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Seriously though, at first I was going to title the posting Cougar Reliability or something like that. I guess I deleted the "Reliability" a little hastily.
Sorry about that... didn't mean to get any of you excited about some new breed.
Now, these days, cars are pretty complicated devices. They're also really cheap considering all the parts that are in them. What this means is that all the parts in them are cheap. One characteristic of the assemblage of a large number of cheap parts is that the mean time before failure is pretty short. I don't think the Cougar is specially bad in this respect. The only really crummy thing I've found is the radio; everything else is pretty competent.
Now, Toyota seems to maintain a higher standard in this respect; the general feeling is that Toyotas don't break. Maybe so, but then you're stuck with a Toyota; at least if it broke, it would have done something interesting.
It is also the case that cars which are driven enthusiastically break more than those which are solely used as transportation modules; a lot of us drive that way. If the shifter comes off in your hand, just bolt it back on and keep driving.
Anyway, don't be afraid of the Cougar from a reliability standpoint. If you like the way the car drives, get it. If you don't like the way the car drives, look around for something you enjoy.
Speaking of something I enjoy, my beer glass is empty; must mean this post is done.
Finally settled on the Kenwood KDC-215S. It was at the low end pricewise but had good specs for sensitivity and power, plus nice features like intro-scan and random-with-delete play. It has only one pair of pre-amp outputs and no changer controls, but I wasn't interested in adding amplifiers or a changer. Its 22x4 watts RMS power is plenty.
The price was $169.95 plus $9.95 for 2nd-day shipping, less a $20 mail-in rebate from Kenwood (until 12/31/00). Apart from shipping this is the same price offered by many discount retailers like Good Guys and Circuit City. Ordered from the Crutchfield web site on a Monday and received the item on Wednesday. In addition to the receiver the package contained DIN tools to remove the old receiver, wiring harnesses to mate the receiver's wiring to the Cougar's wiring, an adapter to connect the Cougar antenna lead to the receiver (more on that later), faceplate adapter to fit the receiver into the Cougar dash, and great installation instructions. That's about $30 worth of extras.
Installation was as easy as advertised. Soldering 11 pairs of wires (3 for the power and 8 for the speakers) and wrapping the joins with electric tape is straightforward though a bit tedious. Some quick crimp connectors would have speeded up the process, but Crutchfield must have good reasons for recommending solder. The only hitch came when I saw the apparent mismatch between the antenna connectors. The adapter was in a tiny plastic envelope overlooked in the peanut packing. A call to the tech support 800 number went through instantly. My problem was one the tech rep must get many times a day, but he patiently suggested I turn everything in the box out on the floor. Voila!
Performance of the receiver meets all my expectations. The CD-Rs play nicely. I don't know if it will play CD-RWs, but then I can't think of any reason to use CD-RWs for music. At about $0.60 a pop just burn another CD-R.
If any of you are thinking of a new car receiver I strongly recommend going to Crutchfield. You can browse more models than you'd find in a dozen retail stores, and service and extras are great.
Good listening!
By the way, I'm one of the Senior Citizens of this group and while I occasionally shower down on her, I generally drive as if I am not racing the rice boy in the next lane.
I think lmigliore brought up a good point. Being a "support" group, this chat group is used extensively for discussing problems - major, but mostly minor. I know personly, while I have read every post ever made by the CSG, I havn't contributed a whole lot lately because everything is good with my car. My silver cat is approaching 2 years and 2 months old. While I have not owned a honda or a toyota, the Cougar has been more reliable than any of my previous cars. With the exception of replacing a bad oxygen sensor, which the dealer attributed to "bad gas", I attribute all of the trips I've made to the dealer to minor cosmetic glitches due primarily to the fact that I bought the new edge Cougar so early in its first production run (e.g., door latch recall, sqealing brakes due to silver aesthetic coating).
You may be reading more and more minor problems in this group, but that may be due to the fact that several members have Cougars that are even older than mine, with more mileage.
I think you would be happy with an '01 Cougar from a reliability standpoint. I still think it offers more bang for the buck than anything in its class. I sometimes feel that people who complain about the Cougar's mechanicals expect Porsche performance from a $20,000 car.
Bottom line is the Cougar looks great, is a hoot to drive, and (so far) is relatively reliable.
My 2 cents (1.3 cents US).
A.
The only real warranty work that I've had done was a lumbar support fix (seat), and several trials to get the hatch to pop on demand.
No brake squeals, leaks, radio problems, or anything else. (The CD's will rattle in the storage compartment, but that's not a problem for me)
Remember, the Cougar is based on the Contour/Mystique mechanicals which have a relatively good reliability and customer satisfaction reputation.
As has been said, Cougar customers may have a higher standard for satisfaction (some of our correspondents are really retentive), but if you look deeper they're actually happy with the car.
My major problem has been two tires and a wheel, but that's not the fault of the vehicle, spring steel on the road, and a deep pothole was. The nice thing about the blowouts was finding that the Cougar is very stable at high speed with a flat left front tire. Just let it coast down without heavy braking, and there's hardly a pull on the wheel. Some other vehicles would have thrown me all over the road, and probably on my head.
I believe that most of the little things that have gotten a lot of press here have been corrected and a 2K+1 should be very satisfactory.
Skip G
I want to apologize for my lame comment yesterday about Pearl Harbor. I didn't realize it was the anniversary of its bombing. I thought you were making one of your "I'm the old guy in the group" comments. I would never make light of such a serious event.
Gambit:
As a few members stated, this is a place to swap war stories. Some of them are victories, and others are defeats. The fact of the matter is that most of us are a bit fanatical about our cars. Take yesterday for example. I'm in the car with my girlfriend and we are driving down the road. In mid conversation my attention is distracted by the slightest rattle. I stopped in mid sentence and immediately began to try and locate the noise. It was actually just something I had in the back seat. After I determined that, I picked up the conversation where I left off. My girlfriend just looked at me and said "you need help". My reply was "Well I'm getting help from my support group, the CSG". I got the typical roll of the eyes. I would have to say that we are more in tune with our cars than the average person who only buys a car to get from point A to point B.
Yes I have experienced some problems with my Cat, one of them was a stalling problem, but I believe that problem was corrected (if you want to discuss this in detail, please send me an email). The ownership experience has not always been a bundle of joy, but a lot of the misery was due to incompetent service departments (KEN SMITH THIS MEANS YOU!!!). The Cougar is not for everyone, but it is for me. If FMC ever decides to release the long awaited Cougar-S, I will do my best to get my hands on one.
lmigliore:
"Now, Toyota seems to maintain a higher standard in this respect; the general feeling is that toyotas don't break. Maybe so, but then you're stuck with a Toyota; at least if it broke, it would have done something interesting"
LOL!!! How true!! Although I do find the Celica "interesting". I find it "interesting" that people actually like it.
We call it a SUPPORT group for a reason
Gambit, what do you think when you hear the words "support group?"
Imagine the following...
[Enter tired-looking man into circle of tired-looking people]
"My name's Bob, and I own a Ford Pinto."
[Everyone responds, in a tired chorus of voices]
"Hi, Bob."
[Bob joins group and begins discussing his woes]
The CSG has always befuddled me, because there are REAL enthusiasts in here. Folks who love their Cougars. Folks who would divorce, kill, maim, and/or bury alive loved ones for their Cougars (just kidding).
In a sense, they're super Cougar groupies. Nevertheless, as my girlfriend and another buddy from work like to joke, I regularly partake in a "support group." Most of the time I'm in here, I'm asking about problems with my Cougar. A lot of other people are too.
My car has been a pill since I bought it. Took 2 months for it to start falling apart. I've compiled a list of the problems below. You should note that many of these issues have cropped up with other owners and other model years of this new design:
- defective windshield
- gas filling problems
- broken shift boot
- poor-fitting windows
- leaky door seals
- dashboard rattles
- problematic CD player
- defective carbeurator
- grinding from accelerator
- problematic ext. thermometer
- coolant warning light errors
- poor rear hatch/decklid operation
Bottom line -- I can't recommend this car for its fit/finish problems AND the lackluster, hit-or-miss dealership support you'll receive from FMC. Knowing this information 2 years ago, I would have held out and purchased a VW or another Nissan. Maybe even a boring-[non-permissible content removed] Toyota.So what if it looks good and drives fast? These days, you need reliability and customer service. I'd recommend looking elsewhere, making sure to give current owners a "thumbs up" for having a slick-looking car.
Regardless of my opinion here, gambit, be sure to pick the car that makes you happiest. As you can see, despite the bugs and kinks in the new Cougar, folks rise above it all and enjoy their rides.
Thanks,
burnsmr
We bought a subaru impreza one month after the cougar and will conduct our own study on "American vs Japanese reliability" over the next 10 years. (They're running neck and neck so far.)
Hi, my name's Bob, and I own a '99 Mercury Cougar.
I too am really worried about dealership service. If/when I buy a Cougar, to be honest, I'd pretty much EXPECT to take it in at least several times the first few months. And if/when I buy a Cougar, I'd actually be willing to pay more for it from one dealer than another, IF I think that the service department there is better.
Going back to the stats again... (I always use Consumers Reports, but then again that's because they're one of the only ones to tackle these matters in a semi-scientific manner..) Consumer Reports results show Mercury dealership satisfaction is somewhat below average, far below all the luxury divisions, yet well above the Japanese company dealerships.
Like burnsmr4, it struck me as odd initially too that this "fan club" was called the "Cougar SUPPORT group," as if owning a Cougar was a bad, traumatic thing. Actually, if you go back to the CSG roots, you'll find that CSG was created to support those who were frustrated with WAITING for the backordered Cougars back when they were selling real hot.
How many of you are serious about getting a Cougar S? MSRP for a Cougar S is very close to an Integra GSR, VW GTI GLX, or Stratus RT loaded with similar options. All are in the 23ish range. (That's adding a few things to the base Cougar S, like side airbags etc...)
As for the Stratus....well, I'd wait until the Mercedes folks have had the reins over at chrysler for a few more years before I'd get one of their products. They look great, but I've been behind too many fairly new Chryslers that are belching smoke.
I hope you find a car that makes you happy....and if it's a Cougar, you know we'll cheer you on!
The Quality Assurance section where I work has two terms, one of which they use to describe each problem encountered: Operation Affecting, and Non-Operation Affecting. Having read through all of the posts what became obvious is that the vast majority of problems fell into the latter category.
In this day of high tech everything there are always more bells and whistles to fail. In theory it is easier to diagnose a problem because of the on board computer. This is true if, and only if, you take the car directly to the dealership the instant a problem occurs. However, if you wait, until the next scheduled maintenance for example, the computer has already overwritten the error code. This happens because of a pre-programmed time out in the computer. This is true of all late model cars regardless of the home of their manufacturer.
My analysis to date. I LOVE MY COUGAR. It is my alter ego. I am always viewed as very conservative, very business like, in essence, very beige. The Cougar appeals to my wild side and it hasn't disappointed.
Now to the reliability of Consumer Reports. Please compare CR ratings of the same winter tires in 1998 and 1999. I suspect you will see my point.
Final question. Have you driven a Cougar. If not do so before you make up your mind.
Of course, dough head that I am, I completely forgot about hub caps. So Krnch, if you see a tacky Cat with steel wheels and no hub caps, it's me. I will be getting the caps tomorrow. In the mean time Nimmue isn't speaking to me because she too busy blushing with embarrassment.
Now back to the Pirellis: I drove about 100 miles on these new tires yesterday and the many dash rattles and noises have subsided a bit. Also, the infamous steering wheel vibration is history. At all speeds, from 5mph all the way to 85mph, there was NO vibration. AWESOME!!!!
Man, that's good to hear. I had been looking at the Pirellis, and now I might just bite the money bullet and get them. You got them from Kauffman, right? Thanks again for the great information.
Responses for gambit
Thanks to everyone for not crucifying me for my comments on the Cougar. I just had to be honest with the guy. Badulah -- if I keep my Cougar, am I permanently banned from the CSG website? :-(
Seriously, I like my car -- it just came from a bad factory batch, I suppose. The car gets looks and comments all of the time. It handles well -- even better with new tires, I'd bet -- and moves fast when I need it to.
I would like to respond to some of the post-burnsmr-Cougar-bash comments:
- The braking is TERRIBLE if you don't get a Cougar with ABS. This is probably a moot point anyway, as you're talking about a $23,000 car, gambit. I had to stay in the bargain basement price (hence, safety features). Without ABS, some of the experiences I've heard from folks saving their lives with their Cougars would have left me dead because of brake lockup and fade. Get the ABS. Apparently it works :-)
- One fellow mentioned the difference between "operation affective" and "non-operation affective" problems. No offense to the poster, but there's a fine, subjective line between the two. If my shift boot breaks and comes off in my hand (from the center console), it might appear to one person a "non-operative affective problem." When it happens while driving, thus preventing me from downshifting before a stop...well...sounds like "operation affective" to me.
That's really the ultimate question here. How do you measure the value of your car? Speed? Looks? Handling? Safety? Fit and finish? To each his own, I suppose.Furthermore, when poor door fits and leaky windows open your car up to damaged carpet, burned out door speakers, and potential theft (now the coat hanger fits through the poor-fitting glass), the problems are no longer inconveniences. They are serious issues which affect the perceived value of the car.
I guess my Cougar love would be unconditional if someone at a dealership would do one simple thing...
JUST FIX IT -- AND DO IT RIGHT!
It's an issue of competence and willingness to relate/empathize with a customer's dissatisfaction with the operation of his or her vehicle. Even now, with a letter from a Ford factory manager in hand, my dealership is refusing to follow his EXPLICIT guidelines for fixing poor window fit and leaks. Why? I have no friggin' clue.
I must leave now. My girlfriend just asked if I "needed to go to my support group." How embarrassing {:-(
"Coming dear..."
Later,
burnsmr
I thought badulah's commentary on the "rattle incident" while driving down the road was very funny. It really hit close to home. I always turn down the radio in mid song to see if I can hear any new noises while driving down the road. If I detect any unfamiliar noise I immediately start to "investigate" where the noise is coming from. At this point my wife is looking at me like
I have antlers shooting from my temples. Then she just shakes her head in amazement and wonders why she married me ;-).
Re: Operation Affecting vs Non-Operation Affecting, I certainly did not mean to suggest that most of the problems that have afflicted your Kitty fall into the latter category. I was simply suggesting that if one looks at the experiences of all CSG members together via their posts, most fall into the non-operation affecting category.
Like many here, I too must immediately investigate every little rattle, jiggle, whistle you name it. But these are things I have noticed in every car I have owned at one time or another. I have often envied those people who can drive around for years in a car that sounds like it has 10,000 marbles spread throughout constantly colliding, without batting an eyelash.
I have been very fortunate in that since I bought my first Ford (this is the sixth) I have been well looked after by a very able and attentive service department at my local dealership. Had this not been the case I wouldn't have stuck with Ford products.
I haven't tried a panic stop on a disc/drum Cougar; this might be the terrible braking you're mentioning.
Ditto to Imigliore's comment. My cat does not have ABS. (I would have ordered them - but I bought a car I loved off the lot to avoid the frustration other CSGers had gone through). She did NOT lock up on a panic stop to avoid splatting a deer in my headlights at over 65 mph. It could have been a guardian angel - but I'm giving Mercury engineers credit on this one.
All I can say is that I'm wary of my disc-drum brake setup. It's been hit (literally) or miss in panic stops. That should clarify things.
On my Cougar it wasn'the cable that broke it was the actual throttle body. I know, I looked at it. They replaced the entire thing.
It is also so great to have that new reservoir in my car with nice healthy looking orange coolant in it. T
My car is also driving a lot better. The throttle body probably had been going out for a while because while I had noticed that my car didn't feel as responsive before the throttle broke, I thought it was just the gas pedal sticking.
The total out of the pocket cost at the dealer was 126.00 since the extended warranty had has a 100.00 deductible, and I had to pay a little extra to have the throttle body parts in by Friday.
Malibu:
I am from Los Angeles, and I do miss the fact that you could find almost anything you wanted in Southern California, usually within in 1 hour drive. I remember driving through infamous rush hour traffic just to go to West Hollywood to buy some NHT SuperZero speakers.
Morning!! I hope everyone had a GREAT weekend!! Yesterday I was watching an episode of "My Classic Car" and they had a segment about the original design of the Mustang. There were originally 7 different design teams working on the Stang. The interesting thing that caught my attention was that the design they chose to actually produce was called the "Cougar". It actually had a Cougar emblem on the front grill (different than the one our Cat sports).
gambit293:
Yes, the CSG was originally set up for people waiting to take order of their long awaited Cat. A few of us are original members of the first topic "'99 Cougar.... Any News?"
I'm seriously thinking about trading in my '99 Cat for a new 2001 "S". Since it is supposed to be coming out soon, dealerships should be taking orders for them by now. I'll have to give my local dealership a call sometime this week to see how long the list is.
Coolchick:
The new Stratus R/T is actually an Eclipse with a face lift. Same engine, trans, platform, ect.
fish8:
Glad you like your new tires!! I agree 100% with you. FMC is doing the Cougar a serious injustice by selling the car with Forestones. Although, i'm not sure if they still come with Firerocks. I think most of the newer ones come with BFGs. Anyone know anything further about this?
It's good to know i'm not the only one who gets weird looks and the rolling eyes from my significant other. She doesn't understand my obsession, but she does tolerate it. I guess I shouldn't expect anything more.
burnsmr4:
No your not banned from the web site, i'm just going to call your dealership and tell them to pour sugar in your gas tank. Just kidding 8-)
As you may remember, I had an incident take place with a local dealership about 15 months ago. They damaged the tint on my car and refused to fix it. They even refused to fix it after several phone calls from higher up FMC officials. It amazed me how they can be employed by a company and yet ignore their comments, orders, and suggestions. How can FMC possible expect to improve customer relations and satisfaction if they can not control their dealerships? While I was at CougarFest I spoke to a number of Auto Alliance employees. As you know they build the Cougar and the Mazda 626 at the plant. A number of employees told me they have no problems with the Mazda dealerships. If they call them with a problem, they are very helpful and willing to respond. But on the other hand, they have a hard time getting the FMC dealerships to cooperate with them. If they can't get the dealerships to work well with other FMC employees, how can anyone expect them to work well with their customers?
dgemini:
I have NEVER heard of a throttle body cracking. I doubt this will happen again. It sounds like a freak thing. I'm glad you have your Cat back in working order.
Jimbo_G
Hummmm, never thought of that.
MWS0520:
Is this possible? Or will we get laughed out of Mazda service departments?
No problem driving in to work this AM, even though the plows and saltshakers hadn't been doing much overnight. Kinda frustrating when they know it's coming, have a little time before the morning rush to get a head start, but don't do anything at all.
Then the officials say that they had to wait for all the traffic to clear so that they can plow.
Probably will be leaving work early as we're expecting a total of 12" by the time it's done.
No fun, but I don't expect any problems with the cat, just those other damn fools out there.
Skip G.
It's dumping 8" to 12" of snow in Lincoln but a lot of it also seems to be blowing in from Chicago with a minus 32 wind chill out there. When the snowflake turns blue in the cougar - it's time to stay home. (It's so cold there's an epidemic of people's mouths freezing to car doors when they try to warm the locks to get in.) And not a plow in sight. Malibu: send us warm thoughts!
This Thursday we are suppoed to get the storm you guys are having right now, but it will most likely turn to rain by then.
I too put my winter tires on last week. I actually had never driven the stock firestones on ice before last week. I was amazed with the difference the snow/ice tires made once I put them on. I think I can live with the extra vibration, etc. for the seriously enhanced grip. I remembered hubcaps for my Cougar but, admittedly, the ones I chose are pretty ugly.
A.
Since your from LA you are probably familiar with the central coast...I live in the Pismo Beach area. It's a little bit of a drive (3hrs as the cat flys) to LA, but the availability of stuff is worth the drive. The Borla shop in in Oxnard which is only 1 1/2 hours away.
Patte:
I'll send some of our 65 degree, sunshine your way...just close your eyes and picture blue skies, warm sunshine and a sparkling clean Cougar with the sunroof open and the stereo playing, your in your shorts and tank top with a goldent tan. Oh Please...it's cold and gonna rain here today! My Cougar is filthy and the heater under my desk is cranked on high as my skin glows white under these damn floresent lights! Winter Sucks! At least you guys have snow, I would love one christmas where everyone isn't in shorts!
I knew I should have removed a two bags of the following grocery product from my passenger side floorboard before going to work this morning...
A word to the wise -- if you break a gallon jar of dill pickles in your Cougar, and if you choose to use (1) carpet cleaner and (2) Fabreeze fabric deodorizer to clean up the mess, your car will smell like:
(a) pickle juice
(b) carpet cleaner
(c) Fabreeze fabric deodorizer
(d) all of the above
I think we can safely say that today is a Monday.
Pathetically,
burnsmr
P.S. -- Any suggestions, short of a full detail and shampoo of my Cougar's carpet? Thanks. Don't forget to stop laughing.
I use 3M spray foaming carpet and upholstery cleaner. I usually spray it on, scrub it in, let it sit, then wipe it off with a towel. I don't know if this product is reall good for this application.
Jimbo:
Since your our resident detail expert, can you recommend anything for burnsmr4?
My girlfriend, being the little Martha Stewart that she is sometimes, thought that "Sweet Christmas Pickles" would make nice gifts for friends this holiday season. God knows what our children will find in their stockings 10 years from now. That, however, is for a future post.
Anyway, she stocked up on pickle paraphernalia during a Saturday run to the grocery store. This morning, I found myself with rolling jars of pickles in my trunk, so I moved them to the front floorboard. Either way, I was screwed.
Mad as I was, I could only come up with one thing to say to the poor girl when I called to tell her about the accident...
"TWO WORDS -- CHRISTMAS BROWNIES!"
At least I could have enjoyed cleaning up THAT mess. Thanks to anyone who submits serious (or humorous, for that matter) cleanup solutions for this particular Cougar accident.
Later,
burnsmr
You might want to phone a local detailing shop. They might have a serious solution to the pickle your in.
8-)
PS - Please remove me from your Christmas list (not that I was on it to begin with).
Skip G.
Skip G. has the right idea in that the best deodouriser for carpets and upholstery is usually vinegar and water. However, given the garlic factor inherent with dills, you should add a bit of lemon juice to the water. Vinegar on its own is odourless once dry, and lemon juice is the most effective at neutralising garlic.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that one of our suggestions does the trick.
Krnch:
If/when you are ready to replace your snow tires I would highly recommend the Michelin's. No vibration, they corner beautifully, and very little road noise on dry pavement.
All:
We will be getting the same storm tonight that hit many of your earlier today. We are expecting 10" to 12" overnight and then high wind tomorrow. This will be the first real test for the tires so I will keep you posted.
P.S.
Now that I have the wheel covers on Nimue has deigned to speak to me again. Whew!
Jimbo_G
Here in our parking lot last evening, I had to fight slopes and drifts. Backing from where I was parked was easy (downhill), but getting enough momentum to get upslope and through 2' drifts took a little effort. Made it though, and once on snowpack or semi-pllowed streets, things were fine.
Just exercise reasonable caution, and you'll be OK.
Jimbo:
I thought about the baking soda while I was driving home last tight. Good idea, might help. Could even shake the stuff into the carpet, let it set, and then flush it out too.
Skip G.