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Comments
Lucien - My mother told me not to play with my snorkus or I would go blind. Maybe she meant to say that my car wouldn't run. Glad you're back on the road. Pretty cool .. all the help you got !
-hutch
I do have a web site with pics of the Stromung, but no sound files yet. I've been meaning to record it since I put up the page, but haven't yet. Maybe this will ge me motivated. BTW, Scott, the owner of Stromung, installed the pipe at their shop, and used my intermediate pipe as the blueprint for a new, bigger Legacy midpipe. I'm waiting on weight and performance data before buying, but I do like my Stromung. Details and pics are here:
http://www.wave.net/diveguy/Dave
Dave
Did you use anything to connect your airbox to the inner fender? I think juice experienced the hum when he didn't have anything there. As for myself, I just went to the local car shop and bought some flexible intake hose (3" diameter, I think) cut about a 10" piece of it and connected the airbox to the fender. I also covered up the hole left from the snorkus with some cardboard and tape. The result -- no hum from the get-go and a deep growl at WOT.
Ken
In #987 I listed some typical prices that I've seen MY00 wheels go for. (01 is identical.)
-Colin
Check it out at:
http://members.home.net/gopspin/mods/stromung.htm
Ed
That covers the "yes!" part. Now the disappointment...
(47kb)
One of the bearing journals is nicked pretty bad. That type of damage is unacceptable for any reciprocating component in the engine as it will wear out the bearing and seize.
I'm very confident Trey Cobb will take care of me, but he's at Indy for the USGP. His brother was watching the phones for him and indicated he'd get with me asap upon returning. Bummer.
Oh, and who ground this thing anyway? (IMO the damage likely occurred at the grinder.)
WebCam. Never bought from them but heard decent things from various racers in discussion forums. Hmmph.
-Colin
..Mike
..Mike
Dave
bogusbob (Ken)
My stock offset was 55mm, and the new ones are 40mm. That extra 6/10ths of an inch allows for inch wider rims and inch wider tread, even with taller sidewalls than stock. The result is close, very close, but I've had absolutely no rubbing. The fronts are the closest - right at the mud guards.
Bambi's dead - LOL!
The humming from the intake faded slightly when I cut off part of the snorkus to make sure the air comes from the fender. Not totally, but it's quieter. Sounds like Ken got even better results.
Colin: maybe that cam is made from the same material as our windshields - soft glass!
-juice
First thing I noticed is that is revs much easier. Just add 300lbs of "lightness". Also, my tires mean I have a 7% disadvantage in gearing, plus he has the torquier phase II engine.
The result is a much quicker car, with stiff handling that suits it well. I could barely even reach its limits on public roads. At that limit, it understeers slightly more than mine, even with a 24mm rear bar. Go figure. Maybe its the rear LSD getting too much traction?
Other comments? Ride is nowhere close to as smooth as mine, but that's a fair trade-off. The steering wheel is thin compared to mine, which has a thick aftermarket leather cover and feels much meatier.
Love the Kartboy. Zero play, Miata-quick shifts. He also had the urethane bushings. Shifts are both shorter and easier, since there's no play whatsoever.
Seats feel much lower, like you're in a bath tub, at least compared to my Forester. Much of it feels familiar, except the limits are much higher. Visibility also not as good, with the huge hood scoop blocking part of the view, but not bad overall. Head room would be tight with a helmet for me.
We played cat and mouse and chased each other around some twisty roads, but only a few miles' worth. He kept up with me in my Forester easily, though when we swapped cars he was able to stay with me most of the time since I wasn't pushing the RS 100% (lack of familiarity, I'm used to lower limits).
The Stromung sounds sweet! Nice and deep, only slightly louder unless you want it to run. It burbles on occasion, and we got a couple of kick-backs, no biggie. I'd get one if the Forester weren't the family car.
I can't say how much hp he gained because I haven't driven a stock Impreza, but it's mighty quick, handles like it's on rails, and even at 8/10ths it feels very comfortable with a wide margin of error. It's nearly impossible to break traction, unless you want it to.
Nice car, guys.
-juice
Maybe a smaller diameter tire would give you more gear, and you'd be better off while in 2nd.
-juice
It was a blast. The rain was very light, but the
ground was damp. I was surprised how much grip I
had... my best time was 393.369 seconds,
unfortunately 1.1s out of first in STS. Yep, the beauty of all wheel drive was bested, again, by a Saturn SC2. A fellow competitor in a '98 2.5RS took third in the class, about .5s behind me. I think if it were raining harder the AWD cars would have walked away from the field, but as it was the Saturn driver just outdrove me. I'm getting better though and did manage to run the 7th fastest overall time of the day (out of 28 cars).
My legs hurt a bit from bracing them on the door and center console. Would be really nice to have a deep bucket and a harness!
-Colin
Nice mini-review on the RS. What I'd like to hear is the RS owner's review of the Forester.
Are you getting that sway bar yet?
Ken
What the deal with an '84 Civic taking 2nd?
Ken: BugBomb's on i Club, so ask him! The thing that stood out that he kept mentioning was how smooth the ride was. Part of that is the touring tires, plus the long travel suspension.
He also noticed my fat steering rim, and that the SPT shift lever had an even shorter throw than his Kartboy (I felt they were equal). His still had a firmer feel, though, probably because of the urethane bushings (mine are stock).
He also said it seemed a lot roomier. Note that he was comfortable driving the Forester to the limit, while I was more conservative with his RS.
Anyhow, here are some photos of the shift lever swap, and his RS mods. I threw in a review of an XC I test drove this weekend (in order to get a $100 gift to Orvis.com).
-juice
-Colin
Since the whole kit doesn't seem to fit, I'd get just the shift lever if you can, at least for the Forester. Then consider a $25 urethane bushing from kartboy.com. I would recommend the SPT kit for Impreza owners, though (and order the bushing separately).
-juice
Nice updates to the webpage. Glad to know another advance has been made in Project Forester 2.5RS.
As for the sway bar, no -- the endlinks don't come with it. That's a separate piece. The swaybar upgrade alone makes a difference so I would imagine doing the entire thing would make for a bigger change.
Ken
-Colin
Mike didn't think they were any firmer than stock - so why crawl underneath and do all that work?
It's kind of odd, but shifting does not require more force. I think since there is less play, it guides you into each gate more precisely, and snicks right into gear. In theory, the shorter throw means less leverage, but in practice it's easier to shift.
Anyone care to explain this better than I did?
When are you going to take a business trip over here anyway? You gotta feel some stuff in person.
I'll probably wait to hear what Colin has to say about the end links, then add both at the same time.
I gotta tell you, it was great that BugBomb offered to help me out, for free, no strings. He even brought his brother, who is a Chrysler mechanic (i.e. lots of experience with trannies!) with him. I just took photos and notes!
-juice
I might look into the possibility of first getting just the Kartboy shifter and then maybe the Cusco bushings. I wonder if either one will fit the Forester. Anyone know?
Hey, as soon as I can find a reason to be in the DC area, I'm there! When are you vacationing out here?
Ken
Ken
First, the underside of the Forester differs. The exhaust is routed differently, and there are heat shields that the Impreza doesn't have below the tranny. Be ready to do a bit more work, because only the shift lever pops in from above - everything else is bolted on from underneath, with the bushings.
The other thing is that the kit looked like it would not fit. It has a rubber boot gasket to keep all the road grime out of the gearbox, and it looked different (not 100% sure though).
Finally, each of the kits comes with rubber bushings; urethane is sold seperately. So unless you get the bushings, I don't see the point of installing the entire kit.
Shop around for shift levers only. SCC ought to have some ads for those. I imagine for $40 you could find one. If you want to go the extra mile, bushings would be another $25, or only $65 total, but they're a lot more work.
Remember - Mike felt my shifts were actually closer than his Kartboy's. Also, the SPT shifter removes the rubber insulator in the lever, which by itself reduces the play somewhat, though the bushings would go even further.
Have any of the JDM Foresters been modified with shifters? That may give us more info. Maybe it would fit with the stock rubber boot and the rest of the SPT kit, who knows.
A few posters on i Club kind of laughed when I mentioned mine would be the first short-shifting Forester, but noone had heard of another.
I'd love to hit SF again. Thing is, we're going to Brazil for a coupe of weeks at the end of the year, then possibly Lafayette in the spring for a plant tour (see Events), and then a wedding next summer in the Dominican Republic, with a paid visit to our buddy centavo. In a rental Forester Turbo, of course!
I'm hoping the wife will have a business trip out there - she used to go a lot. I'll hop on the bandwagon in a second. The whole bay area is incredibly interesting.
-juice
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll first get a short throw shifter until I can figure out how to go about changing the bushings. I'll try looking at some JDM stuff to see if anyone's done it already.
Ken
The hard part is access to the shifter in the first place. You'll have a heat shield to remove, then the issue of whether the kit will fit. The whole time you'll be working around the exhaust, too.
It's tough the be the first! That's the catch. A JDM experience would be great.
-juice
The interesting thing is that subaru doesn't use left and right side cylinder heads. The cams are left-right specific, but the heads aren't. Smart, cost saving.
-Colin
At least you can combine it with an air filter swap.
-juice
My cargo net was aftermarket, so I can't help you there. But I'm sure you've seen my instructions for the skid plate and the air filtration.
Hint: make sure the engine is cold. You're working around the exhaust so don't burn yourself. Also, wet the hooks that hold up the exhaust if they're hard to remove.
Should take about a half day to do it all. Good luck.
-juice
Any thoughts? I am not sure what the gains like for our 2.5 or 2.2l cars as the dyno is on a '93 1.8l. Will it be comparable to Minnam's Stage I which pulled in 40-50hp?
Shifters- Andy at Rallispec will custom machine a short shifter for any Soob, to the customer's specs. $130.
ramon: remember, that is just for the turbo kit. Not the upgraded fuel pump, oil pump, and various electronic goodies you'll need to do it right.
And so we come to: MY DAY AT RALLISPEC!
Rained like crazy all the way from Baltimore to NJ. got there and, after hunting around for it, finally found this LITTLE garage, set off the street, that is ralispec. no one home. DOH! I thought I had gotten blown off! I hung around for 30 minutes, then decided to leave. I was about to start the car when I saw him coming. Actually, I heard him coming first. In aMitsubishi Galant VR4, totally race prepped. You don't know from exhaust sounds, especially when the driver heel-toes a down shift into the parking lot! Greetings, apologies, off to the shop.
Ah, the shop. tiny, with no room for a lift. Lots of jacks. And a Rally car sitting in the middle of it. Dave and Andy's (currently blown up) Celica GT All-trac. SWEET. Too bad it has no engine. Also a car Andy called the "little mutant," which was a late 80's Colt that they were dropping some monster engine into- some sort of turbo 1.6 liter that makes 220 hp in a car that weighs nothing. It was hard to get around, because of all the exhaust pipng that was on the floor- he was building several for various folks. the rest of the floor was taken up by an ENTIRE STi ver. V engine and driveline, plus the electronics. It is going into an OBS later.
After we got the little mutant pushed out into the rain and got my car in, Andy popped the Whiteline adjustable 18-22 bar on my car. Maybe, in retrospect, I should have gone for the 20-24 bar, but I figured 24 might make an otherwise stock OB too tail happy. Oh well. Whats done is done. We talked a lot of shop, and Andy showed me his short shift. Purty kewl. I may have to go up there again soon!
Right away, the car is tighter. Less understeer for sure, and quicker in the transitions. On wet on-ramps, the tail gently whispered that it was awake now, the first time I have ever felt it since I have owned the car. I suspect as I get better I will move to the 22mm setting. I hope I don't start wishing for the 24mm bar.
Juice-
As I pulled in, Andy exclaimed. "Ah the sound of a double overhead cam 2.5 without the snorkus. MMMMMMMMMM!" He didn't know about my mod, but sure as hell recognized the noise. Apparently, we aren't going to get rid of our hums.
Would have been nice to have been informed... not hard or expensive to email. Oh well, I was in no hurry.
Glad to hear they were able to help you out!
-Colin
The modifications section of the iclub describes exactly what I did. I did remove the fans and coolant overflow tank, took no time at all.
The only hard part is getting the 22mm nut broken free on the pulley... It was difficult to turn even with a 2' pipe (cheater bar) on the end of my 1/2" socket wrench -- which is about 15" long itself. Yep, even with a lever arm over 3' long it was tough.
The belts Trey sent with the pulley are what Unorthodox Racing recommends. Unfortunately these belts are too long-- they work, but one of the tensioners is maxed out (the alternator one) and the other is very near that. There was a discussion on the iclub about the right belts... I suppose I could find that or just measure myself and get some shorter ones.
The performance change is subtle but perceivable. I think it will complement the cams nicely... I noted no problems with lights dimming, and I ran my AC at idle with my headlights and fogs on. (Not for long though, it was ~50F last night.)
Oh, and speaking of colder weather, I've noticed that my cold air intake is really starting to make a difference. I love my car!
-Colin
How would a stock setup with just the turbo run?
$130 still seems like a lot for just a lever. It doesn't look like more than $40. JCSports charges $150 just for the lever.
Quick! Ramon! Buy that STi engine!
Loosh: I think the 18-22mm is plenty. No end links? That'll take it even further. How much for the whole job, with installation?
I can deal with the hum. Heck, I LIKE the hum now that I know a specialist can recognize it just from the sound! 4 cams singing, AAAH. All that and the wife doesn't even know...
-juice
Fans and coolant tank? Easy enough. I wonder if my torque wrench would give me enough leverage! Did you have to have it in gear?
How much? I've heard $180 for the URP and $20 for belts, is that right? Where'd you get them?
I'll be very interested to see your AutoX times. You don't return to the same track, though, do you?
-juice
Great story. I liked the part about how Andy picked out the snorkus removal.
Have fun with that new sway bar!
Ken
I paid $189.95 for the pulley and belts-- Cobb Tuning. I figured I'd just toss those savings on the cam deal out the window.
If you want to see the autocross results, go to my region's website here and select Solo Results from the second drop-down at the top.
I'm in STS, which is near the end of the listings by class.
-Colin
Juice : the STi came off from my engine as I decided to hybrid up my OBS with an 3G RX-7 rotary twin turbo.
Ok is it me or what that I can't detect any sound or whatever changes after removing my snorkus a while back? I think my Borla's too loud!
the pulley's a PITA to install. I know. But I got help. So did you notice any harmonic dampeners on your stock pulley colin?
-Colin