Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rsholland · January 2004

Interesting article over on subdriven.com on this topic.

Bob

trueawd · January 2004

As I said...here it comes. Sweeeet!!

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6807

Sorry I just realized it was already posted...

merrycynic · January 2004

Not exactly upscale, sophisticated marketing to my mind. Bland, blase, out of the catalogue, off the rack, uninspired with out any sense of uniqueness. Brings to mind armchair outdoor posers. Doesn't do anything to ignite the imagination of technical superiority or luxury. Seems like a sure fire way to dilute the "cult" following Subaru has developed. Subaru would be better off trying to develop a signature house design. The same way that another small auto firm, namely Porche has. I'm no kid, but it's kind of old farty to my way of thinking.

p0926 · January 2004

Where's the majority of LL Bean's name recognition and sales?

Loosh- You'd think the US would be the obvious answer but in many non-English speaking countries, products prominently displaying US brand names are extremely popular. I'm not saying that's the case here but it's possible.

-Frank P.

p0926 · January 2004

merrycynic- LL Bean is by no means suppose to represent technical superiority or luxury, it's intended to project an outdoorsy active lifestyle which is a core market for Subaru.

-Frank P.

rsholland · January 2004

it that the LL Bean will be the Forester XT with the Premium Package, and have some LL Bean fairy dust sprinkled upon it.

I'm hoping this may mean that the (base) XT will become a bit more focused with some suspension upgrades, such as 17" wheels, fatter anti-roll bars, etc.

Bob

merrycynic · January 2004

Frank,
Am I the only one who thinks it projects a farty inactive poser in an armchair dressed in hunting gear next to an overweight yellow Lab laying on a plaid orthopedic bed?

rsholland · January 2004

that sounds like me...

Seriously, yeah, you could be...

Most *outdoorsy* vehicle brands have an *image* model like the LL Bean, even Land Rover.

Bob

p0926 · January 2004

merrycynic- Well since the US population is more obese than ever (both people and pets!), that might be the reality but since when did advertising have anything to do with reality (The Coors Light twins spring to mind)? However, it's not totally fantasy... I ran 4 miles yesterday with my black Lab and I'm sure at least one item of my attire was from Bean :-)

-Frank P.

merrycynic · January 2004

Frank,
Now I know why our perception differs. It's the BLACK Labs that dominate Field Trials.

sweet_subie · January 2004

LL bean is very popular in the NOrtheast US.

kens · January 2004

is still there:

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/llbean/

Ken

rsholland · January 2004

I must have missed it.

Bob

ateixeira · January 2004

Jeep had Orvis, not they partnered with Columbia. Ford with Eddie Bauer, etc.

I think the LL Bean tie-in is fine. Their store in Tysons Corner, VA, is very nice. In some stores, if you fly fish, there are ponds where you can "test fly". Really.

Doesn't seem like a lazy image to me. King of a hiking/fishing outdoorsy feel to it. Perhsps their smaller stores don't convey that image as well?

On the JDM model, I don't like the two-tone exterior, in fact the monotone is one thing I like about the XT and the XS Premium. Beige replaces gray, but again I prefer the gray. No cross bars but that may be in Japan only.

-juice

p0926 · February 2004

FYI: After something like a hundred years in the mail-order business, Bean only recently started opening retail stores and currently only has the Tysons Corner one and maybe a couple of others.

-Frank P.

rsholland · February 2004

Someone from nabisco just did a copy and paste of an Aussie Liberty (Legacy) GT road test. It was a very favorable write-up, and at the very end it mentioned that a batch of special 6-speed manual Legacy GTs are being readied for the Aussie market. If you recall, Liberty GTs, Oz-spec, currently are only available with the 5EAT.

So, first Oz, then North America? I say we see the 6-speed manual on '06 models.

Speaking of 6-speeds, the all-new Lexus GS ('06 model?) will have a close-ratio 6-speed automatic with sequential shifting. I wonder if Subaru is working on a 6EAT, as it seems that's where the market is heading, at least for *sporting* cars.

Bob

cusafr · February 2004

Bob: I have driven 4-5-6 speeds. My preference is the 5-Speed. Six is just too many in my opinion. You end up with a first gear you go two feet and are shifting.

Make mine a 2005 Legacy Turbo-5-Speed. Now if they made an H-6 with a 6-Speed, well...

CUSAFR

rsholland · February 2004

I think 6-speed manuals have their place, but I'm NOT convinced they make the most sense for most owners. As you stated, you are always shifting.

I think close-ratio 6-speed manuals have their place in:

* Engines with narrow powerbands
* Hard-core, ultra-sporting cars
* In markets where high speed cruising is allowed.

I think wide-ratio 6-speed manuals have their place in:

* Trucks and SUVs, and perhaps crossovers.

For the rest of the market, even for most sporting cars, a 5-speed is all you really need. 6-speeds do however, have much more *marketing* appeal than 5-speeds.

Bob

p0926 · February 2004

The XT could benefit from a 6th gear. There have been a couple of times when I've reached to shift only to discover that I was already in 5th gear. So adding a 6th gear would allow for more leisurely hwy cruising as well as better hwy mpg. Alternatively, they could change the gear spacing of the current 5 gears.

-Frank P.

atlgaxt · February 2004

I have gotten used to the black and gray interior in my puke green / kind of gold in some weird lighting conditions FXT. However, the one thing that I think might be useful about an LL Bean FXT would be if it came in some additional exterior and interior colors.

rsholland · February 2004

falls in that SUV category I mentioned. I'm not sure it should be a wide-ratio unit, or a close-ratio unit, however. Maybe crossovers, like the XT, should get gear splits that fall half way in between a close-ratios and wide-ratios?

Bob

ateixeira · February 2004

For the XT, they could shorten every current gear and add a 6th.

1st would then be a creeper towing/off road gear, 6th a tall cruising gear.

I haven't really tried a 6 speed. My Miata could use one, by 70mph it's screaming loud.

-juice

robr2 · February 2004

I'm late to the party but LL Bean has been huge in Japan for years. They opened thier first international store in Tokyo in 1992.

Japan is a big market for them and it is a bit of a showey/poseur society so LL Bean Subes are probably more popular there than here. IIRC, you can buy mud in Japan to splash on your SUV.

jfl · February 2004

I'd like to see sixth gear lower the rpms for freeway cruising and, hopefully, improve mpg.

Splash mud ON your car??? And here ... we have our OCD members ... go figure.

Jim

ateixeira · February 2004

I'll sell anyone mud that wants it. ;-)

-juice

bigelm · February 2004

Yeah, but what about better fuel economy for those who drive (cruise) alot. Also, less drivetrain stress?

And as for shifting alot... you still have to with a 5 speed anyway, so what's the difference, 1 more gear? Puhleaz...

bluesubie · February 2004

I'm with Ed on this one. It's only mentioned in the domestic market section of the speech. I guess time will tell. :-)

-Dennis

locke2c · February 2004

only in very few cases are six speed gearboxes constructed with ratios to actually give better economy than equivalent five speeds.

usually, they offer nearly the same final drive in top gear and just offer better acceleration by making all the ratios closer. in the case of the Forester XT though, it's obvious the engine has ample torque to be able to use more overdrive in this proposed 6th gear and be no worse to show.

~c

glycinemax · February 2004

FHI is going to provide Eclipse with mass production process development and wings in-exchange for stir welding??? Check out Eclipse. It looks like a potential power-house. http://www.eclipseaviation.com/

rangner · February 2004

final drive ratio is the real key to better hwy mpg. Just think, there used to be 2 speed transmissions and they could run hwy speeds. It's not the number of gears, it's the ratios.

I'm all for a higher final drive ratio--let the engine run 1500 rpm at 70mph instead of 3000rpm.

Eric

locke2c · February 2004

1500 is not doable. it's only a 2.5L four and during cruise it won't be on boost.

below 2500 is fairly iffy.

~c

bigelm · February 2004

I know the 6 speed does not determine the fuel economy, but it's the ratio.

But under 'normal' mechanical implementations, the gear ratio in a 6er is/tends to be taller and more spread out to take advantage of (let's say) Subaru's powerband on the new Leg. Unless Subaru would change the final drive on the 5 speed, not much has been accomplished.

Heck, my wife's OBWagon is @ 3k RPM's while doing 70MPH. I think if the GT was at 2500 RPM's at 70MPH that would help fuel consumption considerably.

rsholland · February 2004

is on the next new wave of sports cars, and the B9 is a featured model. R&T gives it a very good write-up, and likes the styling to boot.

Tidbits:

Mr. Z mentioned that the B9 has received a warm reception, and that the B9's face will be on all future Subies.

The B9 is built off the current Forester platform!

I only glanced at the article, so I'm not certain if the B9 is a "go," or if a vehicle like it will actually show up. I need to go back and "read" the article...

Bob

cptplt · February 2004

totally OT but since someone is talking about FHI aerospace activity, FHI will be responsible for the wing box of the new Boeing 7E7, in fact 35% of the 7E7 will be from Japanese suppliers (which with probably Alenia(Italy)s half of the 25% going to Vought/Alenia will see close to half the plane from non US sources) and thats before even factoring in possible Rolls Royce engine British content or GEs 10-20% sourcing from Frances Snecma for all their recent bigfans. Which will likely make any new Boeing 7E7, less American than many Airbuses are American!
And to top it off, since the Japanese suppliers are expecting significant "loans" from the Japanese govt, the 7E7 may have more govt sourced development funding than recent Airbuses!
Gee, its just like the car companies and "domestic" content!

kens · February 2004

Bob,

No Legacy GT review? :-(

Ken

rsholland · February 2004

I can't believe that there hasn't been any mention of the new turbo Legacy at Detroit by any of the major car rags!!!

Bob

jfl · February 2004

Hmmm...those of us who get a Legacy GT will have a sleeper! 8~)

Jim

cusafr · February 2004

I could not see the difference between the GT and the GT-Limited. I'm sure it's something simple, someone please tell me.

Thanks,

CUSAFR

rsholland · February 2004

gets leather, moonroof, 8-way power driver's seat, and power passenger seat I believe.

Bob

rangner · February 2004

what do you mean by 'on boost' we're talking about a NA right? Anyway, these new turbos seem to spread it out pretty well across the powerband.

My figures may be a bit low, but you get the idea.

Eric

rsholland · February 2004

When both the gas engine and the electric motor are running, it puts out 270 HP.

Bob

rangner · February 2004

Now that's some performance!

Eric

p0926 · February 2004

Eric- I don't know about Colin but when I discuss a 6-speed I'm assuming that it would only be an option for the turbos since they have the extra HP to justify it. I see no advantage to adding a 6-speed to the N/A 2.5L. But adding an "over-drive" gear to the turbo models that allows them to turn 2500rpm in 6th shouldn't have a noticeable impact on performance but would have a definite positive impact on hwy avg mpg.

-Frank P.

rsholland · February 2004

It's 274 hp.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/stiversion/index.html

Could this show up here some day? Ken, we need your translation skills here, please.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr?doit=done&urltext- =http%3A%2F%2Fwww.subaru.co.jp%2Fforester%2Fstiversion%2Findex.ht- ml&lp=ja_en

Here's a Babblefished version of the above site. The JDM Forester STi is the first JDM model with the 2.5 turbo!

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

http://live2.truelook.com/face/newface.jsp?func=live&name=/ca- - - - ta/chicago/camera2&pan=76.40334&tilt=-10.325202&panfo- - - v=16.382164&tiltfov=12.286624&overlay=default&skin=te- - - st&useapplet=true&time=1075817517819&width=640&he- - - ight=480&quality=65&catalogname=catalog&zoom=2.533243- - - &vfmap.x=990&vfmap.y=25

And here's our Outback!

http://live2.truelook.com/face/newface.jsp?func=live&name=/ca- ta/chicago/camera1&pan=-61.35&tilt=-4.274507&panfov=9- - .5&tiltfov=7.125&overlay=default&skin=test&useapp- - let=true&time=1075790018195&width=640&height=480&- - quality=65&catalogname=catalog&zoom=4.368421&imagemap- - .x=295&imagemap.y=126&imagemap.w=176&imagemap.h=69

If you keep clicking on these images, you can see people/thing enter and leave as they are still in construction.

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

and it appears to still have 16" wheels, however w/o white lettering (YES!).

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

The white one appears to be an H-4 Limited, because of the moonroof. Not sure about the green one. It's wheels appear to be 17," and it has turn signals on the mirror. Could this be an LL Bean model?

The white one has 6-spoke bright wheels, and the green one has 5-spoke anthracite(?) wheels. Also, that dark cladding on the green version appears to be the same color as that found on black LL Beans and black Baja turbos.

http://live2.truelook.com/face/newface.jsp?func=live&name=/ca- - - - - ta/chicago/camera2&pan=119.85977&tilt=-10.767658&panf- - - - - ov=14.210416&tiltfov=10.657812&overlay=default&skin=t- - - - - est&useapplet=true&time=1075822121866&width=640&h- - - - - eight=480&quality=65&catalogname=catalog&zoom=2.92039- - - - - 3&imagemap.x=14&imagemap.y=334&imagemap.w=341&ima- - - - - gemap.h=151

Bob

rsholland · February 2004

I don't see any roof rack crossbars. Hopefully they're still in the trunk, and haven't yet been installed.

I mention this only because more and more carmakers are now making this an option, whereas before it was standard; Jeep for example. Also, Subaru de-contented the USDM Forester slightly, when the new generation model debuted. The rear bumper pad became an option, as did mud flaps.

Bob

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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