Met with a co-worker, a young Asian lady who currently drives an Accord. We got to talking about cars (naturally) and the topic of Nav systems came up.
Interestingly, she didn't view Nav as a premium option, but as a desirable safety feature for a young woman like herself. She thought it should be offered as an accessory even on the Forester X, for instance, sold as a stand-alone option.
She doesn't even work far from where she lives, it's just the comfort of always knowing where you are going, so she could relax, she said. And one with voice commands are essential for her.
Interesting. My wife likes the idea of a Nav system more than I do, also.
Maybe the option will sell to more females than males? Especially if it's offered at a lower price level.
I'd be curious to see how many Mazda3 buyers opt for it, and how the demographics compare to models without it (higher or lower % of females).
I'm going to send her a link to what Garmin has to offer for now, but surely Subaru should survey the market to measure demand. I appear to be in the minority on this one.
I buy that argument. I remember getting a little lost in the backstreets of DC when I was there in '94. Sandra had bagged a military flight and came down to visit for the weekend. She got openly anxious and nervous given DC's reputation as I tried to get back to the streets I knew. Hate to think how she would have felt alone and driving. I see that as one of Nav's big selling points for sure.
Hey juice, we were going to a very popular Mexican restaurant near the Cathedral but basically on the edge of a residential neighbourhood- you know it?
I stand by my original statement that a laptop is more versitile, more informative, and far less expensive. I am happy to report that I can afford to pay the premium for the convience of the in-dash unit...
It differs somewhat from ours, and only comes as a 5-speed manual.
New range-topping 140 mph Forester XT (turbo) manual for ’05 * New 2.5 litre horizontally-opposed engine gives 211 PS and 236 lb.ft torque * Rapid 0-60 mph time of 6.0 seconds * Braked towing limit now 2,000 kg * New 12-spoke alloy wheels * New deeply-sculptured sports front seats * New smaller-diameter MOMO steering wheel with satellite radio controls * Black leather interior standard * New 7-speaker audio system with 6-stacker CD player * Full-time symmetrical all-wheel drive continues * Sporty handling thanks to low centre-of-gravity ‘Boxer’ engine * SUV all-terrain ability and constant 195 mm ground clearance * Extensive equipment includes satellite navigation * On sale in the autumn at £24,695 on-the-road * Paris Motor Show unveiling
Unless I miscalculated, it's rated to tow 4,409.2 lbs!
You may want to look into the portable NAV systems other than the laptop for space savings and flexibilyity. With all the different vehicles you are in, you are the perfect owner!
mike got a promotion, yet FrankenL still doesn't have paint! ;-)
Just ribbin' ya, I like it the way it is.
4400 lbs towing and standard Nav! Sounds like a pretty nice Forester!
The newer Garmins have voice commands, anyone try those? Are they easy to use? I know the screens are small but try pricing 3 new cars with built-in Nav. ;-)
It's slightly off topic, but since we were just talking about nav's here I thought I'd add my experience with my Garmin iQue 3600. I've been using this for the past few months and love it. It's a Palm V-powered PDA with a built in navigation system and it's really, really slick. It uses the same software as Garmin's dedicated nav units (StreetPilot, et al) but is packaged in a PDA. The screen size is the same as the other nav units, although smaller than an OEM in-dash unit, and it provides excellent voice directions. For the money (about $500 at Costco) it's a great alternative to an expensive factory installed unit.
May go with the subaru blue only so we can get some sponsors
So the green clashes with your primary sponsor's blue and orange scheme? Be bold, go orange - except where you can snag wings and bumpers from an RS! Here's an example, a well-known car in Europe translated into an AutoArt model:
We have all blue shirts and suits so we figure blue is a good one to go with as a base. Blue/White although we may throw in some orange to keep the Racingbrake.com folks happy.
Legacy/Outback Sedan +15% Legacy/Outback Wagon -19%
As we expected, Legacy is getting a bigger piece of the pie. Outback used to outsell it 3 to 1, now it might be closer to 2 to 1.
And sedans are hot. Wagons way down.
If you read that like I do, Legacy sedans are selling briskly, but Outback wagons have slowed substantially.
Consider this - both consumer sales shifts are towards the less expensive models. Subaru attempts to move upscale, boosts prices, and customers flock to the cheaper models.
I'm telling you, this whole "upscale" strategy is going to bomb. Inexpensive and built to stay that way. That what Subaru customers have wanted traditionally, and it's still what 2005 Legacy/Outback owners want today.
Yup, partner with SAAB and let them sell the gussied up models. I've been saying this for almost 2 years now. Let SAAB be the Lexus/Acura of Subaru....
What are the odds of being able to retrofit the UK Forerster's smaller-diameter MOMO steering wheel with satellite radio controls on a US model? That would be sweet.
One of those images shows a BMW X5, or a small portion of it. The Tribeca will be about that size. I expect the 3rd-row seat to be about Honda Pilot-sized, be that good or bad.
I'm telling you, this whole "upscale" strategy is going to bomb. Inexpensive and built to stay that way. That what Subaru customers have wanted traditionally, and it's still what 2005 Legacy/Outback owners want today.
I would love to see the results of the Ride and Drive surveys. Sorry Subaru, even though I had a lot of positive comments, I didn't check yes to "premium" and Subaru on any of the questions.
look pretty much like we've seen before. Anyway, although Subaru has been know for quirky styling in the past, I think we can all rest assured that it'll look 100 times better than this! http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?cache=no&ID=2765 Talk about out-Azteking the Aztek! Check out the "foto-show" for more punishment. Not sure how "Stavic" translates but "butt-ugly" comes to mind! On a more serious note, I'm with juice et al re: the upscale strategy....think Subaru is treading in some very dangerous water here. Do people really want (in the Tribeca's case) a vehicle from Subaru that costs more than a Lexus RX330, Volvo XC-90 etc? I mean, they're talking $55,000 to start in Canada. That's 10 grand more than a Pacifica and 20 grand more than a Freestyle. That's just crazy. Check out this link for an informal comparison that wound up pitting a new Legacy wagon against a Mazda6 wagon to see that even now, some people are put off by Subaru's higher price/less value. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/mazda6.htm
I would like to see a break down of the Leg Sedan sales. I bet you they sold more GT than non-GTs and more Limteds than non-Limiteds. I have a feeling that people like the new upscale looks (inside and out)of the new Subs, they don't look silly anymore. Besides where can you go for a 250hp/250ft/lbs AWD seda for under 30K anyways. SHI and SOA can't go back to the way they were with the Leg and Outback. As of now they are just keeping up.
Guys, check out an MDX, it's not any bigger. Perhaps a tiny bit smaller. Outback is about the same length and wheelbase as a Pilot.
And they are wildly popular. The RX330 outsells even the MDX and it's 3rd row is pathetic.
Any how, I can see paying $2000 more than competitors to get the AWD and stick with a Subie, but if we're talking $4000-6000 to get an "upscale" interior and "premium" features then I'm sorta stuck. I don't what that stuff.
I think there is a big market for a premium-like care (performace, handleing, looks, interior, and electronics) without having a luxury name-plate.
I love the GT limted sedan and Outback XT Limted and Bean.
Too bad I gotta wait util the wife gets out of school... Gotta wait maybe 3-4 years... And when she gets a good job, I can get the 50K subie... heheeee... J/K...
try out the 3rd row in something like a XC90 or even some mid sized SUVs, its a joke unless you are a kid or only want to go a few miles with an adult. The Tribeca is probably in the same class.If you really need space for adults in the 3rd row you have to go to full size SUV or minivan.
Pilot is comfortable for kids my daughter's size (she's a big 5 year old).
The Expedition would impress you, the 3rd row is truly inhabitable. But even the Armada is not - you sit with your knees in your chest and head room is limited. OK for short drives only.
In fact I think the Pilot beats the Armada in that area.
XL7 is terrible. 3rd row bench touches the back of the 2nd row, so only double-amputees would fit there. It's also way too narrow. So the funny thing is it seats only 4 adults comfortably, not 7.
But vans kill them, an MPV matches any of those SUVs, and the bigger vans just annihalate them.
I think most people buy/want 3rd rows in SUV's as occasional seating....ferrying kids to birthday parties, games etc.....short trips around town, gramma & grampa in the second row and kids relegated to the back etc. I don't think anyone views 3rd rows as adult-worthy for cross-country trips. Even some minivan 3rd rows are lacking for adults (Freestar comes to mind) and most are only comfortable for 2 (three across between the wheel wells is a tight fit. In fact, except for accessibility, most vans would benefit from a 2/3/2 configuration, as the second row is more suitable for carrying 3 across.
Juice is absolutely correct: "Most 3rd rows are a joke, true."
"In fact I think the Pilot beats the Armada in that area." I agree. If you want to see a true joke of a 3rd row look in the Highlander. I have a 4 month old that would have touble sitting back there. Ofcouse 1) he can sit on his own yet and 2) he is always in an infant seat so it would never happen anyway.
"XL7 is terrible." The Highlander may be worse.
"But vans kill them, an MPV matches any of those SUVs, and the bigger vans just annihalate them." Its why I'm driving the 04 Sienna XLE AWD. If the MPV had an AWD option it woul dhave been my first choice even though its smaller than I would like.
Anyway, I thought the best 3rd row (for vechicles that we looked at) was in the in the Yukon XL Denali.
However, the 04 Sienna trick 3rd row that pre-loaded for easing folding, tilting, and has the 60/40 split is pretty good. It can also hold adults under 6' in decent comfort. Over 6' would require moving up the second row seats to their 1/2 way position to make room for knees.
My 04 Sienna XLE AWD with leather, TC, VSC, the upgraded sound system was under $33k so I did not bother waiting for the Subaru 7 passenger. We need the 3rd row mostly for carting grand parents/ great grand parents around when we go places with the baby. So far we have had no complaints about access or comfort in short trips (under 2 hours). My original plan was to wait for the Subaru 7 passenger because we like out 2k Outback Ltd. and just need something bigger. My hope was that it would be more minivan than SUV for about $30k. But I started hearing rumors of mid-$30k pricing, more of the MDX style, and no details about actually seating 7 seven adults. Its basically why I looked elsewhere.
The split folding feature is something we cannot do without now. When we make our yearly long trips (1000 miles) with the dog and the baby it allows us to fold the 40% down and the dog can still have his own seat. In combination with the flip forward second row its got TONS of room. Its the first time we have had more room than we actually need (want).
Comments
Quantum leap, actually.
-juice
Interestingly, she didn't view Nav as a premium option, but as a desirable safety feature for a young woman like herself. She thought it should be offered as an accessory even on the Forester X, for instance, sold as a stand-alone option.
She doesn't even work far from where she lives, it's just the comfort of always knowing where you are going, so she could relax, she said. And one with voice commands are essential for her.
Interesting. My wife likes the idea of a Nav system more than I do, also.
Maybe the option will sell to more females than males? Especially if it's offered at a lower price level.
I'd be curious to see how many Mazda3 buyers opt for it, and how the demographics compare to models without it (higher or lower % of females).
I'm going to send her a link to what Garmin has to offer for now, but surely Subaru should survey the market to measure demand. I appear to be in the minority on this one.
-juice
Hey juice, we were going to a very popular Mexican restaurant near the Cathedral but basically on the edge of a residential neighbourhood- you know it?
Nicholas
It is quite a site. I can see it from the roof of our building and it's miles away.
I might ask my wife if she wants the Garmin for our Anniversary. I haven't gotten her a really nice gift in a while.
-juice
-mike
-Frank
-mike
It differs somewhat from ours, and only comes as a 5-speed manual.
New range-topping 140 mph Forester XT (turbo) manual for ’05
* New 2.5 litre horizontally-opposed engine gives 211 PS and 236 lb.ft torque
* Rapid 0-60 mph time of 6.0 seconds
* Braked towing limit now 2,000 kg
* New 12-spoke alloy wheels
* New deeply-sculptured sports front seats
* New smaller-diameter MOMO steering wheel with satellite radio controls
* Black leather interior standard
* New 7-speaker audio system with 6-stacker CD player
* Full-time symmetrical all-wheel drive continues
* Sporty handling thanks to low centre-of-gravity ‘Boxer’ engine
* SUV all-terrain ability and constant 195 mm ground clearance
* Extensive equipment includes satellite navigation
* On sale in the autumn at £24,695 on-the-road
* Paris Motor Show unveiling
Unless I miscalculated, it's rated to tow 4,409.2 lbs!
Bob
You may want to look into the portable NAV systems other than the laptop for space savings and flexibilyity. With all the different vehicles you are in, you are the perfect owner!
Mark
-mike
North America needs a sportier package soon!
-Dennis
Nicholas
Just ribbin' ya, I like it the way it is.
4400 lbs towing and standard Nav! Sounds like a pretty nice Forester!
The newer Garmins have voice commands, anyone try those? Are they easy to use? I know the screens are small but try pricing 3 new cars with built-in Nav. ;-)
-juice
-mike
Outside North America, it's unlikely you'll see anything like a Ford Super Duty towing anything.
So yeah, in Europe and other worldly places, cars are often the vehicle of choice to tow with, and Outbacks are among the best of that group.
Bob
Brian
-juice
So the green clashes with your primary sponsor's blue and orange scheme? Be bold, go orange - except where you can snag wings and bumpers from an RS! Here's an example, a well-known car in Europe translated into an AutoArt model:
http://www.modellcentrum.de/bilder/autoart/60091.jpg
Ed (stifling race car graphic design urge)
-mike
Outback -20%
Legacy/Outback Sedan +15%
Legacy/Outback Wagon -19%
As we expected, Legacy is getting a bigger piece of the pie. Outback used to outsell it 3 to 1, now it might be closer to 2 to 1.
And sedans are hot. Wagons way down.
If you read that like I do, Legacy sedans are selling briskly, but Outback wagons have slowed substantially.
Consider this - both consumer sales shifts are towards the less expensive models. Subaru attempts to move upscale, boosts prices, and customers flock to the cheaper models.
I'm telling you, this whole "upscale" strategy is going to bomb. Inexpensive and built to stay that way. That what Subaru customers have wanted traditionally, and it's still what 2005 Legacy/Outback owners want today.
Food for thought.
-juice
-mike
Apparentely the upscale push is from parent FHI.
It'll be an interesting battle between GM and Fuji execs, though. I'm sure GM likes the idea of Saab selling upscale Subies.
I just hope SoA doesn't suffer.
-juice
http://www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-shots-2004/S/subaru/trib- eca_page_4.html
-mike
~c
-mike
-Frank
Don't be surprised if those features show up on our facelifted '06 Forester.
Bob
Bob
-mike
~c
compare the specs of an X5 to the Pilot...
Even the Maximum Seating figure for the X5 is 5 compared to 8 for the Pilot.
-Brian
Bob
I would love to see the results of the Ride and Drive surveys. Sorry Subaru, even though I had a lot of positive comments, I didn't check yes to "premium" and Subaru on any of the questions.
-Dennis
it's a tall wagon for sure.
~c
Long hood = less cabin space for any given overall length.
Bob
http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?cache=no&ID=2765
Talk about out-Azteking the Aztek! Check out the "foto-show" for more punishment. Not sure how "Stavic" translates but "butt-ugly" comes to mind!
On a more serious note, I'm with juice et al re: the upscale strategy....think Subaru is treading in some very dangerous water here. Do people really want (in the Tribeca's case) a vehicle from Subaru that costs more than a Lexus RX330, Volvo XC-90 etc? I mean, they're talking $55,000 to start in Canada. That's 10 grand more than a Pacifica and 20 grand more than a Freestyle. That's just crazy. Check out this link for an informal comparison that wound up pitting a new Legacy wagon against a Mazda6 wagon to see that even now, some people are put off by Subaru's higher price/less value.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/mazda6.htm
-sal
And they are wildly popular. The RX330 outsells even the MDX and it's 3rd row is pathetic.
Any how, I can see paying $2000 more than competitors to get the AWD and stick with a Subie, but if we're talking $4000-6000 to get an "upscale" interior and "premium" features then I'm sorta stuck. I don't what that stuff.
-juice
A base Outback is nearly $25 grand now! With 168hp. That might be the least powerful car to start at such a high price.
To even be in that price league you should have 200hp, minimum.
That's why we see heavy discounting already, on a brand-new model. Even with those discounts Outback sales are off 20%.
It was a miscalculation. The price increase was way too high (for the Outback specifically).
The GT is doing well because it's offering more substance for the money and can easily be compared to near-luxury cars.
Perhaps it is even their timing, not the product, that is off.
-juice
I love the GT limted sedan and Outback XT Limted and Bean.
Too bad I gotta wait util the wife gets out of school... Gotta wait maybe 3-4 years... And when she gets a good job, I can get the 50K subie... heheeee... J/K...
--sal
So my question is, if sales went from 100k in 1995 to nearly 200k a decade later, why a change in strategy? It was working just fine...
Stick to your guns and expand in to new segments.
-juice
Pilot is comfortable for kids my daughter's size (she's a big 5 year old).
The Expedition would impress you, the 3rd row is truly inhabitable. But even the Armada is not - you sit with your knees in your chest and head room is limited. OK for short drives only.
In fact I think the Pilot beats the Armada in that area.
XL7 is terrible. 3rd row bench touches the back of the 2nd row, so only double-amputees would fit there. It's also way too narrow. So the funny thing is it seats only 4 adults comfortably, not 7.
But vans kill them, an MPV matches any of those SUVs, and the bigger vans just annihalate them.
-juice
Still, the middle seat is best left for kids.
Expedition is similar, the 2nd row has 3 individual seats, and those are comfy.
-juice
"Most 3rd rows are a joke, true."
"In fact I think the Pilot beats the Armada in that area."
I agree. If you want to see a true joke of a 3rd row look in the Highlander. I have a 4 month old that would have touble sitting back there. Ofcouse 1) he can sit on his own yet and 2) he is always in an infant seat so it would never happen anyway.
"XL7 is terrible."
The Highlander may be worse.
"But vans kill them, an MPV matches any of those SUVs, and the bigger vans just annihalate them."
Its why I'm driving the 04 Sienna XLE AWD. If the MPV had an AWD option it woul dhave been my first choice even though its smaller than I would like.
Anyway, I thought the best 3rd row (for vechicles that we looked at) was in the in the Yukon XL Denali.
However, the 04 Sienna trick 3rd row that pre-loaded for easing folding, tilting, and has the 60/40 split is pretty good. It can also hold adults under 6' in decent comfort. Over 6' would require moving up the second row seats to their 1/2 way position to make room for knees.
My 04 Sienna XLE AWD with leather, TC, VSC, the upgraded sound system was under $33k so I did not bother waiting for the Subaru 7 passenger. We need the 3rd row mostly for carting grand parents/ great grand parents around when we go places with the baby. So far we have had no complaints about access or comfort in short trips (under 2 hours). My original plan was to wait for the Subaru 7 passenger because we like out 2k Outback Ltd. and just need something bigger. My hope was that it would be more minivan than SUV for about $30k. But I started hearing rumors of mid-$30k pricing, more of the MDX style, and no details about actually seating 7 seven adults. Its basically why I looked elsewhere.
The split folding feature is something we cannot do without now. When we make our yearly long trips (1000 miles) with the dog and the baby it allows us to fold the 40% down and the dog can still have his own seat. In combination with the flip forward second row its got TONS of room. Its the first time we have had more room than we actually need (want).
If Subaru came out with a roadster I think I'd buy that new, and then get a used van to replace the Forester as the family hauler.
I've seen 2002 MPVs used with DVD players for just $17k, a bargain IMO.
-juice
WRX gets STi-like inverted struts!
Bob
The RS got some upgrades, too (RS Pro). So it's across the board.
-juice