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Comments
-B
Also, I love being different, feeling a sense of security that i can park anywhere without too much worry of it being stolen. Running my GT with Bimmers, Boxsters and Audis with confidence.(future dream).
Being part of the exclusive 1% market share crowd.
As Smeagol would say 'My Precious'
That's a great feeling.
Luch
Best wishes for your Dad's full recovery.
MNSteve
I would suspect the US version would be close to this, though perhaps not identical. If anything, it may be less. Any difference on the undercarriage could cause this figure to change.
If anyone has access to US specs, many of us would love to see them!
Legacy will be stealthy at first, but if it's discovered and hyped up same thing will happen to that model, and it too, will join the Dark Side. ;-)
C&D has had coverage but they're in the minority.
Autoweek was funniest. They asked for a turbo on the Forester jokingly, when they got it they were so shocked that they said maybe they should ask for more.
Still, they only did a single page quick take on the Forester and Baja, together. Lots of subscribers probably don't even recall the article.
C&D is not letting people forget. They keep bringing it up.
-juice
But maybe not, if they pick up a PZEV Outback, which used to be available only in CA, but now it also sold in several eastern states, they may be kinder to it.
-juice
They actually added the Forester XT to the 5Best Trucks, so Subaru is still on their favorites list.
-juice
It's also about where most competitors are with V6 engines and automatic. So the engine overcomes the extra drag of AWD to keep up with those.
The turbo will blow them away, though.
-juice
Greg
Interesting, however...there is no ground clearance figure for the Legacy . That clearance figure is an important marketing point for the new OB TRUCK, so maybe the Legacy is still being fine tuned. The overall height of the Legacy GT wagon is listed as almost 6 inches less than the Outback XT, but I assume most of that is in the suspension between the axles and body . The 6.1 inch clearance from the JDM/Oz release is probably pretty close for the Legacy GT. I recall Paul Hansen described the JDM Legacy GT B spec as having underbody panels to reduce drag like the new Lexus...but those didnt show up at Detroit, so who knows what the US release will be in June. I may try to see what the clearance on the New Zealand version is...they seem to have gotten something akin to the JDM B spec, with the 18 inch wheels and low profile rubber.
mark
(btw, my message from last night, about C&D-5BestTrucks, was eaten by snakes or something...)
Bart
They don't necessarily dislike Subies, they just might not buy into the value of the turbo power.
-juice
Nonetheless, we're all fortunate; with so many decent sites available, those of us who take the time can make excellent and informed assessments. My thanks to all of them.
Zman
P.S. True, Juice; CR does like the Forester X, but I suspect they'll not do much by way of scrutinizing the XT (just not their bag).
Jim
http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_145.shtml
The question is: When will we see it?
Bob
Thanks.
I'm betting the above link, with the H-6 6-speed will make it here, probably as an '06 model.
Bob
Also, there is a link to a UK road test of the current Legacy 3.0 Rn. The "n" in the name, stands for "navigation" system. So, if and when we get and USDM Subies with a nav system, expect a "n" to be added to the name.
Bob
Still, I can't help but think the Legacy GT with the turbo and 5 speed will be a much better value.
Here we go again with dumb naming, Rn should be Registered nurse!
At least the feature might arrive.
-juice
Bob
Bob
(1) Should it come to North America (I know, silly question)?
(2) If so, should the Legacy GT turbo receive the same upgrades (tranny, suspension, wheels)?
(3) If so, should the Legacy GT 5EAT remain with 17" wheels, since it is slightly less sporting, and will appeal to a non-manual, less sporting crowd?
(4) My guess is that these should be Legacy exclusives, meaning the Outback XT and Outback H-6 models should NOT receive these upgrades (except for the nav system). Agree or disagree?
(5) Should there be *n* versions of all of the above, as well as *non-n* versions?
Bob
They do say the H6 makes it power high up the rev range, so maybe it could benefit more from the gears. The turbo makes more torque sooner.
I think Subaru has to wait and see how the Legacy sells. Good as it looks, we've just been talking about how it got approximately zero attention from the media.
If the Outback still outsells it 2 to 1, that's not a lot of volume for 3 different engines.
Then again, it's really just one new tranny with an existing engine. They'd just import STi 6 speeds.
I think Subaru needs an AMG-like division to perhaps outsource production of these low-volume specialty cars.
If Subaru builds every variation, just look at this lineup for a relatively low volume platform in the big picture:
Outback 2.5i
Outback 2.5i Ltd
Outback XT
Outback XT Ltd
Outback 3.0R LL Bean
Outback 3.0R VDC
Outback 2.5i MT
Outback 2.5i Ltd MT
Outback XT MT
Outback XT Ltd MT
Legacy 2.5i
Legacy 2.5i Ltd
Legacy GT
Legacy GT Ltd
Legacy 2.5i MT
Legacy 2.5i Ltd MT
Legacy GT MT
Legacy GT Ltd MT
Legacy GT Rn Spec B
Outback 2.5i sedan
Outback 2.5i Ltd sedan
Outback XT sedan
Outback XT Ltd sedan
Outback 3.0R LL Bean sedan
Outback 3.0R VDC sedan
Outback 2.5i MT sedan
Outback 2.5i Ltd MT sedan
Outback XT MT sedan
Outback XT Ltd MT sedan
Legacy 2.5i sedan
Legacy 2.5i Ltd sedan
Legacy GT sedan
Legacy GT Ltd sedan
Legacy 2.5i MT sedan
Legacy 2.5i Ltd MT sedan
Legacy GT MT sedan
Legacy GT Ltd MT sedan
Legacy GT Rn Spec B sedan
That's on ONE platform! Crazy!
I'm telling you, acquire Prodrive or someone like that and outsource all the STi production to them. They could build one or two special models per year, however the enthusiast market demands it, using off the shelf parts.
-juice
yeah they ought to combine the LL BEAN with the VDC.
Eric
IMO they need a 2.5l engine else you don't have anything to offer under $25 grand, and that leaves a big gap in the lineup.
Also, the 2.5l is the only engine that runs on regular fuel, for some that is an issue.
Then you add the CAFE issues, at least on the Legacy since it's still a car.
168hp with 180 fewer lbs won't be a slouch. I think this will still do a lot of volume, maybe not the majority of sales but it'll probably be the single best selling engine.
-juice
can;t wait till buying this OB XT !!!!!!!!!
I think the Limited model should be dropped, and offer a "Luxury Pack" (as per Oz) or "Premium Package" with those features.
Bob
It just seems to be a glaring omission to leave the base engine the same when the entire car is redesigned and all othe engine choices are refined.
Maybe FHI still had some leftover engines they had to unload in the MY05. Hopefully next year they'll change it.
Bob-good idea, that would simplify things a bit
Eric
Did you realize even the base Kia Spectra will have variable valve timing now?
-juice
I'm not sure they changed anything significant at all.
~c
Interior on the OB is gorgeous - can almost feel that steering wheel - not fair we don't get any early car shows in TX.
Bart
CUSAFR
Although they receive better than average ratings for their reliability - many of the rankings look at the car manufacturer as a whole rather than specific models and even the specific model tanking don't always tell you how good the car is initially.
Does Subaru exeprience a lot of minor problems in the first model year of their new cars or are they pretty much the same for newer/redesigned models as the whole lineup.
For instance - I have a 2000 Maxima GLE - first year of the 5th generation Maxima. In general, it's reliability is slightly less than the history of the Maxima and Nissan's in general. The 2001 was slightly better than 2000 and closer in general to the historical reliability.
Basically - I'm a little nervouse about buying the first MY of a new generation car again.
Any thoughts - comments
I share your feelings. I have a 2000 OBW that was the first batch of the last revision of the OB. While I will stick with Subaru because I think it is a fantastic vehicle, I have had my share of problems (more than my share according to my wife). Even though I am chomping at the bit to "upgrade" I plan on waiting till next year sometime to give it a "break in" period. That may sound like a long way off, but if you think about it the 05 doesn't come out till June, so it's only another 6 months or so to wait and see.
Mark
That "n" designation for navi equipped models is dumb. C'mon Subaru, navi systems are pretty common options -- not an entirely separate model!
Not sure if the H6 6-speed would come to the us in it's Spec B form. I could see the 6MT coming in as an option to the Legacy GT Ltd, however. If it does, I still think the 5EAT should be available with the current trim. While I'm not sure what you mean by "sporting-types" I've made my mind up for going with 5EAT over 5MT with the Legacy GT. The extra cog, Sportshift and VTD are enough for me to want to ditch the 5MT.
I also have some concerns about the first year model woes, but:
- The 05 Legacy is the 04 Legacy everywhere else in the world
- The 2.5T is already being used in the STi, FXT and Baja Turbo
So I don't forsee any major issues. Did the 2000OB have that many issues when it came out?
Ken
The 2000 Outback got the Phase II engine in its 2nd year, but even then it got a new intake. It was a lot of new hardware.
The 2005 is new but some items to carry over, mostly from other models.
Buying any v1.0 is an increased risk, but at least you are hedging your best a little because some major components are proven plus we have Patti!
Some people expect a perfect car with zero problems. If you're one of those then it's simple - wait a year. Period. If you can put up with an issue or two, knowing it'll probably get fixed, then bite.
-juice
http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/119814-2111-105.html
My 98 Forester (first year, first month :-) had a couple of recalls at the beginning but then became a trouble-free dream. My 95 Neon (first-month!) started out bad and became a nightmare... Subaru just rocks.
Bart