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Check Engine light

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  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    allchecks,

    Here is an article that may help you.

    So you have an EGR code


    richez2000,

    Yes, it is a normal reaction to the cleaner. Although, why did you have them cleaned in the first place?

    Most often, there is no need for the cleaning, unless there is an underlying problem.

    As was said, usually what happens is the chemicals get onto the O2 sensor and the misfire usually gets picked up on the computer and the light comes on. If the light does not go off with in 50 miles or about 10 restarts, there may be another problem.

  • soobrietysoobriety Member Posts: 6
    Here's the latest on my van-

    Upon inspection by an independent mechanic (whom I trust) it was found that my 98 Transport had the wrong size spark plugs in it.
    I took it to the dealer and explained all my problems- transmission, fuel sensor, horn fuse that blows every time I use the horn (literally- I replace it and can use it once and then have to replace it again) etc. and of course the hole in my gas tank caused by the catalytic converter.
    The dealer says that the fuel injectors were mucked up and were not seating properly which allowed raw gas into the converter, etc and that is what caused the eventual hole in my gas tank. He said he'd split the cost of replacing them, which they claim to be an $800 job.

    I asked that while they were waiting for the fuel injectors to arrive, (because they had to order them don't you know) they replace the spark plugs with the correct size and the service tech says, well if you want to...
    Arrgh! I don't know a whole lot about cars, but I thought having the right sized spark plugs was kinda important. Please any advice on this would be helpful. Thanks
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    I'm still trying to figure out the catalytic converter putting a hole in the gas tank??

    I am utterly clueless.
  • nadavinadavi Member Posts: 14
    can I read the code without special tool? if yes - how?
  • lbthedoglbthedog Member Posts: 198
    I've heard of convertors "getting cherry" because of misfires but never melting a gas tank. Especially since the convertor is a couple feet ahead and over to the right side of the floor on a Transport. Wrong size spark plugs? I suppose they were the wrong color too. The front plugs are a snap but the rears are a pain. A 98 Transport shouldn't need plugs until 100k anyway. Why'd they get changed the first time? If a dealer will fix all the stuff that's supposedly screwed-up for $800, you're getting off real cheap. Some parts of this story don't really make a great of sense.
  • shengli66shengli66 Member Posts: 2
    THe Check Engline LIght (CEL) turned on a couple of days back. The dealer told me it could be the loose gas tank cap. While my cap was not loose. A month ago I put some spray underneath my car to avoid rust near the exhaust connectors. Wonder if that clog something and cause the CEL to turn on. Has anybody had similar experience? ANy input will be appreciated.
  • fangio2fangio2 Member Posts: 214
    goes off and on .This started at about 100,000 miles.He changed his gas cap and checked his air filter.Is this just a reminder for 100,000 mile service or what?
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    No, the check engine light is not a maintenance reminder light.

    It ONLY comes on when there is a fault in the system. It will go out when the fault is no onger detected. Usually, if it is a hard fault, it will store the trouble codes.

    When the check engine light is on, the trouble code can be retrieved by following the instructions on this page.
  • tanjayetanjaye Member Posts: 5
    ...having just reviewed the 550+ messages here (not all in detail)!


    Has anyone used or reviewed any of the PalmOS based OBDII scanners/tools? Specifically I would be interested in one compatible with the Handspring Visor series. And comments or recommendations?


    For 0patience (or anyone else) you mentioned a few months ago you were reviewing a PC based scanner described at http://www.obd-2.com/index.html , do you have any follow-up to this?


    I have a 98.5 Audi A4 in which I had to replace the battery recently. Since connecting the new battery the MIL light has been on but the car runs fine. The OBD codes can be accessed via the climate control LED display ("88.8" format), 76 values can be retrieved. The first of these is supposed to be a Diagnostic Trouble Code. "00.0" reportedly means "No malfunction present", but my display shows simply ".0" and there are no other DTCs that end in ".0" Anyone familiar with Audi/VW diagnostics? Comments?


    Finally, if one were to disconnect the battery for an adequate length of time, which successfully extinguishes the MIL, my understanding is that the DTC should still remain stored. Does the code remain stored until formally cleared, regardless of whether the malfunction has resolved? Or will it self clear? If the MIL is reset and the code is still stored, or malfunction still exists, will the MIL reactivate?


    Regards,

    DJW

  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    Haven't looked at the Palm pilot scan options, because alot of the mechanics said they weren't interested in them, because of their limited abilities.


    One of our guys did a review on that scan program, you can view it on this page.


    I am not sure how the Audi is set up for the code retrieval, so I am afraid I am not much help there.

    Normally, when the fault is no longer there, the MIL light goes out. And if it doesn't detect the fault again for so many restarts (Some are about 50 restarts), the code clears. A high dollar scanner will be able to retrieve "inactive" codes history that are normally not accessible with regular scanners. But if the code is inactive, the only time that info is useful is on an intermittent problem. If the light is on solid, there is a fault.

  • tanjayetanjaye Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for your response, I found the review at batauto.com after I posted my message.

    I believe the codes I described for my Audi are not specifically OBD codes, but some of the similar information in proprietary format. But I could be wrong...

    DJW
  • q45manq45man Member Posts: 416
    All post OBD2 cars have extra codes that are not retrievable with generic scanners. This is an attempt by manufacturers to placate dealers who want to discourage independents from repairing cars.
    This is a big concern today since only dealers [or sneeks like us ] can get around it and secure all the software and computer hardware necessary to diagnose [auxillary non engine items] on cars like Lexus and Infiniti.
  • smorris517smorris517 Member Posts: 3
    I have 106K miles on my vehicle and the light just came on today. Most of the discussions relate to a poor O2 sensor. Is there a reset in an accessible locatin or should I have the sensors replaced. Other chats indicate faulty EGR valves. Help ?
  • hbe2hbe2 Member Posts: 4
    My 1996 Maxima SE was in a front end collision a few weeks ago and when I got it back the "check engine" light was. I let in go for a few days and finally took it to the dealer (I did make sure the gas cap was tight). The dealer said two 02 sensors needed to be replaced (codes P0150 & P0130). I haven't tried disconnecting the battery yet but I will this weekend. I also know that the body shop replaced the battery. I will make sure that it is the correct one. If the 02 sensors are indeed faulty, is this some thing that I would be able to do. I do what ever I can on my house, boat & car my self, so I am fairly handy with tools. Thanks.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    The diagnostic trouble codes you listed do not indicate O2 sensor failure. They are defined as:

    PO130 = O2 sensor CIRCUIT malfunction (bank 1, sensor 1)
    PO150 = O2 sensor CIRCUIT malfunction (bank 2, sensor 1)

    The engine control module does not have the capability of determining that the sensors are defective. What it can determine is that it's reading an out of range signal from the sensor CIRCUITS. This includes the sensors and all associated wiring, connectors, etc. Considering your car was in a frontal collision I'd suggest there's now a wiring problem, especially if the CEL wasn't on prior to the collision. It'd be pretty coincidental that both sensors failed simultaneously, right after the collision (unless both received mechanical damage from the impact). I'd suggest that the shop which did the original repairs should have the sensors AND wiring checked. There should be some provision for hidden damage in the insurance claim.
  • hbe2hbe2 Member Posts: 4
    Being new to Town Hall, I went to the section that I saw first, Nissan Maxima problems. Later in the day I saw "Check Engine" light and thought this would be better, especially after reading about 300 of the posts. Anyway, thanks for the very quick reply. I am getting in touch with the body shop today to get their input. I'll probably even fax them your reply along with my original question. I know the body shop disconnected the battery, radiator fans and who knows what else, so maybe the wiring harness is in question. Probably the Nissan repair shop knows that its a simple solution but taking me for a ride. I will let you know the outcome. Again, thanks for the advise.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Good luck with it. Let us know how you make out.
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    just to share my experience with "check engine" light.

    in my old '89 caravan, bloody lights comes on for no reason, no performance effect, nothing at all. even passed emissions test with flying marks! got sick and tired of this light, i unplugged the bloody bulb and light never comes on anymore! :)

    of course i don't recommend doing this to newer cars. if it's an older car and you have no performance probs, passed emissions test, etc. then just pull that bulb out!

    just my 2 cents! :)
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    That could be expensive advice, depending on the reason for the CEL. There's always a reason for it to illuminate. To determine the cause, try here and click the "Technical - Trouble Codes" drop down menu at the right upper area of the screen:

    http://www.batauto.com/cgi-bin/Forum/db_TalkToMeV2.cgi?forum_name=domestics
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    yes it can be an expensive advice and thats why i dont recommend doing it to new cars. i did it coz i could care less for that POS (piece of sh***) caravan i had before and it was old. it was such a piece of crap! engine had to be rebuilt twice with less than 80,000kms. on it!
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    I'm still laughing. I've had cars like that. Thanks for the morning chuckle. :o)
  • hbe2hbe2 Member Posts: 4
    just an update on 02 sensors on maxima in accident
    Called body shop and they said not their problem so I called my insurance. They said call back body shop and make an appointment for my car and the insurance company so they could look at it. Called back my insurance and they said fax them the bill and the description of the problem from the Nissan dealer. Faxed it to them and they called back to say they will send me a check for the estimated repair of the 02 sensors and also for the money I had to pay upfront for Nissan to check the car out. Received check the other day ($550). Meanwhile somewhere in this forum, I read to disconnect the battery for a few hours. I did this about one week ago and so far the check engine light has not come back on. The car is running good and gas mileage is still good. I'll still wait awhile though before I go and spend the money else where.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Glad to hear you got it sorted out. What was the final verdict as to the cause of the CEL?
  • gibbergibber Member Posts: 41
    I have a 1999 Mazda Protege, running rough(sometimes), with the "engine" light on. Took it to the dealer who says it is the "coil pack" and the plug wires, to the tune of $415. Does this make sense?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Yes, unfortunately. When wires start breaking down they can cause damage to the coils. Usually sets a flashing CEL (indicates more serious problem detected than if steady CEL), and sets code P0300, multiple random engine misfire. Could be worse, you could have driven it long enough with raw fuel going into the exhaust system and catalytic converter that the cat melted down, a not uncommon problem. Or a GM where bad coils have a habit of spiking the ignition control module they're mounted on.
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,397
    Well, it finally came on. It's not the gas cap, I've triple checked it. I've got about 1.5k miles to go until the next service, at 22.5k. When I called the Service Manager, he said, since I was having no other performance problems, I could just wait until the next service if I didn't mind the light, or I could bring it in now. Would appreciate your experiences, and are there any problems in waiting, or should the C70 be taken in now? Thanks, Tmart
  • belgameesbelgamees Member Posts: 3
    I've been having serious backfires in the intake manifold lately. My car is a 3.3L v6 and 102000Mi. This was the first time I checked my CEL light. I had to put a bulb in because it was removed. I had codes 12/33/66/51/25/21/55.
    I changed the O² sensor what made disappear all the codes - for about one day. I still have code 51. I checked the egr and I think it works, looks very clean (my car runs on liquified petroleum gas)I did notice recently I seem to loose coolant (I can visualy see it all over the engine compartiment) When I started my car yesterday the cooling hose coming from the intake manifold was very hot (it leaked where the hose goes at the radiator and when I fastened it tighter very hot steamy water escaped for a moment) It seemed strange to me that when I screwed the radiator cap off the water was still cold overthere. The temperature gage in the car never indicates my car is overheating.

    Does anyone have any clue why I have these explosions in my intake manifold, could the cooling of that intake manifold be the problem ?

    thx
  • jgmilbergjgmilberg Member Posts: 872
    You forgot to mention the year of the Caravan.

    I would check the ignition timing, if thats good, you may have a bad timing belt, and it just skipped a few teeth, not enough to stop the motor from running but enough to make it backfire. 90% of the time if backfireing just starts with no warning signs prior it is a sign the belt is going bad.

    My first guess would be to make sure the timing belt is good, if you have not changed it yet, with your mileage it's due for it any ways. Better to do it now than have it snap and strand you.

    Keep us informed on what you find out.
  • fritz1224fritz1224 Member Posts: 398
    New testing method for 96 and later cars will be connecting to the onboard computer, not exhaust tailpipe testing. I have heard that using this new method could reveal problems the emission people can require to be addressed even though the CEL is not lit. Can this be true? I guess if the EPA has more stringent parameters for the various systems than what was programmed by the manufacturer, there's something fishy going on.
    Your car runs great, no CEL and yet you still have to spend money for the mystery problems.
    This is like money from heaven for those techs whose main goal is raking in the dough.
  • scottygmc4x4scottygmc4x4 Member Posts: 20
    Has anyone been having problems with the 2.2 engine. My car has a engine noise when cold
    below 30 F. To me it sounds like piston slap and it go's away when the engine heats up to
    around 150 F. Also whats does the check engine light and the gas cap have in common?????
    this car has 45,000 on it and I have been useing Mobil 1 5w30.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    It verifies the EEC (evaporative emission control) system. When the engine's shut off, fuel vapours from the gas tank are absorbed into the media of the charcoal cannister to prevent the release of hydrocarbons (a major contributor to photechemical smog) into the atmosphere. When the engine's started, a vacuum is placed on the system to ensure it's integrity. If the system won't hold vacuum for a given time span the ECM flags the fault and sets the check engine light. The system can't hold vacuum if the gas cap's loose.
  • scottygmc4x4scottygmc4x4 Member Posts: 20
    thank you the the info on my EEC system. It make sence to me.
  • tbacinotbacino Member Posts: 1
    My 93 740i stopped running last night 1 mile from my home and I suspect oxygen sensor as well.
  • lilaissweet1lilaissweet1 Member Posts: 1
    stopped and engine ran rough for second. serv eng soon light came on then off and engine smoothed. drove home 5 miles all ok. then foll day came on for several minutes. once was sluggish uphill. also backfired once. had computer checked at gm but no codes showed. had 2d comp check elsewhere and again no codes shown. Technician showed me that fuel filter was rather dirty and he replaced it. it ran like new car. next day after about 20 miles it started at three short tries. shut off and restarted after five minutes. drove home 5 miles and was like new car again. no light appeared. have not added dry gas ever and have not added fuel injectors since early fall. it is now 20 to 30 degrees. could it be moisture problem?
  • swschradswschrad Member Posts: 2,171
    #585, more likely it's dirt, varnish, goo, and slop from the fuel tank plugging the filter. if you ran ten years on that car and put in injector cleaner or dry gas once in 1993 and several times this fall, there is over 7 years of evil that was probably dissolved off and trapped in the filter.

    depending on filter design, phase of moon, how much income GM wants from filters, etc. I would expect to have the filter as a maintenance item every 30 to 50,000 miles on a pressurized system.

    if you buy gas in a dirty-air area, consider that every time the level goes down at the gas station's big tanks, they pull in air through those long snorkel tubes sticking up 20 feet to keep from crushing the tanks underground... and they take in whatever slop is in the air and expose it to the fuel. that could mean in Potato Patch, Idaho when the winter wind is whipping the bare fields into the air, you are getting a lot of dirt in your gas... same thing if you fill outside a steel mill. in those areas, you will plug a fuel filter faster.
  • alexander46alexander46 Member Posts: 9
    Can anyone tell me how to reset the check engine light on a 1997 Mazda 626?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Your car is OBD-II and usually requires a scan tool to turn off the check engine light. Depending on the fault which set the trouble code, the light may turn off after a given number of drive cycles. The diagnostic trouble code will remain in the engine computer's memory.
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    Most cars CEL can be turned off by removing one of the fuses for 10 seconds. This clears out the memory of the ECM. If you owners manual does not identify which fuse, go to a large library and look in a repair manual for your vehicle. These things don't change much from year to year. Betcha there are some scroungy dealers/repair shops out there that charge big bucks for "turning off" your CEL. Some guy had a dealer charge his $70+ for resetting the service required light on a Honda.

    Would love for a dealer to try that on me-that is a both fists pounding on the counter ranting screaming name calling opportunity.
  • radarnavradarnav Member Posts: 2
    Engine: 3.8L V6
    Miles: 69,000

    About 6000 miles ago, the CEL and ABS warning lights illuminated. They come and go intermittently, leading me to suspect a loose connection somewhere. If the ABS is not illuminated, the instrument cluster will be dead (including the digital shift selector window). Everything comes back to life when the ABS light illuminates again. I have tested the brakes, and trust me, the ABS system is working.

    Changed the serpentine belt shortly after the CEL started coming on - the ABS light started shortly after the new belt was installed.

    Checked the codes using the ignition switch as described in the Haynes Repair Manual.

    Codes: 12, 31, 33, 55

    The van eats batteries like I eat steak. I think we're on the 5th one, but I've stopped counting.

    One other interesting clue - started occasionally dieseling and backfiring after the new belt. And the ABS light will remain faintly illuminated after the engine is shut down - gotta turn the key on and off again to clear it.

    Something tells me the belt is a contributing factor, but I believe it is more. Would appreciate any help any of you pros can give to a very perplexed amature!
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    Most 96 & later vehicles require a scanner to clear the codes.
    THE ONLY WAY the light can be turned off is to fix the problem. Unplugging the ECM fuse may reset the ECM, but the codes are still there and if the problem is still there, which it more than likely will be, the light will stay ON.
    The light comes on when the ECM finds a fault. Usually, the fault has to be in multiples, so it doesn't usually just turn on for no reason at all.
    The light will remain on until the system no longer sees the fault. So, unless the thing fixes itself, if the light is on steady (meaning a hard fault), then unplugging everything isn't going to solve the problem.

    One thing I have noticed here lately, there is alot of misinformation being thrown out, this isn't helping the folks who really need the correct information.
  • dml4dml4 Member Posts: 1
    There seems to be a lot of wrong information regarding how to clear the check engine light on 1996 and later vehicles.

    You cannot erase codes by disconnecting the battery. You cannot read codes by shorting a specific pin on a connector. It used to be possible on older cars. The error code, or what they call a trouble code, would flash out Morse Code style. No longer since OBDII.

    A scan tool, or scanner, is required. They can be had for as low as $200 or so. Some are universal and work on all 1996 and later cars. Some are specific to only, GM, or Ford, etc...

    I use a universal one that connects to my Palm PDA and it works great.

    www.auterraweb.com
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    Does this mean that I can be forced to go to some garage with a scan tool to clear my ECM of the error code to pass a emission control check. The vehicle is working ok now-if so this is a real ripoff-the road gang and the govt get together.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    As has been posted here over and over again by numerous qualified mechanics, some '94 and '95, and ALL '96 and newer cars are OBD-II compliant. With very few exceptions, a scan tool is required to retrieve stored diagnostic trouble codes and turn of the MIL. Regarding "the road gang and the govt", start with the Enviromental Protection Agency. OBD-II is their baby.
  • dixaronedixarone Member Posts: 21
    Just had CEL turn on. Have had it in to check this last summer - was an 02 sesor issue, but the part didn't need to be replaced, apparently. Ran for a while, light came back on, same issue, same response from the Ford dealership's mechanics (who I find quite knowledgeable and helpful, FWIW) - the part is okay, don't worry about it. (They didn't charge me for the diagnostic the 2nd time - I thought that was quite reasonable on their part). Anyway, as I said, the light is on again. I figure it's the same issue, but I'm curious as to whether or not it could have anything to do with a clogged or otherwise-needing-to-be-replaced fuel filter? Reason I ask is that I know the fuel filter is due to be replaced mileage-wise, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Vehicle is running spot-on otherwise, just had tranny service, oil change, etc. done on it, and moves like a charm (other than a ridiculously annoying "clucking" noise coming from the passenger dash area which I've detailed in the "Perpetual Ford Explorer Woes" forum in the SUV area). Any thoughts much appreciated.
  • ragabnhragabnh Member Posts: 4
    Hi,

    I own 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup with 97000 miles on the odometer, recently the truck was overheating, I took it to a private mechanic shop and he changed the Thermostat and the problem was solved, however on my way home the engine check light came on. Now when the truck is cold in the morning the light is off, however after driving it for considerable time say 20 to 30 minutes the light goes on, more in the evening than the cold mornings. Could anybody possibly give me an advice what to do knowing that the truck is running perfectly and I changed the Oxygen Sensor 2 years ago.

    Thank you in advance.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Start by retrieving any stored trouble codes as outlined here:

    http://www.batauto.com/Chrysler.html
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    If you are looking for something cheap to try, replace the coolant temperature sensor or at least unplug it a few times to clean the contacts. This richens the fuel mixture when the engine is cold. If this is intermitant it may be driving the computer wild with a too rich or lean mixture.
  • mph2mph2 Member Posts: 1
    This problem is starting to happen more frequently. Car has 65k miles. To make the car run right all I have to do is turn off the ignition and remove and re-tighten gas cap. Buying a new gas cap didn't help, and I am getting it tight enough. What do you think the real problem is?
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    The only way to find the cause is to have the trouble codes read with a scan tool and go from there. The codes will indicate which circuit/system is malfunctioning. Anything else is guesswork.
  • shemzshemz Member Posts: 34
    I have recently, about 4 months ago, taken my car to the Nissan dealership here in raleigh, NC and they found out that my rear O2 sensor was messed up and they charged me 250 dollars!!! well thinking that the car would last couple of years without the check engin light came on, the engine light unfortunally turned back on, 4 months after i fixed the O2 censor. Now i dont know what the problem is...can anyone tell me what it could be?? I checked my gas cap...it was tight...i have been driving over rough roads lately..i dont know if that could be one of the causes...um..can i get advice???
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