4

  June 2015

  Yes the dealer did the diagnosis and I then replaced the ESIM myself. I replaced the gas cap myself with the Mopar OEM part before even getting it diagnosed. I went to the dealer yesterday and they did the correct diagnosis of the bad wire at the sensor that clips on to the charcoal canister. They also found the open circuit of the wiring harness going to the wheel sensor. I am trying to get the manager to give me the $50.00 I spent for the incorrect diagnosis off of the quoted price of $279.00 to fix both issues. I would like to buy my own hand held scan tool device but a good one costs about $800 OTC brand at Summit Racing.
  I could replace the parts now myself but I don't want to burn the bridge with the dealer since I already don't give them much work. I go there for oil changes and they tell me about issues with my Jeep and most of the time I just fix the simple stuff myself. This one was harder to diagnose but I should have just looked over the wiring more carefully because it was green with corrosion at the connection clip. I hate the brine they use on the roads in Northern Ohio, it eats up the cars in as little as three years.

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  libertyman1 Member Posts: 4

  June 2015

  No the ESIM was not the issue because it never turned off the trouble code after replacing it with the correct part. You sound like your defending the first tech that did a poor job of diagnosing the issue the first time. I never worked as a tech for a dealer. I also hear it is a demanding job that can pay very well. They deserve what they earn but I should have a choice to replace the part myself. If the issue is a $10 part and takes five minutes to replace and only takes 15 minutes to diagnose with the scan tool they I will do it myself. They should still be giving the correct diagnosis. I went to vocational automotive school with the former shop manager so the new manager will probably give me a break in the end.

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  thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,747

  June 2015

  There is a point to be made without defending anybody. So you did replace it yourself, that's fine. Can you answer the rest of the questions? What did you pay for the diagnostics, each time?

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  thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,747

  June 2015

  $50 for the diagnostics? Sheesh...That explains it.
  At that price the tech had about eighteen minutes to figure out the problem, and it's no where near as simple to do as some would like to believe. For one thing, a professional level tool can command the PCM to run a self test on the evaporative system and a solid diagnostic and repair routine would have the tech run that test, prove that the car has presented with a live problem, and then repeat the test while actively testing the ESIM manually. That routine would find the wiring issue the first time whether it really was the only fault or not. The time required to run the tests like this is going to be some twenty-five to thirty minutes. Since they don't get paid enough time to test completely, they get trained to risk short-cutting the diagnostics. From there when the tech does the repair, then they should run the test again and prove that the car was in fact repaired. That time is also supposed to be sold as a portion of the diagnostic time.
  
  So have you put the old ESIM back on the truck and proven that it is in fact OK? If not understand that it may take a week or two to turn the light back on if it isn't.

  libertyman1 said:

  They also found the open circuit of the wiring harness going to the wheel sensor. I am trying to get the manager to give me the $50.00 I spent for the incorrect diagnosis off of the quoted price of $279.00 to fix both issues. I would like to buy my own hand held scan tool device but a good one costs about $800 OTC brand at Summit Racing.

  At $800, it's not a good one. It might be enough to handle DIY, but will actually fall well short of what a shop needs to assist in diagnostics as much as 90% of the time. Professional level tools run $4000 and up (aftermarket tools) and require updates every six months to a year that consume another $1000 a year on average. The factory tools that Chrysler uses cost $6000 for the DRBIII, $6500 for the StarScan, or StarMobile, $7000 for the WiTech and Chrysler even has another new tool coming out.

  libertyman1 said:

  
  I could replace the parts now myself but I don't want to burn the bridge with the dealer since I already don't give them much work. I go there for oil changes and they tell me about issues with my Jeep and most of the time I just fix the simple stuff myself. This one was harder to diagnose but I should have just looked over the wiring more carefully because it was green with corrosion at the connection clip. I hate the brine they use on the roads in Northern Ohio, it eats up the cars in as little as three years.

  Western Pa. is just as bad when it comes to the road salt destroying the cars. Time and again we see the perception that diagnosing the bad wire once it has been located was something that should have not taken any talent or effort at all. If that was really the case then you should have seen it when you replaced the ESIM. The reality is that it isn't usually that simple and that's why those things do get missed. It's highly likely this was assigned to a more senior technician for the re-check and if the shop didn't pay him/her for their time then you should get your money back. I used to be that technician who got to fix the come-backs with the promise that some gravy work would be sent my way to "make-up" the time.
  
  
  
  

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