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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • ace1000ace1000 Member Posts: 151
    Since several people mentioned the Scion xB, I test drove one many months ago. It felt like a cheap econobox, which is not surprising since it is a Toyota Echo with a different body. The stick shift was the sloppiest shifter I can remember using. It did not strike me as being much of a threat to Subaru or other makes that offer much more for the same price or not that much more money.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm game with that pricing too.

    Does anyone recall what happened when Subaru last updated the Legacy in MY2000? Did prices jump significantly? I can't remember.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think that's where pricing should be. The 2.5GT already shot up in price when it got leather and all that stuff, and it's not selling well. They can't have another price leap and expect sales to be strong.

    Scion xB starts at $14k, and that includes stability control. It's well equipped at half the price of the average car.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Yeah and here in Canada, they dropped the standard Gt wagon with cloth like mine, all you get now in a GT wagon is the so called Premium package, thats a $4,000 jump in price not chicken feed.

    Iterestingly you can still get the standard GT sedan go figure.

      Cheers Pat.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    that '04 Impreza doesn't have an A-pillar antenna. So I went and checked- they get an in-glass one now, at least on the rex. Rex also got brake force distribution too. Does the '04 GT have that? I assume the Outback does, at least in VDC trim.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WTLW. :-)

    We noticed that at a car show, I think way back in April at New York.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In fact I think it was the one in Baltimore, did you come when we first saw the STi? Sat in it and all.

    I think you missed that show for some reason. Bob went, Dave and paisan, too.

    Bob - I ran across some interest sales numbers, and while they're old they do support my position about hatchbacks. In 2001, Golf sales totaled 31,271, while the Jetta chalked up 145,221 buyers. Roughly 5 to 1 and the sedan costs more!

    Even I didn't realize how big that discrepancy was. In Brazil, the Golf is easily the bigger seller, VW hardly sells any Boras (the name for the Jetta there).

    -juice

    PS I'd been waiting to use that phrase for, oh, about a year now, LOL
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I was there all right. I remember seeing all of you...there was some argument about whether the Titan was cool ornot I think. I also remember being stopped in my tracks by that Silver WRX wagon with the OZDM B4 17" takeoffs. I guess I never noticed the missing antenna. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Distracted by the rims. ;-)

    Titan's looks have grown on me, kinda looks butch enough to be cool. The chrome is still a bit much.

    But the Armada did not impress me with family-friendliness, and face-it, those are the customers for the SUV.

    The pickup is a different story, it might actually be better suited to its mission.

    -juice
  • sube555lgtsube555lgt Member Posts: 78
    I really have to move east to catch all the action...but I so want to move west and live in the rockies!!! I envy all the car action so close and so many of the Subaru folk being on the east coast.

    Lucien, I am trying to get Patti to make some moves for those 17x7" UK OEM (what many call them) wheels. Would be a great wheel upgrade. I've only ever seen one set up close and in person and they looked great. If somehow I were to flip for that WRX Wagon over a Leg GT, it would have those (or P1's), an SPT suspension, exhaust, and a few other gadgets. Decisions, decisions.

    But the good word on the street from the techs who did training just a few months ago is that the Legacy GT turbo *IS* coming this coming spring. The ones I talked to were adament about it too. So that's a good thing. Now the only deal is pricing and I hope they fall into the desired price range.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Make 'em optional, but a factory option. Potholes around me mandate 16", tops.

    -juice
  • sube555lgtsube555lgt Member Posts: 78
    I'm not recommending them for standard, just to make them another option since many people really like them but can't even get ahold of them other than importing them. Option and at uptrade price, not full price as some would rather have one set of wheels than two.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.carkeys.co.uk/roadtest/RT000336.htm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Solid review, but this is what stood out to me:

    Economy: 38.7mpg extra urban, 29.4mpg combined

    WOW! :-)

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Now that's a nice review for what sounds like a very easy car to live with, in that specific level of trim. Convert the pound sign to a dollar sign and you're talking a serious contender in its segment.

    Ed
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    We're not comparing apples-to-apples here.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How would it translate to US gallons? The number still seem impressive. They mentioned +7 mpg in another article, so I expect we'll see at least a few MPG higher on the EPA cycles.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    US Gallon= 3.78l
    Imperial Gallon= 4.54l, or 1.2 US
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    32.25 and 24.5, still solid numbers.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    on that
    UK report on Legacy H-6
    0-60mph: 7.9 seconds
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.jcoty.org/
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    H-6 diesel! It's in a article about the older Subie concept, towards the end of this PDF. The big chesse at Subie-Oz is quoted.

    http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/D55CE1C27FAA2EC7CA- 256DDB002FB008/$file/GoAuto_enews213.pdf

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool, JCOTY, wow!

    H6 means it's not an Isuzu design. I wonder if Isuzu collaborated on it.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    But the big cheese isn't quoted on the part that says H6 diesel:
    "...“We will look at the six-cylinder Liberty further down the track, for people who specifically want a six,” Mr Senior said.

    Subaru is also developing a flat-six turbodiesel
    engine primarily for Europe that should be
    on sale in about three years..."
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    ...Subaru is also claiming bragging rights in the turbo market, saying it believes it sells more turbocharged petrol-engined vehicles in Australia than anyone else, largely thanks to its ever-popular Impreza WRX, which accounts for about 3500 sales a year

    "We will look at the six-cylinder Liberty further down the track, for people who specifically want a six," Mr Senior said.

    Subaru is also developing a flat-six turbo-diesel engine primarily for Europe that should be on sale in about three years.

    Subaru Australia would like the oil-burner for Outback as it would suit the needs of rural buyers.

    A four-cylinder turbo-diesel version in Forester would also be welcomed...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the vote count

    1 Subaru Legacy 368
    2 Toyota Prius 322
    3 Mazda RX-8 238
    4 Honda Odyssey 116
    5 Jaguar XJ 60
    6 Audi A3 55
    7 BMW 5 series 22
    8 Nissan Maxima 7
    8 VW Touareg 7
    10 Volvo XC90 5
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet. Beating the Prius is no small feat, given the amount of new technology in that car.

    Bodes quite well for the new Leg.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Yep, saw that over at the other forum. I tried to get into some of the articles, but I didn't want to go through the trouble of setting up a user account.

    The Legacy is a very popular vehicle in Japan.

    Ken
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20031115/200311150local_business10- 68873041.shtml
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's a rumor over at Nabisco that the '05 STi will make 330HP, via the addition of of AVCS to the exhaust valves. I wasn't aware that AVCS was only on the intake valves.

    Supposedly over in Japan Subaru is using AVCS on both intake and exhaust on some models, and they're called dual AVCS engines.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    DAVCS? 2AVCS?

    Cool, though. As if it needs more power!

    I wonder if the Forester XT will get the technology, or maybe single AVCS makes it down to the rest of the model line? And they had to give the STi more to keep it distinguished?

    I love a good conspiracy theory...

    -juice
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    coming in at 270 hp, which has been my favorite # for a while now, more doable from a marketing/"separation of models" perspective. I'll take it!

    Jim
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    STi is getting wupped in the press' endless EVO vs. STi comparos, so it needs help. Then again, most of the criticism falls on the slow steering more than the engine, and the sometimes violent front LSD.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm thinking the same thing. Maybe employ a quicker steering ratio. I think it's the same as on the Forester!

    Hadn't heard that about the front diffy. Is it binding?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I heard that the EVOs that the press got were "special" not sure if it's out in the press yet, but apparently they had tweaked suspension and engines... Shame on Mitsu.

    -mike
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Anything more specific on pricing?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    it is often the FQ300 that gets tested. Then again, it is pitted against the STi Prodrive UK, so.......maybe Mitsu is passing of debadged FQs to the press as USDM EVOs?
  • sube555lgtsube555lgt Member Posts: 78
    I wouldn't doubt some tweaks. From what I've been seeing in AutoX, the STi drivers have been doing better in my region. Maybe just because they really had their hearts set on the STi and they knew what they were getting. They also really know how to drive as well. Not saying anything for the EVO drivers, but the STi's appeared to be able to be pushed just as hard and really produce results, generally in the range of 1-2sec better on 40-60sec courses.
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Sat in one back in September. The seat adjuster knobs are impossible to reach. There is no cruise. That is crazy on a $30k car. I don't care if it is the hottest thing going. I still need my primary car to be useable on the road. Local Mitsu dealer has sold 5 so far but it takes a while to move them (the silver one on the showroom floor I sat in is still there). They are not charging any extra over list price. I have only seen one STi locally and it was not bought here (because dealer locally wanted $2000 over list to order). There have been a fair number of WRX's sold here. Here is the wierd factor: the Outback sells poorly here but the car that moves off their lot fast is the Baja. See them all the time around Evansville!

    TWRX
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same here Bruce. I could not adjust my own seat unless I leaned way forward awkwardly. My hand kept getting pinched as I turned it. And of course it's trial and error because your back is not against the seat.

    Don't be surprised if owners never let anybody drive it, if only to keep the seat in the right position!

    Rockville Mitsu had a $3 grand mark up.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The new Legacy and Outbacks are arguably the most important product launches in Subaru's history; not SOA's history, but FHI's history. North America is Subaru's biggest and most important market, so you can bet that they will pull out all the stops to make sure these cars are "right" from the git-go.

    I've said this before, but it probably is worth repeating: I'm betting we see some surprises with the North American Legacys and Outbacks. I see these as v.1.1 models, not v.1.0 models. V1.0 is what the rest of the world has, and I bet we get a few perks that have yet to be seen.

    Also, SOA's recent history has shown that they like to pull surprises. How many expected a 2.5 STi or a 2.5 Foresters XT? (Of course there was also the Baja, but I'll only whisper that one...) ;)

    So what do you guys think?

    * 6-speed manual?

    * A larger H-6? There have been persistent rumors of a 3.6 H-6 for the yet-to-be-shown crossover. Could that engine also show up in a North American Subie?

    * More than expected HP from all engines?

    * Turbo Outback GT? Remember, there was one shown to some guy from nabisco who recently went to a Subie focus group (same with the 6-speed).

    * 5EAT/SportShifts for all automatics? In other markets, the base H-4 still gets the 4EAT.

    * Something else?

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    6mt/5Eat would be great; keeps them slightly ahead of the market, though I suspect not by much.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I really hope they use the 5EAT/SportShift in all A/T equipped trim lines.

    DaveM
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    I think the power will be higher across the board. Higher even than we have been guessing. I'll bet the rumor about the STi getting more power is right. Let's see, my Christmas list would be... 2.5na = 180 hp, 2.0t WRX = 230 hp, 3.0na = 250 hp, 2.5t = 280 hp, 3.6na = 300 hp, 2.5wrxsti-t = 330 hp, 3.6legacysti-tt and B11S = 400 hp. Unfortunately, I am basically resigning myself to the fact that prices are also going to be too high, and I really must again caution Subaru to not test that marketing theory. I trust that our worthy representatives will stress this concern during the Detroit festivities, if they can lift their chins off of the floor and gather their thoughts... :)

    Jim
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    yeah the 4-EAT needs to go. I know it's been refined, but it still needs to go. It's a losing battle--Mercedes is building 7-speed automatics now. 5-speed autos will soon be the bare minimum.

    Eric
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    lottery for "closest guess" for the Legacy GT-t's official horsepower #?

    If so, I'll start at 275.

    Jim
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    V1.1:more cupholders than any other Subie in the world! :-P

    I'm really hoping for the 5EAT and 6MT.

    How about VTD standard on both AT and MT vehicles?

    Ken
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