Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ateixeira · February 2005

Colin, the thread [non-permissible content removed]. ;-)

Oh, sorry, that should have been in the Cafe! LOL

-juice

njswamplands · February 2005

rangner · February 2005

No Thread for You!!

post again...one year!

Eric

njswamplands · February 2005

rsholland · February 2005

Subaru R1 may be headed to the UK, if this "4WD for Subaru City Car" article is correct.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/

It would certainly be easy to do, as it's already RHD.

Bob

jeffmc · February 2005

I'd love to see the R1 make it to the U.S. The perfect combo for my household would be an R1 for commuting & short errands, and the Tribeca for everything else. Assuming R1 has LATCH in those tiny rear seats to carry a car seat in a pinch. Can anyone think of a safer, more reliable &, dare I say fun, little car with that kind of economy (58MPG) for under $13,000?

R1's economy would offset the guilt/extra expense from Tribeca.

rsholland · February 2005

I think if the R1 is to ever come here, it will probably have to prove itself in other markets first. The vehicle is currently only available with RHD, so England would be a natural first step. For to be sold in mainland Europe and here, they would need to develop a LHD version.

Bob

jon_in_ct · February 2005

How well a car sells in the UK, or even Australia, has little relevance to its US appeal. FHI says the R1's egg shape improves its crash-worthiness. That's great. Why shouldn't FHI be the first to introduce a micro car to the US?

rsholland · February 2005

Oh I agree Jon. I'm just saying that the UK is the natural first step in testing the waters outside of Japan, as it too is a RHD market. There's little re-development costs involved, hence little risk.

As we both know FHI is a very cautious corporation, and tends to take "baby steps" with everything they do. Selling in the UK would be in their minds, another baby step. The fact that they're showing it in Geneva I find very interesting. They obviously seem to be thinking beyond the JDM with this car.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2005

It'll be tough on the image, people may not want to shop for a $38,000 Tribeca next to a tiny city car.

Toyota used Scion, maybe they could do something like that?

Note that Scion is not really a truly seperate division, they are Toyota Scions.

-juice

jeffmc · February 2005

Saw my first Nissan X-Trail on the road today. Canadian driver... it had B.C. plates. Sharp looker, and from what I've read, seems like an interesting vehicle. I wonder why Nissan hasn't brought this to the U.S. yet to compete with Forester, when they've already got it for Canada. For a company with such a large vehicle lineup, it's surprising they haven't tried to enter the small (but non-rugged) SUV niche here.

ateixeira · February 2005

They should have brought it a long, long time ago. If you look closely at the specs, the XTrail roughly matches the 1998 Forester. I think it might be too little, too late.

Outlander hasn't succeeded here, you need to stand out a little more.

-juice

sweet_subie · February 2005

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/futuremodel.aspx?familyid=1131

rsholland · February 2005

Subaru may well debut the new Impreza at the Mexican Rally next month.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101815

Subaru has a new car for the next rally in Mexico, and Im confident it will be one of the biggest steps forward we ever take. I think everyone can expect quite a surprise.

The question is: are we talking about mechanicals/running gear only, or will it include the new styling too? Judging by what Solberg says here, it sounds like the new styling may also debutat least as far as the race car is concerned.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2005

I read about that, too. Wonder if they'll debut the new look? It would certainly be a way to draw more attention to its rally heritage.

-juice

rsholland · February 2005

come with VDC, even base cloth-seat models. Makes you wonder if all '06 H-6 Outbacks will also have VDC?

Bob

dcab · February 2005

I hope so. Stability control is fast becoming standard equipment in this price range. I know that Subaru's VDC is only compatible with the VTD AWD system. I wonder if there is any chance that the H4's might come equipped with a different stability control system, at least as an option. Csaba Csere indicated in his February column that the additional cost is only $500.

It appears that Subaru will need to incorporate stability control into most of its vehicles in the near future to remain competitive. I know that it's something that I'll be looking for on my next car.

volkov · February 2005

Maybe they hurried it up so it was relevant. One has to have serious concerns about WRC's appeal with Pug and Citroen gone after this season, and Mitsu having pulled full sponsorship.

Nicholas

rsholland · February 2005

From someone over at nabisco:

The subaru tech school informed our techs that they will have 6 speeds available for the new Forester AND legacy lineup for 2006.

I'll try and get more details...

STi versions?!?!?!

I bet this was the reason, or one of the reasons, there was no new Forester announcement at the Chicago show. If they had announced that, it would have diluted the news as far as the Legacy was concerned. I wonder if the WRX will also get the 6-speed?

Bob

ateixeira · February 2005

Bob - how 'bout all SUBARUS come with VDC?

Toyota and Honda SUVs all have stability control already, even at lower prices.

6 speed sounds sweet, though, neither one offers that!

-juice

kens · February 2005

6-speed AT or MT?

If 6MT, I wonder if it is a carry over from the STi.

Ken
(Hoping it's not a 6EAT)

bluesubie · February 2005

Don't worry, no chance. We just got the 5EAT! :-)

-Dennis

kens · February 2005

Good point. I would be kicking myself had bought the 5MT and learned about a 6MT.

Ken

alpha01 · February 2005

Curiously, the Honda Pilot does not have stability control standard, while the cheaper CRV does. Stability control is standard on EX-L and up, unavailable on the LX and cloth EX. The price of entry for a Pilot with stability then becomes $32,835.

Don't understand that one, but its something I'd be very happy to point out were I about to sell the Tribeca to someone considering the more basic editions of the Pilot.

Joe

ateixeira · February 2005

Good catch, Joe. I didn't know that. Perhaps Honda meant by the '06 model year?

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure the Element gets VSC.

-juice

alpha01 · February 2005

Thanks, boss. And I believe you're right- the Element is sans VSA as well. (I always forget about the Element, for some reason).

Joe

rsholland · February 2005

Another dealer (from nasioc) reported their techs have been to an '06 "6-speed class."

No word on which models, however. My guess is the Forester and Legacy/Outback turbos. I doubt non-turbos will get this tranny.

Now as to a Forester STi... I sense this could be a real possibility. Nothing firm here, just a gut feeling.

Bob

sweet_subie · February 2005

thanks. I was just debating whether i should get an OB XT. I will wait for 2006/2007 to get 6-spd. Do you think we will get 6-spd auto or only manual ?

rsholland · February 2005

Manual.

Bob

atlgaxt · February 2005

I see folks talking about safety features at Toyota and Honda, but the perception of Subaru's safety edge is really getting eroded by Kia and Hyundai, both of which are aggressively implementing side curtain airbags and stability control, even in their less expensive models.

Now don't get me wrong, I still would feel safer in my Forester than an Elantra or Kia Rio, but come on Subaru, don't let yourself get shown up by the budget competition from Korea. There is no excuse for not having side curtain airbags and stability control available, if not standard on every Subaru.

On the other hand, because Subaru is losing its competitive edge in AWD and safety, as others are matching them or beating them to the punch, maybe that is why they feel they need to go upscale.

sduford · February 2005

Airbags do not equal safety. There is still no substitute for good engineering. In fact small Kias have received some of the worst crash ratings in recent months...

Speaking of safety, my wife totalled her brand new 05 Impreza RS this week. She was hit by a car that was spinning out of control. The shock sent her off the road and right smack into a telephone pole. Amazingly, she walked out of it with only minor bruises. Not bad at all for a compact car! We will be buying her another Subie for sure.

Here's some pics:
http://www.duford.com/crash1.jpg
http://www.duford.com/crash2.jpg

bluesubie · February 2005

Wow, glad she's ok!!

-Dennis

ateixeira · February 2005

The old Sportage had knee air bags but still did poorly in some crash tests, so I'd have to agree.

The Koreans are putting pressure on everyone, though.

From Subaru's perspective, they need to decide whether to make VDC standard across the board, or design a cheaper form of stability control for its other AWD systems.

-juice

sweet_subie · February 2005

In my 1993 Sub legacy, in 1997, i was rear ended by Dodge truck. I came out with no injuries & dodge truck had good bit of damage

ateixeira · February 2005

My '98 Forester was rear ended by a Saturn that was nearly totalled, and undriveable.

I drove off, no problem. Dog was in the car and he was OK also (harnessed of course).

-juice

jon_in_ct · February 2005

ateixeira wrote:

From Subaru's perspective, they need to decide whether to make VDC standard across the board, or design a cheaper form of stability control for its other AWD systems.

Since FHI buys its VDC system from Bosch (see Bosch Feb 10 Press release), it won't be easy to get the price down. But GM also uses the Bosch system in some vehicles, so maybe the price is/could be cheap enough through "GM Alliance" group buying of parts to extend VDC at least to all "tall" Subarus (Forester, Outback, Baja).

c_hunter · February 2005

Wow, that was some crash! Glad your wife is OK. I am really impressed with how the car held up.

Craig

njswamplands · February 2005

glad the wife is ok

what no pictures of the poor pole?

sduford · February 2005

Thanks guys, I'm glad she's fine, 15 years ago might have been a very different outcome. Today's cars are so much safer.

I actually took some pics of the pole with my phone but they didn't turn out. The pole was bent about 20 degrees and threatening to fall on the car. They had to secure it before they could remove the car.

Sly

rsholland · February 2005

Wow! She's lucky only to come away with a few bruises! No, not bad for a compact car at all!

Bob

alpha01 · February 2005

Sly, so glad your wife is ok! Best wishes to her, Im sure that was a bit traumatic emotionally.. The structural integrity of your Impreza is exactly why crash testing exists.

Also, I must agree with your statement "Airbags do not equal safety. There is still no substitute for good engineering."

I would hope Subaru of America takes that to heart, as the Legacy's IIHS side impact is pretty unimpressive considering that the older Accord and Camry (with side curtains) do much better.

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0411.htm

Additionally, I would be thrilled if Subaru offered the Impreza with side impact airbags in non-WRX form.

Overall, I do think the Subaru safety edge is lessening, if not thoroughly lessened already.

Joe

sduford · February 2005

Well, here's a picture of the car and the telephone pole. I took it with my phone but with all the excitement, I didn't notice the phone was set for "thumbnails", os it is very small!

http://www.duford.com/pole.jpg

Sly

rob_m · February 2005

Holy cow, Sly! I am glad everyone is all right. Rob M.

atlgaxt · February 2005

I am glad your wife is OK. I agree that Subarus are well engineered vehicles, and that is why I said I would feel safer in a Subaru as compared to the Korean competition.

But, my point is that safety has been a big selling point with Subaru, and they will lose that edge if they do not offer all the state of the art equipment, especially when the cheaper competition is moving in that direction.

The pace of technological change nowdays is staggering. In 2004 I felt that my Forester XT was state of the art in terms of safety, due to the good engineering and side airbags. Today it no longer is, and Subaru needs to keep up.

And anyone downplaying the value of stability control or side airbags has not done the research. Stability control dramatically helps avoid accidents, and may have helped prevent your wife's.

njswamplands · February 2005

wow sly she really nuked that pole. after seeing that picture i am even more impressed on how the car absorbed the energy.

<< thanking everyone involved with subaru that stresses the highest safety. i dont even even consider a vehicle, nor do i recommend a vehicle until the fed gov and iihs do their tests( if you are listening car manufactures ) and give it the iihs good or fed gov 5 star ( front and side ).

hondafriek · February 2005

Wow Sly, after looking at those pics I am glad she is okay, says a lot about the integrity of our Subies, Where in Canada are you?

Cheers Pat.

dcab · February 2005

Do all manufacturers purchase their ESC systems from Bosch? I was under the impression that only Subaru's VTD AWD systems were compatible with VDC. Not true?

It seems that if Toyota and Honda are putting ESC on their competing models (let alone Hyundai) that Subaru needs to do likewise.

My sister just purchased a RAV4 with ESC (is this the same system from Bosch that Subaru sells as VDC?) and side-curtain airbags. It has basically all the same standard equipment except maybe heated seats as a Forester XS and was similarly priced.

sduford · February 2005

We live about 40 minutes north of Ottawa, in the Gatineau hills. The accident happened in the town of Cantley.

Sly

jeffmc · February 2005

Gatineau... an OHL team... you guys have some seriously good hockey in that area. I live in a WHL city.

Nothin' like hockey & Subarus. Pretty much a guarantee to see a Subaru logo under the ice at the few rinks around here. Just one more good reason to go to a game. And one more good reason to drive a Roo.

cptplt · February 2005

Subarus VDC is different from most other Electronic Stability Controls as it also allows power to be sent to whatever wheel will help stop your skid while all the others only stop power going to a wheel by using the brakes or cutting engine power. Bosch may supply Subaru with the yaw sensors etc but the unique part of Subarus VDC may be seperate from the Bosch sourced "ESC".
This unique feature is why the VDC can only come with auto tranny VTD AWD systems in the Subaru lineup.
Subaru needs to develop or buy from an outside source a stand alone ESC which can be used on non VTD systems and manual trannies.

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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