Subaru Crew - Future Models II

kens · February 2005

This unique feature is why the VDC can only come with auto tranny VTD AWD systems in the Subaru lineup.

Actually, not true anymore. The 3.0R Spec B introduced in Japan uses a 6MT with VDC.

Ken

kens · February 2005

Over at LegacyGT.com a fellow who works for Subaru also mentioned that he has heard about the 6MT coming. He speculates that it will be the Legacy 3.0R (H6) and a Forester STi.

Ken

hondafriek · February 2005

Sly I live right in Ottawa. Used to work with a guy that lived in Cantley.

Cheers Pat.

bluesubie · February 2005

Oh no! Don't do this to me!

-Dennis

bluesubie · February 2005

I noticed that there is no STi edition of the facelifted Forester on Subaru Japan's web site.
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/index.html

Is it a crazy idea that they would debut the facelifted F-STi at the NY Auto Show?! The suspense is killing me! :-)

I want those seats!

-Dennis

locke2c · February 2005

What... tempted?

Frankly when comparing the Evo and STi I found the 6 speed to be hardly compelling. It's just not that big of a deal when you have 4 well-spaced gears and a 5th gear that, true, is a bit of a jump but well chosen for highway cruising. Plus the car will hit the rev limiter in 5th at 157mph.

And there's also that 6 speeds are a bit annoying, honestly, when you have a lot of power.

But in the case of Subaru, I'd much rather have the beefy 6 speed than the 'glassbox' 5 speed. Mitsu's 5 speed is way tougher-- abuse/hard use will fry the transfer case first (several times before tranny issues arise) whereas 5 speed turbo Subarus driven reasonably encounter transmission issues not that infrequently.

~Colin

rsholland · February 2005

according to this site, the B9 Tribeca and R1 are "production" debuts for Europe. Go to Geneva preview link.

http://www.cardesignnews.com

It was reported earlier that these cars were to be shown at Geneva, but there was no mention of selling the cars there. Testing the waters? For sure; but there was no mention of actually selling the cars there. So this listing is a first. I hope it's correct.

Bob

cptplt · February 2005

halellujah!!

ateixeira · February 2005

I agree with what was mentioned above, Subaru needs to license and 2nd system that works with their other AWD models just to keep up.

I read that stability control actually reduces accidents more than ABS ever did, and by far. The study I heard about showed that ABS didn't really reduce the frequency of collisions, but stability control did, and by a large margin, something like 50%!

VDC is an excellent example, perhaps too expensive for a basic Forester or Impreza, but if so they need a Plan B and soon.

Forester STi? That'd be so silly I'd just have to own one. ;-)

-juice

dcab · February 2005

Any idea when we'll know whether 2006 Outbacks will have some version of stability control?

The studies you're referring to by the NHTSA and the IIHS. Csaba Csere writes about them in his February column in Car and Driver, in which he describes stability contol as "the greatest advance in safety since seatbelts."

Our morning paper describes a fatality in which a woman lost control of her 2005 Nissan Altima on a snow covered road and was struck on her driver's side by a Jeep. With side curtain airbags, she might have survived and with stability control she might have never lost control of her car. Probably ESC is a couple of years away on mid-priced sedans like the Altima, but is becoming fairly common on taller vehicles.

I really hope that Subaru is going to add a stability control system to the 2006 Outback as I'm looking to replace my 97 Outback this summer.

ateixeira · February 2005

taller vehicles - sounds like most Subies, no?

-juice

dcab · February 2005

Exactly!

I hate to say it, but if Subaru doesn't offer ESC on 2006 Outbacks under 34K MSRP, I'll probably look real hard at Toyota and Honda. And this coming from someone who my brother-in-law calls "Subaru's #1 fan." (Of course, he's never met you guys...I think at least a few of you may have me beat!;))

Any idea when details about the 06 Outbacks may leak out? I thought somebody posted here that they may debut at the NY Auto Show (late April?)
If Subaru doesn't offer ESC, I'll probably use the SubaruBucks that I have for an Added Security warranty and service for my wife's Forester, and look for a non-Subaru product for our family hauler (it hurts to even type that...)

sweet_subie · February 2005

get yourself a 1-yr old VDC OB.

I agree it is annoying. subaru is holiding off on Nav & VDC, just make people buy the Tribeca.
It is as simple as that.

Same what toyota & honda did for a while to make people buy RX & MDX.

ateixeira · February 2005

That's true - Honda made you go to an MDX even to get a moonroof.

That may be the issue with having a premium brand - it limits what how high your regular brand can go.

-juice

robr2 · February 2005

But it gives them something to add on the next redesign. The next Pilot comes out this fall IIRC - I bet there will be a sunroof option.

rsholland · February 2005

Styling still retains current look.

http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/news/news050001.html

Bob

cptplt · February 2005

tell them we want VDC(or some ESC)

VW charge just several hundred for ESC as an option

sweet_subie · February 2005

i think we should. I just did.
Can you each one of you report to this forum that you requested SoA for VDC as option ?

sweet_subie · February 2005

Dear SoA:

SoA needs to seriously think about making VDC or some sort of Elect. stability control as an option on all of its vehicles.

It is annoying to see only in OB VDC & Tribeca. I understand SoA wants to us to buy high-end product if we need VDC, but Subaru is losing out with competition. For E.g even my 22k Mazda MPV has some stability control. In Subaru, you need to spend more than 34k to get one. This will lure several buyers away from Subaru to other that offer as a $500 option.

rsholland · February 2005

you might see more VDC-equipped models for '06. Just a gut feeling, nothing more...

Bob

rsholland · February 2005

http://www.swrt.com/74331.html

lark6 · February 2005

I've been amazed at the number of people on the various Subaru forums who were trying to equate the introduction of a new season's race car as corrsponding to the rollout of a new street version of the same car. Very seldom does that happen; usually it's the new street car that comes first.

Ed

rsholland · February 2005

I agree Ed.

Bob

ateixeira · February 2005

The low-buck Scion xB has stability control standard. And you can get it as an option on the Focus. I believe even the Kia Sportage has it standard now.

-juice

volkov · February 2005

funny that the specs list max bhp as 300. The stock JDM STi with the EJ20 turns out about 280 iirc.

dcab · February 2005

I emailed them last week. I don't see how Subaru can continue to emphasize their cars having a safety edge over the competition (which they do constantly in their radio ads around here) without offering ESC across their product line. We'll see...

sduford · March 2005

They should also provide better tires. The RE-92 has awful braking performance in the rain. That is NOT SAFE!

Sly

bluesubie · March 2005

IMO, the key words should be stand alone option .

Don't force customers take unwanted options to get VDC and, OTOH, don't force customers to get VDC that want another option (and must take the VDC to get the other option).

-Dennis

sweet_subie · March 2005

Does anyone know anything about 2006 ? forester will get an updated exterior. I am seriously interested in shopping for OB XT now but would be most disappointed to see if it comes with VDC for 2006.

I think they will delay VDC for 2 more years since they will force buyers to buy tribeca for that

atlgaxt · March 2005

Updated Forester.

1. No turbo, but vvt, variable induction, and maybe get some help from their cousin Isuzu to get direct injection.

2. 6 speed manual or 5 speed auto. Get rid of the stupid rule that you have to get the auto to get leather and sunroof.

3. Stability Control and side curtain airbags.

190 - 200 hp and 190 to 200 lb ft of torque on regular fuel, mid 20s on the EPA city cycle, low 30s on the highway cycle. 0-60 in the low to upper 7s, depending upon stick or auto. Class leading safety.

Come on Subaru. You have the capability.

sweet_subie · March 2005

MSN carpoint allows you to compare new models against old models. useful for me to see OB XT vs my 01 OB

http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/default.aspx?&c=0&n=3&i=0&t- b=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=1&v=t99042&v=t92813&v=t1920

ateixeira · March 2005

Nice little list of upgrades, I hope they can offer half of those!

-juice

c_hunter · March 2005

I would like that too!!

Actually, if they offered a 180-190HP engine + 5EAT with good gas mileage in the base Outback or the Forester, I would probably step down from my Outback XT next time around. VDC would seal the deal.

Craig

sweet_subie · March 2005

1.
I think SoA is doing this on purpose. How can HP & Torque be same on base models after Variable valve timing ? but they are at same levels

2.
They make this purposefully slow, so people will spend extra bucks to step up to XT or H6.

3.
Same reason for offering VDC only on high-end model.

4.
Notice that they quietly dropped the H6 with no leather moonroof etc. which they had for 03 & 04. They will introduce this again when sales slow down

atlgaxt · March 2005

That is the beauty of vvt, variable or two stage intake, or direct injection. All of these features can be used to broaden the powerband, increasing torque and increasing horsepower.

sweet_subie · March 2005

http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/2005gen/exhibition.html

ateixeira · March 2005

Craig: quiet, we don't want them to hear that, or they might not do it! ;-)

Any how, the turbos are great for those seeking performance, but the bottom line is most shoppers will buy the N/A engine, so it deserves attention.

-juice

rsholland · March 2005

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/a- e_news_story.php?id=54700

The broken link issue remains... Please delete the "- " in this link when pasting.

Bob

ateixeira · March 2005

Bob - I will e-mail you a better way of posting links, basically you can use your own title.

You've got mail.

-juice

locke2c · March 2005

tinyurl.com ?

~c

ateixeira · March 2005

Smaller than this?

-juice

rsholland · March 2005

Some dealer over at nabisco, managed to tap into some '06 vehicle codes on their SOA vehicle locator web site, and found new codes for 2 new premium (above what's currently available) Legacys. One code said 6-speed!

http://www.wrxhackers.com/6speedproof.jpg

He also posted the following:

Correction: There are 3 new model codes. They don't have them listed as 6 speeds but..... I have a feeling

6AK and 6AL <-- two new legacy model codes for 06... The previous models ended at 5AI and 5AJ (The legacy GT LTD's....)

Anything higher in the lettering scheme = more expensive.

So.. there will be 2 legacy's at least with MSRP's over 30k... STI?</I>

Bob

ateixeira · March 2005

Could meant the H6 Spec B is coming, if you read it another way.

Sorry to add to the speculation, but it could be a tranny or a new engine. Or both!

-juice

jon_in_ct · March 2005

The screenshot of the "5CB -Sedan 6SPD" model does suggests a Spec B Legacy. However, the "3 new model codes" may merely indicate the presence of the Subaru navigation system. It's my understanding that the Subaru NAV system is a factory-only option (i.e. it can't be installed at the port of entry or by a dealer). If true, that means any car with a NAV needs a different order code than one without (and would be more expensive).

rsholland · March 2005

That's what I was thinking too Jon. As you know, in Europe those are specific models, with an "n" after the name, such as "Legacy 3.0Rn."

Also, while 6-speed is mentioned in the screen shot, that doesn't necessarily mean "Spec B," or as what we know as the Spec B. It could mean nothing more than the current GT is now getting a 6-speed. Then again, ...

Bob

locke2c · March 2005

then again, a Spec B for the USDM will probably be just a six speed manual and different suspension.

~c

ateixeira · March 2005

I'd be surprised if it's not the Spec B.

They're bringing a Spec B to the US for the press fleet, for testing. I wanna drive that bad boy!

-juice

rsholland · March 2005

Could be the H-6 w/6-speed, minus the Spec B trick suspension?

Bob

rob_m · March 2005

plop!

Rob M. who is shopping for a GT LTD just went back on the fence.

sweet_subie · March 2005

i can't make my buying decision with these new models, rumors etc

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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