Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

xwesx · October 2015

andres3 said:
The purpose of a Stop sign should be related to safety reasons, not for the purpose of slowing cars down, or deterring travel on a road my taxes have already paid for the installation of, including paving.

Er..... what? So, we're talking about a residential area that could, if not for traffic controls, allow for faster transit times than main thoroughfares, and you're arguing that stop signs should be only for increasing safety, not for slowing cars down. But, if the slowing of the cars increases safety, which, in a residential area, is demonstrated simply by the deterrence effect of the increased transit times, then these are not exclusive variables. In other words, the slowing of the cars acts to increase safety, ergo the Stop sign is relevant.

As a taxpayer, you're welcome to travel through these areas, but please observe all traffic control measures in place to enhance the safety of the residents in that area. You may not like it, but their well-being trumps your desire to get to your destination faster.

andres3 · October 2015

xwesx said:

andres3 said:
The purpose of a Stop sign should be related to safety reasons, not for the purpose of slowing cars down, or deterring travel on a road my taxes have already paid for the installation of, including paving.
Er..... what? So, we're talking about a residential area that could, if not for traffic controls, allow for faster transit times than main thoroughfares, and you're arguing that stop signs should be only for increasing safety, not for slowing cars down. But, if the slowing of the cars increases safety, which, in a residential area, is demonstrated simply by the deterrence effect of the increased transit times, then these are not exclusive variables. In other words, the slowing of the cars acts to increase safety, ergo the Stop sign is relevant.

As a taxpayer, you're welcome to travel through these areas, but please observe all traffic control measures in place to enhance the safety of the residents in that area. You may not like it, but their well-being trumps your desire to get to your destination faster.

You can't claim stop signs increase safety by detterence effect and not calculate for the equally offsetting DECREASE in safety at the roads you deter those drivers into taking. The same amount of drivers have to still go from A to B. You are just re-routing and redistributing the hazard and danger. It's a not in my neighborhood mentality that has no place in traffic engineering design. If the main thoroughfares are slower than a residential street, then perhaps more attention has to be placed onto those main roads!

xwesx · October 2015

It has every place. EVERY place. Local streets are for local drivers. Local drivers are the ones who have a destination on those streets. The safety factor is not for those INSIDE the cars and never will be. Get over it.

andres3 · October 2015

and I may continue to exercise my vote and disapproval of ridiculous stop signs with my right foot being strong on the accelerator and weak on the brakes. In some neighborhoods, I swear stop signs are used like speed bumps. Once a driver goes to a Stop Sign intersection 100 times, and 100 times in a row never has to stop due to another vehicle's right of way; the installers of said stop sign lose all credibility.

xwesx · October 2015

andres3 said:
and I may continue to exercise my vote and disapproval of ridiculous stop signs with my right foot being strong on the accelerator and weak on the brakes. In some neighborhoods, I swear stop signs are used like speed bumps. Once a driver goes to a Stop Sign intersection 100 times, and 100 times in a row never has to stop due to another vehicle's right of way; the installers of said stop sign lose all credibility.

I have no problem with that! I do it as well when warranted (which is regularly). And, as long as we are willing to accept responsibility for our actions, then we are fully within our rights to do so.

slorenzen · October 2015

Just finished a road trip to Idaho(Kooskia/Grangeville, then up to Coeur d'Alene) and eastern Washington State(Spokane area).

I really liked driving in Idaho. Everyone drove a reasonable speed, I never saw tailgating, and drivers were so polite when you stepped off the curb to cross the street(This was small-town Idaho, can't say it's the same in their larger areas).

Then we went to Washington.

'nough said.

Why is is that so many in Washington and Oregon drive like they're bi-polar?

hammerhead · October 2015

Spokane drivers are psycho. Well, a lot of them anyway. There are those of us who at least try to do it the right way, but are routinely amazed by the antics as viewed through our windshields. Glad you survived.

slorenzen · October 2015

hammerhead said:
Spokane drivers are psycho. Well, a lot of them anyway. There are those of us who at least try to do it the right way, but are routinely amazed by the antics as viewed through our windshields. Glad you survived.

Thanks.

I've been living in a small town long enough that when I go to big(ger) areas, it takes a while to ramp up the agressiveness needed to survive.

Fintail is always talking about Seattle area drivers, and they do seem to be, uh, "special", but I think a lot of Oregonians are just as bad. Seems they can't drive in the rain.

Go figure...

hammerhead · October 2015

And we get snow. Every year. And people somehow forget how to drive in the stuff since last year.

fordgirl15 · October 2015

I think there are a lot of people in quite a few states that don't know how to drive in the rain. or snow. mom said in Texas they wud get a occasional snow and people wud get out and go 60 like normal. I agree with @hammerhead that people do forget how to drive in the snow since last year. anybody have snow yet? We were getting small flakes last night. nothing much.

xwesx · October 2015

Yeah, we're definitely into the snow season here. We had about 20" several weeks ago, most of which melted. Then a substantial amount of rain in the middle of October (which is really unusual - it's typically snow by that late), and now, we finally have a couple inches of snow. This will probably be the stuff that sticks around until May. So, mark it: October 29. Winter is come.

xwesx · November 2015

Finally!

I bought my current recovery strap, which is a "snatch strap" type of a device, over a year ago and had yet to use it... until this morning.

I got a bug to head into work early, and it was fortunate, too, because just happened across a car that went into the ditch a few moments before I drove by. I stopped, assessed, hooked up the strap, and one quick pull later the car (a Kia Spectra, IIRC) was up, out, and back on the roadway despite the glared snowpack (e.g., slippery for the recovery vehicle) and at an intersection that would be very busy in another twenty minutes or so!

This is a great way to start one's day. Recovering, not driving the car that's in the ditch; I don't recommend that.

slorenzen · November 2015

xwesx said:
Finally!

I bought my current recovery strap, which is a "snatch strap" type of a device, over a year ago and had yet to use it... until this morning.

I got a bug to head into work early, and it was fortunate, too, because just happened across a car that went into the ditch a few moments before I drove by. I stopped, assessed, hooked up the strap, and one quick pull later the car (a Kia Spectra, IIRC) was up, out, and back on the roadway despite the glared snowpack (e.g., slippery for the recovery vehicle) and at an intersection that would be very busy in another twenty minutes or so!

This is a great way to start one's day. Recovering, not driving the car that's in the ditch; I don't recommend that.

Those Subie's really are worth their weight in gold up there, aren't they?

xwesx · November 2015

slorenzen said:
Those Subie's really are worth their weight in gold up there, aren't they?

Yessir! I used the '08 for this particular task, and I tell you, it was surprisingly simple. That snatch strap, though, is really what made the difference. Not only was it a painless procedure, but it was also a gentle one!

slorenzen · November 2015

xwesx said:

slorenzen said:
Those Subie's really are worth their weight in gold up there, aren't they?
Yessir! I used the '08 for this particular task, and I tell you, it was surprisingly simple. That snatch strap, though, is really what made the difference. Not only was it a painless procedure, but it was also a gentle one!

Is that like a come-along? Or do you have a winch as well? I'm not familiar with this snatch strap...

xwesx · November 2015

Oh, no.

I think it's technical name is a "kinetic energy recovery rope." Basically, it is a braided nylon cord that is designed to stretch, then recoil, sort of like a bungee cord. The advantage is that it creates force multiplication for the recovering vehicle, which can (and does) serve to add a whole lot of extra oomph toward freeing the disabled vehicle. But, you don't want to pull gently with one of these or you're just wasting their potential.

Come-alongs and winches are useful if you have a solidly anchored point from which you're pulling, but those can be difficult to come by at times. In a way, the snatch strap is similar to a compound pulley in a winch setup.

When it comes to vehicle-to-vehicle recovery, I would probably rank usefulness of direct (pull-type) connections in this order, worst to best: Chain, Recovery Strap, Kinetic Recovery Rope. I won't throw winches/come-alongs in there because they can vary from useless (e.g., worse than a chain) to incredibly helpful, and it all depends on the situation. If you have a highly technical situation where distance is a problem (either can't get close or can't drive away) and you have either a distinct weight advantage on the disabled vehicle or are able to chock your vehicle, then either of these can be a real winner.

andres3 · November 2015

Got an argument from someone on another website that airplanes did in fact prove speed was dangerous because of how fatal accidents are when your involved in one. Never mind that airplanes have a track record of being exceedingly safe, and that's even including non-related to the aircraft itself accidents like terrorist plots.

xwesx · November 2015

Darn that gravity!!!!!!!

qbrozen · November 2015

speed is dangerous. bullets prove it. throw a bullet at someone and nothing happens, but fire it from a gun and it kills. proof!

andres3 · November 2015

qbrozen said:
speed is dangerous. bullets prove it. throw a bullet at someone and nothing happens, but fire it from a gun and it kills. proof!

If a Roger Clemens or Nolan Ryan was throwing that bullet when they were in their prime you might think differently

andres3 · December 2015

qbrozen said:
speed is dangerous. bullets prove it. throw a bullet at someone and nothing happens, but fire it from a gun and it kills. proof!

Not to mention the movie the Matrix proved that if you are fast and quick enough, you can simply dodge bullets. So driver's with fast reflexes can handle speed

backy · January 2016

Had an interesting experience yesterday: I drove up to a stop sign at a T intersection with 3-way stop signs. There were cars approaching from my right (pretty far off) and left (pretty close). I came to a full stop and watched as the older Civic to my left made a quick rolling stop and kept going, as I was turning in front of him. I hit the brakes and then hit my horn (my wife's CX-7 has a rich, full-bodied horn). To my amazement, the 25-ish guy in the Civic stopped, backed up to behind the stop sign, and waited for me to turn. Kudos to him for realizing he'd made a mistake and correcting it, rather than blasting through the intersection and aiming an obscene gesture my way as most drivers would do in that situation.

xwesx · January 2016

Hah, no doubt! That's a bit of a reverse-inconsiderate-driver situation. Rare indeed. There is still hope out there!

-----

I can't recall if I shared this way back when it happened, but I thought about it earlier today for some reason.... Last winter, when driving my Fiesta, I pulled up to a stop light, in the left side of the right turn lane (this road is a two-lane-in-each-direction, which spreads to have two dedicated left turns, a straight, a right-only, and a 3' shoulder at the intersection), and looked to my left for oncoming traffic before making my turn. I was in the turn lane with my right signal flashing (on the rear, front, and mirror of the car).

Aside: In my little Fiesta, I would often stay to the left part of dedicated turn lanes as that area is used less often, and therefore is less slick during the winter than the more heavily traveled paths. This is helpful in a little front-one-wheel-drive car.

So, I happen to have a passenger, one of my employees, with me. A few cars drive by and I then have an opening. So, anticipating my opportunity, I look right to ensure the crosswalk is clear, look left, and then go. My passenger lets out a small chirp (sort of a brief surprised yell of alarm), I look right again, and this Outback driver had wedged her car between mine and the sidewalk... and, was going at the same time as me! She couldn't have done much more than just slow down a little in order to have covered that distance in such short order.

I laid on the horn and just continued with my turn, and the other driver finally backed off and fell in behind me. But, as soon as we were on the other road, she flew by me while blowing the horn. LOL Clueless, but righteous, to the end!

I'm not sure what was hard to read about that situation.... she had to practically drive onto the sidewalk to squeeze by me, yet I was in the lane (marked overhead if not on the icy road) with my turn signal active. How does one better telegraph intent?

backy · February 2016

One of those times when one would wish to have James Bond's Aston Martin DB5 with the tire-shredder hubcaps.

andres3 · September 2016

This should be mandatory reading for all driver's seeking out new driver's licenses or renewals in every State of the Union.

http://www.vollynet.org.nz/Speed Limit Law and Fatality Rates.pdf

Failure to read it makes you an inconsiderate driver.

xwesx · October 2016

andres3 said:
This should be mandatory reading for all driver's seeking out new driver's licenses or renewals in every State of the Union.

http://www.vollynet.org.nz/Speed Limit Law and Fatality Rates.pdf

Failure to read it makes you an inconsiderate driver.

I cannot get the link to work; do you have a Cliff Notes version?

andres3 · November 2016

xwesx said:

andres3 said:
This should be mandatory reading for all driver's seeking out new driver's licenses or renewals in every State of the Union.

http://www.vollynet.org.nz/Speed Limit Law and Fatality Rates.pdf

Failure to read it makes you an inconsiderate driver.
I cannot get the link to work; do you have a Cliff Notes version?

Essentially the Cliff Notes are:

1) There are 100 reasons why going slower isn't safer than going faster.
2) A lot of the studies previously published are flawed, biased, incorrect, and/or all of the above for a variety of reasons.
3) Higher speed limits are safe.

xwesx · November 2016

Thanks! I still can't get anything to come up with that link.

The only thing "unsafe" about a higher limit is that there will always be a group of drivers who will drive at or above that speed just because it is the limit (rather than taking into account whether they really should be driving that speed). so, set the SL at 100, and you have some vehicles/drivers who can do that "safely," and others who cannot, yet some of those who cannot will do it anyway.

stevedebi · November 2016

I think that 75 is about as high as speed limits should go, even out west. American cars are not really designed to go fast (like Euro cars generally are), and many states don't have requirements on safety checks for cars like is done in Europe. So a lot of cars would be questionable at higher speeds. Not to mention the minimal driving school requirements in the US - so a lot of drivers also are not safe at high speeds. Just my opinion. I'm all for higher speed limits to a point.

xwesx · November 2016

stevedebi said:
I think that 75 is about as high as speed limits should go, even out west. American cars are not really designed to go fast (like Euro cars generally are), and many states don't have requirements on safety checks for cars like is done in Europe. So a lot of cars would be questionable at higher speeds. Not to mention the minimal driving school requirements in the US - so a lot of drivers also are not safe at high speeds. Just my opinion. I'm all for higher speed limits to a point.

Yep; that's exactly what I'm talking about!

lostwrench1 · December 2016

Ok, my story...............
I was sitting in my car waiting for a friend to return from a store. A lady parked next to my car and when opening her car's door she banged it into mine. Still attempting to exit her car she again banged her car's door into mine. I sounded my horn. She said, "Oh quiet, buddy. My car is newer than yours."

backy · December 2016

You should have gotten out of your car, checked to see if she damaged your car, and if she did ask her to exchange info (licenses, insurance) so that you could contact her insurance company. Then take pictures of the damage to your car (if you have a phone camera). I bet she'd love that.

xwesx · December 2016

I don't even bother to relate the stories anymore. It seems things have gotten so out of hand that the notable trips are the ones where I *don't* come across some a**hat.

gogogodzilla · February 2017

xwesx said:
I don't even bother to relate the stories anymore. It seems things have gotten so out of hand that the notable trips are the ones where I *don't* come across some a**hat.

This is very true.

Just tonight, I saw an untold number of people driving with their headlights off.

And one guy stopped on the interstate, put his car in reverse, and backed up a good distance... all because he missed his exit.

ruking1 · February 2017

Essentially the daylight, rain, etc., mandatory "headlight" law is very close to being universally unenforceable!? The documentation on the argument FOR the legislation/rule was hardly compellin, despite plausible logic. In the real world, where incidntly it really matters, the documentation on how many fatalities, accidents, injuries, property damage have been prevented are not even mandated, let alone kept. There were also no validated data gathering policy procedures collection and documentation. NHTSA lists no catergires.
https://www.nhtsa.gov

It should be obvious that I am NOT saying that it it NOT acontributing factor to one of the safest years ever on NHTSA record. There is just no validated documentation.

To wit, you can pass on two lane roads with ZERO requirements for headlamps on while passing,proceeding on /in the oncoming lane! Now to me, the logic is clear & compelling & I put on the headlamps to high beams, while passing. But,... so what?

Your second scenario happened to a relative. The YAYHOO was stopped to the left of the number one lane, trying to get to the #5 exit! Guess whom the HP cited for "DISTINGUISHED" driving. The relatives insurance tattooed the distinguish drivers insurance company also.

xwesx · February 2017

Yep, I see the "no headlights" scenario daily, whether dark or just low visibility. Heck, I think one of you pointed out that -50F photo I posted a couple weeks ago, where both vehicles in front of me were sans lights. Now, it's possible that one or both had DRLs active, but that does nothing for illumination from behind.

Last night, there was a <=2004 Tacoma that had some sort of headlights (very poor lighting) on, but the back end was completely dark. This is a WHITE truck, in Fairbanks, in the middle of winter. Not genius, for sure!

slorenzen · February 2017

xwesx said:
Yep, I see the "no headlights" scenario daily, whether dark or just low visibility. Heck, I think one of you pointed out that -50F photo I posted a couple weeks ago, where both vehicles in front of me were sans lights. Now, it's possible that one or both had DRLs active, but that does nothing for illumination from behind.

Last night, there was a <=2004 Tacoma that had some sort of headlights (very poor lighting) on, but the back end was completely dark. This is a WHITE truck, in Fairbanks, in the middle of winter. Not genius, for sure!</p>

If you want to improve your lighting, check out this company: http://ddmtuning.com/index.php

They have LED lights available that will really be nice, especially up there where it can be DARK...

I installed some HID's from them, and I've been really happy with their products.

xwesx · February 2017

Nice; thanks for the link, @slorenzen!

When you installed the HIDs, did you need to replace your assemblies, or were they able to handle the heat while still putting out a beam pattern that doesn't blind other drivers?

slorenzen · February 2017

xwesx said:
Nice; thanks for the link, @slorenzen!

When you installed the HIDs, did you need to replace your assemblies, or were they able to handle the heat while still putting out a beam pattern that doesn't blind other drivers?

Nope, they replaced the existing halogen bulbs. There were ballasts required, but I just tie-wrapped them to the existing wiring harness.

Also, for the HIDs, they warned me not to get the 55 Watt bulbs, just the 35 watt, as the 55's would melt the housings.

I don't know about the LED's, but they have a support number you can call for advice. Up where you live, I'd want all the light I could get. I'm in a rural area of Oregon, and on dark rainy nights, I really appreciate the light I get from these HID's. BTW, the "color" of my bulbs are the 5000. Very very WHITE, with just a hint of blue.

xwesx · February 2017

Good to know, thanks! If either of these options last longer than the halogens I use now, I am all over it. I have to replace the bulbs *at least* annually (for low beams). My 2010 Forester has wonderful lighting, though. I used to put "moose lights" on all my vehicles, but never felt the need with this one.

slorenzen · February 2017

xwesx said:
Good to know, thanks! If either of these options last longer than the halogens I use now, I am all over it. I have to replace the bulbs *at least* annually (for low beams). My 2010 Forester has wonderful lighting, though. I used to put "moose lights" on all my vehicles, but never felt the need with this one.

I had been using the "Silverlight" halogens for a while, but they'd burn out every couple years. These HID's are 3 years old, and I'm told they last a long time. The LED's have a half-life of about 20 years, so...

xwesx · February 2017

The LEDs are what caught my eye. Long life, low consumption, and probably wouldn't have to worry about people feeling blinded by them.

I would need to call them to find out if I need to leave the rear seal off the housing with these (looks like it with the cooling units), as that makes me a little nervous due to moisture and corrosion.

xwesx · February 2017

Roads up here are incredibly slick right now (even by Alaska standards), and we're seeing an uptick in rollovers. One of my employees had a vehicle spin out and roll just in front of him on the Parks Highway on Sunday! Fun stuff!
Care and consistency go a long way, but physics is still physics. I slid through an intended right turn into my parking lot this morning - there was no traction to slow at all, so my 15-20 mph on approach didn't decelerate much before I decided to abort and move on to the next turn.

andres3 · October 2017

Since my last link was broken, I'll post the pertinent Driving 202 and 303 Advanced Reading material here:

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/lyingwsc.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-point.html
https://priceonomics.com/is-every-speed-limit-too-low/
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/publicroads/13sepoct/02.cfm
https://www.autoinsurancecenter.com/driving-slow-in-the-left-lane-is-dumb-and-illegal.htm
https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/09/18/is-driving-faster-safer/

I'm starting to do a better job of keeping bookmarks for links to sites that make sense.

PF_Flyer · November 2017

There are so many lunatics on the roads around here now that I've been remiss in citing their exploits lately. Red light runners are just too run of the mill now to get too excited about. But someone earned it this morning.

I come to a traffic light, get in the left turn lane behind a van to turn into the shopping center. We have a green light, but the green arrow has gone off. Steady traffic coming the other way, so we're just going to have to wait. About 5 or 6 cars go by, and the van driver apparently decides that they've had enough and decides to make the left in front of one of these:

who has to slam the brakes and swerve to avoid the collision. (A very good, not quite great, move)

The vehicles behind him reacted well too.

There was NOT a space to go through, even though they made it.

Being "on alert" 100% of the time while driving is wearing on me

xwesx · November 2017

Well, it is things like this that happen when you are not. Winter here now, and my biggest peeves remain well in play:

1. Inconsiderate drivers who have no problem clogging up multi-lane roads by driving 15-20 mph under the speed limit, either equal to or maybe 1 mph faster than traffic in the other lane(s). As always, drive however slow you feel you and your vehicle can handle, and do it knowing (and respecting) that others' limits differ!

2. Parking ignorance. Even though it is, in most cases, a simple process to deduce the proper location and orientation of parking spaces, people (most of whom park in these same spaces year-round!) feign ignorance of these details and park however and wherever they prefer.

andres3 · November 2017

Had a guy in a Dodge Ram (Okay RAM is independent now) with a small trailer not want to use his reverse gear. He got mad as our swarm of "damn little Audi's" as he put it, surrounded him. It was his fault, he parked right in the middle of an un-striped lot.

Anyway, apparently his reverse wasn't working (my best guess being a Dodge Transmission), as he insisted 3 guys move their 3 cars so he could move forward and out without having to back up.

elias · December 2017

a3, i bet all you audi dudes gladly moved your cars, considering the possible alternatives if the truck doofus tried to reverse. you KNOW the dude was doing yall a big favor in the big picture! btw, didn't know ram was independent now, thanks for the heads up on that.

As a car-only-driver I avoid reversing since reverse has resulted in 100% of my very-few unintended-vehicular-contact situations in 40 years of driving.

I began personal 'no left turns unless no reasonable alternative' policy years before UPS & Fedex mandated the same for their drivers. Especially in city/urban driving. Passenger(s) tend to "comment" about that policy to this day as it often takes 4 or more right turns to do what a one u-turn or left-turn can provide.

xwesx · December 2017

elias said:
a3, i bet all you audi dudes gladly moved your cars, considering the possible alternatives if the truck doofus tried to reverse. you KNOW the dude was doing yall a big favor in the big picture! btw, didn't know ram was independent now, thanks for the heads up on that.

I'm sure you're right about that, Elias! There are quite a few folks out there who are quite wiling to pull trailers, but quite unable to wrap their heads around the concept of backing one.

I feel fortunate that my father practiced trailer backing with us quite a bit when we were learning to drive. He even went so far as to put out cones for parallel parking, and doing so with a trailer was on the list of "must dos," not because we would actually do that some day, but because being able to do so demonstrated to him that we had a high level of control over the maneuver. That said, we didn't have any short wheelbase trailers, like an ATV trailer, and it took a little while to get the hang of just how reactive those are when backing them. The one we used, which was an 18' double-axle flat bed, was responsive in a very gentle sort of way.

The time I parked his 38' motorhome between two BMWs with about 3' total to spare (18" per side) convinced me that there was value in his dogged persistence about such matters.

PF_Flyer · March 2018

On a road trip to the Cincinnati area this weekend, and it's like the LLC's have come out from winter hibernation!

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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