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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin, the thread [non-permissible content removed]. ;-)

     

    Oh, sorry, that should have been in the Cafe! LOL

     

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rangnerrangner Member Posts: 336
    No Thread for You!!

    post again...one year!

     

    ;)

     

    Eric
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru R1 may be headed to the UK, if this "4WD for Subaru City Car" article is correct.

     

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/

     

    It would certainly be easy to do, as it's already RHD.

     

    Bob
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I'd love to see the R1 make it to the U.S. The perfect combo for my household would be an R1 for commuting & short errands, and the Tribeca for everything else. Assuming R1 has LATCH in those tiny rear seats to carry a car seat in a pinch. Can anyone think of a safer, more reliable &, dare I say fun, little car with that kind of economy (58MPG) for under $13,000?

    R1's economy would offset the guilt/extra expense from Tribeca.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think if the R1 is to ever come here, it will probably have to prove itself in other markets first. The vehicle is currently only available with RHD, so England would be a natural first step. For to be sold in mainland Europe and here, they would need to develop a LHD version.

     

    Bob
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    How well a car sells in the UK, or even Australia, has little relevance to its US appeal. FHI says the R1's egg shape improves its crash-worthiness. That's great. Why shouldn't FHI be the first to introduce a micro car to the US?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Oh I agree Jon. I'm just saying that the UK is the natural first step in testing the waters outside of Japan, as it too is a RHD market. There's little re-development costs involved, hence little risk.

     

    As we both know FHI is a very cautious corporation, and tends to take "baby steps" with everything they do. Selling in the UK would be in their minds, another baby step. The fact that they're showing it in Geneva I find very interesting. They obviously seem to be thinking beyond the JDM with this car.

     

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It'll be tough on the image, people may not want to shop for a $38,000 Tribeca next to a tiny city car.

     

    Toyota used Scion, maybe they could do something like that?

     

    Note that Scion is not really a truly seperate division, they are Toyota Scions.

     

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Saw my first Nissan X-Trail on the road today. Canadian driver... it had B.C. plates. Sharp looker, and from what I've read, seems like an interesting vehicle. I wonder why Nissan hasn't brought this to the U.S. yet to compete with Forester, when they've already got it for Canada. For a company with such a large vehicle lineup, it's surprising they haven't tried to enter the small (but non-rugged) SUV niche here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They should have brought it a long, long time ago. If you look closely at the specs, the XTrail roughly matches the 1998 Forester. I think it might be too little, too late.

     

    Outlander hasn't succeeded here, you need to stand out a little more.

     

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru may well debut the new Impreza at the Mexican Rally next month.

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101815

    “Subaru has a new car for the next rally in Mexico, and I’m confident it will be one of the biggest steps forward we ever take. I think everyone can expect quite a surprise.”

    The question is: are we talking about mechanicals/running gear only, or will it include the new styling too? Judging by what Solberg says here, it sounds like the new styling may also debut—at least as far as the race car is concerned.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I read about that, too. Wonder if they'll debut the new look? It would certainly be a way to draw more attention to its rally heritage.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    come with VDC, even base cloth-seat models. Makes you wonder if all '06 H-6 Outbacks will also have VDC?

    Bob
  • dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    I hope so. Stability control is fast becoming standard equipment in this price range. I know that Subaru's VDC is only compatible with the VTD AWD system. I wonder if there is any chance that the H4's might come equipped with a different stability control system, at least as an option. Csaba Csere indicated in his February column that the additional cost is only $500.

    It appears that Subaru will need to incorporate stability control into most of its vehicles in the near future to remain competitive. I know that it's something that I'll be looking for on my next car.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Maybe they hurried it up so it was relevant. One has to have serious concerns about WRC's appeal with Pug and Citroen gone after this season, and Mitsu having pulled full sponsorship.

    Nicholas
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From someone over at nabisco:

    The subaru tech school informed our techs that they will have 6 speeds available for the new Forester AND legacy lineup for 2006.

    I'll try and get more details...

    STi versions?!?!?!


    I bet this was the reason, or one of the reasons, there was no new Forester announcement at the Chicago show. If they had announced that, it would have diluted the news as far as the Legacy was concerned. I wonder if the WRX will also get the 6-speed?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - how 'bout all SUBARUS come with VDC?

    Toyota and Honda SUVs all have stability control already, even at lower prices.

    6 speed sounds sweet, though, neither one offers that!

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    6-speed AT or MT?

    If 6MT, I wonder if it is a carry over from the STi.

    Ken
    (Hoping it's not a 6EAT)
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Don't worry, no chance. We just got the 5EAT! :-)

    -Dennis
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Good point. I would be kicking myself had bought the 5MT and learned about a 6MT.

    Ken
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Curiously, the Honda Pilot does not have stability control standard, while the cheaper CRV does. Stability control is standard on EX-L and up, unavailable on the LX and cloth EX. The price of entry for a Pilot with stability then becomes $32,835.

    Don't understand that one, but its something I'd be very happy to point out were I about to sell the Tribeca to someone considering the more basic editions of the Pilot.

    Joe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good catch, Joe. I didn't know that. Perhaps Honda meant by the '06 model year?

    Now that I think about it, I'm not sure the Element gets VSC.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Thanks, boss. And I believe you're right- the Element is sans VSA as well. (I always forget about the Element, for some reason).

    Joe
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Another dealer (from nasioc) reported their techs have been to an '06 "6-speed class."

    No word on which models, however. My guess is the Forester and Legacy/Outback turbos. I doubt non-turbos will get this tranny.

    Now as to a Forester STi... I sense this could be a real possibility. Nothing firm here, just a gut feeling.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    thanks. I was just debating whether i should get an OB XT. I will wait for 2006/2007 to get 6-spd. Do you think we will get 6-spd auto or only manual ?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Manual.

    Bob
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    I see folks talking about safety features at Toyota and Honda, but the perception of Subaru's safety edge is really getting eroded by Kia and Hyundai, both of which are aggressively implementing side curtain airbags and stability control, even in their less expensive models.

    Now don't get me wrong, I still would feel safer in my Forester than an Elantra or Kia Rio, but come on Subaru, don't let yourself get shown up by the budget competition from Korea. There is no excuse for not having side curtain airbags and stability control available, if not standard on every Subaru.

    On the other hand, because Subaru is losing its competitive edge in AWD and safety, as others are matching them or beating them to the punch, maybe that is why they feel they need to go upscale.
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Airbags do not equal safety. There is still no substitute for good engineering. In fact small Kias have received some of the worst crash ratings in recent months...

    Speaking of safety, my wife totalled her brand new 05 Impreza RS this week. She was hit by a car that was spinning out of control. The shock sent her off the road and right smack into a telephone pole. Amazingly, she walked out of it with only minor bruises. Not bad at all for a compact car! We will be buying her another Subie for sure.

    Here's some pics:
    http://www.duford.com/crash1.jpg
    http://www.duford.com/crash2.jpg
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Wow, glad she's ok!!

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The old Sportage had knee air bags but still did poorly in some crash tests, so I'd have to agree.

    The Koreans are putting pressure on everyone, though.

    From Subaru's perspective, they need to decide whether to make VDC standard across the board, or design a cheaper form of stability control for its other AWD systems.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    In my 1993 Sub legacy, in 1997, i was rear ended by Dodge truck. I came out with no injuries & dodge truck had good bit of damage
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My '98 Forester was rear ended by a Saturn that was nearly totalled, and undriveable.

    I drove off, no problem. Dog was in the car and he was OK also (harnessed of course).

    -juice
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    ateixeira wrote:
    From Subaru's perspective, they need to decide whether to make VDC standard across the board, or design a cheaper form of stability control for its other AWD systems.
    Since FHI buys its VDC system from Bosch (see Bosch Feb 10 Press release), it won't be easy to get the price down. But GM also uses the Bosch system in some vehicles, so maybe the price is/could be cheap enough through "GM Alliance" group buying of parts to extend VDC at least to all "tall" Subarus (Forester, Outback, Baja).
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Wow, that was some crash! Glad your wife is OK. I am really impressed with how the car held up.

    Craig
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    glad the wife is ok

    what no pictures of the poor pole?
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Thanks guys, I'm glad she's fine, 15 years ago might have been a very different outcome. Today's cars are so much safer.

    I actually took some pics of the pole with my phone but they didn't turn out. The pole was bent about 20 degrees and threatening to fall on the car. They had to secure it before they could remove the car.

    Sly
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Wow! She's lucky only to come away with a few bruises! No, not bad for a compact car at all!

    Bob
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Sly, so glad your wife is ok! Best wishes to her, Im sure that was a bit traumatic emotionally.. The structural integrity of your Impreza is exactly why crash testing exists.

    Also, I must agree with your statement "Airbags do not equal safety. There is still no substitute for good engineering."

    I would hope Subaru of America takes that to heart, as the Legacy's IIHS side impact is pretty unimpressive considering that the older Accord and Camry (with side curtains) do much better.

    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0411.htm

    Additionally, I would be thrilled if Subaru offered the Impreza with side impact airbags in non-WRX form.

    Overall, I do think the Subaru safety edge is lessening, if not thoroughly lessened already.

    Joe
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Well, here's a picture of the car and the telephone pole. I took it with my phone but with all the excitement, I didn't notice the phone was set for "thumbnails", os it is very small!

    http://www.duford.com/pole.jpg

    Sly
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    Holy cow, Sly! I am glad everyone is all right. Rob M.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    I am glad your wife is OK. I agree that Subarus are well engineered vehicles, and that is why I said I would feel safer in a Subaru as compared to the Korean competition.

    But, my point is that safety has been a big selling point with Subaru, and they will lose that edge if they do not offer all the state of the art equipment, especially when the cheaper competition is moving in that direction.

    The pace of technological change nowdays is staggering. In 2004 I felt that my Forester XT was state of the art in terms of safety, due to the good engineering and side airbags. Today it no longer is, and Subaru needs to keep up.

    And anyone downplaying the value of stability control or side airbags has not done the research. Stability control dramatically helps avoid accidents, and may have helped prevent your wife's.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    wow sly she really nuked that pole. after seeing that picture i am even more impressed on how the car absorbed the energy.

    << thanking everyone involved with subaru that stresses the highest safety. i dont even even consider a vehicle, nor do i recommend a vehicle until the fed gov and iihs do their tests( if you are listening car manufactures ) and give it the iihs good or fed gov 5 star ( front and side ).
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Wow Sly, after looking at those pics I am glad she is okay, says a lot about the integrity of our Subies, Where in Canada are you?

    Cheers Pat.
  • dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    Do all manufacturers purchase their ESC systems from Bosch? I was under the impression that only Subaru's VTD AWD systems were compatible with VDC. Not true?

    It seems that if Toyota and Honda are putting ESC on their competing models (let alone Hyundai) that Subaru needs to do likewise.

    My sister just purchased a RAV4 with ESC (is this the same system from Bosch that Subaru sells as VDC?) and side-curtain airbags. It has basically all the same standard equipment except maybe heated seats as a Forester XS and was similarly priced.
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    We live about 40 minutes north of Ottawa, in the Gatineau hills. The accident happened in the town of Cantley.

    Sly
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Gatineau... an OHL team... you guys have some seriously good hockey in that area. I live in a WHL city. :) Nothin' like hockey & Subarus. Pretty much a guarantee to see a Subaru logo under the ice at the few rinks around here. Just one more good reason to go to a game. And one more good reason to drive a Roo.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    Subarus VDC is different from most other Electronic Stability Controls as it also allows power to be sent to whatever wheel will help stop your skid while all the others only stop power going to a wheel by using the brakes or cutting engine power. Bosch may supply Subaru with the yaw sensors etc but the unique part of Subarus VDC may be seperate from the Bosch sourced "ESC".
    This unique feature is why the VDC can only come with auto tranny VTD AWD systems in the Subaru lineup.
    Subaru needs to develop or buy from an outside source a stand alone ESC which can be used on non VTD systems and manual trannies.
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