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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    i like the car connection article.....well balanced
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    sweet_subie's the one who usually posts links to other Subie articles, but here's one I found:

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/51241

    Simply a Forester with a WRX STi drivetrain transplant. Hold on a second...

    ...there. I had to wipe the drool from my keyboard. I know we'll never see this but please, could we have WR Blue for our XTs? The car looks wonderful in that color.

    Ed
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    that's a really lame excuse. the in january 2002 the WRX had already been shown numerous times because it (obviously) debuted months before that in Japan and Europe.

    then the WRX STi gets press when it was released.

    apparently Japan's car of the year 2003 isn't worthy of coverage?

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Power will be plenty in a special Forester, sold in Japan from February on. The Subaru technicians will use the 2,5l WRX engine with 300hp, including the 6-speed manual.

    Exterior will feature a complete Aerodynamic-pacakge, a better brakesystem an 18 inch Wheels.
    Inside there will be Recaro-sportseats, a sporty steering wheel and special instrumentaltion.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    has images of the new Legacy. Interestingly, the images (rear shots) don't show the extra badging that US-spec models get.

    http://www.media.subaru.com/

    Bob
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    I don't really love the looks, but, man oh man would that work for me! Subaru, bring it on over!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    but the spec sheet is gorgous! :)

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bob,

    Interesting catch. I kind of like it with less badging, however.

    http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pbc19b9f8e208240370bb- aa10f56c406c/f9f50eeb.jpg

    Did you also notice that it appears as though the Legacy has clear corner lights on the need-desire.com website?

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I DEFINITELY like it better with less badging. As to the web site, no I didn't notice.

    I think someone over at nabisco mentioned that we don't get LED backup lites on the wagon, that other markets get? Again, I didn't notice that.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    tincup brings up a good point, and think about this. The number of people that put emissions and fuel economy as a top priority is limited, and you could argue most of those will move into Prius or RX400H or Highlander hybrids.

    So Subaru might not have kept those customers even if the Outback had remained a car.

    Bob: remember, Legacy already debuted in a previous show, Edmunds covered it already. I bet they will cover the Outback only because it is significantly different than the overseas models.

    I also think carconnection might be wrong. Subaru only mentions the Baja, not the Forester, as preceeding the Outback in that way.

    Ed: we'd be fighting over that one. How 'bout we take turns driving in shifts, the other one navigates. Deal? :-)

    Ken: the rear tails have those subtle white stripes I mentioned. From certain angles you see them, in that pic you don't. It's a cool but subtle effect, one of my pics showed it well.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I see a lot of potential for hybrids. If the Escape, Highlander and RX400H are well executed, I can see the floodgates opening up. While it's true that the number of people who put emissions and fuel economy as a top priority is limited, there are plenty of people who consider fuel economy (and emissions to a lesser extent) when deciding which vehicle to buy. If given the option of getting significantly better fuel economy without sacrificing performance, I think a lot of them will jump on the hybrid bandwagon. Heck, if Subaru offered a hybrid Forester that came close to the XT's performance and got 35 mpg, I'd probably be first in line to buy it. Well okay, Jack would undoubtedly be first in line :-)

    -Frank P.
  • zmanzman Member Posts: 200
    Frank,

    Ditto, on all three points.

    Zman
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    what Frank said!

    Bob
  • dsattlerdsattler Member Posts: 135
    Does anyone know when the 2005 WRX will be introduced and what, if anything, will change from the 2004? Juice, Bob, any discussion on that when you were in Detroit?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Should be on the lots in the summer. Probably no major changes from the 04 facelift. The whole Impreza lineup is scheduled for a major redesign for the 06 model year. We'll probably see those in the spring of 2005.

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I expect minimal changes. Maybe a revised logo/badging on the rear deck, to keep in line with the new Legacy look.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    One of the most requested changes has been the AWP with the wagon. That would be an easy change for SOA. Maybe well see that.

    Ken
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
  • mutsuraboshimutsuraboshi Member Posts: 30
    Subaru not to take anything from GM. Not even their cupholders, sunvisors or carpeting. Dont even mention chassis, engine or suspension.
    It will mark the beginning of the end for Subaru.

    Luch
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that leaked out at Detroit... As you may recall, juice and I may(?) have inadvertently stumbled upon a new Forester LL Bean trim level for '05. If that's the case, I'm wondering if it will replace the XT w/Premium Package? Keep in mind there is already an LL Bean Forester sold in Japan.

    Bob
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    The outcry is also a good indicator of how many eco-sensitive people know about the Outback. Or, how the Outback has become a symbol of the outdoors.

    I think that's a lot of it. There's probably a sense of "betrayal" among the environmentally concerned who have for years been railing to lower CAFE standards and eliminate the light-truck loophole. Now the very manufacturer who they've seen as a friend of the cause has gone and taken advantage of the loophole themselves (even though their mileage is actually going to get better). It's sort of like Et tu, Subaru?
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    "Whats with the hackneyed cladding?". I couldn't agree more, the latest edition of "Drive" points this out on their show vehicle like its a good thing. Looks like a cheap after thought. Yuck! I have a couple of friends that used to be Saab fans. They've all but given up, and are now looking at the likes of Audi, BMW and even brands that they never would have previously considered, yes thats right, Japanese brands. They feel the GM influence is on route to ruin the marque. Will the loyal Subaru enthusiats come to the same conclusion? Will history repeat itself?
     Damn shame Mitsubishi pulled the plug on US rally racing. I guess Subaru would be racing against themselves. Look what happened to BMW and Porche when they pulled out of rally racing years ago. While they haven't been economy cars for many decades, they went absurdly upscale and forgot the fans who got them there. Personally I think there is room for some improvement in the luxury department with Subaru, but, I don't like the smell of the fog up ahead. Without the the racing program to support the "performance" image what will they fall back on. After the demise of performance the usual modus operandi is elitism, and luxury.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Wow, a lot of questions there merrycynic. Too early to say about some of them. If the marque can maintain its brand identity (and maintain or improve build quality) without too much dilution then most likely there is little to worry about. Given that the WRX wagon is soon to be solds as a Saab and the Forester is sold as a Chevrolet on the Asian subcontinent, that could be a concern. Hopefully Subaru will not be forced to sell yet another rebadged version of the Chevrolet TrailBlazer.

    As for their racing program, they only pulled out of the US SCCA program. Not the best PR but, as you point out, there are no other factory teams currently running in SCCA ProRally. The FIA World Rally program is still going strong, and the company can bask in the glory of having the current Driver's Champion in Petter Solberg.

    Ed
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Look at it this way: Subaru wants to expand it's market and go upscale. Do the demographics of SCCA ProRallying meet the intended target for Subaru in North America? Or are those fans just another niche market that cannot support their goals?
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    You have mail. I didn't know how often you checked that account.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: good points, but I'll add a few. It's not just fuel economy, it's also:

    * range
    * quietness at idle
    * HOV lane access in some states
    * tax deduction
    * sales tax exemption (in MD at least)
    * novelty factor
    * potential generator (for work sites)

    Add those up and it's a lot more then fuel economy. In fact the Prius is getting real world mileage closer to 45mpg, not significatly better than a Corolla or Matrix. So fuel economy alone can't sell it.

    No GM platforms, please. No exceptions. No good could come from that.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I read your first e-mail message and owe you a response. It's not my work e-mail so usually I check it once before I leave for work, once at lunch, and then when I get home.

    Thanks,
    Ed
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    If Subaru uses any of GM's platforms, chassis, interior, exterior, electrical parts, microparts or any parts for that matter; consider me a Non-Subaru owner!

    That's my word!!!!
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Subaru gets heavily involved with GM I would have to say this would be my first and last Subaru.

      Cheers Pat.
  • self_mechanicself_mechanic Member Posts: 95
    Ditto from here. My wife finally admits that my 02 LL Bean has grown on her. So, when her 16 years old 160K miles Corolla is on the final leg, she would consider a Subaru. If the GM get its hands on Subaru, the deal is off.

    Alland
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Host Karen asked me to delete my copy & paste "Growing Pains" posts from the Car Connection site. Here's the actual link, which wasn't available to me last night when I posted it.

    http://TheCarConnection.com/index.asp?article=6778&sid=175&am- p;n=156

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bob- No doubt that tyrant Karen also sentenced you to 30 lashs with a wet noodle :-)

    -Frank P.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    It's already happening, we just can't see it. So far, I think it's been beneficial -- Subaru just gets better buying power for parts. Thankfully, we are not sharing parts with actual GM products, yet... Although one could argue that the availability of OnStar on the LL Bean and VDC Outback is sharing.

    If Subaru co-developed a platform with Saab, for example, I wouldn't be offended. The new Ford Focus platform was co-developed with Mazda (3) and Volvo (S40) and looks like a good deal for all involved. The Saab 9-2 and WRX connection could be similarly beneficial in the future.

    Craig
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think we all shudder at the idea of GM getting their hands onto Subaru products especially with the Saab 9-2X. It appears on the surface (pun intended) that the ailing factions of GM are benefiting from our brand.

    Craig provides a good example with the recent C1 platform from Ford. Here's one instance where three manufacturers can leverage development and still come out with three distinct products. While I haven't seen the European Ford Focus yet, the S40/V50 and the Mazda 3 have been getting very promising intial reports for both styling and performance.

    Ken
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://new.caranddriver.com/article.asp?intAsvPageCurrent=13&- section_id=31&article_id=7671#subaru_legacy
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wonder if there is indeed going to a LL Bean '05 Forester, if it would have the H-6, to set it apart from other Foresters? I'm not sure that an H-4, even with the turbo, would be enough to make that model unique. Offering it with the H-6 and the 5EAT w/SportShift would, however.

    Bob
  • FrankMcFrankMc Member Posts: 228
    I know Rolls Royce for years used GM Transmissions. I personally wouldn't be in favor of rebadged Pontiacs being sold as Subarus, but I know the auto makers buy a ton of components for their vehicles. They wouldn't get the stuff from GM anyway, but from the auto parts suppliers (Delphi, Dana,etc). I guess I would be more open minded about shared technology than some of the comments I have been reading.

    Frank
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Bob- I don't see the Forester getting the H-6. Subaru already considered and discarded that idea and they certainly aren't going to resurrect if for a "trim package".

    -Frank P.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    For some reason, I don't see this happening. Granted, the H6 would probably get better gas mileage than the 2.5-turbo. I'm guessing the LL Bean model would come with the 2.5-turbo, but have a more outdoorsy image than the XT.

    Craig
  • martinphilipmartinphilip Member Posts: 2
    on the 2005 Impreza. I agree with Mr rsholland that Subaru will put the next MY Impreza "in sync" with the new Legacy. The SAAB 9-2x will give us clues. The rear bumper has exactly the same shape as the new Legacy, also getting the dark apron to cover rear muffler and transmission. Integrated roof rails and rear spoiler. A more subtle air intake, on the bonnet, like the 9-2x. The SAAB interior shows a lot of Forester details carried over to the Impreza. Door handles and the mid console. This has all been done because it serves Subarus purpose not SAABs.
    Best Regards
    Martin in Sweden
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I attended the Utah International Auto Expo over the weekend, and noticed Subaru brought in the new Legacy sedan. What was interesting was the response. NO ONE was looking at it. Nada. Not one single person during the time I checked it out.

    Subaru had it roped off, so you couldn't get inside, and they only brought in the base engine model. Those two things can definitely chill enthusiasm, but I expected more excitement than none at all.

    A friend of mine had a hard time distinguishing the exterior changes from my '00 Legacy GT Limited sedan, which is interesting since he's a car nut like me (more of an Audi/Ferrari fan).

    Oh well, I thought the car looked great.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    tyguy,

    I'm surprised that Subaru is already showing the new Legacy at auto shows other than the "big" ones (Detroit, Chicago, LA).

    However, the lukewarm public response is kind of familiar. When I was at the Detroit auto show, there were only a sprinkling of people who were drooling over the new Legacy (including myself). From the small sample of people I spoke to, they were already Subaru owners. Most of the time, they sat unnoticed. The STi and WRX were getting the bulk of the foot traffic.

    Part of it, I attribute to the way the vehicles were shown on the floor. At Detroit, both sedan and wagon were railed off and could not be entered. They were also positioned towards the very back corner (sedan) and the very edge (wagon) of the booth away from the walkway -- Not quite the way you generate excitment over a brand new product.

    I sure hope they do a better job showcasing the OB and new Legacy at Chicago!

    Ken
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    That certainly sounds familiar, Ken. The Legacy just seemed ignored, by both the attendees and the Subaru reps. They didn't even have an STi like they did last year, so all the drooling teens had to settle for the Mitsu Evo.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From over at nabisco:

    An inside source which should be considered reliable passed information to me that SOA is still planning a performance version of the Legacy and are still considering something around 280Hp, although it could be more!

    Timeframe mentioned was "around September delivery".

    Reportedly this is in addition to the Legacy GT turbo that we know of.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll join the folks here in a mass boycott if Subaru sells a TrailBlazer or even a crossover with VersaCrap.

    Ken/tyguy: with that in mind, we have to ask ourselves if Subaru is really giving the new Legacy the respect it deserves, or will it continue playing 2nd fiddle to the Outback?

    Don't ya love rumors? Subaru is known for limited edition runs in other countries, why not here?

    While you're at it, put that 280hp tuned engine in the Forester LL Bean!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    with the Detroit coverage, and nary a word about the Legacy turbo, or even a photo. To add insult to injury, there's an article on hybrids at Detroit, and no mention of the B9 either. :(

    Bob
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    This is getting ridiculous. With Subaru's goal of increasing their sales to 250,000 units in this country they sure are in need of a reality check.

    With the VERY poor placement of the new cars in Detroit, to the not allowing people to climb in and play touchy feely, to the lack of coverage in the press to the questionable tactics by the U.S. design team (where they'd rather "LULL" us into liking the new Legacy rather than "WOW" us. See "bumper" discussion at nasioc.com). I think Subaru of America needs a PR wake up call.

    -Ian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think part of the problem with the Detroit show placement is that the local group gets the final call on how to run the booth. I heard from one of the booth reps at NAIAS that SOA had okayed people getting in and out of the Legacys, but it was reversed by the show floor manager. Nonethless, the result was a little weak compared to the build up SOA had generated with their press event, web-site and advertisements all over Detroit airport.

    A higher performance Legacy in September? With all these new models coming out in 2005, I *seriously* doubt they would do something like this so soon. While I would love to see a Legacy STi model now, that's probably something that's best kept in the back pocket after the "base" Legacy GT builds up a reputation. That's the equivalent of Subaru introducing the STi the same year of the WRX intro. I don't buy it.

    Ken
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Ken- I agree. Subaru will wait at least a year before introducing a higher performance (STi) model.

    -Frank P.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    It is utterly sad that Subaru has gotten little attention from show both from press & from people.

    Why are people so carried away by brand names......I would continue to buy Subaru ( until GM messes with it ) !!!!!!!!!!!

    My 1st: 1994 Legacy Sedan
    My 2nd: 2001 OB H4
    My 3rd: 2002 MPV
    My 4rd: 2005 Legacy or OB H6 or LLBean Forester
    My 5th: Sell 02 MPV & buy 2005-06 7 seater
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