Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    How many comparision tests did the Forester XT get? Yeah, just a new motor, but with such amazing acceleration, you would think it would have been in more than one full test at this point.

    -B
  • mutsuraboshimutsuraboshi Member Posts: 30
    Subaru continues to build great cars, and make a profit, no problem if it's still kept a secret to most.
    Also, I love being different, feeling a sense of security that i can park anywhere without too much worry of it being stolen. Running my GT with Bimmers, Boxsters and Audis with confidence.(future dream).
    Being part of the exclusive 1% market share crowd.
    As Smeagol would say 'My Precious'

    That's a great feeling.

    Luch
  • toboggantoboggan Member Posts: 283
    Thanks for the info.

    Best wishes for your Dad's full recovery.

    MNSteve
  • golfmannowgolfmannow Member Posts: 5
    The 05 Outback ground clearance has been well reported here. Does anyone know the ground clearance for the 05 Legacy GT Wagon? Thanks!
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Well, the Australian version of the Legacy, the Liberty GT, has 155 mm clearance unladen, which would be 6.1 inches, compared to the reported 8.3/8.7 inches on the US Outback (different models vary).

    I would suspect the US version would be close to this, though perhaps not identical. If anything, it may be less. Any difference on the undercarriage could cause this figure to change.

    If anyone has access to US specs, many of us would love to see them!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, WRX was such a hit that it changed the buyer core, literally.

    Legacy will be stealthy at first, but if it's discovered and hyped up same thing will happen to that model, and it too, will join the Dark Side. ;-)

    C&D has had coverage but they're in the minority.

    Autoweek was funniest. They asked for a turbo on the Forester jokingly, when they got it they were so shocked that they said maybe they should ask for more.

    Still, they only did a single page quick take on the Forester and Baja, together. Lots of subscribers probably don't even recall the article.

    C&D is not letting people forget. They keep bringing it up.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    what's CR's take on Turbos ? anyone ?
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm guessing CR will come out against the turbos mainly because of the Outback being categorized as a truck.

    But maybe not, if they pick up a PZEV Outback, which used to be available only in CA, but now it also sold in several eastern states, they may be kinder to it.

    -juice
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    inexplicably dropped the WRX from this years 10 best list and submitted the BMW M3 and Audi S4 over the Subaru WRX STi despite the fact that the STi outperforms those two in just about every performance category with about enough money left over to buy the original WRX that should have been carried over. Go figure?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they knew the 2.5T Legacy was on the way, and that engine has much better low end torque.

    They actually added the Forester XT to the 5Best Trucks, so Subaru is still on their favorites list.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    0-62 in 7.9 is pretty good, that's low 7s to 60 with an automatic. About a full second ahead of the last H6 models.

    It's also about where most competitors are with V6 engines and automatic. So the engine overcomes the extra drag of AWD to keep up with those.

    The turbo will blow them away, though.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    will say (or said) that the turbos have "lively performance" with the WRX having some turbo lag and the XTs being more smooth. They are very bland in their characterizations.

    Greg
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    are found in the pdf's you pull up when you click on specs after you have clicked to specify which Subaru model on the left margin of the home page at http://media.subaru.com.
    Interesting, however...there is no ground clearance figure for the Legacy . That clearance figure is an important marketing point for the new OB TRUCK, so maybe the Legacy is still being fine tuned. The overall height of the Legacy GT wagon is listed as almost 6 inches less than the Outback XT, but I assume most of that is in the suspension between the axles and body . The 6.1 inch clearance from the JDM/Oz release is probably pretty close for the Legacy GT. I recall Paul Hansen described the JDM Legacy GT B spec as having underbody panels to reduce drag like the new Lexus...but those didnt show up at Detroit, so who knows what the US release will be in June. I may try to see what the clearance on the New Zealand version is...they seem to have gotten something akin to the JDM B spec, with the 18 inch wheels and low profile rubber.

    mark
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    will probably gripe about small trunk or coke-can-crushing windows, and rank the Legacy third behind a Honda and a Toyota... still, their reliability ratings are very useful.

    (btw, my message from last night, about C&D-5BestTrucks, was eaten by snakes or something...)

    Bart
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Jim - check your email!
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    edmunds doesn't allow links to sites that have forums..........they ate my car&driver post as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CR rated the Forester at the top of the SUV class for a long time. It and the RAV4 have duked it out since 1997.

    They don't necessarily dislike Subies, they just might not buy into the value of the turbo power.

    -juice
  • zmanzman Member Posts: 200
    I have always found that CR is a pretty good evaluative site, with perhaps a bias towards the cautious and practical suburban driver (no big surprise there--after all, those consumers are CR's bread and butter). Nor are they altogether different from C&D, who traditionally have demonstrated a decided predilection for fast, red (and hopelessly unaffordable) Italian sports cars. My read there: those striking cars on the covers sell magazines.

    Nonetheless, we're all fortunate; with so many decent sites available, those of us who take the time can make excellent and informed assessments. My thanks to all of them.

    Zman

    P.S. True, Juice; CR does like the Forester X, but I suspect they'll not do much by way of scrutinizing the XT (just not their bag).
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Outback interior pics on need-desire.com!
  • jimmyp1atworkjimmyp1atwork Member Posts: 42
    says that a 3.0R Legacy "concept" with a 6mt will debut at Geneva this year. The article says that it shouldn't be called a concept because all the pieces are already in use on other Subaru models.

    Jim
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    At Geneva, an upgraded H-6 Legacy Spec B, with a 6-speed tranny (YES!), 18" wheels, and a tweaked suspension will be shown

    http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_145.shtml

    The question is: When will we see it?

    Bob
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Even with all of the discussions here lately one thing I have not been able to determine is if there is a 6 cylinder sedan in 2005 MY for the US market. I gather that there is not a Legacy 3.0 sedan but I thought there were discussions of an Outback 3.0 sedan. Can someone set me straight and point me to some pictures of any 3.0 sedan for 2005 if it exists?

    Thanks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There will be an H-6 Outback sedan. No pixs have been shown yet, and specs are scarce too. The only thing I've seen is that SOA has *listed* the H-6 sedan as part of the Outback lineup.

    I'm betting the above link, with the H-6 6-speed will make it here, probably as an '06 model.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2004_february/12/2034.asp

    Also, there is a link to a UK road test of the current Legacy 3.0 Rn. The "n" in the name, stands for "navigation" system. So, if and when we get and USDM Subies with a nav system, expect a "n" to be added to the name.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweetness - 6 speed, Bilsteins, 18"s, even a Torsen. The Subie for the track. Colin: your car has arrived.

    Still, I can't help but think the Legacy GT with the turbo and 5 speed will be a much better value.

    Here we go again with dumb naming, Rn should be Registered nurse!

    At least the feature might arrive.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    preliminary torque figures, my guess is the H-6 (and 2.0 WRX too) would really benefit from having a 6-speed.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru really does suffer from "alphabet's disease" when it comes to naming cars.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Assuming that this Legacy 3.0 Rn Spec-B does make production (right now it's still concept according to that link):

    (1) Should it come to North America (I know, silly question)?

    (2) If so, should the Legacy GT turbo receive the same upgrades (tranny, suspension, wheels)?

    (3) If so, should the Legacy GT 5EAT remain with 17" wheels, since it is slightly less sporting, and will appeal to a non-manual, less sporting crowd?

    (4) My guess is that these should be Legacy exclusives, meaning the Outback XT and Outback H-6 models should NOT receive these upgrades (except for the nav system). Agree or disagree?

    (5) Should there be *n* versions of all of the above, as well as *non-n* versions?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get the Rn for your daughter, who is studying in that field. ;-)

    They do say the H6 makes it power high up the rev range, so maybe it could benefit more from the gears. The turbo makes more torque sooner.

    I think Subaru has to wait and see how the Legacy sells. Good as it looks, we've just been talking about how it got approximately zero attention from the media.

    If the Outback still outsells it 2 to 1, that's not a lot of volume for 3 different engines.

    Then again, it's really just one new tranny with an existing engine. They'd just import STi 6 speeds.

    I think Subaru needs an AMG-like division to perhaps outsource production of these low-volume specialty cars.

    If Subaru builds every variation, just look at this lineup for a relatively low volume platform in the big picture:

    Outback 2.5i
    Outback 2.5i Ltd
    Outback XT
    Outback XT Ltd
    Outback 3.0R LL Bean
    Outback 3.0R VDC
    Outback 2.5i MT
    Outback 2.5i Ltd MT
    Outback XT MT
    Outback XT Ltd MT
    Legacy 2.5i
    Legacy 2.5i Ltd
    Legacy GT
    Legacy GT Ltd
    Legacy 2.5i MT
    Legacy 2.5i Ltd MT
    Legacy GT MT
    Legacy GT Ltd MT
    Legacy GT Rn Spec B
    Outback 2.5i sedan
    Outback 2.5i Ltd sedan
    Outback XT sedan
    Outback XT Ltd sedan
    Outback 3.0R LL Bean sedan
    Outback 3.0R VDC sedan
    Outback 2.5i MT sedan
    Outback 2.5i Ltd MT sedan
    Outback XT MT sedan
    Outback XT Ltd MT sedan
    Legacy 2.5i sedan
    Legacy 2.5i Ltd sedan
    Legacy GT sedan
    Legacy GT Ltd sedan
    Legacy 2.5i MT sedan
    Legacy 2.5i Ltd MT sedan
    Legacy GT MT sedan
    Legacy GT Ltd MT sedan
    Legacy GT Rn Spec B sedan

    That's on ONE platform! Crazy!

    I'm telling you, acquire Prodrive or someone like that and outsource all the STi production to them. They could build one or two special models per year, however the enthusiast market demands it, using off the shelf parts.

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    I see no reason for keeping any NA 2.5's in the 05's unless the've got AVCS. I can't see anyone who would want one.

    yeah they ought to combine the LL BEAN with the VDC.

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you recall, I'd wanted the Outback to get the H6 exclusively, then the Legacy could get the other two engines exclusively, for zero overlap.

    IMO they need a 2.5l engine else you don't have anything to offer under $25 grand, and that leaves a big gap in the lineup.

    Also, the 2.5l is the only engine that runs on regular fuel, for some that is an issue.

    Then you add the CAFE issues, at least on the Legacy since it's still a car.

    168hp with 180 fewer lbs won't be a slouch. I think this will still do a lot of volume, maybe not the majority of sales but it'll probably be the single best selling engine.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    i love the interior pics !!!!!!!!!!
    can;t wait till buying this OB XT !!!!!!!!!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree, waaaaaay too many models, but Subaru has always done that.

    I think the Limited model should be dropped, and offer a "Luxury Pack" (as per Oz) or "Premium Package" with those features.

    Bob
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    I just wish they'd give it its due and refine it.

    It just seems to be a glaring omission to leave the base engine the same when the entire car is redesigned and all othe engine choices are refined.

    Maybe FHI still had some leftover engines they had to unload in the MY05. Hopefully next year they'll change it.

    Bob-good idea, that would simplify things a bit

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We looked the engine over at Philly and paisan pointed out the biggest change was to the intake manifold, that's probably where the extra 3 hp came from. There's also the dual exhaust, so it seems more than ready for an AVCS upgrade.

    Did you realize even the base Kia Spectra will have variable valve timing now?

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    you can run the same engine twice on the dyno and get 2% more power, which is what 3HP is in this case.

    I'm not sure they changed anything significant at all.

    ~c
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    The H6-6spd should be called STi, but only if they can avoid silly boy-racer doodads. I know they'll be tempted, even this upscale. My wife saw the WRX STi and said "it's ugly in a Subaru-sort of way" -- ouch!

    Interior on the OB is gorgeous - can almost feel that steering wheel - not fair we don't get any early car shows in TX.

    Bart
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • cusafrcusafr Member Posts: 184
    The Dallas car show is early March. I wrote Subaru and asked if the 2005's would be there. They have not answered.

    CUSAFR
  • simon_txsimon_tx Member Posts: 42
    I'm seriously considering the Legacy GT wagon, but I have a question about Subaru's history.

    Although they receive better than average ratings for their reliability - many of the rankings look at the car manufacturer as a whole rather than specific models and even the specific model tanking don't always tell you how good the car is initially.

    Does Subaru exeprience a lot of minor problems in the first model year of their new cars or are they pretty much the same for newer/redesigned models as the whole lineup.

    For instance - I have a 2000 Maxima GLE - first year of the 5th generation Maxima. In general, it's reliability is slightly less than the history of the Maxima and Nissan's in general. The 2001 was slightly better than 2000 and closer in general to the historical reliability.

    Basically - I'm a little nervouse about buying the first MY of a new generation car again.

    Any thoughts - comments
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Mark-

    I share your feelings. I have a 2000 OBW that was the first batch of the last revision of the OB. While I will stick with Subaru because I think it is a fantastic vehicle, I have had my share of problems (more than my share according to my wife). Even though I am chomping at the bit to "upgrade" I plan on waiting till next year sometime to give it a "break in" period. That may sound like a long way off, but if you think about it the 05 doesn't come out till June, so it's only another 6 months or so to wait and see.

    Mark
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Well, alright! Finally, Subaru decides to hook up a manual tranny to their H6. What took them so long!

    That "n" designation for navi equipped models is dumb. C'mon Subaru, navi systems are pretty common options -- not an entirely separate model!

    Not sure if the H6 6-speed would come to the us in it's Spec B form. I could see the 6MT coming in as an option to the Legacy GT Ltd, however. If it does, I still think the 5EAT should be available with the current trim. While I'm not sure what you mean by "sporting-types" I've made my mind up for going with 5EAT over 5MT with the Legacy GT. The extra cog, Sportshift and VTD are enough for me to want to ditch the 5MT.

    I also have some concerns about the first year model woes, but:
    - The 05 Legacy is the 04 Legacy everywhere else in the world
    - The 2.5T is already being used in the STi, FXT and Baja Turbo
    So I don't forsee any major issues. Did the 2000OB have that many issues when it came out?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good one swampy!

    The 2000 Outback got the Phase II engine in its 2nd year, but even then it got a new intake. It was a lot of new hardware.

    The 2005 is new but some items to carry over, mostly from other models.

    Buying any v1.0 is an increased risk, but at least you are hedging your best a little because some major components are proven plus we have Patti!

    Some people expect a perfect car with zero problems. If you're one of those then it's simple - wait a year. Period. If you can put up with an issue or two, knowing it'll probably get fixed, then bite.

    -juice
  • merrycynicmerrycynic Member Posts: 340
    Rumor has it that the Legacy STi will have a much more powerfull twin turbo 6. If it's going to run with Audi and BMW S & M vehicles it will need something like that. I hope it comes with 3 differentials and as a WAGON. I've been crying for an Impreza STi Wagon or even a Forester STi, but, a Legacy STi wagon might well be the best for me! BTW, I agree a more toned down mature looking vehicle would be better. Hey, the early M3's had a lot of the current STi elements with bulging fenders and all. Perhaps Subaru will follow suit. At the prices I expect an STi legacy would demand I suspect the audience may be more mature and just as demanding of more subtlety.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    I am assuming that the ROW 04 Legacy's are not built in the US. Is that correct? So my main reservation with the new 05 US model would be build quality issues since the factory in Indiana has never built the vehicle before.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Lafayette Subaru plant to get boost

    http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/119814-2111-105.html
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Based on CR charts, the 2000's were initially "average" reliability but as they aged, became "better than average" (the same 2000's.) What that means is, once your car gets its initial fixups it should be no worse in the long run than others.

    My 98 Forester (first year, first month :-) had a couple of recalls at the beginning but then became a trouble-free dream. My 95 Neon (first-month!) started out bad and became a nightmare... Subaru just rocks.

    Bart
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