Subaru Crew - Future Models II

kens · February 2004

Perhaps the "R" was to differentiate it from the previous H6 engine?

Ken

hondafriek · February 2004

Is usually attached to Japanese cars to denote performance, as in Sentra SER, Integra GSR, Also there is an Accord TypeR and so on.

Cheers Pat.

bigelm · February 2004

Well, I got some interesting info to share with you guys as I just got back from the Philly Show and was able to spend some time with someone who had some inside info....

Here we go:

>May 17 will be the available date for "I" models of the Legacy in dealerships.
>From 1-2 weeks into June ALL Legacy & Outback Turbos will be at showing up at dealers.
>H6 will be available mid to late June
>All Legacy's w/ Auto will have the VTD
>Fully loaded GT sedan will be in the $28-$29k range (Sorry no info on the wagon but you can bet it'll be in that range as well).
>Base Legacy models will be in $25-$26k range (starting).
>7 Psngr. truck will be in NY Auto Show
>Navigation is 'in the talks' as an option for upscale models only
>OnStar on H6 models only
>No full size spare... at all!
>Baja will come in two models only: Sport & Turbo with Hard Rear Cover.
>B9 will not be shown in NY Auto Show because Subaru pulled the car to 'touch up' the design, as per feedback in Europe and Detroit (prior to public opening)
>No mention on Xenons as of yet (maybe option).
>7 Psngr. truck will have the 2-3-2 seat layout
>Warranty changes (better) are in the makes for the 2005 models because of new added safety features.
>7 Psngr. truck will have similar design to Lexus RX 300/330.
>March 9: All dealers will have info on specs, options & pricing.

I mixed up the info as they came... hopefully you'll catch them, otherwise reread

All I can say is that it was a informative and productive visit.

By the way, I'm 6'5" and fit in the Legacy Wagon, the interior space is the same on the Sedan so I'm happy I already placed my order... WOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Hey Mark... thanks again for the ride!!! ;-)
I don't think I missed anything else, did I?

rsholland · February 2004

Heard about the longer warranty, but it's news that OnStar is being continued.

7-passenger at NY? Are you sure? All the info I've seen has been pointing at Detroit or Chicago next year.

Bob

bigelm · February 2004

Hey Bob,

Yes, I questioned this several times and was told the same thing. Possible reason is because they are not going to have the B9 there and they wanted to replace it with a possible concept or 'clay' model of the 7 Psngr to fill it's spot...

So... it looks like juice is paying NY a visit after all... LOL!

nowakj66 · February 2004

Bigelm - I am 6 foot 4 -- my height is mostly in my legs - 36" inseam. I was encouraged when you said you fit at 6' 5". Not to get too personal but is your height mostly in the legs too or is it in your torso?

I have a 2002 Bean and fit all right. There is a little leg / steering wheel interference for me. Front passenger seat is not very comfortable -- not enough room in front of the seat before the floor slants up to the dash. I do fit much better in our 2003 Accord.

rsholland · February 2004

None of the interior pictures (subdriven.com) of the LL Bean indicate OnStar? Is it now an option?

Bob

sweet_subie · February 2004

Is your feedback on NAV accurate ?

bat1161 · February 2004

Elm-
No problem on the ride. It was a lot of fun. BTW-Thanks for doing most of the work on changing the flat:-) You looked like a natural in the Legacy.

Bob- As Elm said, we were talking with one of the regional sales managers who informed us they will be showing the concept of the 7 passenger at the NY show. As for Onstar, all he said is the H6 gets it.

The Legacy looks fantastic! I can't wait till NY-hopefully they will have the GT and the Outbacks there so I can sit in both to compare. I am so confused! I must say that I definitely have an itch to "upgrade".

Just to clarify a couple of things some people had asked-
The Legacy GT does have the twin chrome exhaust.
No one at the show knew why the Legacy i had no roof rails- they are not sure if it is an option, or standard. I guess they'll know after the March dealers meeting
The regional rep had no knowledge of stopping the Baja production. As Elm said, it will be going to only the Sport or Turbo, but it does get a hardcover now.

Sweetsubie- The regional rep did say he heard "serious talk" about NAV systems going into the high end. He did say that they won't know ubtil their meeting in March. I guess we will have to wait until then to confirm what is what.

All in all a very productive trip. The people we spoke with were very nice, and spent quite a bit of time talking with us.

Mark

bluesubie · February 2004

Thanks for the info!

-Dennis

rsholland · February 2004

Thanks guys!

Bob

ateixeira · February 2004

May 17, can't be more specific than that. NY show for the 7 seater? Maybe just the concept. I keep hearing it'll debut in production form next Jan at NAIAS.

Still, that's good news.

To me it sounded like NAV is on the way, Eric from SoA hinted at that. But I wonder if enough people will buy it. They dropped the MacIntosh for instance, due to cost.

The video game rumor about the possible future Impreza is interesting. I think the design is not finalized yet, and this would be an interesting way to test reactions. The pics are so fuzzy, who knows.

Good news about the towing. I'd be surprised if the H6 can tow more than the OB XT, given the XT gets bigger brakes and more torque, plus shorter gearing. It would seem to be better suited, for maybe 3500 pounds?

Craig: nice work on the chart.

3.0R - what does the R stand for anyway? Rally? All their rally cars are turbocharged, the H6 is all about quiet refinement. The label seems completely ridiculous to me, it would be better without it.

-juice (making plans for NY...)

njswamplands · February 2004

to get those people Off The Fence

self_mechanic · February 2004

"Base Legacy models will be in $25-$26k range (starting)."

I don't see how I can justify $25-$26K range for base Legacy when I want to buy one. There are many other better choices in that range.

Alland

ateixeira · February 2004

Not with side curtains, heated seats, and AWD.

Closest I can think of is the Audi A4 1.8T, add heated seats and Quattro and you're talking $30k.

Keep in mind that's MSRP, you're talking probably $22k for a base sedan, street price. Compare to the TMV of the Audi and you save $7 grand with the Subie.

-juice

pon1 · February 2004

this base price of US$25-26K for the Legacy 2.5i is correct, and if this is to be considered the equivalent of the current Legacy L, it could mean the whole range will get hiked by about $2K to keep a differential between models. Or maybe the 2.5i and the OB N/A 4 cyl base are equivalents and will be priced about the same?

Either way, if those numbers are correct, pricing on the Legacy (and OB?) now start where the Forester range (XT) ends, and I can stop cross shopping between the models.

An added complication for me is that all this assumes the the price conversion between US and Canadian models stays roughly the same...so will wait it out a bit longer.

ateixeira · February 2004

The current Legacy L/SE/35th is a bargain, but the 2005 is a lot nicer, inside and out. I own a 2002 and there is no comparison, it's a big step up.

I don't expect them to cost the same.

-juice

hondafriek · February 2004

US pricing will be the same as OZ and UK, in both of those cases the increase was not a lot over the older models.

Cheers Pat.

kens · February 2004

Thanks for all the good reporting.

So, my question is when the dealers will have information. If the new models are going to start tricking in around mid-May, shouldn't dealers have option/pricing info at least a few weeks in advance?

I called my local dealer and the told me that they (dealers) are always the last to know because Subaru wants them to focus on clearing MY04 inventory. Makes sense. Unfortunately, the public has already started a mental switch to MY05.

Ken

ateixeira · February 2004

Most dealer staff know less than any person here, basically.

I heard the dealers would have ride-and-drives in the new Legacy in August. That's where they comparison drive it next to competing vehicles.

By then everyone here would have test driven one already.

-juice

rsholland · February 2004

Yeah, we could be their instructors!

Bob

bat1161 · February 2004

That was the other thing the regional rep said. Subaru is pushing to get the 04's out now, as you can tell from their ads (1.9% or $1500 cash back). As Elm posted, they told us the dealers will have a better idea on price and options by March 9.

There is a definite "upscale/nicer" feel to the 05's. That, coupled with the improved standard safety features, make this a serious contender.

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

Great time to get a deal on an LL Bean...

-juice

kens · February 2004

Most people here know more than the staff at trade shows too!

I love it when I'm standing there explaining to a rep on how things work on our Subies and why it's better than the competition!

Ken

bigelm · February 2004

First... sorry for the delayed response... it's been a rough day and now I just found out I'm going to have to fly to Puerto Rico as my father is very ill!

The base i model that was shown to us had Auto, leather, moonroof, CD Changer Dual Climate and a couple of other goodies. We were pointed out that this particular model would be in the $25-$26k range.

So if you're going for a 'No Holds Bar', strip model, then we're looking at $23-$24+k.

nowakj66- I'm 36 inseam as well but I guess I'm well proportioned all around ;-)... heheheee.... annnyyyywwaaayyyyyy... I was very impressed with the legroom on the driver's side, though the passenger side still had mixed feelings. It did have an improvement but not a major one. It would definitely be uncomfortable after a 1-2 hr. ride. Since I won't be on the passenger side, then it's all good :-D

johnclineii · February 2004

Take care. I, as I am sure many others do as well, pray for your dad.

subearu · February 2004

from the Chicago show. (pics d/l to 'puter as I type). I have 185 pictures to sort through, probably not nearly enough of the Outback. At about 100 pics, the low battery light came on, but somehow I managed to get 85 more pics in, so I guess I was lucky.

Got pics of the dual NON-chromed tipped exhaust. Only the 2.5i was not roped off. Sitting in it feels very similar to my Outback, but you feel a bit more upscale in it as well as it feeling a bit bigger. Doors close solidly even with the window down. The moonroof is gigantic. XT is the only model where the clading color matches the body color.

more later...

-Brian

c_hunter · February 2004

Best wishes for your dad.

Craig

nowakj66 · February 2004

Thanks Elmer. Glad to hear it is a little larger. And best wishes for your dad.

sweet_subie · February 2004

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04037/269721.stm

techies, pls explain what this means ?
There were a few problems -- the engine wasn't all that smooth. There were a number of times when, whenever I would slow down, I'd feel a solid "whump" as though the transmission was hunting for gears or the engine was trying to cope with what I was asking of it. Then, just a second or two before the car would stop, I'd feel another, smaller "whump" as it pulled to a rest. Not being a mechanic, I can't identify what was going on, but I know it was annoying, puzzling and definitely not normal.

Another source of irritation was the automatic transmission gearshift lever and shift pattern. It required an awful lot of stirring, pushing and pulling to get it engaged in the gear I wanted. This is an irritant I've encountered on other cars, too, such as Jaguar, with its antiquated "J" pattern for its floor mounted gear shift.

fibber2 · February 2004

"There were a number of times when, whenever I would slow down, I'd feel a solid "whump" as though the transmission was hunting for gears or the engine was trying to cope with what I was asking of it. Then, just a second or two before the car would stop, I'd feel another, smaller "whump" as it pulled to a rest."

OK - Imagine you are slowing down from high speed. At any time during this deceleration, you might want to suddenly begin to accelerate again. Naturally, you would want the transmission to be in the right gear so that you could take off immediately. You wouldn't want to wait for it to downshift from 4 to 2 or 1 in order to begin.

Behind the scenes, that is what your automatic is doing. You might do something similar if you were driving a stick. And if you weren't terribly skilled at matching engine revs to gearing, you might indeed feel a kick as you sequentially downshifted and released the clutch each time.

When in deceleration mode the throttle valve is closed, & your tranny is transitioning thru the gears, but at a greatly reduced fluid pressure. The torque converter lock has probably disengaged, the convertor is acting like a drag brake rather than a high efficiency coupling, valve body is 'relaxed'. Usually you don't feel much engagement until it drops all of the way down to 1st gear, and then usually only a very muted 'push'.

In the case of this test car, there could be problems. Electronic transmission controls, fluids regulator, etc., could all be raising pressure to the point that the evaluator could indeed feel each downshift.

Steve

bat1161 · February 2004

Elm-

Sorry to hear about your Dad. I hope everything is okay, and our prayers are with you. This, on top of your wife and son. Hope they are feeling better. Take care of your self.

As for the quality of the 2.5i, there is a world of difference between this "base" model, and the base OB that I have from 2000. There is nothing "base" about this vehicle anymore, in my opinion and it is definitely worth the sticker price they are talking about. Again, we'll have to wait until March to know definitive published prices.

Mark

ateixeira · February 2004

You got inside a new Outback? I'm so jealous! Too bad Philly overlapped, we might have seen one otherwise.

I wonder if the SportShift tranny does a better job at matching revs. At least the tranny is getting in the right gear for no-hesitation acceleration at any speed. That's better than being smooth to shift but hesitating when you need to get moving.

bigelm: hope your pops bounces back quickly.

-juice

bluesubie · February 2004

Hope your Dad is ok.

-Dennis

rsholland · February 2004

sending positive thoughts your way!

Bob

ateixeira · February 2004

OK, a couple of "detail" questions, since you were able to get inside.

How dark was the tint? It's hard to tell from photos. Is it as dark as, say, a Grand Caravan's tint?

Also, what about seat height. Do you just slide over into the seat, step up, or step down into it?

Finally, what kind of presence did it have? Were there crowds around it? Did it look and feel beefy?

-juice

subearu · February 2004

it looked like the windows had a bit of a blue hue to 'em, more than normal. I took a few photos but will have to see if they show the difference. The lighting at McCormick gives a lot of blue tinting to things as well.

Dad duties called last night, hopefully I'll get my pics up tonight.

-Brian

ateixeira · February 2004

I understand completely, same thing happened to me!

-juice

hondafriek · February 2004

I hope your father has a quick and full recovery.

Cheers Pat.

nygreg · February 2004

I hope your father is OK. Thanks for the info.

Greg

salbaby1972 · February 2004

Hope you Dad gets better soon. Thanks for the info. You've been a great help!

--Sal

kens · February 2004

Hope your dad is okay.

Ken

kens · February 2004

Okay, so with Automobile magazine showing up in my mailbox yesterday, I received all my March issues of my car magazines (C&D and R&T also).

Lots of coverage on the Detroit show. No mention of the new Legacy.

What's up with that!?

The closest thing to a production Subaru was the 9-2X -- which made it into all three pubs.

Ken

kens · February 2004

If you have a decent photo editor, you should be able to negate the blue tint with a white balance correction.

Ken

bluesubie · February 2004

Take it from me, the less hype the better. ;-)

-Dennis

ateixeira · February 2004

Once again, Legacy GT is overlooked while the Outback gets all the attention.

I thought that would finally change, but nope. Outback is getting plenty of coverage after Chicago. Remember how little the Legacy got?

-juice

nygreg · February 2004

have mixed feeling about the coverage of Subaru. I think people are missing out on a great "find", but don't want everyone and their mother (or father) buying one. I like to be different.

Greg

kens · February 2004

True, while less coverage = more chance of being a sleeper, a LITTLE love wouldn't hurt!

I'd like to see some "Short Take" on the GT. I dying to hear some real world driving reviews.

Having worked with the press, I totally know how difficult it is to change their perception and focus. SOA clearly was trying with the Legacy launch with all the build up, but I guess it still gets shadowed by the model that pulled the company out of the red.

Ken

rsholland · February 2004

to some comparison tests. I bet it will get plenty of press then.

Bob

subearu · February 2004

kens Feb 10, 2004 4:43pm

Yeah, I'm trying the EasyShare software that came with the camera this time to 'adjust' the photos. In the past I've used Photoshop, but my old Sony just had a natural favoritism to blue regardless.

-Brian

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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