Subaru Crew - Modifications

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does anyone know if the timing belt is a tolerant design, i.e. if it breaks could the valves get damaged?

    Shouldn't they just be changed at 60k, not just inspected?

    -juice
  • qsubaruqsubaru Member Posts: 37
    You have the 2.5 engine. Timing belt replacement is actually recommended at 105k.
    Most all of the 2.5's will bend or warp the valves if they break.
    I'd recommend checking it at 90k just to be safe.

    Darlene
  • potenzauspotenzaus Member Posts: 29
    I'm planning to modify the speakers on my '00 Legacy GT (I have an upgraded sound system). Does anybody know what are the specs of the four speakers (like watts/size)? If I change the two speakers, which ones are better to change , the front or rear? Thanks.
  • vintagejoevintagejoe Member Posts: 1
    Neighbor has above car for sale--it has variable height suspension--is this a generally good choice as a used car--has aprox 87K?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    potenzaus: if all the speakers were putting out equal sound, you would only hear the ones closest to you (because of the way the human ear perceives noise). Therefore, I would target the fronts for replacement first -- they will give the most noticeable effect to the driver and front seat passenger.

    The speakers are standard 6-1/2" round. Not sure about the depth, but www.crutchfield.com can provide a list of which speakers will fit. Most good speakers will have no problem handling the measly power of the factory radio (if that's what you have).

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    potenzaus: I'd change the front speakers first. I don't have specific info about them, but I've heard the magnets are puny.

    vintagajoe: if that's the same air suspension the XT has, they are prohibitively expensive to fix when they go. Does anyone know if that is the same suspension?

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Do tweeters and subwoofer(s). Get the tweeter kit from Subaru for a clean look; they mount just behind that little black triangle at the front edge of the door windows and point right at the front passengers' heads, a very nice location for tweeters. Subaru also sells a powered subwoofer that hides under the passenger seat, but if you're going aftermarket you might be able to find something that sounds better. I have both and I think the sound is great.

    As for door speakers - do the front doors first, that's where you will be! I've also heard that the factory speakers are nothing fancy, so any upgrade will sound better.

    Cheers,
    WDB
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine the purpose is to reduce noise.

    The fender well has air holes towards the bottom. It's just not that well sealed. That plus air gets in around the fog lights.

    I drilled holes at the very bottom plastic cover for good measure, though I doubt it was necessary.

    I'll be interested in seeing your before/after photos.

    So, the Phase II's aren't as noisy, eh?

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Frank,

    So you notice no difference in noise with and without the snorkus? How about at high rpms?

    I don't think you'll need to make any additional holes to allow your engine to breathe from the fender. Just don't forget to cover up the holes leading to the engine bay.

    Ken
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    vintagejoe, Re: <1255</A>> From what I've read, the variable height, or air suspension, will eventually fail on the first generation Legacy. Due to the high cost of replacement components (and eventual failure again), many replace the air suspension with traditional springs and struts. That being said, air suspension is currently available on the Subaru Lancaster (Outback) in the Japan Domestic Market, so FHI must think it's a viable design.

    Also, see the thread 1255converting air to strutsClubs on the Ultimate Subaru Message Board, New Generation forum. This board is very helpful for mechanical questions and has a search function. Good luck.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Wow Frank, that crazy thing is impressive. Can you take a picture of what remains?

    -Colin
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Can you imagine the poor devil who had to engineer and design that thing!? Good gracious. Even though it appears to consist of several separate pieces, that still is some pretty complicated molding.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey paisan - weren't you looking for that info a while back for your XT? Have you decided what to do yet?

    I imagine the snorkus is designed with computer modeling. They come up with the craziest design that keeps things quiet.

    -juice
  • dzartmandzartman Member Posts: 112
    That snorkus looks like the one in my 2000 OB. I'd remove it, but first, is the MAP sensor anywhere connected to the snorkus assembly?

    Dave
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I believe the MAP isn't located in the snorkus assembly for the 2000s. If it's the same as the Imprezas, it should be at the back of the 2nd plenum right before the throttle body.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Wondered why I didn't see anything like what Juice pulled out!
  • seamus3seamus3 Member Posts: 98
    i haven't gotten underneath yet, i'm doing it in the morning, could there be a problem with bushings somewhere? i didn't pay particular attention when i put the new springs in, to the details of what was on, around or near them. i will find out tomorrow morning.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Well everyone, I am liking these cams more and more. I will probably pull the valve covers in a few thousand miles and re-set the valve lash after the cams are well broken in, but other than a bit more valve noise at idle everything is wonderful.

    Those of you with an EJ25 SOHC should consider the Cobb Tuning street cams *if* you often drive spiritedly. Their effect isn't felt until ~3500 rpm but it makes things above that rpm range quite a bit more entertaining.

    The cams are $499 and expect to pay another $400-600 for installation unless you are a nut like me. ;)

    -Colin
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I'm really sorry we can't help you on your issues. I think it is very important that both sides (good and bad) are on these boards. With U. S. Customers, I encourage you to let us know if you have a problem so we can help. I know that Gregg in Canada wants to help, but there set-up is different than ours so I can't get involved. Keep posting here though. I'd miss your comments if you weren't around.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be clear, let's call mine the Snorkus v1.0 and the Phase II's the Snorkus v2.0.

    Now we have our Snorki straight.

    seamus: take photos if you can. It'd make it a lot easier to diagnose any potential problems.

    Colin: I'd call it $1000. No way even I'd try that alone. BugBomb's brother is a mechanic and has weekend access to his shop, and I'm STILL not sure I'd do it ourselves!

    How did that turbo group buy go? Were any delivered yet?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: lookin' good.

    My fender well acts as a "Bionic Charged Cold Air Compression & Turbulence Chamber". ;)

    What kind of ducting do you plan to use? I've seen some metal tubing that bends into shape. Plastic would be more insulated, though.

    Any plumbing experts out there?

    -juice
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Gentlemen! Don't you know you're not supposed to be flashing those things around in public?!?

    Besides, what is the goal of removing them? Is there a noticeable performance improvement? I cannot imagine that Subaru designed, molded, and installed a thingie like that unless it had a purpose. Simply making the car quieter could be accomplished with a straight tube, so there has to be more to it than that. Any airflow techies out there?

    Regards,
    WDB
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's a silencer, so the purpose was to quiet down the boxer growl, and suck the life out of the engine! ;)

    I notice better performance and more noise, but only when tapping into that performance - high rpm and WOT.

    In the Phase II's, it's hard to say. Frank didn't notice much difference in sound.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Well, I'm certainly no plumbing expert, though I have battled my share of leaky pipes and probably exposed my butt crack on occasion.

    If you can find it, there is a flexible accordian/bellows type of aluminum tubing that is used for a variety of venting, ducting, and HVAC applications. I've seen it in diameters ranging from about 2" to 6". I imagine you could find it in the local home center. It should be rigid enough for an engine intake, but double-check to make sure it doesn't collapse under the suction! Once you bend it to the right shape, the flex in the pipe should be enough to accomodate motion of the engine relative to the fenderwall (just be sure to build in enough slack). If you go with a rigid tube, make sure there is a flex joint somewhere.

    Craig

    PS: get as large a diameter duct as possible -- it will lower the air velocity and decrease losses.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Did someone say airflow techie? Now you're asking for trouble . . . .

    Designing chambers into a duct can be an effective way of killing noise, much more so than a straight duct which just propogates the noise (and can actually intensify it in many cases). Some of my colleagues work on duct acoustics, and they do this sort of thing to quiet down jet engine inlets, HVAC systems, etc.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Crack? We have an expert...

    Time for Frank to hit Home Depot.

    I have a question for your work friends - how else can you quiet that hum the Phase I's get when the silencer is removed.

    Could it be the same phenomenon that happens to some radio antennae (I forget what it's called)? Mine is wrapped with a twisting piece of fiber.

    Would something like that in the intake plumbing function to quiet the noise without restricting air flow?

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    WDB,

    I also have a 98 Forester (Phase I engine) with the Snorkus V1.0 removed and the engine feels more lively past 3500RPM.

    From idle to 3000RPM, there isn't much difference in intake noise or performance. At around 3000 -3500RPM, intake noise gets very noticeable with a low booming sound that makes the glove box vibrate a bit. After that, the booming noise goes away and it becomes a nice growl. From 3500RPM and up, it just feels like the engine "opens up" and it pulls hard to redline.

    ---

    juice,

    You might want to try buying a simple 3" diameter intake hose from a local auto shop and allowing that to connect your air box to the fender area. You may have to cut it a bit so that it doesn't dangle too far into the fender space. I did that on my Forester I don't hear any humming noise.


    Ken
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    That snorkus reminds me of a ligament from one of those aliens in the Alien series movies. Kill it! Kill it!
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Craig, juice, thanks for the reason why. Ken, thanks for the information on improved performance. I don't think it's the kind of thing I'll do, though; my days of taking the top off the air cleaner housing off and putting it back on upside down are pretty far behind me . If I were going to replace my "snorkus" with anything, it would have to be a turbocharger and heat exchanger!

    In my experience, air intake can affect outflow also. MGBs, back when they had 2 carburetors, had 2 separate, very large air cleaners inside metal housings, one bolted to each carb. Folks used to take them off and put cute little chrome things on there, and when they did their MGB lost a significant portion of one of its most charming features - its perfectly marvelous, deep, throaty exhaust note.

    Speaking of airflow going out, has anyone installed the Subaru-supplied "sport" muffler on a Legacy? I'm interested in "hearing" about one.

    Cheers,
    WDB
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The engine noise is now deeper and more throaty, actually. You can hear intake roar at WOT, but I like that! :)

    I've heard Stromungs and Borlas, and both are deep and burble nicely. They're louder pretty much all the time, even at idle.

    The one on BugBomb's RS did emit a "POP!" on occasion if you let off the gas, but overall it was cool.

    The catch is it's loud in normal use, so everyone will notice. I've taken a stealth approach so far. I may be able to get away with an Unorthodox Racing Pulley swap, but not much else.

    I suggest you attend any i Club event. Almost half have aftermarket exhausts.

    Any ideas what a rear disc brake retrofit would cost? And how much work it would be?

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    My Borla turbo muffler burbles a lot when you lift. I imagine ramon's does the same.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Ramon- Exactly! When I handle the snorkus, I feel like I should be wearing gloves and carrying it at arm's length.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they're possessed by the same demons in "The Exorcist".

    Not only that, but those stairs from the finale are right here in Georgetown.

    That means it's very likely those spirits literally traveled into my very own snorkus!

    OUT, I tell you!

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I think I may have originally talked about the antenna and rack noise, and probably called it periodic vortex shedding or something like that. I have a cool flow simulation picture (44KB) and movie (3.2MB Quicktime format) of it if you're curious (it shows the cross section of a circular cylinder, with flow from left to right). Very interesting phenomena, which results in singing wires, bridge collapses (Tacoma Narrows), erosion around piers, and many other things.

    I don't think the snorkus hum is due to the same thing, but it could certainly be a flow instability of some sort. Do you think it's a mechanical noise coming from the engine that was induced by removal of the snorkus, or is it noise from the intake flow itself?

    Specifically, I have two questions for you:

    1) Do you think the hum is always there, and removing the snorkus allows us to hear it (ie, the snorkus is there specifically to silence the hum)?

    or

    2) Does removing the snorkus actually cause the hum? (because of increased airflow, free breathing, etc)

    Maybe we can narrow down the thinking from there. If it is flow instability exciting a mechanical part, it's relatively easy to fix (assuming you have access to the part!). If it's flow noise, that's pretty easy to tackle too -- it may just take some experimentation with different baffles, suppressors, inlets, etc. Porous materials can reduce noise as well. I once silenced a noisy shop-vac with a plastic soda bottle!

    Craig
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    It is definitely a flow noise of some sort, resonance or turbulence most likely. It is not mechanical in nature. The snorkus is probably a number of things, especially that wild Snorkus Version 2.0 ¦¬Þ, but one purpose it serves is to silence intake noise.

    -Colin
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Next to my suspension setup, my catback Borla ehxaust is perhaps the best investment on my car. I love it. Tell me how many 2.2l 4-banger can scare a way a mustang GT?! hehhehe.... I was at a traffic light turning left when I in front of me was a black mustang GT with SVT Cobra trimmings on it. I guess when I let go of my gas my scooby burbled and pop like some pissed off pitbull. The stang guy look at teh mirror and saw me. He quickly made a left at teh lights. I rev matched and follow suit. I shouldn't have done that when I blipped the throttle to heel and toe, the exhausts growls even lowder! and next thing I know I was on his rear bumper cus in front of him was a slow neon driven by a lady. Stanguy was intimidated by my 4 banger and tried to overtake the neon. But it was a single lane and there were cars at the opposite side. I slowed to create some space. And once the opposite lane clears up, stanguy overtakes the neon..... =) Love it the Borla.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    The hum in my post snorkus v1.0 Phase I DOHC (phew)is constant, even ad idle, and fades shortly after I cut the ignition. It does not change with airflow, speed, or throttle. Kens is right, though- above 3500 rpm that WOT growl is nice, and the car responds a little bit better. Maybe .5-1.5 HP....?
  • dzartmandzartman Member Posts: 112
    Perhaps those who have removed the snorkus (god, i hate that word!) should invest in the bigger throttle body offered by Cobb Tuning?? Any opinions?

    www.cobbtuning.com

    dave
  • dzartmandzartman Member Posts: 112
    I see that they are offering Cobb-tuned Subarus at "select dealerships" soon. Interesting marketing ploy. Cool though. I suspect it will be Texas only.

    A new fuel riser from www.spomotorsports.com plus a throttle body and even those new heads and cams would make a wild Subie by any definition short of Prodrive. Colin, you're the man! Go out and get those heads and TB to go with your new cam!

    Dave
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dave,

    I think I read somewhere that getting a bigger throttle body won't help an N/A engine very much.

    Anyone else know?

    Ken
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I am going to the track tomorrow. I gotta get brake fluid, but Kirst has the Soob today and, therefore, the manual. Anyone know offhand what type fluid to get for a '99 OB?
  • dzartmandzartman Member Posts: 112
    On my 2000 OB I removed the first big snorkus. Five minute job. As you may know OB's have a "scoop" under the hood that channels air in. Nice because any time you are moving forward you're ramming cool outside air into the scoop and then into your engine.

    After removing the big fat snorkus, I noticed one small hole plus a larger tube attached to the air piping. Obviously if these were blocked more air would get to the engine...right? Or are those outlets needed for the fizziks of making air properly flow into the intake?

    BTW there is a hole in the fender too. I may experiment with some heat-resistant tubing from the air filter box straight to the fender, but the ram air scoop seems like it would feed more air to the engine. Of course any HP gains will be very small, but hell, why not. Thoughts?

    Dave
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dave,

    I'm not familiar with the 2000OB engine layout, but there's plenty of info on the i-club website with the Phase II engines.

    As for the hood scoop, I've seen people try and position their intakes directly below it, but rainwater seems to be an issue. Unfortunately, our NA engines don't seem to get much power from ram air effects.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Dave, Ken:

    I'm waiting on dyno results for the throttle body. The heads are way out of my comfort zone. I did a little head work of my own while installing the cams, and no matter how good they are I'm not forking over more than $2K for ported stock heads. I would much rather spend that kind of money on suspension or a programmable ECU.

    Loosh, on a budget I highly recommend Valvoline Synpower brake fluid. Great performance, very cheap, available at most autoparts stores and even Wal-Mart. Probably too late to help you this time though.

    -Colin
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    OK I've enrolled myself into this Rally course that the TO Subaru club is organizing. It's gonna be held at Mosport Race track and it'sa a full day affair. Tom McGeer and a few rally masters from the Canadiand Rally championship will be on hand to teach us. It's limited to 25 participants. It's gonna cost about 100-130bux CDN. Think it's good price? There will be a classroom time and then some outdoor stuff. I pray to God that I will not cap my OBS to some snow banks. =( It's gonna be hled on the 23rd of December. Will take some pix too. Whoohoo! Richard Burns when I am done with my rally course, I am gunning for you! bwahahhahah..... ;-D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think I'll just deal with the noise and label my intake the "periodic vortex shedding v2.0".

    It's all the time, and my guess it's the rush of air resonating. Sounds like a tuning fork. Lucien nailed one point - it does take about a second after you cut the engine to fade off.

    Soda bottles?

    What about lining the inside of the tubing leading to the fender well with some texture, like that stuff they use for undercoating?

    Dave: just be careful about water. Those holes are probably water drains.

    Colin: You can't mix brake fluids, though, right? If he goes with synthetic, doesn't he have to drain the entire system first, then refill and bleed properly?

    You thinking about the SAFC? Those are cool looking, I saw Justin's a while back. His was running 2% leaner and making 40 lb-ft more than stock (he had dyno charts), but he did have other mods.

    ramon: have fun and yes that is CHEAP! FATT was $150 for a day. US dollars, too.

    -juice
  • crashton6crashton6 Member Posts: 245
    I believe synpower brake fluid is just synthetic in name only. It's just regular DOT4. I think what you are referring to is silicone brake fluid. It is best used in cars that sit idle for a long time. (antique autos) You do have to drain & flush your brake system to use it. I've done this on my MG & had good results. Some people say you have to disassemble the entire brake system clean reassemble & the put silicone in. Some brake seals will leak with it. It doesn't absorb moisture. It doesn't hurt paint. Now the bad part. It has a very low boiling point. If you boil brake fluid you have no brakes. One of the reasons to change brake fluid is as it gets old it picks up moisture & this lowers the boiling point. You aint lived till you've gone into turn seven at Mid-Ohio & had your brakes turn to mush. Changing brake fluid is a good thing. BTW I use Castrol LMA.
    Chuck
  • crashton6crashton6 Member Posts: 245
    I was at Pep Boys this morning & found synpower brake fluid. I took a minute & read the back of the bottle. I was incorrect in my earlier post it is synthetic silicone not regular brake fluid. The cautions in my earlier post apply to this fluid.
    Chuck
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yes, there's a good possibility that the intake plumbing is humming because of the airflow, like a kazoo. If that's the case, you just need to tweak the plumbing so that its resonant frequency changes. You could damp the tube somehow, maybe put some foam in a strategic place, or put a few holes in the tube if it won't sap performance. Instead of tweaking the tubing, you can instead tweak the flow -- try putting in a screen or some surface roughness to promote turbulence (smooth flow makes very specific tones, while turbulent flow is more broadband, like static).

    The first thing I would do, if it's easy enough, is to remove your intake plumbing -- just leave the air filter box. If the hum is still there, then tweaking the plumbing/airflow won't do much. If not, you can add back parts one at a time, until the hum returns. This will allow you to pinpoint which part is causing the hum. Who knows, maybe the fender cavity is causing the noise!

    Craig
  • doctorzoomdoctorzoom Member Posts: 2
    Just bought '01 Forester S Prem. Couple of thoughts. How do I correct the whistling noise from the driver side outside mirror (its pretty annoying and loud). Any advice for a wind deflector for the moon roof? Can i install that or should let dealer do it? I drive on the highway alot, i'm thinking of a front bra. Which one is better, the full one or the smaller version? Do i buy the bra from the dealer or go somewhere else (and where)? Appreciate any help. Thanks!
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