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Highlander Hybrid Brake Problems

13

Comments

  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    edited February 2010
    I have never felt our non-hybrid ABS-equipped cars activating the ABS more frequently on cold days. This is true even after nights and days of low to mid 20's and driving in snow and slush. Our HiHy is the only one of our cars that does this "gap". Your hypothesis is very intriguing because my wife just made a surprising claim this morning.

    She said our HH "gap" frequency has dropped significantly since switching to snow tires. This "slip/gap/lurch" normally occurs right from the first cold-morning start. The first gap almost always happen as we coast down our steep driveway. Then twice or thrice more as we hit various stop signs and traffic lights before getting on the freeway. That was the pattern earlier this winter and every winter since 2005.

    Now, it rarely happens. I actually cannot remember it happening since we put on our snow tires.

    Could it be that All-Season hardens in cold weather and the car is detecting something that we cannot feel in normal driving? So ABS turns on sooner as you suggest?

    May be snow tires remain pliable and soft in low temperature so it is less likely to actuate the ABS?

    THis is just a wild guess right now. We will try to be more alert about this and report back if we have any concrete repeatable observations.
  • hsalwenhsalwen Member Posts: 4
    The fact is, mine is not a gap. Once the regen stops, it brakes via disk brakes only until the car is stopped. On the other hand, if I momentarily release the brakes and reapply, the regen + disk braking is back!

    Since some of us have slightly different symptoms, I would guess that we have slightlt different software updates..

    They should hire me! I could fix our wagons... Just kidding
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited February 2010
    "..I have never felt.."

    Again, a non-hybrid NEVER applies braking to ONLY the front wheels. In point of fact with a non-hybrid light braking results in more braking capability apportioned to the rear wheels than when moderate or heavy braking is being used.

    With a FWD hybrid using regen braking the front wheels, ONLY the front wheels. are being used for braking. Thus I would fully expect one of these hybrids to activate ABS's transition to frictional braking more often than a non-hybrid ABS standard activation, given equivalent conditions overall.
  • 400e400e Member Posts: 41
    Intriguing idea!

    In retrospect, certainly does seem to be a MUCH more common experience in my HH in cold weather compared to warm weather -

    Would the theory apply to 4WD HH's like mine? Seems like the same principle (i.e. a pre-emptive move from regen to friction when weather is cold) could apply - in other words, maybe the engineers figured that cold weather = higher likelihood of slippery surfaces, and so write the program to proactively get the brakes ready for ABS to run if needed.
  • 400e400e Member Posts: 41
    back to wwest's comments -

    your comment about "gain" made me think of that term in another way. The thing I find disconcerting about the "braking gap" is not the gap itself - it lasts maybe 0.5 sec or so - it's the fact that when the friction brakes kick in after the gap, the "gain" if you will is turned down and the driver has to hit the pedal harder to get the same braking effect.

    As I think about it, it would seem that it must be difficult for the engineers to perfectly match the two braking systems in terms of X amt of pedal force translates to Y amt of brake application. Perhaps they programmed the system so that when friction brakes kick in, they will, if anything, apply somewhat more "lightly" than regen? If they had biased the program the other way (friction > regen), the brakes would suddenly apply harder than intended and our cars would lurch to a sudden stop. Of the two outcomes, maybe they figured the former scenario was preferable?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..the driver has to hit the brake harder..."

    Are you really sure about that...??

    Our natural, HARD to overcome, instinct when we feel that "lurch" forward is to immediately apply the brakes harder. Not that it would be easy, but have you ever tried just maintaining a constant brake pressure to see if the frictional brake, once that take effect, comes on at the same braking level...?

    Personally were I the design engineer writing the firmware specifications I would want the frictional brake to come online with even more braking ability than was just being used with regen.

    But then maybe that's what the new firmware "reflash" does.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..the "gain" if you will is turned down..."

    Might that actually be a conditional situation based on the current, INSTANT, frictional coefficient of the brake pads themselves..?

    For instance the rotors being wet would undoubtedly result in having to press the brakes harder to get the same braking effect.

    Regen to frictional braking transition... not an easy firmware specification to write.

    Conundrum, for sure.
  • avucarguyavucarguy Member Posts: 56
    edited February 2010
    I agree with you. I have an 07 Prius with 62K miles. It does do the weird loss of braking once in a while, lasting less than a second, when hitting a bump while braking. This has never caused me any trouble. I think every one is so paranoid with the Toyota brake issues. Everyone is so focused on any small change on how the brakes on their Toyota behaves.
    If some of you are so worried about this "brake" problem, trade your Toyota in for another brand GM/Ford/ect. Don't stress yourselves out and get a heart attack or a stomach ulcer.
    As for myself, I will keep my Prius as long as possible to see how many miles I can put on it. Toyota and Honda are are the most reliable brands I ever owned in my 24 years of driving.
  • mikeg333mikeg333 Member Posts: 11
    cdptrap: "I believe braking is continuing but it is the switch from regen to mechanical that is causing this "sensation"."

    I do not believe that braking is happening for that split second with my car. There is a definite increase in speed when it happens. Not a sensation. It goes like this:

    1. Apply brake at low speeds-Car slows down.
    2. Slippage occurs-Car coasts and speeds up.
    3. Brakes re-engage, car slows down and stops. Sometimes an abrupt stop to make up for increased stopping distance.

    I have noticed this on totally dry smooth roads. Bumpy roads. Wet roads, snowy roads, etc. All conditions and most times when ABS should not be needed.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "....split second..."

    Yes, probably the 100 milliseconds or so it takes to open the electrically operated solenoid that controls the ABS pressure porting manifold, and then another 100 milliseconds or so for the hyraulic pressure to "push" the brake pads into firm contact with the brake rotor.

    "......ABS should not be needed..."

    And if you weren't driving a FWD hybrid most likely "ABS" wouldn't be needed. I would imagine that during regen ONLY braking the ABS's ECU might be more sensitive, higher "gain", to the slowing of a braking wheel. Maybe even moreso, incrementally higher gain as putside temperature falls near freezing level.

    The easier, quicker, regen braking slows the wheel(s) the more important it becomes to switch braking modes. A slight bump in the roadbed, slippery crosswalk stripping, a railway rail, anything that results in a braking wheel momentarily losing contact with the roadbed, and regen gets instantly cancelled.

    What you are feeling is most likely NOT actual ABS activation, but the "switch" to a braking mode that CAN be controlled via the anti-lock system should the need arise.
  • paracletosparacletos Member Posts: 12
    I appreciate that you're a Toyota fan. My '06 Highlander Hybrid has also been among my favorites. However, I have been disappointed that since '06, when I first reported the problem to Toyota, they have been unresponsive and denied that the problem existed. I'm one who doesn't complain and wasn't looking for a lawsuit. And, no, I didn't know anything about all the other problems that are now surfacing regarding hybrid braking. What I do know is that my vehicle occasionally experiences a "gap" in braking friction during a forced transition from regin braking and stops further than anticipated. I bumped the car in front of me the first time I experienced the problem and not expecting it. It could have been a person at a crosswalk. That's not paranoia - it's a legitimate concern. If there is a software fix, then all of us should get it! Though we shouldn't have to pay for it, I would buy it.
  • ceezoorsceezoors Member Posts: 4
    Yes I experienced that effect over a dozen times with my car. I just traded it in last week. It was a 2006 Highlander Hybrid. It would surge/accelerate for 1-2 seconds unexpectedly when applying the brake. About a year ago, this defect issue also started to include the cruise control...when I would brake when on cruise, it would do the same. I had taken it to the dealer twice and they ran diagnostics and didn't get to witness the defect. It came back "'no codes stored'. You will want to watch ABC's World News Tonight video on how it could be caused by an electronic componet and displayed as such. It also shows the same code when ran through diagnostics. There are also 8 reports on NHTSA's website for 2006 Highlanders having the same/similar issues and a couple which ended in crashes, with one driver being faulted for accelerating, which I believe was caused by the defect, not the driver. After reading those and still going through unexpected surge/acceleration encounters, I felt it was best for me to own a different vehicle. I no longer felt safe driving it, which is unfortunate, because I really liked my car other than this issue. I don't believe this issue is at all normal, but the dealer may tell you different. The dealer here thought my car was safe to drive, however he had no idea how he would feel if it was his car or any one he particularly cared deeply about being in a car with the potential to injure/disable or kill those in the car or another vehicle. Hmmm...?
  • ceezoorsceezoors Member Posts: 4
    Mine would happen unexpectedly and either immediately upon braking or after a few seconds of slowing down. Check out the NHTSA's website and ABC's World News Tonight concerning electronic system in Toyota with theory proven.
  • ceezoorsceezoors Member Posts: 4
    The dealer I went to denied there was an issue and said "it was safe". And yet, we are seeing something different.
  • bryankmbryankm Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2010
    I just found this thread last night and I wish I saw it earlier because that braking flaw finally caught up with me and there was nothing I could do but crash.

    Here's what happened:

    I was traveling home from business and was heading northbound on NY State Thruway 87 with traffic more to the heavy side but moving smoothly, weather conditions were excellent. Well apparently a goat had wandered onto the Thruway and a tractor trailer driver locked up the brakes to stop for it. The few cars between myself and the tractor trailer quickly moved over to the left lane with the last one swerving almost at the last second. I moved my foot over to the brake seeing that there was probably slow moving traffic ahead and when I saw the truck, it didn't have brake lights or flashers on so it took me a moment to process that he was standing still. Well I had to make a quick decision: the left lane was blocked for me because everyone else had swerved to it, the right shoulder had a guard rail from the underpass I had just went under; I thought I could try to get through the small gap between the truck and the guard rail but I thought I might flip if I hit the rail too hard so I chose to square up on the truck's bumper and stood on the brake pedal and that was at about 90 to 100 yards till impact. Well the anti-locks started out well and I felt 5 to 10 pulses of the brake then (just as all of you have described and we all know happens with this vehicle) the brakes stop and the vehicle is coasting but doing it at 50+mph. The Highlander continues coasting for 40+ yards (1 to 2 seconds as I recall) before the anti-locks start working again but at this time it was too late and I hit the tractor trailers rear bumper at about 50mph and stopped dead (the bumper on the trailer was too high for the Highlander's frame so the bulk of the deceleration occurred at the motor and passenger compartment, 50mph to 0 in about 3 or 4 inches.) The collision guys couldn't believe I walked away from the accident, they told me that 'high hits' at that speed against tractor trailers are almost always deaths or paralysis at best. I am messed up for sure, hands and feet are numb and back and neck are incredibly painful. I have bruises that run from my ankle right up to my knee from the dash board and my right knee split open also from the dash. I had a large goose egg on the crown of my head from where the high hit of the trucks bumper drove the vehicle down. All in all, I shouldn't be here writing this post but could easily be in a funeral home somewhere waiting from my family to have me buried.

    I called Toyota several times about this and no one has ever called me back. Last year, after the Prius recall, I wrote an email to the US Department of Transportation telling them that the Toyota 2007 Highlander Hybrid has the very same failure mode (I.e., brakes not functioning consistently during rough driving conditions.)

    Reading through the previous posts here, my vehicle did the exact same thing as the rest of yours does. I know of at least three failure modes on my Highlander Hybrid and they have been described here previously but here they are as I know them: 1) the low speed surge while the regenerative braking system switches to friction braking, 2) stopping on slippery roads especially ice and slush, the anti-lock brakes stop functioning and don't work again till the vehicle is almost at rest 3) under rough driving conditions the brakes will stop working for 1 to 2 seconds before re-engaging ... which was the one that resulted in such a bad collision for me.

    My advice to those of you who still have Highlander Hybrids is don't except any excuses from Toyota or the dealership. This is Toyota not doing the right thing because I'm sure they are aware of the problem. I had learned to live with the failure modes in the braking system like the rest of you have but one day you might be faced with the same situation as I just was and have to watch a stationary object (like a tractor trailer) come at you like a freight train and know there is nothing you can do about it.

    I'll try to post pictures if I can ... pretty nasty looking I can tell you.
  • paracletosparacletos Member Posts: 12
    I have not been watching posts for several months, but this is the first I've heard of this problem happening at high speed. Sorry for what has happened here, and thankful you're ok. This post merited a response from me because, for the first time I noticed the "gap" in braking friction after hitting a bump on the Xway recently. I had hoped this was only a low speed problem but now am concerned since I was traveling at about 60mph. It has not been my sense that all braking disappears momentarily - but rather a significant reduction in braking friction, which definitely increases the rate of closure on a stationary object. Did your brakes seem to fail altogether or was it more as I have described?
  • bryankmbryankm Member Posts: 4
    Paracletos, They failed all together; there was no braking for as described above about 1 to 2 seconds. I never did have it happen at a speed higher than 45 mph before but I don't have to stop quickly from high speeds too often so maybe it was just a combination of factors coming together at once and probability.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    Holy smokes!! I don't think I've ever seen a car damaged that badly, with the driver walking away relatively intact. Really glad that you at least made it out alive. Those are amazing.

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  • paracletosparacletos Member Posts: 12
    If there is anything good to say about Toyota in this situation it is that the SUV stood up to an enormous collision with the passenger compartment remaining intact. Of course there's the bad part - where the brakes contributed to the problem. The ugly? That's what remains of the Highlander! Glad the driver is OK.
  • bryankmbryankm Member Posts: 4
    Actually, what I think saved me was that I have competed in Olympic Weightlifting for many years. I honestly think most people including my family would not have survived that impact or at the very least wouldn't have walked away from it. My body was pushed to the very limit and it is used to absorbing impacts, I hesitate to think of what might have happened if my wife or 7 year old son had been in the Highlander with me. I do give the Toyota structural engineers props though, the cabin bore more of the forces of the crash then I think most designers would even consider and it held up well ( 1 to 2 inches of compression)
  • app2app2 Member Posts: 2
    I have the same problem with my Highlander Hybrid '06. It gets worst during cold months. I first noticed it during winter months when I was still in Pennsylvania and then when I moved to California it became less. I complained this issue many times to the dealership services but they only told me that its the regeneration of the brake system with hybrid system. They said I will get use to it. I dont know what they really meant about, what does a woman knows about stuff like that. But it was pretty much of a big deal to me because its a safety issue, plus I always have kids riding with me. When i read your post and others it became clear to me i am not crazy. I will surely file a complaint about this. Thanks for the link.
  • app2app2 Member Posts: 2
    I have the same brake problem with my '06 Highlander hybrid. It slip very often particularly during cold season. The dealership just ignore me and said I will just get use to it. Many times I have avoided accident related to the brake problems, i would say i am proud to be a very defensive driver but the question is how long i can avoid it. By the way, the inverter broke down while I was travelling with kids on a busy freeway after 56k miles and just had the major service done prior to incident. The engine suddenly shut down while driving 70mph on a freeway, it wont turn on again. The inverter cost $8200 to replace it. It may happen to you too if you still own the Hi hybrid. I filed complaint to NHTSA, Toyota really need to address the problem. Its a safety issue.
  • myrafmyraf Member Posts: 32
    Hi i have had the same problem with my 2006 toyota hh,what have you done about the nverta,did the dealer take care of the repairs,please respond,there are a lot of us out there who have had the same problems,we need to get together
  • paracletosparacletos Member Posts: 12
    I've simply informed Toyota (twice) and told the dealer about the issue. Toyota doesn't acknowledge that a problem exists. The dealer mechanics have acknowledged it in asking them about it - but offer no fix. I believe it is simply seen by dealers as an "eccentricity" of the regen braking and not a safety hazard. And Toyota would rather it disappear until a major problem is discovered. I no of nothing to do other than re-think my braking closure rate to allow for the "slip."
  • mimersmimers Member Posts: 7
    I recommend filing a complaint online with the National Highway and Transportation (NHTSA). It takes 2 minutes, and that is the way that we can all band together to show that there is a problem, regardless of what Toyota says!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited November 2010
    "..everything "heats" up.."

    Yes, including the tire treads.....

    Keep in mind that you are driving a FWD vehicle that is potentially a very DANGEROUS vehicle to be driving on a wintertime adverse condition, slippery, roadbed. Add to that the fact that your hybrid "wants to" make use of regen braking, FRONT WHEEL BRAKING ONLY, as a priority, a HIGH priority, and you have a somewhat (potentially) deadly mix of technologies.

    Loss if traction, even momentarily so, on the driven, FRONT, wheels of your vehicle is a matter that requires INSTANT and URGENT attention. On a standard FWD with TC even the slightest level of wheelspin/slip arising from too much engine torque being used for conditions will result in INSTANT TC activation, engine dethrottling and braking of the engine driven wheels.

    ABS is simply the "inverse" of TC, prevention of wheel lockup or skidding MUST be attended to INSTANTLY otherwise loss of directional control leading to an accident it far too likely.

    So, with even the detection of the slightest level of impending (IMPENDING) front wheel lockup or skidding due to regen braking the braking mode MUST be switched. Regen braking, FRONT ONLY BRAKING, must be quickly disabled in favor of frictional braking ONLY, front and REAR frictional braking.

    So, now, how should that transition be handled...?

    The initial application of frictional braking in this instance MUST be, by default, calculated at the factory to be LOWER than the previous regen level. Otherwise we would soon find ourselves in the very same "boat"....impending wheel lockup/skidding and continuing ABS intervention.

    So yes, in these instances, transitions from regen braking ONLY to frictional braking as a result of impending wheel lockup detection there MUST BE a transitional period of "lighter" braking. I don't see that the design engineers had much of a choice in this matter.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    On the hybrid Escape series Ford uses a regen braking control technique wherein the level of regen braking allowed before transitioning to combined regen and frictional is modified as a function of OAT. The colder it gets the less regen braking will be allowed before frictional braking is included.

    Your HH might well have the same feature. And/Or more likely the "gain" used to detect impending lockup is increased as the OAT declines below, say, 35F.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited November 2010
    The new FWD or F/awd Ford Explorer has a new technology they refer to as Curve Control. It seems to operate by dethrottling the engine and the use of braking if the system decides that you're driving to fast for the road curvature.

    It'l be interesting to know how well that works in real life conditions....
  • paracletosparacletos Member Posts: 12
    Forgot to mention that I did post the incident on NHTSA months ago.
  • utschyutschy Member Posts: 1
    I agree with you. I have called toyota who tell me to see a dealer. Why, so they can charge me $100 to tell me nothing is wrong with my vehicle. I can't tell you all how happy I am to have found this forum so I know I'm not crazy.
    In my experience the slight shift of acceleration or lurching forward happens at less than 15mph and maybe at even less than 10mph. It is just very surprising and disturbing when you have to "all of a sudden" add extra braking power as you are coming to a stop.
  • winokwinok Member Posts: 1
    Contacting Toyota or Gov has proved useless in spite of similar problems on other models of Toyota.
    They will only pay attention to a class action suit unless there deaths (see acceleration problems).
    Let's get together and sue them and maybe we'll get their attention!!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    That "lurch forward" is the result of the coastdown full fuel cut technique being disabled due to the road speed now being too low to sustain the engine above stall.

    During coastdown periods the engine is starved of fuel, FULLY starved, and the transaxle is sequentially downshifted in order to keep the engine turning over above the point of stalling. Once a "too" low speed is reached fuel flow is restored and the transaxle is upshifted. That last bit is why you feel a "lurch forward", due to the "relaxation" of engine compression braking.
  • almjalmj Member Posts: 1
    I drove 2009 Highlander in Oct 18 2012 at 2:30 from the dealership,and at 12:00am Oct 19 2012,it was back in the dealership parking lot.I hit the side barrier and no air bag were enagged, as i side the side of the truck which kept on moving in spite pressing the brakes.
    The truck slipped in black ice at 60 kmh, and failed to be controlled as the brakes did not even slow down it as there were dry patches too,but i did not have winter tires then.I got this truck repaired on Dec 18th 2012.
    The highlander was in the dealership body shop for two months.
    After driving for three weeks,Jan 22nd 2013, i had a second accident this at the speed of 25kmh at the play ground zone as the second car ahead stopped with no apparent reason,but my brakes failed again,this time had to apply the brakes hard as the low end delivery truck did and the highlander brakes failed even after pressing hard.
    My first cost for the repairs were paid by my insurance and it was $15000
  • lamovieslamovies Member Posts: 2
    My Highlander has 68,349 miles and I've owned it since it was brand new. This week my brakes have failed to work when shifting from park into gear while brake is fully engaged. Warning lights flash but don't stay on long enough to read. Brakes then worked within a couple seconds and the car operated normally until shifting gears. Problem is escalating however, because now the brakes stop working for a second or two, intermittently, when driving. My brake fluid is normal. I'm bringing it in to dealership tomorrow but ask that anyone experiencing brake issues report them immediately to the NHSC. They investigate after 100 filed complaints and although their are hundreds of blogs reporting this issue, as of 12-5-13 I saw only 12 complaints filed. Mine should be up in the next 72 hours.
  • lamovieslamovies Member Posts: 2
    I meant to say that I recommend filing a complaint online with the National Highway and Transportation (NHTSA). Please excuse the error.
  • paulw10paulw10 Member Posts: 1
    I have a new and different 2007 Highlander Hybrid braking problem. My left rear brake is running extremely hot. So hot, that I have burned my fingers touching the rotor. (All of the other 3 rotors are running fine; barely any warmer than the outside temperature. And, the rear brakes, calipers, and rotors were just replaced by the dealership about 7 months ago. The car has 166K miles on it, and there are no outward signs of a brake problem other than a hot smell and touch. No noise, skips, or any actual braking problem whatsoever.) I took the car to the dealership, they checked it out, and told me everything was fine. Specifically, the service tech wrote, "Pins are free, pads are free, calipers are free, no hot spots on rotors. No issue found at this time."
    That brake is still running just as hot, as I almost burned another finger checking it. Where do I go from here?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    edited March 2015
    Brakes are going to be hot to the touch if you have been driving around and using them, so describing them as hot to the touch seems normal. That's basically how your brakes work. They change the kinetic energy of your moving car into heat. If your left rear brake was actually dragging, first off, you might feel it in the form of the car pulling a bit. But the rotor would get REALLY hot and probably warp and the service tech would have seen evidence of that.

    Since you had the rotors changed, the smell could have come from the protective coating on the rotors that keeps them from rusting as they sit on the shelf waiting to be installed. A lot of people also notice a burning or hot smell when you replace exhaust parts. Same thing there. The protective coating burns off, but it's normal. If the brakes smelled hot, it's because they are. That smell will dissipate as the coating burns away. Have you checked the other brakes? I'd wager they may be just as hot and it's just that the smell got your attention and you noticed how hot rotors actually get.

    I had a brake pad start to drag on a rotor one time. After about a 10 mile trip to the store one evening, I parked and noticed a hot smell. When I got out and looked at the wheel where I thought the smell was coming from, the rotor was glowing red! So if something was touching as you were driving, you'd know.
  • my9kidsdadmy9kidsdad Member Posts: 2
    Bought a 2006 HH (57,208 miles) from a dealer last month for my daughter, noticed the "transition" in the braking as the vehicle is almost at a stop. For us,so far, we feel this change in how the braking feels only in the last second or two of braking, as the vehicle is almost at a stop. I have been interested to read the experience of others here.
    Brought it back to dealer last week, they report to me today that I am feeling the transition from regenerative braking to friction braking, and it is normal. In other (my) words, get used to it, this is how this vehicle brakes. For now, I am willing to monitor this issue on this car, since we bought a 1-yr warranty and the braking distance does not seem to be affected. I will monitor this forum and would appreciate any updates about Toyota service bulletins or recalls.
  • my9kidsdadmy9kidsdad Member Posts: 2
    Resolution to my issue just above in the previous post: I was never comfortable with the way the braking felt, plus there was some sort of pump (the dealer said it was the ABS pump, but I think it is the brake actuator) that would continue to run after the engine was turned off. Brought it back to the dealer a couple of times, they always told me it was normal. I did not believe them, the pump would sometimes run for 15 or 30 minutes. No way that was normal. Finally, the power assist on the brakes gave out entirely, fortunately not at an unsafe moment for my daughter. So glad I bought that one-year warranty. They replaced the entire ABS pump unit (brake actuator?), a large square thing on the passenger side right at the top front of the engine compartment. A $1300 repair completely covered by warranty. Braking now feels completely normal, no pump noises after the engine is turned off. Of course, dealer could not explain why all that "normal" noise and jerky braking went away. Car has performed flawlessly ever since - has been about a year.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    edited June 2017

    Resolution to my issue just above in the previous post: I was never comfortable with the way the braking felt, plus there was some sort of pump (the dealer said it was the ABS pump, but I think it is the brake actuator) that would continue to run after the engine was turned off. Brought it back to the dealer a couple of times, they always told me it was normal. I did not believe them, the pump would sometimes run for 15 or 30 minutes. No way that was normal.

    The ABS pump and brake actuator are one and the same. The pump you likely heard running was the accumulator pump that in other systems provides assist, in a hybrid it supplies the actual braking pressure. When you are applying the brake pedal in your hybrid you are not actually applying the brakes, you are giving a command to a computer that in turn decides how to stop the vehicle. What you are describing was that pump failing to fully pressurize the accumulator.


    Finally, the power assist on the brakes gave out entirely, fortunately not at an unsafe moment for my daughter. So glad I bought that one-year warranty. They replaced the entire ABS pump unit (brake actuator?), a large square thing on the passenger side right at the top front of the engine compartment.

    http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/63-highlander-hybrid/1355025-toyota-extending-warranty-coverage-brake-actuator-assembly.html


    A $1300 repair completely covered by warranty. Braking now feels completely normal, no pump noises after the engine is turned off. Of course, dealer could not explain why all that "normal" noise and jerky braking went away. Car has performed flawlessly ever since - has been about a year.

    Why should the dealer be able to explain "why"? First, you aren't talking to a technician you were talking to a service writer and many service writers were never technicians. From there with everything that has been happening to the technicians over the last twenty to thirty years to drive labor costs down for the dealers and all of the constant attacks that serve to deprive the techs of any self esteem (and more) it shouldn't be a surprise that you are finding more junior technicians that can replace parts but aren't capable of much more because they haven't been in the career long enough to learn that much. FWIW. It takes decades for the average person to learn everything you need and expect them to know and there is no reason for anyone to stay in the career that long.
  • flackoneflackone Member Posts: 6
    I googled Brake Actuator Toyota Highlander Hybrid 2006 and seems that Toyota has extended the warranty for this part, and the full document link is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dy87hy0ie4p9yh/T-CP-ZG1-A110-D.pdf?dl=0

    Hope this helps someone!
  • RenfrewiteRenfrewite Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, my nephew took the tires off to see what parts he would need to put on new brake pads and rotors, but after he put the tires back on there was a buzzing sounds when I use the brakes now, and it keeps buzzing until I shut the vehicle off, any ideas how to get it to stop buzzing? He has replaced the pads and rotors, and it's still buzzing and driving me crazy. Oh and the brakes now don't grab as good as they did before as well.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,742
    Are there any warning lights on? Has anyone connected a scan tool and pulled codes from ALL of the modules on the car? Can you tell the source of the sound if you lift the hood while it is occurring?
  • lizthewizlizthewiz Member Posts: 2
    I have the same problem as the others regarding the brakes. I purchased a 2021 Toyota Highlander Hybrid about 2 months ago and have noticed about a dozen times where the brake stops working and even surges for a fraction of a second. It appears to occur when I'm driving toward a decline, like when I'm braking to stop at an intersection as I'm traveling down a hill. It is definitely not due to my driving behavior, as my husband has experienced the same thing while driving this vehicle. I've had other Toyotas in the past, as well as many other types of vehicle, and this is the first time that I've experienced a loss of brakes. It seems quite dangerous, as I've had to hit the brakes harder when this occurs. I've posted the problem on the NHTSA website and have complained to Toyota manufacturer. I've offered to have the manufacturer take my car to investigate it, but so far they've declined. My dealership says there's nothing wrong with the car and it showed no error codes when it was checked. I'm going to continue to press this issue, because I believe someone could get hurt if it is not fixed.
  • andersonn119andersonn119 Member Posts: 2
    Is my raptor compatible of getting installed with marine speakers?
  • lizthewizlizthewiz Member Posts: 2
    I bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid about 6 months ago. It was a lightly used vehicle with approximately 1700 miles. Shortly after the purchase, I experienced random, intermittent brake problems whereby the brakes would stop working for a fraction of a second as I was going downhill or on a decline. When these events occurred, I would slam hard on the brakes. Then the brakes would kick in again and stop. It was scary, as I never experienced anything like that before and these events were occurring as I was trying to slow down or come to a stop at a crosswalk. I contacted Toyota corporate office about the problem and opened a case. They sent me to my dealership to have the car inspected. The dealership found that no error codes had been triggered and told me that there was nothing wrong with the car when I KNEW something was seriously wrong. I am a seasoned driver and my husband also experienced the same thing while driving my car. Initially, both the corporate office and my dealership claimed that there were no problems with my brakes and made it seem like I was just not used to the feel of brakes on a hybrid. However, I've owned several other Toyota hybrid vehicles and this was the first time I experienced these brake issues. After I researched online and handed them evidence of dozens of similar complaints by other Toyota owners, my dealership began taking me more seriously. I also gave them notes of all the times and places where my brake problem had occurred. I felt that it was important to document everything in the event I got into an accident that was not my fault but was caused by brake failure. Ultimately, I ended up leaving my car at the dealership for several days to have them test drive it to try to duplicate the problem. Since the dealership was located in an area that had flat streets, the technician was not able to duplicate the problem. However, they researched possible causes of the problem and recalibrated the electrical brake ECU on my car. Since getting the recalibration, I have not experienced brake failures. So for all of you out there who are experiencing similar brake problems, insist that your dealership do a recalibration of the electrical brake ECU. Escalate it to whomever you need to, because it is a serious safety issue. A
  • andersonn119andersonn119 Member Posts: 2

    Is my raptor compatible of getting installed with marine speakers?

    I found a very useful piece of material that is very helpful to me.
  • Aubrey123Aubrey123 Member Posts: 1
    An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure
  • Leighton098Leighton098 Member Posts: 1
    I would like to report a problem with the 2006 Highlander Hybrid braking system that also affects the Prius and the Lexus RX.
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