Options

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

1241242244246247446

Comments

  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    A Truck-sized Loophole
    Will all sedans eventually morph into light trucks and SUVs?
    http://planetizen.com/news/item.php?id=11842
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    ”Will all sedans eventually morph into light trucks and SUVs?”

    A logical assumption if they keep the current system.

    "Subaru's strategy highlights what environmentalists, consumer groups and some politicians say is a loophole in the fuel economy regulations”

    Well that’s an understatement. Anybody with half a brain recognizes it at a huge gaping “loophole”.

    -Frank P.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lots of press on this. I'm not sure I have time to read all those, but the word is out.

    Watch, it'll be a huge hit, LOL. I bet 50,000 buyers are telling themselves, "Cool, I can get tinted windows now."

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,397
    I understand that Subaru wants a design element that clearly identifies its cars. Like the BMW "kidney" grille.

    However, I personally think the new design is hideous and cannot see myself owning it. Guess I'd better get a turbo Legacy before its next re-design.

    Jim
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Bet y'all didn't know the 2005 Legacy is advertised as "Featured Ride" on Car&Driver.com right now. There's a little picture of the GT sedan, linking to www.need-desire.com which is just a pretty Flash with info we already knew... except that the Outback will be introduced in Chicago Feb. 6. Also some nice pics - though not as informative as Juice's of course :-)

    Bart
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Maybe Subaru deserves credit for pointing out how ridiculous this loophole is and all this publicity will get someone's attention so the laws will be changed. In other words, maybe it's reverse psychology to get the government to change the standards so the playing field is more level?? Subaru has always been a little ahead of the curve and it does seem strange that they would be talking about SUVs when all the auto makers are starting to jazz up their sedans.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    to the Chicago show and will be sure to get plenty of pics of the new Outback for the crew.

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool Papa Bear. I really want to know what the main differences are, will it get:

    * integrated towing
    * low range
    * tinted windows :o)
    * more power (could be)
    * suspension changes
    * Navi

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    On the road, the boxer burble at idle dulls to a refined hum, and performance is brisk, with 0-60mph in 9.4 seconds,

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/previews_story.php?id=43198
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    even though Subaru is going to classify the Outback as a truck, Subaru is making great strides in making all it's vehicles lighter and more fuel-efficient. Current generation Forester came in lighter than the previous one and ditto for the new Legacy/Outback. Look at the fuel economy gains being reported in the Brithish press. So, even if you call it a truck, the new Outback is lighter, cleaner and more fuel-efficient than it's predecessor....what's to complain about?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru announces that they'll earn past CAFE credits by retroactively classifying the Subaru XT a commercial fleet vehicle:

    http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pac2e2e56ec0c6ef65be9- 3c13e7f79991/f9ee114a.jpg

    All it needs it one of those stick-on logos from a utility company.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    yes, SoA made those points in the press release.
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    even though Subaru is going to classify the Outback as a truck, Subaru is making great strides in making all it's vehicles lighter and more fuel-efficient. Current generation Forester came in lighter than the previous one and ditto for the new Legacy/Outback. Look at the fuel economy gains being reported in the Brithish press. So, even if you call it a truck, the new Outback is lighter, cleaner and more fuel-efficient than it's predecessor....what's to complain about?

    Beat me to it. I'm a member of the NRDC, but I just dropped my membership to the Sierra Club because of over the top bitching just like this. So Subaru is making its vehicles MORE fuel-efficient, but because they are being classified differently, you have a problem with it? Keep it up, NRDC, and you'll end up like PETA - a fringe organization that has maginalized itself by protesting on increasingly ridiculous issues.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/101056/page011- .html

    what happened to edmunds's love for passat ? 5th place !!!!!!!!!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Passat's getting a little long in the tooth. It's only really been face-lifted since...way back when.

    -juice
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    2001.5
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even then, wasn't that a face-lift? How far back does the chassis go, 1998 or so?

    -juice
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    That sounds about right. The 2001.5 redesign was a bunch (2300, I think) of little changes, but the basic car looks the same.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mostly a nose job and new taillights.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Isn't the Passat based on the last-gen A4 chassis? That was introduced back in 1997 or so.

    Ken
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    have a feeling OB sedan may be offered in GT version to boost its sales as well.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Thanks.

    Let us step back for a minute.

    The newer Outbacks are to be lighter & more efficient
    (3-4 miles per gallon better) than the old ones. So,
    what if they are classified under Light Trucks ? We
    have to ask a bigger question as to why Outback's
    competitors are classified as Light Trucks ( PT
    Cruiser ? ) & that's really what is motivating OB to
    be reclassified.

    Maybe Subaru is proactive in doing this so that the
    Law will be changed so that it is a level playing
    field for Outback & its competitors.

    Krish

    --- NRDCinfo <nrdcinfo@nrdc.org> wrote:
    >
    > Dear Krish,
    >
    > Thank you for contacting NRDC and for commenting on
    > our press release about Subaru's recent attempt to
    > make use of fuel economy loopholes. You're
    > absolutely right about the importance of putting
    > pressure on major American vehicle manufacturers,
    > and we have had several full-scale campaigns based
    > on this over the past four years, beginning with our
    > EarthSmartCars campaign, which concluded after
    > collecting more than 100,000 consumer pledges to
    > purchase cleaner, greener vehicles if Detroit would
    > build them, and publicly delivering seven mailbags
    > filled with pledge cards to automakers at their
    > annual auto show in January 2001. For information on
    > how cleaner vehicles can reduce Americans' reliance
    > on oil and to send an action message to GM, see
    > NRDC's Break the Chain campaign at
    > www.nrdc.org/breakthechain/. We focused this press
    > release on Subaru because we believe its move to
    > reclassify its Outback models as SUVs shows contempt
    > for the environment and runs sharply counter to the
    > image promoted by the company. Again, thanks for
    > contacting NRDC. Feedback is important to us, and
    > we appreciate your taking the time to write.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    > Kate Brauman
    > NRDC Membership and Public Education
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    skirted around the whole response while selling her organization.

    Greg
  • mutsuraboshimutsuraboshi Member Posts: 30
    I am wrong;

    But Subaru classifying the Outback as a Light truck should encourage the other makers to increase the fuel efficiency on their products to compete with the Outback.

    Is this a bad thing?

    Luch
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "But Subaru classifying the Outback as a Light truck should encourage the other makers to increase the fuel efficiency on their products to compete with the Outback."

    My son couldn't get a Beyblade to spin like that!! LOL

    According to the NRDC article, Subaru's average CAFE number has been dropping for years - I can't confirm that. But, it's not the fuel efficiency of a single model that is the issue, it is the average of all units solds ie 10K at Outbacks at 24 mpg, 50K Imprezas at 31 mpg...

    CAFE: Corporate Average Fuel Economy.

    See the following and go to the bottom of Page 3:

    http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/fefact01.pdf
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting point of view, Luch.

    I got my dad out of a string of SUVs into his Outback. He had a Cherokee, an Explorer, then two Land Cruisers before his OBLtd.

    Subaru's mileage has been dropping, indeed, but because they're making bigger cars and stopped selling FWD in 1995.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rob: look at the Forester. Subaru stuck it out and called it a car, but this actually worked against it. So, so many people dismissed it immediately for being just a wagon.

    If it had more clearance and bigger engines, they would have sold more all along.

    The market has spoken, and perhaps sadly, people want more power.

    You know what happened to Impreza sales when the WRX came out.

    They doubled.

    In this market-based economy, Subaru would be foolish not to change their strategy, which didn't really work in the past. RAV4, CR-V, and Escape all easily outsell the Forester.

    What would you do, if you also had a responsibility to your share holder to make a profit?

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "What would you do, if you also had a responsibility to your share holder to make a profit?"

    Probably the same thing. Yes - if Subaru wants to expand it's market it has to start offering SUV's. But it will come with a price: alienation of a core customer group and a re-evaluation of their marketing strategy.

    As I said before, I don't have an issue with them going in this direction. My issue is with the "suprise" reaction to the backlash presented here. For years they've touted themselves as eco-friendly. Now by going the SUV route - even if it is the most fuel effiecient SUV out there - it is a negative in the eyes of eco-community - a major supporter/customer of Subaru.

    As much as I hate this phrase: this is a paradigm shift for Subaru.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That is a dilemna they are well aware of. I was talking to Sam, of SoA's e-Business group, and that's exactly what he was concerned with. And he didn't know the answer, BTW.

    Question is, if Subaru was so eco-friendly in the past, why were they such an afterthought in terms of sales?

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "Question is, if Subaru was so eco-friendly in the past, why were they such an afterthought in terms of sales?"

    Most buyers don't truly care about them being eco-friendly?? You'd have to ask their marketing dept that.

    My guesses:

    NE, CO, UT, PNW markets too small
    somewhat quirky products/features
    products not generic enough for mainstream buyers
    products not positioned as performance leader
    products not positioned as safety leader
    products not positioned as quality leader
    poor distribution
    fear of leaving current market niche
    silly Paul Hogan ads.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Exactly, Rob. Not enough people cared.

    We're in the minority. I actually cared about the EPA mileage numbers.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/power15_20040115.htm

    If you spend any time on Edmund's boards, including the Subaru boards, the main topic of conversation is 0-60 times and horsepower. The manufacturers respond to market forces. Hence if the public demands horsepower, that is what they make. The day the majority of the American buying public stops buying horsepower over fuel economy, then the manufacturers will respond.

    It's funny, in 1994 we bought a Taurus SHO. At the time this was the quickest volume vehicle in it's class. 220HP and 0-60 times of about 7 seconds. Today, for a performance sedan this would be an average performer at best. My wife traded this in in 2001 for a Forester S and the minor hit in acceleration was hardly noticable in day-to-day driving. She had freinds that couldn't believe her Forester was only a four cylinder. She found things that she missed from the SHO, but all out acceleration wasn't one of them. Nowdays 0-60 times of 7 sec. are treated like they are a snail's pace.
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    or mis-perception. Most likely when the new 7-passenger crossover debuts, it too will be a truck. I doubt it will get the negative response that the Outback has gotten. Same with the Honda CRV or Pilot, all of which are trucks; for that matter all minivans are trucks. Anybody complaining about them?

    The issue here is Subaru took a car (good) and is making it a truck (bad). In the eyes of many, it's a step backwards, and in the wrong direction.

    The "reality" of this change in minimal at most. The "symbolism," however is huge&#151;and that's what people are reacting to.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Exactly!!!!!
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    is also a good indicator of how many eco-sensitive people know about the Outback. Or, how the Outback has become a symbol of the outdoors.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Forester is a truck too! I thought it was a car.

    Subaru's Baja pickup and Forester SUV/wagon are already qualified as light trucks. With the Outback qualifying as a light truck, it may serve a function in the automaker's CAFE, even though SUV-like features are the main motivation for the change.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6769&sid=24- - 1&n=163

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that don't get DRIVE magazine (which US-Subie owners get). Here's the cover story, which is on the future of Subaru design.

    http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win04_DesignRevolution.htm

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Anybody notice there's no mention of the new Legacy in Edmunds coverage of the Detroit show? I hope that was a mistake, and not intentional...

    Bob
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    the response I got was something about how they were only showing "New" releases and that the Legacy had already been shown in Frankfurt. Who the &*%$ in the U.S. pays attention to the Frankfurt show!

    I think Edmunds dropped the ball big time on this.

    I thought you and juice were the ones providing the Edmunds coverage! LOL! ;-)

    -Ian
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    they do have that goofy Soa PR interview on legacy, that's all.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Did anyone else notice that that PR gal looks like the one driving the sedan in those official Subaru pictures of the new GT. OK, I admit you can't really see the woman in those pictures but the hair style matched anyway. ;-)

    -Ian
Sign In or Register to comment.