The Outback that is launched in Chicago in February will have the XT name on the turbo version. Like the Forester the X stands for Crossover. Legacy will have 2.5 GT on Turbo, 2.5i base model NA, and 2.5i limited NA.
I believe that you will find that the "X" may not stand for crossover (as in crossover vehicle). The Forester XT was never considered a "crossover", just a variant on the Forester that was designed before the "crossover" term was starting to be used by Detroit. They did this to avoid their perception of a stigma in the use of the terms station wagon, wagon, minivan, soccer-mom, etc.
The "X" is a symbol for 4WD or AWD, showing that power is distributed to all four points on (or corners of) the letter "X". The Jaguar X-Type, based on the Ford Mondeo platform, is an AWD sedan not a crossover. The BMW 325xi and 330xi are not crossover vehicles, just the AWD versions of the regular 325i and 330i.
I wonder if Subaru is considering the R1e (or something like it) as a possible competitor for that car here? Maybe there is a market for micro cars here after all?
Keep in mind there is a Crossover Sport model in Japan, but it is *not* the same as the XS. So your guess is as good as mine, as to what the letters mean.
...what everyone thinks of Honda's SUT concept. To me, it seems like everything the Baja could've/should've been. And Ford's Freestyle (not to mention the Pilot, Pacifica, et al) would seem to have the jump on Subie's long-awaited (i.e. we're still waiting) 7 seater. I like the R1e.....looks way better than the R2 and would make a great commuter/city car.
folks at nabisco are already complaining about no 6MT and "only" 250 HP! they are completely missing the 250 ft/lbs of torque at 3600 rpm and factory estimated 5.5 seconds 0-60! its the cure for all of us who have been deep in xtreme torque envy! the reference to a reinforced 5MT must mean they have a re-worked, if not new, 5MT, not the same one already in the 04 XT ... a 6MT compact enough to fit in that space while having enough structure to handle that kind of torque is a engineering paradox that leads to reliability problems. I'm ecstatic! I cant wait for Juice and Bob's seat-of-the-pants reports tomorrow! (Which one of them has the responsibility to keep our collective/vicarious drool off the leather?) Well done SoA! Mark
then I calmed down and did more thinking and reading. I'm happy, though honestly, I'm alittle uncomfortable with the 5MT until I know gear ratios and tests.
Other than that, I don't mind the 250 split. The car is lighter and I come to reality that Subaru will be conservative, yet once again
I also had to laugh when I read people complaining about *only* 250HP. The XT dyno estimates are about 240HP at the crank. The GT probably gets a larger intercooler and blower that would contribute to higher numbers.
I also suspect that the Legacy GT "reinforced" 5MT is also the same unit used in the Forester XT. It probably doesn't make sense from a cost standpoint to have so many 5MT versions.
The 5MT is making me lean torwards getting the 5EAT for now, though.
Anyone know if the GT headlights are halogen or HID? There's no specific mention, yet the closeup photo shows a distinct HID-blue shade.
The need/desire site states that these are preliminary numbers. Maybe they'll get revised upwards at a later date?
Not that I'm complaining it sounds great to me! How long does it take for them to release pricing info? Just getting my checkbook warmed up for the deposit. ;-)
2.5i models get 168hp and Sportshift optional. Aluminum hood, too.
GT gets turn signals in the side mirrors, 17"s, 3 spoke wheel. No surprises there, Aussie models get those. 4 stage heated seats, was 2 not enough? :-)
It's may get crazy the next couple of days. There are a lot of 2005 Legacy topics, but this one has always been popular so let's try to focus the discussion here. After all, it is a Future Model.
Know, if the folks at SOA. stood on their heads and whistled Dixie out their rear ends some folks still would not be happy.
You are always gonna hear not fast enough, to expensive, not enough features,and on and on.
And you will get people with more money than brains who will buy a GT and then proceed to pull it apart and sell the OEM stuff for a fraction of it's worth and then stuff it full of aftermarket stuff.
There are eejits over on Nabisco offering stuff for sale out of STIs that they havn't even taken delivery of yet.Not so long ago you heard bring the STI here and we will not have to do anything to it.
Face it there will always be malcontents who will never be happy.
One this I like, that was carried over from the Japanese and other-market models, is minimal body badging. There's no "2.5 GT" or "AWD" (from what I can see), or any other distracting badges. As a result, the new Legacy really comes off as being very classy and very understated. Not so for '04 and earlier models. I hope this trend continues with other future Subie models.
Also, I'm kind of glad the Legacy come standard with a 5-speed manual. I'm not convinced a 6-speed (with this state of tune) would be of any advantage, other than for braggin' rights. I think a 6-speed will come, but maybe with the STi version.
Well, this is most likely my last post before leaving for Detroit...
I was hoping that the MT version would at least get VTD instead of the VC. Subaru has coupled VTD (well, technically DCCD) with a MT so why can't it be done with the Legacy GT?
Well, with VTD, 5 cogs and steering wheel mounted shift buttons, I think I'm going with 5EAT on this model.
juice and Bob: Have a great trip. Leave some breadcrumbs for when I get there on Monday.
Comments
-juice
Bob
I believe that you will find that the "X" may not stand for crossover (as in crossover vehicle). The Forester XT was never considered a "crossover", just a variant on the Forester that was designed before the "crossover" term was starting to be used by Detroit. They did this to avoid their perception of a stigma in the use of the terms station wagon, wagon, minivan, soccer-mom, etc.
The "X" is a symbol for 4WD or AWD, showing that power is distributed to all four points on (or corners of) the letter "X". The Jaguar X-Type, based on the Ford Mondeo platform, is an AWD sedan not a crossover. The BMW 325xi and 330xi are not crossover vehicles, just the AWD versions of the regular 325i and 330i.
Bob
Bob
Bob
-juice
From http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/forester/presentation/
"The distinctively styled Forester 2.0 X and 2.0 XT build on "the Crossover" concept, and take it on to new heights."
-Dennis
To me, it seems like everything the Baja could've/should've been. And Ford's Freestyle (not to mention the Pilot, Pacifica, et al) would seem to have the jump on Subie's long-awaited (i.e. we're still waiting) 7 seater.
I like the R1e.....looks way better than the R2 and would make a great commuter/city car.
Freestyle looks interesting, but I worry about Ford's execution, not its ideas.
-juice
Ken
It's up!
Legacy GT Limited with 5EAT for me, please!
Ken
-Frank P.
-Dennis
-c
the reference to a reinforced 5MT must mean they have a re-worked, if not new, 5MT, not the same one already in the 04 XT ... a 6MT compact enough to fit in that space while having enough structure to handle that kind of torque is a engineering paradox that leads to reliability problems.
I'm ecstatic! I cant wait for Juice and Bob's seat-of-the-pants reports tomorrow!
(Which one of them has the responsibility to keep our collective/vicarious drool off the leather?)
Well done SoA!
Mark
250hp is a nice even number, not too crazy to keep the insurance agents happy.
We go tomorrow, still in DC for now.
-juice
Other than that, I don't mind the 250 split. The car is lighter and I come to reality that Subaru will be conservative, yet once again
does it hhave nav ?
I also suspect that the Legacy GT "reinforced" 5MT is also the same unit used in the Forester XT. It probably doesn't make sense from a cost standpoint to have so many 5MT versions.
The 5MT is making me lean torwards getting the 5EAT for now, though.
Anyone know if the GT headlights are halogen or HID? There's no specific mention, yet the closeup photo shows a distinct HID-blue shade.
Ken
Not that I'm complaining it sounds great to me! How long does it take for them to release pricing info? Just getting my checkbook warmed up for the deposit. ;-)
-Ian
-juice
Bob
GT gets turn signals in the side mirrors, 17"s, 3 spoke wheel. No surprises there, Aussie models get those. 4 stage heated seats, was 2 not enough? :-)
-juice
-juice
-Brian
http://www.media.subaru.com/
It looks like only leather-equipped Limited versions of the new Legacy (GT & i) will get moonroofs.
Bob
You are always gonna hear not fast enough, to expensive, not enough features,and on and on.
And you will get people with more money than brains who will buy a GT and then proceed to pull it apart and sell the OEM stuff for a fraction of it's worth and then stuff it full of aftermarket stuff.
There are eejits over on Nabisco offering stuff for sale out of STIs that they havn't even taken delivery of yet.Not so long ago you heard bring the STI here and we will not have to do anything to it.
Face it there will always be malcontents who will never be happy.
Cheers Pat.
click on GT specs
Sounds like a mini-VDC system working there.
Ken
Oh well, there is the aftermarket, or maybe I can learn to live without a moonroof.
Sounds like no VTD, though?
-juice
DaveM
-Frank P.
...must stay focused...will get Forester XT...hey look, a black GT sedan...will get Forester XT...
Good luck Juice & Bob at the show!
-Brian
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessio- - - - - - - nid=16wchdxYhO2kJYW6k1VlcglctzfNLEufC6tUrsWOw461M3fY2evU!66335485- - - - - - - 2?basestyleid=100351178&styleid=100311564&styleid=1003443- - - - - - - 09&styleid=100320608&styleid=100339606&refid=&max- - - - - - - vehicles=5&op=3&tab=features
One this I like, that was carried over from the Japanese and other-market models, is minimal body badging. There's no "2.5 GT" or "AWD" (from what I can see), or any other distracting badges. As a result, the new Legacy really comes off as being very classy and very understated. Not so for '04 and earlier models. I hope this trend continues with other future Subie models.
Also, I'm kind of glad the Legacy come standard with a 5-speed manual. I'm not convinced a 6-speed (with this state of tune) would be of any advantage, other than for braggin' rights. I think a 6-speed will come, but maybe with the STi version.
Well, this is most likely my last post before leaving for Detroit...
Bob
Well, with VTD, 5 cogs and steering wheel mounted shift buttons, I think I'm going with 5EAT on this model.
juice and Bob: Have a great trip. Leave some breadcrumbs for when I get there on Monday.
Ken