Check Engine light

rayt2 · October 2002

Their replacing it because I mentioned the magic words "Extended Warranty", the mere tone of service managers voice went from glum to joy as soon as I mentioned it. His eyes were replaced with $$ signs. LOL
Get the van back friday since they had to order the part. I will be asking to see the defective part since I am also skeptical as to why replacement was needed over repair. Will let you know when I here.

Ray T.

rayt2 · October 2002

Just as I stated, labor/material $1100. Funny thing is my wife wasn't 10 miles down the road when the check engine light came on again....To be continued........

Ray T.

0patience · October 2002

Did they replace the IMRC or just the manifold and use the old parts?
It makes no sense to replace the manifold and not install a new IMRC.
Is it the same trouble code?

bburton1 · October 2002

Much safer and easier way to do this-figure out which fuse connects to the ECU and pull it for 10 seconds-quick and no wrench required and no potential sparks from battery.

Have a CEL that goes on a lot-some emissions code and the fuse is a fast way to reset.

scottygmc4x4 · October 2002

How do I pull the codes from my 2000 Cav. I understand I can use a jumper wire and then what????

0patience · October 2002

You can't pull the trouble codes on your vehicle without a scanner. Your vehicle requires an OBD2 compliant scanner to retrieve the trouble codes.
If you read thru this topic, there are links to some scantool options.

newjack · October 2002

Help!! I have 90 Lincoln Mark LSC VII, and recently the check engine light came on. I've disconnectted the battery for 60 minutes and it's still on. The dealer performed the diagnostic but said "The computer does not go into sefl-test mode". Now I need a new computer box & TPS and with labor it's costing $600, and he say's this is needed just to extract the codes. The machnic said this year models were poorly assembled. Napa said let the dealer handle it because lincoln are know for thier electrical problems. I'm considering the MARAUDER but don't need the problems!! THANKS leaster@earthlink.net

swschrad · October 2002

for the randy hell of it, try hitting a junkyard for an EEC-IV computer. ford used the same computer in all its passenger vehicles. you can probably get one for maybe $200 on a "if it's broke, we'll give ya another" warranty. that's a darn sight better than $600.

fleetwoodsimca · October 2002

Good call! That kind of cross-brand referencing and wrecking yard usage reference is excellent advice. I've bought a lot of "stuff" from yards, and have found it to be an excellent source.

rayt2 · October 2002

Here's the service report: Code P1518 IMRC
Tech Notes: CL display smoke test EVAP tests found IMRC not moving properly.
Ordered lower manifold with runners removed ($395)and replaced lower manifold and intake gaskets, replaced vacum line.
My question, why would they order the manifold without the runners???
The Windstar seems to running fine after tech switched the two vacum lines around that caused the light to come back on 10 miles after initial repair.

All in all it was $923 just for this portion of my service visit, all covered by my recently purchased Warranty Gold extended serv. policy (thank goodness).

Ray T.

0patience · October 2002

They guessed.
Since it was a warranty item, they went with what they new was going to fix the problem one way or another.
The runners are probably not a covered replacement item, so the probably saved the old ones. Or, it may have been an update on the manifold.
I recently came across an article on the Caravans where the fix for a problem was to remove the knock sensor. Not replace it, remove it and tape up the wires. If it hadn't been a factory bulletin, I'd have never believed it.

swschrad · October 2002

how many other sensors, I wonder, are they going to unilaterally decide aren't needed?

next factory bulletin: ignition change... remove (laundry list of items), add coil, condensor, points, distributor, cap

mat123 · November 2002

I have a 2000 Hyundai Elantra with about 50K miles, 2 days ago when I started driving the "check engine" light suddenly came on and the car started noticeably vibrating, accelaration also started to be lousy. I was in New Jersey at that time I needed to drive back to PA. Anyway, when I was driving at high speed on highway the "check engine" light would be blinking, and if I stop at red light or drive slower than 30 mph the light would be solid on. Also I noticed the car starts to have less gas mileage than before. Anyone knows what might be the problem? I tired to tighten the gas tap but it won't work. Thanks in advance.

fleetwoodsimca · November 2002

Are you saying you attempted to tighten the gas cap, but it wouldn't tighten? If that is the case, that is the first thing to fix. Then, drive many times from startup through ignition off with the engine warming up well during the period of use. How many is many? Well, try five commutes and see if the problem is over. Actually, use your own judgement on the period you allow for "cure" to take hold after loose gas cap condition is corrected.

hed111_100 · November 2002

Thursday my check engine light came on while I was driving home in the evening. On Fri, the light did not go on. Any ideas out there on what could have happened?

I have a 2000 4Runner. I noticed nothing different about the car's performance when the check engine light was on.

0patience · November 2002

hed111_100,
The check engine light comes on because it detects a fault in the system. Systems after 1996 are OBD2 and require an OBD2 scantool to retrieve the trouble codes to determine a starting point as to the cause of the light coming on.

When the light comes on, the system may go into a default mode and run fairly normal.
Once you have retrieved the trouble codes or had them retrieved, we can give you an idea as to the cause.

hed111_100 · November 2002

Can vapor lock cause check engine light to go on as per message 766.

tmt1961 · November 2002

i had a check engine light on, i brought to the dealer the mechanic tested the oxygen sensor is bad, it will cause using more gas than normal.

swschrad · November 2002

also gas cap issues (!) are common, because the vapor recovery tank is sensor-equipped. cap doesn't seal, you get the $$$ light after filling up.

fleetwoodsimca · November 2002

And that one normally calls for a new gas cap. I've been there, and been amazed that it is true!
In my case, it was on a new Villager Mercury with about 6K miles on it.

0patience · November 2002

One of the first checks when the CEL/SES comes on, is to check that the fuel cap is on correctly, tight or that the gasket is in good shape and not torn.

slothrop1 · November 2002

Car is at 40K and received the above lights. Seemed the lights would kick on after the gas tank reached the half-empty mark. Fill it up and light would go out. Took to dealer who said he received "misfire codes" on cylinders 1 and 4. Replaced the plugs and jetted the fuel injectors.

One month went by with out a hitch, but the same warning lights have returned after it went below half a tank.

Lastnight I replaced the air filter, the gas cap and filled it up with Mobile gas instead of the usual Citgo or Sheetz. The lights went off. Any thoughts what this could be?

swschrad · November 2002

bad, badly backordered, and if replacing the gas cap didn't fix it, you should get the engine scoped. this might be an issue. it wouldn't be related to the tank being half empty (that sounds more like a sensor at the vapor canister) but based on the misfire codes, hot coils having insulation breakdown. this will progress if it is the coils to serious misfire. also need to consider the condition of the plug wires, if there is no load on the coil when the pulse comes through, that will hasten any insulation breakdown starting up.

slothrop1 · November 2002

The mechanic said the misfires were due to the plugs needing replaced and the carbon build-up.

So far two days without the lights coming back on. I plan on keeping the tank above half for a couple of weeks, assuming the lights do not come on, I will let it drop below half a tank to see what happens.

Does the brand of gas matter, as in Mobile versus Citgo? I have always heard they get the gas from the same place.

hed111_100 · November 2002

Having the check engine light go on and then off after venting the fuel cap seems quite common. I was message 768. It happened again last night, five days after first occurrance. Opened the gas cap and reclosed, light went off and has stayed off today so far. Car is a Toyota 4Runner 2000 and it has operated perfectly during this time.

58vw · November 2002

I appreciate the previous discussions, haven't read all 750, if anyone has anything brilliant to suggest regarding a 91Jetta,engine light comes on early in driving and goes off after a few miles I would like to know. Dealer says everything is fine, local wrench can't check it because it's a "dual-fuel" alcohol-gas so the chip is bizarre.
Thanks very much 58VW

alcan · November 2002

Try the procedure here:

http://www.batauto.com/VW/

frostyj · December 2002

Took car in for 50K service back on 11/8, and they replaced battery and flushed out systems due to dirty fluids (?). Everything was dandy for exactly 2 weeks (approx 500 miles), then started it and Check Engine light came on. Fixed gas cap and let it alone for a couple days to refresh itself, but no change. Took it in on 11/26 and they replaced cracked vacuum hose and they said everything was fine. Not even off the dealer lot and light comes on again. Brought it back in and they said air pump giving intermittent errors, BUT could be related to replaced hose. Told to give it til 12/4 to see if it'll work the code out or not. If not, they THINK they might have to replace secondary air pump. I am asking for advice because when I brought it back on 11/26 they had to call the VW Tech Line for help and wait like 4 hours for a response as well as they THINK it's the air pump but are not certain--neither of which doesn't give me any warm fuzzies. I'm going to try Autozone for free diagnostic today to get some answers, but any thoughts, comments, advice??

frostyj · December 2002

I've also noticed my gas mileage has not been as good since the 50k service--could it be related? I only use 89 octane and have since i bought it in May 2000. Used to get over 300+ miles (310-330) on full tank, but noticing less now--260-275 miles.

skyrm · December 2002

You guys were very helpful last time, and saved me some big bucks!

I loaned my car out over the weekend, and after filling up the tank, the "borrower" saw the check engine light came on. My first thought was the cap wasn't on tight. How do I disable the light, so that I can check my theory??

Thanks,

Steve Skyrm
skyrm@hotmail.com

fleetwoodsimca · December 2002

As I understand, if the light comes on due to a loose gas cap, most/many vehicles will recycle and extinguish the light themselves after "X" number of engine use sessions during which the cap is always tight and secure. "X" is a number that I cannot quantify for your Geo. I have read in these Edmunds forums that many posters have had this experience with various vehicles. In my own experience, I went to the Mercury dealer and they turned off the light via computer. They simultaneously installed a new gas cap. That was my cure, all under warranty on my Villager (Nissan Quest by another name).

sleepysteve · December 2002

not the fuel cap so i took it in to my non Toyota
local mechanic and the code P0172 came up on the
diagnostic check. Mechanic states "bank 1 lean
and vehicle needs to go to Toyota for ECM reprogramming" Called Toyota for appointment and
described problem to them and Toyota Service Department Rep states that reprogramming the ECM for a system to rich is not possible??
Any feedback would be
appreciated.(P0172 on a link from edmunds site comes up "system to rich")
Steve

0patience · December 2002

Your mechanic needs a diagnostic flow chart for the P0172 trouble code and do the diagnostics.
ECM reflashing will not solve the problem.

99 Toyota 4 Runner
P0172 System Too Rich (Fuel Trim) (CA Only)
CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
Fuel trim refers to the feedback compensation value compared against the basic injection time. Fuel trim includes short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim. Short-term fuel trim is the short-term fuel compensation used to maintain the air-fuel ratio at its ideal theoretical value. The signal from the heated oxygen sensor indicates whether the air-fuel ratio is RICH or LEAN compared to the ideal theoretical value, triggering a reduction in fuel volume if the air-fuel ratio is rich, and an increase in fuel volume if it is lean. Long-term fuel trim is overall fuel compensation carried out long-term to compensate for continual deviation of the short- term fuel trim from the central value due to individual engine differences, wear over time and changes in the usage environment. If both the short-term fuel trim and long-term fuel trim are LEAN or RICH beyond a certain value, it is detected as a malfunction and the MIL lights up.

When DTC P0171 is recorded, the actual air-fuel ratio is on the LEAN side. When DTC P0172 is recorded, the actual air-fuel ratio is on the RICH side.
If the vehicle runs out of fuel, the air-fuel ratio is LEAN and DTC P0171 is recorded. The MIL then comes on.
If the total of the short-term fuel trim value and long-term fuel trim value is within ±35% (80°C (176°F) or more), the system is functioning normally.

When air fuel ratio feedback is stable after engine warming up, fuel trim is considerably in error on the LEAN side.

Possible causes;
fuel line pressure
injector leak, blockage
Open or short in heated O2 sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) circuit
HO2S Bank1 sensor 1
Mass air flow meter circuit
Engine coolant temp sensor
gas leak on exhaust system
ignition system

fleetwoodsimca · December 2002

I sincerely found your post interesting. I am quite worried about myself. Should I get my head reflashed? (:o]

swschrad · December 2002

because we are all trying to stop flashing at our schools.

ha ha ha ha ha \\\ slap! /// oooh, thanks, I needed that.

loyalone · December 2002

Hi all, about a month ago my wife's jetta had the check engine light come on. She brought it in to the dealership and the told her it was because she is only doing a lot of short distance driving and this caused condensation build up. anyways, they did something (i wasn't there) and the light was off. yesterday, we were driving and I stopped the car and let it idle with her in the car while I ran into a store. I come back out and she says the light is back on. My question is, could this be the same condensation issue? the car has 66k kilometres on it.

thanks in advance.

sleepysteve · December 2002

thanks for the feedback 0patience
talking with the mechanic the diagnostic chart
comes up with a bad O2 Sensor. Mechanic does not
believe this to be the problem because he has
seen other 4 runners with bad O2 Sensor code and
they were replaced and problem was not solved. This is why he recomends ECU software to be updated. Although if I want they will gladly replace the O2 sensor. I have an appointment at
the Toyota dealership on Wednesday. Symptoms since
the light has come on 1 week ago
poor gas mileage 14.7 m.p.g. as opposed to the
17 to 18m.p.g. I usually get.
vehicle stalls sometimes when decreasing speed (manual transmission and stalls whether in neutral or in gear with clutch engaged
will check back on Wednesday with the news

0patience · December 2002

Intake leaks and vacuum leaks can cause the symptoms and the codes, has that been checked?

flaca · December 2002

Here's my situation:
Check engine light has been on for over 6 months. Dealership cannot pin point problem. Everytime something gets changed - the light pops up again. VW service is blaming a small accident in March on the problem and now won't cover under warranty. I took car back to body shop and they told me neither engine nor transmission was effected in accident. Each is blaming the other. I am going to a different dealership tomrrow. If I take the car to AutoZone - can they pinpoint the problem? I want to be prepared tomorrow. I really think this a warranty issue. BTW - Now the car revs up (surges?) the rpm when driving at 50-60 miles mph. This was not an issue prior to vw service. Any suggestions, guys?

alcan · December 2002

If the CEL is on there should be stored diagnostic trouble codes. Can't do anything without them. Any other approach is guesswork. AutoZone might be able to retrieve the codes, but if they could pinpoint the problem they surely wouldn't be working there. Remember, DTC's specify which CIRCUIT or SYSTEM has a problem, not which component. Let us know what codes were found.

squinty25 · December 2002

I've had my "check engine light" go on intermittently for 2 months now and the dealership still hasn't properly diagnosed it. Suppposedly it's a transmission code. But when I called the service dept. to find out what the exact numerical code was, the advisor said he "didn't know", saying the work was under warranty so that's why there is no code on the invoice. This sounds like pure BS to me. Has anyone heard of this??

swschrad · December 2002

you, sir, are being treated like a mushroom cave by this particular service organization. they are probably making stuff up in the coffee room and sending that on for warranty reimbursement, as well. I have little confidence in the game those guys are running. you have another franchised dealer in the area you can try instead? tell them honestly when you go in (because there is a computerized record on your car they will pull up via the VIN) that you have gotten no satisfaction at dealer X, they don't even say what was going on, and you want to find a service department that can get the job done.

squinty25 · December 2002

....it's "Ma'am", which is probably why I'm being treated this way. He must assume I'm a total moron because I'm a woman. Either that, or he's too lazy to get off of his [non-permissible content removed] and check the technician's notes.

I'm thinking I might get a simple answer by simply stopping into Auto Zone, getting it diagnosed for free, and - gosh, golly, gee - being told what the code is!

swschrad · December 2002

as I said, they were shovelling harder. vote with your feet. tell your friends.

wox · December 2002

I had my check engine light come on this morning. I have a 2000 Chrysler 300M. I read the various sites linked through here, and tried two methods of obtaining my "error codes" through the digital odometer.

The second method (turning key from run to off 3 times within 5 seconds) seemed to work. A code of P 1684 was displayed. When I checked on this code (again through links provided here) it appears to be related to "the battery having been disconnected sometime within the last 50 starts."

Another link described this code as "a status indicator only - NOT a reported fault code." Am I to assume that this is not the cause of the check engine light coming on? I have never disconnected the battery on this car before, however I have never had the check engine light come on when disconnecting the battery on several other cars, so I think this code is unrelated to the real problem.

I wonder if I didn't wait long enough to see if other codes would come up, or if I need to press the odometer reset button (or some other trick) to move to the next code. Heh, guess I am just spewing my thoughts here... If I can get any more information I will let you all know.

Greg

wox · December 2002

Well, silly me, I didn't wait long enough to get the second code which was P 0456. This is apparently "a small leak detected in the evaporative purge system." Anyone know how serious this is? Can I safely drive the car for a few days? How much will the repair hurt my wallet (not under warranty anymore)?

Greg

squinty25 · December 2002

You said you had two methods of obtaining the check engine light code, but you only mentioned one. What is the other way? Is it generally safe on the starter to turn it and on and off so quickly like that? Do you mean you have to actually turn the engine on or just get to the point where the odometer lights up? Would you know if this is only specific to Chryslers or will it work on an import too?

Am I asking enough questions?

alcan · December 2002

Check the gas cap for the P0456 code.

alcan · December 2002

The key is cycled Run, Off, Run, Off, Run, NOT to the Start position. No, it won't work on imports. A scan tool or code reader is required for most '96 and newer.

squinty25 · December 2002

Auto Zone refused to diagnose my check engine light today because it was raining. Why would that be? It was only a slight drizzle.

Check Engine light

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