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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I would think the 2-3-2 format would be cumbersome for entry and exit in the rear 2.

    -Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Maybe. For a short time, perhaps. Maybe there will be no '05 model or '06 model, but Subaru would be foolish to give up on the idea (or name).

    If it does take a production vacation, I hope it comes back built on crossover platform, which most likely will be a far better platform to build off of for this type of vehicle.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I wouldn't read into that too much. It could just mean the current Baja will stop being produced when the new bodystyle starts production at SIA.

    There's another vote for an Outback turbo. It's a little strange to get two engines on the same car with the exact same output, but my guess is the turbo will be priced lower, while the H6 will be aimed at near-luxury buyers.

    Turbo will be cheaper and faster, I bet.

    LL Bean Forester to get more power? 250hp engine maybe? Can you imagine? What, did they feel the XT was too slow? LOL

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This deserves a seperate post.

    2-3-2 or 2-2-3? What would I prefer? Hmmm.

    I would like 2-3-2 if the middle seat slid forward, or at least if the seat split 60/40 and each side slid forward individually.

    That way you'd usually have the rear 2 folded, and use them occasionally.

    If it's 2-2-3, they'll probably have captain's chairs. My nanny would have to sit in the 3rd row, which wouldn't be too bad I guess if access it OK. But the 3rd seat has to SPLIT fold or it would simply not meet my needs. The nanny could sit on the 40 portion while the 60 portion folds.

    Come to think of it, 2-3-2 works better for us for sure.

    Besides, how wide will the 3rd row be? They're almost never wide enough even in vans.

    -juice
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,397
    Brenda is a edukater. Im sur she talks good.

    I look fourword to meating her.

    tHe end.

    Jim
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    2+3+2 in the cargo area like the good old days of station wagons.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    2-2-3, this way the "3" is way in the back for when I am transporting my daughter(s) and her/their friends. The noise is further away. :)

    Greg
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I would prefer the 2+2+3 config, so long as the rear seat can be folded up for when not in use for more storage capacity. I hope that you folks are correct and they bring the Baja back on a bigger platform. I know I'm in the minority, but I like the idea, and look of it.

    Mark
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I have a feeling this might replace the current H-6 cloth model. This new XT might be contented a bit lower than H-6 models, as juice implied.

    Bob
  • mutsuraboshimutsuraboshi Member Posts: 30
    if that 280/300 hp H6 planned for the 7 seater is the same engine being developed for the B11S?

    Luch
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I bet the LL Bean Forester is just the Forester XT with the actual engine output. :-)

    Ken
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I guess that Big-elm won't be buying a Subaru since there are lots of delphi electronics (AKA GM) in all subies. I bet the G35 has some non-nissan stuff too.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    GM build trannies for BMW?

    G
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    OK OK OK ... I guess this means I have to bring the digital cam so we can post a pic huh ? ...

    Today was a "Subie" day .. we had about 8 inches of snow and there's another 2-4 predicted overnight ...
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Heh, BMW's 5-speed automatic might be built by GM. You could be right, Greg... I think I remember reading that. I know their manuals are built by Zuffenhausen though. The ZF 5 speed in my M3 is magical, but scary. It is fully capable of shifting into first gear instead of third at 60mph with no grinding and the result would be death by overrev to a very expensive S50 inline six.

    whoa, off topic. sorry. :)
    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's some talk over at nabisco, that Subaru is considering offering a rear-facing third-row seat (a la MB E-Class & Volvo wagons) on the 7-passenger crossover!

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Gee like that never happens around here :-)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Are built by GM. Here is the link....

    http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/hydra/app- s/5l40.htm

    -mike
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    To admit anything good about GM but they do build a pretty good slush box.

      Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LOL Ken.

    Note they did say 3.0l for the 7 seater.

    paisan: is that why we've had a lot of electrical failures lately? Just kidding...

    GM makes the best slush boxes, lots of hyper luxury cars use them.

    Rear facing would be a mistake IMO. You have zero cargo space. It would also be cursed as too wagon-like from the get-go.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    + Easy access for those passengers

    - Safety (I would think)

    - No (or very little, and hard to access) storage space when all seats are being used

    - Discourages dialogue with rear seating (could be a +, depending on who's there)

    - Not sure I want to see where I've been (I prefer looking forward)

    - As a driver following a car thusly equipped, I don't like staring at people in cars directly in front of me, who are staring back at me.

    Bob
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    When I was a kid, my parents bought a new 1971 Plymouth Satelite wagon with the rear facing seats. My brothers and I used to fight about who was going to get to sit back there. One day, when the car was only about 1 month old, Dad was driving home from work when a large box truck overturned in the next lane, flipping over onto the rear of the Plymouth. The car was crushed, from just behind the second seat area. Luckily, there were no passengers in the car at the time. Anyone in the rear seat would have been killed. From that point on, Dad swore off Chrylser products AND station wagons forever (he felt they were jinxed).

    Len
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It would be tough to make them safe with essentially no crush zones. A front facing 3rd row would have at least a small cargo area behind it as a crush zone.

    Another factor is nausea, you get car sick more easily facing back.

    I don't like the one in the Taurus and Volvo, they are such afterthoughts, tacked on. This would be a big negative to me. I'd get a Sienna instead.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    forester now comes with premium with no leather option........that's an improvement.

    hope subaru will do these in 2005 leg & OBs.

    BTW, XC90 has the largest moonroof i have ever seen.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    forester now comes with premium with no leather option........that's an improvement.

    hope subaru will do these in 2005 leg & OBs.

    BTW, XC90 has the largest moonroof i have ever seen.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Still auto only though? Is that for the XT?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wonder if this will replace the XT Premium Package model?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems likely, since I bet it'll have all that equipment.

    -juice
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    I was told yesterday again by my dealership friend that 05' Outback Turbo will also come in a cloth / no sunroof model. Again the Turbo Outback is a yes and now they are adding 2 models one 5spd and one Auto cloth no roof. So now if my memory serves me right the models will be as follows:

    Outback 4cyl 5spd man
    Outback 4cyl 4spd auto
    Outback Lim 4cyl 5spd man (Leather/roof)
    Outback Lim 4cyl 4spd auto (Leather/roof)
    Outback Turbo 5spd Man (Cloth/no roof)
    Outback Turbo 5spd auto (Cloth/no roof)
    Outback Turbo 5spd Man (leather/roof)
    Outback Turbo 5spd auto (leather/roof)
    Outback LL Bean 6cyl 5spd auto(Obviously loaded)
    Outback VDC 6cyl 5spd auto(VDC/MP3 player ??)
    Outback Sedan 6cyl (Loaded / non vdc)

    So many choices now. I like having more to choose from 6 or 4turbo, etc....

    I hope this helps. I know it can change again anytime, because I stopped by the dealership today to get an oil change and when I went to talk to my sales manager friend. I was told they just added those non leather turbo models. 8 days until the press conf........
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It'll be interesting that the quicker turbo will actually cost less.

    I don't think the turbo will match the Legacy GT's 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, because it'll have much bigger tires and therefore taller gearing, just like the current model. Still, I bet it'll be in the low 6s.

    I don't see how the H6 can match that. I bet that one will be in the 7s, but of course very quiet and refined.

    That'll make the turbo a bargain. They're gonna sell a lot of those. I bet that's the reason for the whole CAFE/truck thing - the volume will be in the turbo model, which is also probably less fuel efficient than the H6.

    Just guessing.

    -juice
  • simon_txsimon_tx Member Posts: 42
    If those are all sold as different models then Subaru is doing nothing for me.

    If those are going to be offered as options on fewer models then I like that.

    I posted in the suggestions for Subaru to streamline their offerings and differentiate their cars better.

    For example - can't they just pick a generic name system like

    Outback
    Outback SE (sports edition) throw all the turbos here
    Outback LE (luxury edition) and throw the VDc and LL Bean in this group

    My simple mind would prefer to choose the options for the base package (whether my base be the SE or LE) rather than Subaru putting all the options into 10 different models.

    Just my opinion
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The problem with stand alone options is that it raises production costs to levels tha subaru can't afford, being 1% of the car market.

    -mike
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    please please subaru make the base price of the 5 speed turbo OB close enough in price (Canada) to the base 4cyl for my wife not to notice.

    We have to get out of my 2K Forester L before the powertrain warranty expires (we have had to replace the head gasket, wheel bearings, clutch, coils, clock and about five oxygen sensors...but willing to give subaru another try).

    I have my heart set on a FXT. But the jump from Forester X/XS to XT is a hard hard sell for me (not to mention the need for premium gas), but I may pull it off on the OB. Extra towing capacity in the Turbo (??) may be the clincher. The taller gearing may also help gas mileage and make the OBT a little less intense??

    Any speculation on pricing? The base has to be close to the current OB (cnd$32K), and hopefully the T4 engine is the only difference from the base 4 cyl.
  • simon_txsimon_tx Member Posts: 42
    While I'm start knowledgeable of all the features of every vehicle Subaru makes - if you look at the lineup I see the following:

    What is the difference between the Limited and the standard Outback - is it just the leather or cloth option? I'm sure there are some other things, but in my opinion they are basically the same car with one major option (seating material) nad maybe some cosmetic differences. I see no reason to distinguish these as separate models.

    Listed here the Turbos look like a lot of models, but on the lot they will all be one model (Outback Turbo) and the seats and roof differences are really just options.

    Then you have the LL Bean and VDC.

    The interesting thing to me is that the LL Bean implies some higher level of vehicle, but when I last looked I thought the VDC was really the more "loaded" vehicle.

    I see your point Mike, but my main complaint is that with very subtle differences between models, the models run together and you start to lose focus on what your trying to buy.

    I think the limited is really a wasted model - just roll into the regular Outback.

    I've never really understood the LL Bean and Eddie Bauer stuff (didn't GM have a model named after a mountain biker - Gary Fisher or something). I know a lot of that is marketing, but who really cares about the LL Bean logo - they just want the options the car has. Not sure how much longer they have the agreement for but to me the LL Bean and the VDC are the "luxury" version with the VDC having some extra features.

    While I know Subaru has always garnered significant, almot cult-like, bran loyalty - long-term no brand will really survive at a reasonable price only achieving 1% of any market.

    Sooner or later they will have to go after the average buyer, not just the loyalists. Since I consider myself more the average buyer (since I don't own a Subie) I find the combinations and differences between the models much less clear than what some other automakers do.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Don't be disappointed if it's about 2K extra for the turbo, maybe 2500.

    -mikw
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Wow, that's certainly a lot of different model variations! I agree it does get a bit confusing. I wonder how the LL Bean and VDC models will pan out.

    I wish Subaru had offered the GT with a VDC option. Many of the competiting vehicles offer some form of stability/traction control. Since the GT auto already has VTD, it wouldn't be too difficult to implement.

    Ken
  • mutsuraboshimutsuraboshi Member Posts: 30
    IMO Subaru should distinguish the OB/T from the OB/H6, by calling the OB/T the 'sport' model.

    It will have less luxury options, bigger tires, extra skid pads etc, make it just a little more offroad worthy. ($25-$27k)

    While the OB H6 will be silky smooth, accompanied by the relevant options with a bigger price tag. ($27-$33k)

    Luch
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    that will conflict with the Outback Sport [Impreza].

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, if the Outback turbo prices out below the Legacy GT, which it might, who knows, I may consider one. It's ready to tow, and I do sometimes use the extra clearance.

    This Fence is cozy!

    -juice
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Don't know.... still seems like an oxymoron to me...
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    admit - I like the idea of being in the minority of driving a Subie (although you wouldn't know with all the Foresters running around here). I hope the new Legacys don't get too popular.

    Greg
  • gmanmdgmanmd Member Posts: 20
    Does anyone know if Subaru offers (or will offer)a no-leather option in the Outback VDC? Also, not everyone who wants a moonroof wants leather, so they really should be separate options and not a package deal. I like that they will offer the Forester prem package minus the leather. I currently have a 2001 Forester S that is coming off of warranty and I am definitely looking at either the XT or the Outback VDC (yes I know they are in different price categories). Also, does the H6 run on premium fuel or regular?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Right now, the Bean and VDC only come with leather. I am guessing that's not about to change, but there is a lot of speculation at this point and nobody knows for sure. The 05 cars will be formally introduced next week, so we will know then.

    H6 specifies premium, but you can downgrade to regular. In my opinion, you're better off sticking with premium.

    Craig
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    Gee, I've had leather and fabric, and prefer leather. Leather is easier to keep clean, feels nicer and is less likely to cause the gathering of upper garments. I just hate sitting against the those bulky wrinkles. With fabric seats, I'm constantly sitting up and forward while one hand gathers and pulls down on the fabric climbing up the back of my seat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm with you, I want a moonroof but not leather. In fact we relied on the aftermarket for *both* our Subies' moonroofs.

    Let's see, the 2000-2001 GT had that, heated cloth with moonroof. Ideal IMO. You can't get that in a turbo 5MT Forester, though. WRX wagon gets no moonroof at all. Outbacks force you into leather.

    I agree, rethink grouping those 2 together.

    My Miata has leather. In the summer it gets sticky and hot, pretty nasty actually. I would accept it IF it were perforated. Heated seats are an absolute must with leather, too. I don't have that either in the Miata.

    So cold or hot, I choose cloth.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I choose cloth too, always. It's like one of two things Juice and I agree on. :-D

    ~c
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    prefer it in the Texas heat and the South Bend winter ...(I once bought the only Suburban on the dealer's lot with cloth ...)
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    with bun warmers for me.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm not a fan of leather; never have been.

    Bob
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