That 14.9 sec. quarter mile is similar to my auto trans Passat W8. The auto trans H-6 model will be noticeably slower, but still a better replacement for my W8 than the current GT. For VW and Audi AWD owners who are targeted by SOA the six's refinement and jerk-free accel is a basic requirement.
That site mentioned another wagon, not a sedan. Other words used to describe it this second vehicle were 'flexible seating' and 'challenging.' I'm assuming that challenging was used in reference to the engineering of it. It was also mentioned that it would fit very well into the Subaru image. By that I'm assuming it's a bit odd and/or different.
I'm wondering (hoping!) it might be a vehicle that incorporates a rear sliding roof like that found on the GMC XUV and the old Studebaker Wagonaire. Maybe that's how the Outback might evolve?
August is the month where americans go on holiday. My work was deserted, everyone was gone.
Like Brazil, Australia is in the southern hemisphere so their summer break happens in December/January. They are in the middle of winter now, not their summer break.
We will be introducing a totally new 2006 crossover utility vehicle in May which will undoubtedly add incremental sales and profit to your Subaru business. The 2006 Impreza and 2006 Forester will both receive face lifts and our 2.5 liter power trains will also be strengthened. These are just a few of the product enhancements we have planned. My point is, your Subaru product portfolio is the strongest that it has ever been, and it is going to get even stronger.
I wonder if the (base) 2.5 engine will receive a DOHC (again) and variable valve timing? Note: the word 'powertrains' is plural. I wonder if that means all 2.5 engines might be getting timing chains, or some other common upgrade(s) of some sort?
If I could have gotten a Forester PP package (leather and roof) with a 5 speed and the base 2.5 had a little more power (maybe 180 - 190 hp and a similar increase in torque) with variable valve timing, we probably never would have gotten a turbo. Not that I regret having a turbo, but I think I would have been perfectly happy with a NA engine with little more power and a stick shift.
I think we will see some *hints* of it though. I bet we'll see stuff like the Subaru oval logo replacing the word "Subaru" on the rear deck. Maybe the grille logo being raised to the top of the grille? Maybe the air intake opening on the lower front bumper may hint of the "wing" shape? Stuff like that...
My gut feeling they is they will want to introduce the grille on an all-new vehicle in which it was meant to be from the very start, rather than try to graft it on to a body in which it was never intended. That usually never works from a design standpoint.
Among the worst performers, ailing Mitsubishi reported a 61 percent plunge in sales, Jaguar sales tumbled 38 percent and Volkswagen's sales slumped 30 percent.
I've seen that before. Keep in mind that what we see see as 2007 models, the Japanese see as as 2006 models. So yes, this time next year we will most likely know that the next Impreza looks like, but we won't see it here until *our* MY07.
Bob- Looking at the image between the current and purported future design, if they do go to a look that is shown, it would look like quite a lot of work just to put on hints for the interim.
I agree. I just don't think FHI is going to invest that much money on a huge facelift like that, knowing that the all-new Impreza will be only a year away.
I can see them doing a minor facelift that may introduce some of those new styling cues, but I'd be amazed if we see anything like that for our MY06 Impreza.
I've given this some more thought, and you may be correct in that this new look may indeed debut on the '06 Impreza (and Forester too). Here's my revised thinking:
• The new SOA chief mentioned that the Impreza will receive a facelift next year. That surprised me. I didn't expect that. Minor updates, yes; facelift, no; that surprised me.
• We know the crossover will debut with this look. So why not compliment that model with adaptations of that look to already established models at the same time to reinforce the fact that Subaru is indeed serious about this new look. If three '06 Subies show up with this new look, then the new crossover won't be viewed as just another Subie with oddball styling.
• DRIVE magazine not long ago did a feature article on the new Subaru "Design Language." Why wait two years after that article to reveal what they have in mind? That seems too long a span of time if you ask me.
• The Saab 9-2x shows that with skillful designers the current Impreza platform will respond in a positive manner to a somewhat radical visual overhaul.
• We know that Subaru is concerned that this new look may be too radical for many of their customers. Therefore phasing this look in over two years on the Impreza line may not be such a bad idea afterall.
• My guess is if they do this, many of the body/part stamping dies will carry over onto the (mostly) all-new '07 Impreza models. For example, there's no reason why the headlights, tail lights, and the grill & hood couldn't also work on the all-new '07 model. I just don't see Subaru creating all new part dies, only to use them for one model year. That's VERY expensive!
• If they do this on the Impreza, then the Forester may also get an 'extensive' facelift, which would include the new corporate face. The Forester is scheduled for a facelift for '06 anyway, so why not go all the way? Again, what's triggering my change of thought on all this is the announcement that the Impreza is getting a facelift.
• If this is indeed true, I bet we see either the new Impreza and/or Forester at the upcoming Toyko Motor Show this fall, as the Japanese market will get these cars before we do.
• One final thought: If the Impreza and Forester do ge the new corporate face for MY06, expect the new Legacy and Outback to follow suite within a few years—probably when it's dues for its mid-life facelift around MY07 or MY08.
The Legacy sedan from the rear, while good looking, does look a lot like the Camry—and Taurus too.
There are other issues too. The Impreza and Forester are aging fast (visually). The competition is getting tougher by the day, and their sales are down now, and may continue to head south without some fresh life pumped into them. I think FHI wants to get this new look implemented ASAP.
At least I'm not crazy! I thought everyone would jump on me and say i'm crazy for seeing the camry in the rear end. I was sitting at a light and said "jeez I didn't know they had a legacy with a single exhaust, then I realized it was a camry"
[con't] the more I look at the purported new design, the more I think they'll built off the lines set by the Saab 9-2, headlights inclusive. With our bumper restriction, that "eisel" [sp] won't make it that low - a smaller "eisel" just don't look at all. The hood line may be raised like the 9-2.
I think Subaru played it too safe with the Legacy's styling. No doubt it's good looking and is an evolutionary step from the previous model (which is good), but it's just a bit too timid and blends into the automotive landscape as if it were camouflaged.
I am guessing we will get the "new" Impreza within a few months after JDM does. Since Imprezas are built in Japan (along with Foresters), I would not expect them to produce "new" Imprezas for the JDM market and "old" or "facelifted" Imprezas for the US/CDN markets. At most, they will build up an inventory of the old models for the US market to satisfy demand during the transition.
They could do a staged year-apart rollout of the Legacy because US models are built in the US, separate from the JDM models built in Japan.
Last time there was a staged rollout of the Impreza, the US got them a few months after the JDM. I think FHI sold out the last of the US inventory of the old body style while waiting for the new model. The JDM market started getting the new cars right away.
Wasn't it more than a few months on the new imprezas? Not sure though, but I thought they got the impreza as an '01MY sold in '00 and we got them as an '02MY sold in '01?
At some point, they stopped making the old model (RS coupe) right?? and it was no longer sold in the US while we waited for the 02 WRX to debut in March 01. That's probably the most likely scenario for the next generation.
I am not sure, but I think JDM got the WRX in the fall of 00 as an 01. We got it in the spring of 01 as an 02.
I was referring to the recent facelift of the 04 Impreza -- JDM got the new look in Nov-Dec of 02 if I remember right, while the US market continued to sell the bugeyes (they were no longer being made, it was just inventory). We got the new-look in March 03 as an 04. I remember because I bought my bugeyes in January 03 after seeing what the new cars looked like in Japan!
Ah ha, they had the '01 Coupe and Sedan for a while IIRC. Not postive on the split of the bugeye etc. Either way JDM and EDM and NZDM get their cars before we do when it comes to subies. Even they got the Legacy before us!
the 2001 Impreza RS was in dealerships before the Fall 2001 (yes, it was model year 2001 for JDM and Europe) release of the Bugeye.
it took about 6 months to get it in the US after a January autoshow debut. so there was late summer from there on when the older 2001 was the only thing available in the US but the world new about the next car. MY01 was a very short run of imprezas and MY02 very long. they might do that again, especially since something very similar, but even slower release to North America, has happened with the 2005 legacy / outback!
Is now into its third year. Much of the competition is moving to four year cycles now, which means if Subaru is not moving toward having an all new Forester by 2007, it would not be unreasonable to expect a heavy face lift in 2006.
That Impreza looks OK but it almost seems like it would fit in Mitsubishi's lineup better than Subaru's. Look at the nose/eyes.
GT's lights are a bit Japan Inc (yes, Camry with a slit cut out of it) but the proportions are much better than the too-tall Camry, profile especially. Front end looks more like the previous TL, not the jelly bean Accord.
For future models, here is an excerpt from my posting on the 2005 Legacy board regarding my invitation from Subaru to test drive a 2005 Subaru Wagon GT:
There were several issues that I noticed need to be addressed. I was really amazed at the road noise and wind noise. There seemed to be no improvement in this area over the previous generation Legacy. Approaching 65+mph I noticed a high pitch squeal/roar from the roof area. I could only figure it was from the sunroof or the large luggage rack cross bars. The squeal was so loud I hit the brakes in shock thinking it was either some type of alarm or something had broke.
I also noticed that the side mirrors whistled in the wind. You could only hear this if you rolled the windows down and was going faster than 45mph. The whistling stopped if you pulled the mirror slightly towards you as you drove. This could be easily solved with some cushioned tape (as Nissan did with the same problem on the Quest).
There was also a driveline shudder/miss/stutter when going up a long steady steeping incline at 60mph while the transmission was still in 5th. That was annoying. I know that this is the GT, and it is supposed to be sporty, but, the ride is horrible. I felt like I was riding in a Corvette or Camaro. It was a very stiff ride with lots of feedback.
The leather seats look really nice, are firm and supportive, but, seem like saddle leather in that they are very stiff and hard, not soft and supple.
I'm like my 2003, but at $31k for this model and the problems listed above, I'm more happy with my 2003....
loveautosman: That sounds nothing like my Legacy GT Ltd wagon. It's remarkably quiet on the road and power is smooth and steady. I have heard of some people noticing their side mirrors whistle. It appears to go away by putting a small piece of foam or tape in the seam on the front of the mirror. Mine have been quiet, however.
Bob: The STS is an easily installed option. I personally don't like it so I'm kind of glad they didn't make it standard.
Comments
How 'bout putting the cladding back, unpainted, and including a tow hitch and a tranny cooler, maybe?
-juice
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/x20_tough_package/utility/index.- html
Basically:
-HID lights
-Water resistant seat covers
-Side air bag
-Cargo nets
-Cargo liner
-Leather trim
-New wheels
Ken
Not even skid plates?
-juice
-juice
Bob
Bob
I hope that 2007 wagon is the Grand Forester I've asked for all along. Bigger wagon based on the Liberty (Legacy)?
-juice
Owen
I'm wondering (hoping!) it might be a vehicle that incorporates a rear sliding roof like that found on the GMC XUV and the old Studebaker Wagonaire. Maybe that's how the Outback might evolve?
Bob
Forester is compact, Tribeca will be large. They even go as far as saying it'll be based on the next Legacy platform, so it's mid-size.
So I'll stick to my guns and say Grand Forester, i.e. a bigger 5 seater to slot beneath the Tribeca.
-juice
-mike
exploding new leg/ob sales in Aus
& 19% decline in Aug in the U.S
pricing at 30k & above ?
Like Brazil, Australia is in the southern hemisphere so their summer break happens in December/January. They are in the middle of winter now, not their summer break.
-juice
We will be introducing a totally new 2006 crossover utility vehicle in May which will undoubtedly add incremental sales and profit to your Subaru business. The 2006 Impreza and 2006 Forester will both receive face lifts and our 2.5 liter power trains will also be strengthened. These are just a few of the product enhancements we have planned. My point is, your Subaru product portfolio is the strongest that it has ever been, and it is going to get even stronger.
I wonder if the (base) 2.5 engine will receive a DOHC (again) and variable valve timing? Note: the word 'powertrains' is plural. I wonder if that means all 2.5 engines might be getting timing chains, or some other common upgrade(s) of some sort?
Bob
Craig
So looks like May for the 7 seater.
Can't wait to see the face lifts. Will they get the new "face"?
-juice
I think we will see some *hints* of it though. I bet we'll see stuff like the Subaru oval logo replacing the word "Subaru" on the rear deck. Maybe the grille logo being raised to the top of the grille? Maybe the air intake opening on the lower front bumper may hint of the "wing" shape? Stuff like that...
My gut feeling they is they will want to introduce the grille on an all-new vehicle in which it was meant to be from the very start, rather than try to graft it on to a body in which it was never intended. That usually never works from a design standpoint.
Bob
http://new.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- _id=8552
Among the worst performers, ailing Mitsubishi reported a 61 percent plunge in sales, Jaguar sales tumbled 38 percent and Volkswagen's sales slumped 30 percent.
-Dave
I've seen that before. Keep in mind that what we see see as 2007 models, the Japanese see as as 2006 models. So yes, this time next year we will most likely know that the next Impreza looks like, but we won't see it here until *our* MY07.
Bob
Looking at the image between the current and purported future design, if they do go to a look that is shown, it would look like quite a lot of work just to put on hints for the interim.
-Dave
I can see them doing a minor facelift that may introduce some of those new styling cues, but I'd be amazed if we see anything like that for our MY06 Impreza.
Bob
I've given this some more thought, and you may be correct in that this new look may indeed debut on the '06 Impreza (and Forester too). Here's my revised thinking:
• The new SOA chief mentioned that the Impreza will receive a facelift next year. That surprised me. I didn't expect that. Minor updates, yes; facelift, no; that surprised me.
• We know the crossover will debut with this look. So why not compliment that model with adaptations of that look to already established models at the same time to reinforce the fact that Subaru is indeed serious about this new look. If three '06 Subies show up with this new look, then the new crossover won't be viewed as just another Subie with oddball styling.
• DRIVE magazine not long ago did a feature article on the new Subaru "Design Language." Why wait two years after that article to reveal what they have in mind? That seems too long a span of time if you ask me.
• The Saab 9-2x shows that with skillful designers the current Impreza platform will respond in a positive manner to a somewhat radical visual overhaul.
• We know that Subaru is concerned that this new look may be too radical for many of their customers. Therefore phasing this look in over two years on the Impreza line may not be such a bad idea afterall.
• My guess is if they do this, many of the body/part stamping dies will carry over onto the (mostly) all-new '07 Impreza models. For example, there's no reason why the headlights, tail lights, and the grill & hood couldn't also work on the all-new '07 model. I just don't see Subaru creating all new part dies, only to use them for one model year. That's VERY expensive!
• If they do this on the Impreza, then the Forester may also get an 'extensive' facelift, which would include the new corporate face. The Forester is scheduled for a facelift for '06 anyway, so why not go all the way? Again, what's triggering my change of thought on all this is the announcement that the Impreza is getting a facelift.
• If this is indeed true, I bet we see either the new Impreza and/or Forester at the upcoming Toyko Motor Show this fall, as the Japanese market will get these cars before we do.
• One final thought: If the Impreza and Forester do ge the new corporate face for MY06, expect the new Legacy and Outback to follow suite within a few years—probably when it's dues for its mid-life facelift around MY07 or MY08.
Bob
Anyone else but me notice that the rear lights on the sedan are lifted almost verbatim from the camry? And the nose is very similar to the accord?
-mike
The announcement got me thinking, but Patti's excitement about the MY06 kinda tipped me over
It wouldn't surprise me if the Legacy wears the new corporate design for MY06. Like mike said, the GT has the Accord look.
-Dave
There are other issues too. The Impreza and Forester are aging fast (visually). The competition is getting tougher by the day, and their sales are down now, and may continue to head south without some fresh life pumped into them. I think FHI wants to get this new look implemented ASAP.
Bob
-mike
the more I look at the purported new design, the more I think they'll built off the lines set by the Saab 9-2, headlights inclusive. With our bumper restriction, that "eisel" [sp] won't make it that low - a smaller "eisel" just don't look at all. The hood line may be raised like the 9-2.
-Dave
Bob
Bob
They could do a staged year-apart rollout of the Legacy because US models are built in the US, separate from the JDM models built in Japan.
Last time there was a staged rollout of the Impreza, the US got them a few months after the JDM. I think FHI sold out the last of the US inventory of the old body style while waiting for the new model. The JDM market started getting the new cars right away.
Craig
-mike
I am not sure, but I think JDM got the WRX in the fall of 00 as an 01. We got it in the spring of 01 as an 02.
I was referring to the recent facelift of the 04 Impreza -- JDM got the new look in Nov-Dec of 02 if I remember right, while the US market continued to sell the bugeyes (they were no longer being made, it was just inventory). We got the new-look in March 03 as an 04. I remember because I bought my bugeyes in January 03 after seeing what the new cars looked like in Japan!
Craig
-mike
it took about 6 months to get it in the US after a January autoshow debut. so there was late summer from there on when the older 2001 was the only thing available in the US but the world new about the next car. MY01 was a very short run of imprezas and MY02 very long. they might do that again, especially since something very similar, but even slower release to North America, has happened with the 2005 legacy / outback!
~c
GT's lights are a bit Japan Inc (yes, Camry with a slit cut out of it) but the proportions are much better than the too-tall Camry, profile especially. Front end looks more like the previous TL, not the jelly bean Accord.
-juice
I HATE the new Lancer, though. Notice the EVO never got that ugly nose job.
-juice
There were several issues that I noticed need to be addressed. I was really amazed at the road noise and wind noise. There seemed to be no improvement in this area over the previous generation Legacy.
Approaching 65+mph I noticed a high pitch squeal/roar from the roof area. I could only figure it was from the sunroof or the large luggage rack cross bars. The squeal was so loud I hit the brakes in shock thinking it was either some type of alarm or something had broke.
I also noticed that the side mirrors whistled in the wind. You could only hear this if you rolled the windows down and was going faster than 45mph. The whistling stopped if you pulled the mirror slightly towards you as you drove. This could be easily solved with some cushioned tape (as Nissan did with the same problem on the Quest).
There was also a driveline shudder/miss/stutter when going up a long steady steeping incline at 60mph while the transmission was still in 5th. That was annoying. I know that this is the GT, and it is supposed to be sporty, but, the ride is horrible. I felt like I was riding in a Corvette or Camaro. It was a very stiff ride with lots of feedback.
The leather seats look really nice, are firm and supportive, but, seem like saddle leather in that they are very stiff and hard, not soft and supple.
I'm like my 2003, but at $31k for this model and the problems listed above, I'm more happy with my 2003....
Interestingly, the 6-speed uses about 50% of the STi's parts. One of the items MIA, is the short-throw gear shift.
Bob
Bob: The STS is an easily installed option. I personally don't like it so I'm kind of glad they didn't make it standard.
Ken