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A little more to it than that.
If the computer didn't tell them anything, then they shouldn't have chased it. Common sense.
Anyways, I don't know anything about trouble codes, so I will yield to your great expertise.
Honda extended the warranty on mine to 150K-cars ought to have that kind of warranty for everything-yeah dream on.
Just wanted to get a second opinion. Could you have a short just affect just the CEL or would it affect other systems as well. The engine doesn't run rough or have any performance issues.
Sorry for the long post. I really appreciate any feed back you might have on this. Thanks a bunch.
cory
That isn't saying always. If there is a short, then yes, it can cause the light to intermittantly come on and show no codes.
The problem I see is that the ECM is condemned far too often.
Would need to know some things.
Does it come on under the same circumstances?
After warmed up, under load?
At certain rpms?
These things can all tell a story.
Also, during the Emissions test, did the light come on when they were running a dyno test?
cory
To be honest, since it is a 91, it will be tought to get a handle on what is the cause, without going to a dealer and having a monitor put onto the vehicle while you drive.
So, what you will need to do is print out this page and go for a drive. As soon as the light comes on, pull over and perform the diagnostic procedure.
Let us know what you find.
facility where we perform OBD11 tests
on cars (96 and newer). Often cars
cars fail(and thus are refused
registration ) because the OBD system
has found the sensors to be in "not
ready" condition. Usually this is
soon after vehicle service. We
generally tell the customer to "drive
around some" and return to the
facility for a recheck. Usually by the
time they return the sensors are
back to ready status, but not always.
I'd to develop the best advice I can
so the customer can restore the
ready condition to the car in the
shortest amount of driving time and
avoid a trip to a dealership. Since
we test all OBD11 cars the advice
would have to cover a wide range of
vehicles and reset cycle programs.
It would also have to be simple
enough for most drivers to understand.
Any advice on what to tell these
customers would be appreciated.
This article helps alot of folks understand some of what it is all about.
The next step, would be to find out what steps are needed to put their vehicle in "ready" status.
Some vehicles have a procedure for putting them in "test ready" status and information systems like Alldata give a step by step on how to do that.
From AutoZone's website:
"Our Free Diagnostic Service can tell you what
caused your "Check Engine" light to come on and
what to do about it."
http://www2.autozone.com/az/in_our_stores/check_engine.jsp
Tim
The scanning for codes is fine and all, but you're really going to take advice on what parts to replace from an 18 year old parts counter person? I know, you will all say it is easy, anyone can fix their car. Right?
Scan the codes and replace the part it says. Right?
WRONG! I have heard dozens of times where folks have said they went to so and so and had the codes read and replaced the O2 sensor and the light STILL comes on. WHY?
Because the codes are for the circuit, not the sensor. The sensor is part of the circuit. So, while it is possible the sensor may be the problem, it is more likely that it is a wiring problem or something else.
Now don't get me wrong, use them to have them pull the codes for free, but understand that they are there to sell you parts. They will tell you what they think you should buy. They don't have the experience to make that judgement. They don't spend everyday working on vehicles and seeing the problems.
if they wanna sell it, they either need to provide the dealer's diagnosis sheet, like within the past week, and estimates... or fix the (%^%$( thing.
stay away.
To me this means that the owner doesn't take care of the vehicle or do regular maintenence. I sure would check and smell the brake, power steering and transmission fluids to see their condition as well.
Now he probably can't do a lot of damage, but it certainly would affect the price of sale to me.
If the light is on and the dealer can't find the problem, then they aren't doing their job or don't have a clue.
Can you tell us what trouble codes came up when they scanned it for codes?
If the light has been on for a year, there are codes, no matter what they tell you.
If the problem cannot be found, as fleetwoodsimca said, it would be wise to rethink purchasing this vehicle.
tollelege,
I asked the Autozone folks to reset my check engine light so that I could determine if the "problem" would be recreated. They explained that they were not allowed by law to do this.
There is no law regarding clearing the trouble codes. They have no clue what they are telling you.
Is it possible to clear the error code from the computer myself so that I can determine if I really do have a problem with the EGR?
If you have a scanner or code reader, then you can clear the codes yourself. Some jokers will tell you that you can clear the codes by disconnecting the battery, but on vehicles after 96, that does not work.
Or is this something only the dealer can do?
As stated above, a scanner or code reader is required to clear the codes. Does NOT have to be done by the dealer.
Here is a page that outlines some Palm pilot programs, laptop programs and handheld scanner/code readers. http://www.batauto.com/technical/scaninfo.shtml">Scanner programs and Code readers
Understand that when you get a trouble code, it refers to that circuit/system and not the actual sensor.
Actually, there are some free downloads for the OBD2 programs. They do require an interface though, but if you are handy with electronics, OBD Automotive Diagnostics shows how to build the interface or they will sell you one.
Also, The VPW, CarBytes & probe downloads on that page has the VPW program that shows how to build an inexpesive interface and they have allowed us to let folks download it from our site. If you look at where it says Download these programs here it will take you to a page to download it. Realize that some of these programs are experimental and require some electronics abilities, but alot of them will also sell you the interface ready made.
The CarCode [obd-2.com] package is a good all around package.
would have been nice to have had the source for the microprocessor availiable, I think I can burn the PIC microchips series with a toy I already have. but the guy's gotta eat, so I don't begrudge him his code.
Where do you need clarification? LOL!
This is the code reading I am getting for the "check engine light" on my wife's 2000 Windstar LX w/3.8 V-6, 60k on the odometer. What the heck is this ?? it doesn't seem to effect the running but the light is annoying & I'm sure it has $$$ connected to the fix!
Ray T.
lots of ways to get tools. you can go down to Parts R Pus and buy a code scanner off the shelf, or you can gasp and fume and do a little self-help and get the functionality by putting some software in a laptop and some parts in a box. batauto shows lots of instances and has some reviews of both options. a nice site, BTW, 0patience.
the OBD-II scanner nowadays is your test light of the computer generation. can't just go hit the dumpster behind the cop shop, pull out a bent flashlight, put in a cardboard spacer and two metal disks with wires attached between the batteries, and use that to find all your faults. that only works in chasing brake lights that don't go on nowadays.
I had all but three parts for the scanner interface box that BR has whomped up in my junkbox, so it's a no-brainer for me to order those three, find a cheapo 486 laptop someplace (that is, a laptop with a computer chip from 1994), and spend a few hours' labor to end up with a code tool.
if the detail stuns, just relax and look at the pretty lights until you forget that I used to build all my own test equipment, and then think of it as the way '70s computer refugees play in their electronic junk piles, instead of make submarines in their basements because they found a whole pile of welding rods .
Thanks for the comments on the site
There are several open source programs for OBD2, the VPW program and the OBD Diagnostics programs I am pretty sure they are open source. I know the VPW is. The OBD diagnostics site has pretty indepth info on making a unit.
There are alot more good systems coming out too. I like the palm systems that are coming out. We keep looking for new systems to check up on and see what is good for the investment. If you guys run into anything that I can check out, let me know. (from my profile):)
The bad thing is, OBD3 is not too far off and all the scan programs will start all over again. If you are looking to buy a palm system, check out the Auterra scan program for the Palm PC. It is a nice unit, does alot and I like the fact that it is a unit you could carry around in your pocket.
I have a laptop that is pretty beatup because of sliding off seats onto the floor.
I knew better than that. LOL!
But it was fun discussing it. Plus you never know, someone may come upon our bantering and discover some info they can use. HA HA.
Well, it sounded good anyway.
About the expense..
OBD Diagnostics sells the interface for about $80, give or take.
Once you have the interface, then you can upload their program and run it. There are also about half dozen free downloads for the program in various phases of developement. So for about $100 and an old laptop, you could have a scan tool. A 486 is about as low as you want to go, because I am thinking that it requires at least Win95 to operate the program.
The Palm systems are great and the cost of them is starting to go down. Give it time, when the OBD3 systems start hitting the market, the OBD2 systems will be dirt cheap. LOL!
not as pretty or as nice, but it should get the codes, then you look up with the second program what they do, as I read the file titles.
I defer to 0patience as to what is the coolest tool, as he's been playing with 'em all and has the shop experience needed to evaluate their usefulness as well. I just want to get my hands on something and see what it does. always have been more "ethernet" rather than "token ring," or "screw the manual, let's fire it up and see what it looks like."
different interfaces and programs, slightly different requirements... but if you can get Win95 running on anything, you probably have your pick of the ragpickers' lineup.
you can also get a portable scope interface from Radio Shack for something like a hundred dollars that will put the traces up on a laptop screen, but that would require win95 or win98 at a minimum for much utility.
really, if you are looking for something that would be a semi- or fully- commercial tool, at this point it's worth looking for something that will run on a Palm-type platform... a Palm, Handspring, or Zaurus for instance. that's one lab-coat pocket full with a "bump on a wire" interface, all-day battery life, and not too many buttons to push and screw up your diags. putting code readers on a laptop is rather like a 'Russian hardware' approach, and laptops break easier and cost more to replace.
the batauto.com site has a review on a "why it died" detector, but the lead length and stuff is not designed for leaving it hooked up for weeks while you drive. pity, because that item, although expensive for Joe Driver, would be exactly what is called for as a starting place. however, your car doesn't die often enough and regularly enough for that tool, meant to be used with the hood up, to be worth buying.
having said that....
you have got to be losing either fuel, spark, or command to have this conk out. you have not mentioned whether there were ever any codes set and what they are... the fault codes are essential to chasing the issue. intermittents are hell on earth to get after.
if there WERE none, you have an issue for sure. if there WERE CODES, but the shop never let you in on what they were, shame on them double and underlined. I don't believe in the cult of "shut up and pay, you don't need to know what we do and what we know." and for that reason I would not go back.
if you don't want to buy a reader for the codes, and have an autozone store nearby, they can read the codes and tell them to you. they want to sell you the parts their magic crib sheet says are related... but the codes only say WHERE TO LOOK for issues.
if you want to shotgun parts until you fix it, run out of money, or run out of patience, at this point... I would unplug all sensor connections and clean them, lightly spray the contacts with WD-40 and put them back together. do the same with the connections to the coil pack on the low voltage side, and the crank position sensor. if it fails again, and you don't want or can't chase the codes, I would replace the ignition coil and distributor if equipped, and see what happens.
I think the 'uplug sensor/cleaning" scenario makes sense, but don't know if I can find something other than a chiltons that would show locations of these. Any ideas on that? Hopefully with technology and information these days I can find that.
Thanks again....I will push on in this quest.
This is the code reading I am getting for the "check engine light" on my wife's 2000 Windstar LX w/3.8 V-6, 60k on the odometer. What the heck is this ?? it doesn't seem to effect the running but the light is annoying & I'm sure it has $$$ connected to the fix!
I posted awhile back to Mr. Shiftright but at this point any motorheads w/code knowledge out there HELP !
Ray T.
Ray T.
We can help you, but you have to help us. We need to know what trouble codes were retreived.
If we have the trouble codes, not the definitions, we will have a starting point to go from. The trouble codes SHOULD be printed on your work order.
swschrad,
The "why it died" [What Quits First] monitor,
They have made the leads longer on the new units, mainly because we requested that we could get some with longer leads. That unit is a great unit. Pricey? Well, yes. But for what it does, it pays for itself.
rayt2,
P1518 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC)Malfunction (Stuck open)
The IMRC system is monitored for failure during continuous, key ON engine OFF or key ON engine running self-test.
The test fails when the signal on the monitor pin is less than an expected claibrated range at closed throttle.
Possible causes of P1518
IMRC monitor signal circuit shorted to PWR GND or SIG RTN
Damaged IMRC actuator
Damaged PCM.
The Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Electric Actuated system consists of a remote mounted motorized actuator with an attaching cable for each housing on each bank. Some applications will use one cable for both banks. The cable or linkage attaches to the housing butterfly plate levers. The 2.0L (2V) Focus/Escort IMRC uses a motorized actuator mounted directly to a single housing without the use of a cable. Each IMRC housing is an aluminum casting with two intake air passages for each cylinder. One passage is always open and the other is opened and closed with a butterfly valve plate. The housing uses a return spring to hold the butterfly valve plates closed. The motorized actuator houses an internal switch or switches, depending on the application, to provide feedback to the PCM indicating cable and butterfly valve plate position.
Below approximately 3000 rpm , the motorized actuator will not be energized. This will allow the cable to fully extend and the butterfly valve plates to remain closed. Above approximately 3000 rpm , the motorized actuator will be energized. The attaching cable will pull the butterfly valve plates into the open position. Some vehicles will activate the IMRC near 1500 rpm .
I know, for the most part, you are going huh?
It means the actuator in the manifold is possibly hanging up, due to carbon. There is a possibility that a cleaner, such as GM's Top Engine cleaner will knock the carbon loose and get it back work, but not likely. There are a bunch of tests to do to determine for sure what the cause is.
Ray T.
I won't say that it won't cause a breakdown, but more than likely it will create a poor performance and economy situation.
You may [don't get your hopes up] be able to run GM's Top Engine cleaner thru the system and prevent any further problems.
If you chose to use the Top Engine cleaner, follow the directions to the letter. It comes in 2 types, aerosol and liquid. The aerosol is the easiest to deal with.
New update....I finally got my bulb back (or a new one) from the shop (crooks) which removed my last check engine light bulb from behind the console. I was putting it back in the open spot (4WD light socket) from where I swapped out the bulb which is now in my check engine light socket. Upon doing this the plug on the back of the speedometer console came slightly out and I plugged it back in tight. I turned the ignition to accessory to check the new bulb and make sure it was working. I realized that the check engine light was now off upon starting the vehicle. So I took it out to check the fillament and integrity...all was fine. I put it back in and made sure it came on upon accessory...it did. Now it's still off and the 4WD light is fine....it just reset itself somehow. Is this from me unplugging the console for a short time? I don't get it? But I will continue to monitor it. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks as always for your comments,
Jason