Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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so you need somebody with a scan tool to pull the codes, evaluate them, perhaps diddle something else to see what it does and where that takes him on the diagnostic step chart for the faults in that section of the car... until they get to, "east platinum framistan is farbled, replace."
once the service is complete, the tech needs to reset the computer with the scan tool. then and only then is the $$$ light out to stay.
that's the process. pick one and go.
Thanks again to all who have taken the time to reply.
reason I ask it is that the baffles in the explorer tank allow fuel slosh to uncover the pickup on left turns with 1/3 of a tank or less, and the way you fix it is to drive on the top half of the tank.
you may have a similar issue
So the story goes: I was on my way to work, car was running fine.. then mis-fires and stalls... I took it into the dealer.. and yada, yada, yada.. turns outit needs $300 for the plugs, wires, rotor, and cap.. plus another $700 for misc things that they claimed I needed..
I drove it home, (no problems there or back), and I replaced cap, rotor, plugs, wires, and for good measure, air, and fuel filter. It runs like a top!!!.. I love this car.. (this was about 4 weeks ago)
Now, I put it in the garage for 2 weeks, while I drove my winter car. (been driving it to make sure all the bugs are out before winter). Anyway, This morning, I was in a hurry, and wanted to take the VW, I started it up, got to the end of the driveway, and it mis-fired and stalled again... after re-starting, It runs great. but the check engine light is on now. How do I turn this off?
Last time, when I took it to the dealer, they told me the problem, but it wouldnt turn off till I replaced the above. How do I turn it off without replacing all that again?
Please help.
Thanks for all the help though!
The tank was closer to 3/4 full. I appreciate the idea though. Well it's back to the shop I guess. Maybe there will be a code this time that points somewhere. Will post more as soon as I know more. This has got to have a happy ending at some point.
Ray T.
Those are for OBD1 and are nothing more than a jumper with an LED light. There are very few of the OBD1 vehicles that we do not provide info for without a tool.
Most of these tools are a waste of money. A few of them, such as the AutoXray scan tool do more than jumper the DLC. The AutoXray will do freezeframes and monitor sensors.
Then there are a few others that do the same for OBD1.
OBD2 is a different story. There are several protocals, regardless of what the govt. pushed for.
We have one page dedicated to scanners and programs for OBD2 and it grows continuously. Different companies come out with scanners and scan programs on a continuous basis.
While I am not saying I don't trust the SES light, I want a simple way to extinguish the light to see if registers again. I want to change the brand of gas and tighten the cap until it clicks three times and fully seats. Then if it lights up again, then the problem lies elsewhere and a trip to a professional is in order. Problem is if its a simple fix there's no way for a saturday mechanic to know if he fixed the problem or not without having a scantool. Not all of us want to go back to the dealer who will inevitably try selling you hundreds of dollars worth of "preventive maintenence" in addition to the fee for dumping codes or to reset the SES light. And who wants to be without a car or have to take a day off from work just to bring it in for uneeded service. This is where I believe that some dealers can take advantage of this system.
Now I want to restate that I said reset the SES light and not to erase any previously set codes on the ECU. While I intend to disconnect the battery to see if the gas/cap/traffic was the reason for the abnormality, I really wanted to avoid doing this because I didn't want to erase the radio presets and homelink controls.
I am not advocating that the SES does not perform a necessary and useful function. I just wish that a novice mechanic has a way to make simple reasonable repairs without feeling helpless being at the mercy of the Service Manager.
I will start shopping for a scanner as you have described on this board. I have read all the posts and have learned a lot from this discussion. Thanks to all who participates and to those who gives assistance to who needs it.
The prices on scan tools is slowly dropping in price. They will always be a little expensive, but there are alot of alternatives out there. there are tons of PC based programs and interfaces.
Some of the programs are free and there are interfaces available for around $75.
warrenul,
There is no way to "reset" the light. The light comes on when it detects a problem and goes out after a set number of restarts, when it no longer detects the problem or on some instances it will go out when the problem is no longer detected. If the problem is gone, the light will go out. If the problem is still there, the light will still be on.
Novice mechanic, DIYer or professional mechanic, a scanner is a required tool anymore. Like it or not.
On the subject of scantools. There are tons of them out there. educate yourself on what is available, then decide what you want it to do.
I like the Auterra Palm scan program, not exactly cheap, but it has alot of capabilities.
Be sure exactly what it will do. If it will not monitor or freeze frame, it is just a code reader.
OBD2 code readers just do that, read codes, nothing else.
There are 2 tools that a mechanic cannot be without in these times, a scanner and a good information system. We use Alldata for our information system and our guys like Snap-On's MT2500 scanner (spendy), Auterra's Palm unit, AutoXray, CarCode's PC based scan program and for European Imports, CarSoft's PC based scan program (spendy).
swschrad,
Dodge.
On their vehicles with digital dash, there is a provision for pulling basic trouble codes.
I went on a little trip this weekend and got a chance to spend some time on the expressway. I noticed after a quick little 45 min. drive that my check eng. light had turned off. I then drove the return trip, and at some point it came on again. Nothing too exciting really, this has happened all along. But, then the next day I take an hour and a half road trip and the light is off again upon the destination. Then after the vehicle sat for a couple of hours I drove a short distance and while idling the light came back on again. I then drove the return trip (1.5 hours), and near home I stalled at a stop light. I restarted and it wanted to stall again.....put it in Nuetral and kept it running. Then it stalls at the next stop light, and then the next. At some point I got out of stop and go, and it ran fine again. I later took that 45 min. trip again, and you guessed it-the light was off again. It remains off today as I have taken it into the shop this morning.
The mech. said this actually could be the O2 sensor. (It was supposedly replaced a month or so ago) It looked new and shiny though.
The last code we got on this thing pointed to the O2 sensor....but it was new then too.
Anyone see any correlation here at all? Should I drop the $$$ again to swap in a new O2 sensor???? Based on this new series of events, does it sound like an O2 scenario? How about an idle problem? Just thought I would throw this new info. out there and see what anybody might think. As always thanks in advance for your thoughts.
I still say if its a one time occurance let the &*$# light reset after a couple of engine cycles or let us easily reset it. Why does one have to wait so long time and look at that %&*@$! light for something minor. (Someone said earlier, maybe 50 or so complete cold engine starts to normal operating temperature?)
The SES light causes so much axiety for people not experienced in diagnosing the problem. It seems senseless to have the same light indicate everthing from a major engine control problem that will destroy the engine to something that is really minor, like a loose gas cap. It like having a smoke detector go off everytime you light up a cigarette or use the oven and not having it go off for a week, a month or more. Try living with that.
I think it's excellent preventative maintenance every 50K.
But isn't that what detergent gasoline is suppose to do? Mobile ads sez "drive yer engine clean". I think it helps keeps carbon buildup to a minimum. I would hope that it also keeps the O2 sensor happy too.
I know Alcan and myself have said this several times. An O2 sensor trouble code does NOT mean that the sensor is bad. It is a problem with the O2 reading or circuit.
Now, this could be a bad O2 sensor, but it can also be a vacuum leak, exhaust leak, bad O2 sensor wires or a fuel pressure problem.
If the mechanic hasn't checked fuel pressure, checked for vacuum leaks or exhaust flow, then those are some things that should be checked if the O2 sensor itself is reading fine.
warrenul,
Most trouble code diagnostic trees/flowcharts, the first thing on the diagnostics is to clear the trouble codes, road test and then recheck the trouble codes. Sometimes the light will come on because of a fault that is an intermittent and will clear itself. Some instances of this are poor fuel qulaity may cause the O2 sensor to illuminate when low on fuel. When the vehicle is fueled with good fuel, the system "sees" no morre fault.
Don't confuse GM's Top Engine cleaner with a de-carbonizer. It is designed to remove varnish that is built up from oils and fuel. Detergent helps prevent varnish and carbon from building up, but it still builds up.
GM's Top Engine cleaner is designed that you pour it into the intake while it is running, then you purposely pour too much in until the engine stalls. Then you are supposed to let it set, while the cleaner softens any varnish build up.
The injector cleaner that mrdetailer is confusing with a de-carbonizer is a cleaner that is run thru the injectors. It is designed to clean inpurities from the injector tip and clean oil and fuel varnish from the combustion chamber.
Carbon is not a major issue anymore, unless the vehicle is neglected. If there is a carbon problem, then it will affect the entire fuel management system.
Ray T.
If carbon were a problem, as they say, the fuel management system should have a fit. The emissions should be off the charts. Carbon build up is cause by unburned hydrocarbons or contaminents in the fuel. If carbon build were the problem, then it should affect the O2 sensor.
Ha ha, thanks! Believe it or not, I can't hold a candle to alot of the mechanics I deal with on the automotive stuff, including Alcan.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is with those engines, but it would seem to me that there is a problem with a couple things. One being an oil problem. Since it seems to be a cold start knock, then it would make sense that the one or several lifters are bleeding off.
Another thought is a spark knock situation. I have dealt with one truck that the guy pulled the engine down, installed a new cam and lifters and put a performance PROM in the ECM and reprogrammed it for performance and the knock disappeared. I told him I wished he would have first installed the chip, because I would have liked to seen if the chip alone helped the problem or not. He hauls a race car trailor and is a power nut. LOL!
I did have an "induction cleaning" the last time my 4Runner was in.
I just got the latest from the shop: The fuel pressure has been checked, also no vaccum problems. They have gone through this thing again with a fine tooth comb.
What they think is the problem relates now to a "rear-02 sensor"? I didn't know there were 2? (the main one has checked fine again and they are confident that it's working perfectly) But that we could be dealing with a catalytic scenario now. The light is off now and the mechanic drove the vehicle some 104 miles to see what would happen. That's more than I put on it weekly, so it should have done something like in the past. Well all is well right now. I am supposed to pick it up tonight and the mechanic actually said he would "...like me to take the vehicle and drive it for a week or so and see what happens" before I pay the bill again. Sounds like I only have about $150 or so into it this time (for the sensor). I pray this is the fix. (rear 02 sensor)
Sorry for all the details, but figured it was warranted at this point.
How does this sound to anyone? 0patience?
Thanks for the comments, they do help.
And before I go into this any further, I must tell you that if this mechanic has narrowed it down and charges you fair, you should remember to keep him in mind for ALL your repairs.
That being said,If there was a problem with the forward O2 sensor and it was replaced, there may be a problem with the catalytic converter, which would affect the rear O2 sensor.
You may want to have the exhaust pressure checked before and after the cat. That will tell you the condition of the catalytic converter.
0patience: I will refer this mech. to any and all of my friends, and continue to use them . They truly have been a good find. They keep apologizing for the mystery....but having said that, I realize the position they are now in. They are being more than fair and have more than established trust here.
The mech. did say now, after telling him the light is back on, that the catalytic converter would be the next thing. He wanted to monitor the rear 02, after I fill up with some mid-grade and run out the premium currently in there?? He tried to save me from the $$$. I appreciate it, but it looks like $500 or more. I can't believe this ordeal. The vehicle only has 48K on it. All people/pros my mech. has talked to, have never heard of anything like this with a 4Runner or anything else. The sad fact is that the catalytic conv. most likely has nothing to do with the stalling scenario, probably only the check eng. light. It hasn't stalled in about 140 miles though, as of right now. Maybe the additive did some good here.
I guess we are on the right track, but somehow, this seems so wrong. I am going to stop here because I think we have exhausted all possibilities and it seems like my shop is doing all the proper procedures. I thank all for the suggestions and comments and wish this story had a happy ending.
JS
Understand, that if the cat is partially plugged, the engine can stall. You see, if the air going out of the engine is stopped, then the air coming into the engine is stopped. No air, no fire.
This article may help shed some light.
Not always the ignition. More often than not, there is a fuel management problem. Whether it is a vacuum leak, exhaust leak of fuel pressure problem.
If the forward O2 sensor was a problem and it was verified, then it would send a bad fuel mixture thru the cat. If the O2 sensor went bad, then it must be determined why it went bad.
Again, vacuum leaks, exhaist leaks, bad wiring or a fuel pressure problem would contribute to contaminating the O2 sensor and cause it to go bad.
Thanks.....
Thanks for you assistance.
however, it might be a good thing to get a diag tree for misfire (it helps to know the code number) and work through it to fix the trouble first.
more than you ever wanted to know about codes, and what sections of the drivetrain each one covers (code does NOT equal "replace this part only to fix your ride") is on www.batauto.com.
If they didn't, then you will need to have the trouble codes retrieved and let us know what they are. We may be able to help determine why they are having troubles finding the cause.
Thanks for your help identifying this problem, based on this vans history the ext. warranty is going to come in very handy and pay for itself over & over again.
Ray T.
The IMRC is replaceable. But if it is covered under warranty, I guess why not?
Glad to hear that it is getting taken care of.
THANK YOU!! For letting me know. I really appreciate the feedback, as not many provide it.