I expect all of Subaru's US 2006 models to be in dealer showrooms this summer. Is there any event (other than the NY Auto Show), scheduled between now and summer, which attracts the attention of a significant portion the US automotive press?
I bet the WRX and Legacy GT/Outback XT share the same engine. The WRX is their "mainstream" performance" model, so it should have a performance edge over the more luxury oriented Legacy/Outback models.
What surprises you about the Baja? That it remains? I'm not surprised, as they said some time ago that there would be an '06 Baja. Beyond '06, that's the question mark...
The fact that the N/A Baja has an "x" in that second column suggests to me that the Baja is getting little or no upgrades for '06. I mean why would the Baja not get the same upgraded N/A engine that all other '06 N/A Subies get?
If that's true, that indeed suggests to me that the Baja's days are numbered. If Subaru is going to continue with a next-generation Baja for '07, you'd think we would be seeing some minor upgrades for the '06 model—especially the 2.5 N/A engine upgrade.
The Baja gets by far more more attention than any other Subie, in terms of its lack of sales. What about the Outback sedan? Or Impreza RS wagon? Or even the STi? None of those are volume sellers.
A case for the STi can be made as it's a "halo" car for the Subaru brand, as it draws people into the showroom. So what about the other Subie sales cellar dwellers (or is that "seller" dwellers?)?
FWIW, I see far more Bajas on the road than I do Outback sedans or RS wagons.
That would be a very nice improvement. I wonder if Subaru is also going to drop in the same long block used in the STi/XT/GT/FXT into the WRX?
I wonder which intercooler and turbo will be used with the 2.5 WRX? I also wonder what the actual/rated output will be.
There's an interesting discussion over at Nabisco regarding what the '06 WRX output should be. Many current owners say it "should be" greater than the GT/OBXT. They seem to forget that on a worldwide basis, the WRX is Subaru's entry level turbo vehicle.
...the Baja. In MA, it's on the High Theft Vehicle List so comprehensive insurance is higher. I guess since 1 of the 6 sold must have been stolen and that qualifies it.
"Remember, Patti said the Outback sedan sells well in Canada. Not the US, but Canada demand might pick up the slack. "
I don't think so, we don't even HAVE the Outback Sedan here in Canada, and I have never seen one. There is a rumour that they will start selling it for 06, but it is not available at this moment.
Oh they are around Sly, I have seen several around Ottawa, some in the 2000 to 2005 Series and a few in the Series before that. There is a couple of them around the Perth Area also.
Sly: you sure they don't sell in Canada, or are they just not common?
I doubt it costs much (if anything) to keep an Outback sedan around because it share body panels with other Legacys.
Baja shares sheet metal with nothing - that generation Legacy was discontinued.
For the last generation, 93% were wagons, 7% sedans, but that's total Legacy and Outback. Now they actually build more sedans than before, especially Leg GT models.
So I bet there are far more sedans (both kinds) vs. Bajas. On top of that they share front door and front panels with the wagons, too.
If the Ridgeline and the Tribeca do well I could see Subaru doing a Tribaja. The basic architecture is done - it would just need modifications.
Other manufacturers are watching the Ridgeline closely as well. When Honda shows a "Concept" they typically are 80% there. Since the SUT concept was shown in Detroit 2004, others have been aware for over a year.
I think a lot of people will be watching the Ridgeline closely.
But remember, they modified the frame substantially, I don't think it would be as simple as slapping a bed on a Tribeca. Not if they want to compete seriously.
You're right about that. The Ridgeline is substantially modified & beefed up from the Pilot. So for Subaru to do a Tribaja (properly), they would have to do the same.
I hope they do that. I think Subaru will miss a HUGE opportunity if they give up on pickups.
I agree that it would be a Baja style modification (take a car platform and put on some sheet metal etc.) but the only "flaw" that could not be immediately corrected would be the payload. And, I think that payload is less of an issue compared to the other immediate improvements.
I for one would jump all over it even if it only had 1,000 lbs payload and 3,000 lb towing. Those are much less important than a good AWD system, car-like ride, reliability, etc. all things that Subaru excels at. With the bed feature (and maybe a new nose and front profile) I think it would likely do well.
Unless Subaru can build a better Ridgeline, I'd say build a new Baja off the updated Outback—but address as many of the "issues" as possible.
Is that a perfect solution? No, but it will keep their foot in the pickup door, if only barely. I say Subaru is better off having a Baja, than not having one. They just need to find a way to make it more appealing to more people. I think having a (roll-top-like retractable) locking hard bed cover as standard on all models would go a long way towards that end.
Just a brief note (and I don't see it reported in the Forester topics) that the current Car&Driver has a small sidebar re the '06 Forester styling changes. Of greater note is C&D's further reporting that an all-new Forester featuring the Zapatinas/Tribeca snout will appear for '07.
Tell me, does Subaru have to pay liscensing fees to Alpha Romeo for stealing their front grille? Zapatinas sholuld have done the front end design for free, seeing as it's just a bad copy of old work.
Wonder if the OB sedan is worth another try here with some focused marketing, maybe to the older generation. In an increasingly saturated crossover market, it's at least a little "different". Could snag sales from the Ford 500, which touts it's height and ease of access as a selling feature. Maybe a cheaper N/A 4, or H6 that takes 87 octane, would sell better, priced below the corresponding wagon....
One other Canadian difference, the WRX STi is priced at $46,000. Don't get me started on how we get shafted on price.
Did Subaru steal the Alfa front grille (actually it's upside down if that's how you view it), or did Zapatinas bring his ideas and style with him to Subaru when he moved?
I think it's the latter.
But I don't mind one bit that we see a resemblance to gorgeous cars like the Alfa 156. Not one bit!
Did Subaru steal the Alfa front grille (actually it's upside down if that's how you view it), or did Zapatinas bring his ideas and style with him to Subaru when he moved?
Hasn't the Alfa grill been around forever? Did Zapatinas design it or just enhance it over the years?
If you look back Alfa often just had a small triangle (pointing down) in the front grille or bumper. Some of Zapatinas' designs pushed the envelope a bit and made the triangle the car's entire face.
So he didn't invent it, but he highlighted it.
Ironically, it is Subaru's triangle that points upward, looking like an A for Alfa. Alfas get a V shape.
Yes, I see Alfa influence, but I also see Jag S-Type, BMW, Bugatti, Studebaker Golden/Silver Hawk (which was inspired by MD grilles of that era). Need I go on?
Why everyone have just focused only on Alfa Romeo is beyond me...
I believe he also worked at BMW. Besides, car designers are influenced by a whole multitude of things. To suggest that he last worked at Alfa is the reason for the look is just silly IMO.
Who knows, maybe Subie management (his bosses) like the look of Alfas, and said we would like something along those lines? No designer works in a vacuum. They all are influenced by others, as well as answer to others.
I would go for that. My main reason for the Tribeca platform is the H-6 and extra weight for towing and payload issues. I do think a new Baja needs the bigger engine, a feature that is also available on the new Outback. Building it on the smaller platform might keep it in the low to mid 20's, which would give it the price advantage over the Ridgeline.
Bob - I don't disagree that designers don't work in a vacuum. But all we "non-designers" see is the Alfa signature grill turned upside down - hence, it's easy to make that connection.
I'm sure there are other influences as well - but the most prominant cue is the grill. To the untrained eye it looks like he barely did anything.
Americans seem fixated on the 48" wheel well to wheel well for their trucks. But how many folks really are buying sheet rock and plywood on a regular basis? And, trust me it isn't easy to pull out a load of that stuff from the back of a bed. Give me delivery and the Home Depot fork lift anyday.
Keep in mind most folks here in the US probably don't even know what an Alfa is. The rest might have a faint memory of the Spider but even then that model had a tiny triangle cut out of its front bumper.
Most Americans that see the Tribeca are not going to think of Alfa, no way, no how.
I carried 5 sheets of OSB/plywood on my roof rack. But a pickup has to be able to handle a lot more than that...
Comments
The Tribeca Film Festival is April 19th to May 1st. They should have "Bobby D." drive up in one.
-Dennis
Frankfurt is in the fall IIRC. LA will shift to November but that's too late for MY2006 debuts.
-juice
• 2.5 WRX
• No '06 Legacy H6
• Baja lives!
• It appears that the N/A Baja uses the old 2.5 engine?
Bob
Wonder what tuning it will get, i.e. 210hp or 250, or something else?
Baja suprises me.
No H6, bummer.
-juice
But did you note the "continued" at the bottom of the models listed? Could the H-6 be on another page?
Dave
What surprises you about the Baja? That it remains? I'm not surprised, as they said some time ago that there would be an '06 Baja. Beyond '06, that's the question mark...
The fact that the N/A Baja has an "x" in that second column suggests to me that the Baja is getting little or no upgrades for '06. I mean why would the Baja not get the same upgraded N/A engine that all other '06 N/A Subies get?
If that's true, that indeed suggests to me that the Baja's days are numbered. If Subaru is going to continue with a next-generation Baja for '07, you'd think we would be seeing some minor upgrades for the '06 model—especially the 2.5 N/A engine upgrade.
Bob
A case for the STi can be made as it's a "halo" car for the Subaru brand, as it draws people into the showroom. So what about the other Subie sales cellar dwellers (or is that "seller" dwellers?)?
FWIW, I see far more Bajas on the road than I do Outback sedans or RS wagons.
Bob
Bob
Volume is so low for the Baja that I thought they might cancel it early. I guess it doesn't cost them much to produce if they have all the tooling.
Still, that's GM-style thinking.
Remember, Patti said the Outback sedan sells well in Canada. Not the US, but Canada demand might pick up the slack.
I guess we should look at worldwide demand for Baja also, since SIA is the only place it's made. Maybe that's why they keep making it.
-juice
I wonder which intercooler and turbo will be used with the 2.5 WRX? I also wonder what the actual/rated output will be.
There's an interesting discussion over at Nabisco regarding what the '06 WRX output should be. Many current owners say it "should be" greater than the GT/OBXT. They seem to forget that on a worldwide basis, the WRX is Subaru's entry level turbo vehicle.
Ken
now WRX wagon and XT are competing vehicles.
I don't think so, we don't even HAVE the Outback Sedan here in Canada, and I have never seen one. There is a rumour that they will start selling it for 06, but it is not available at this moment.
Sly
A guy who goes to our church has a 2003 model.
Cheers Pat.
Sly
LMAO i have seen about 3 around here
I doubt it costs much (if anything) to keep an Outback sedan around because it share body panels with other Legacys.
Baja shares sheet metal with nothing - that generation Legacy was discontinued.
For the last generation, 93% were wagons, 7% sedans, but that's total Legacy and Outback. Now they actually build more sedans than before, especially Leg GT models.
So I bet there are far more sedans (both kinds) vs. Bajas. On top of that they share front door and front panels with the wagons, too.
-juice
Bob
Sly
Last Outback sedan I saw was a used unit at the dealer imported from Washington State.
Perhaps sinking some money into a Baja Tribeca and making it more Ridgleine like makes more sense.
John
Other manufacturers are watching the Ridgeline closely as well. When Honda shows a "Concept" they typically are 80% there. Since the SUT concept was shown in Detroit 2004, others have been aware for over a year.
But remember, they modified the frame substantially, I don't think it would be as simple as slapping a bed on a Tribeca. Not if they want to compete seriously.
-juice
I hope they do that. I think Subaru will miss a HUGE opportunity if they give up on pickups.
Bob
I for one would jump all over it even if it only had 1,000 lbs payload and 3,000 lb towing. Those are much less important than a good AWD system, car-like ride, reliability, etc. all things that Subaru excels at. With the bed feature (and maybe a new nose and front profile) I think it would likely do well.
John
They'd basically have to make as many changes from Tribeca->Tribaja as they did from Legacy->Tribeca, and they'd end up with a new platform.
That's why I think we'll see a large sedan first. They can use the existing platform, so it will require less investment.
-juice
Is that a perfect solution? No, but it will keep their foot in the pickup door, if only barely. I say Subaru is better off having a Baja, than not having one. They just need to find a way to make it more appealing to more people. I think having a (roll-top-like retractable) locking hard bed cover as standard on all models would go a long way towards that end.
Bob
Ed
Zapatinas sholuld have done the front end design for free, seeing as it's just a bad copy of old work.
Nicholas
One other Canadian difference, the WRX STi is priced at $46,000. Don't get me started on how we get shafted on price.
JP
I think it's the latter.
But I don't mind one bit that we see a resemblance to gorgeous cars like the Alfa 156. Not one bit!
-juice
So this is common.
Didn't Nesbit design the PT Cruiser for Chrysler and then the HHR for Chevy?
I see a pattern.
-juice
Hasn't the Alfa grill been around forever? Did Zapatinas design it or just enhance it over the years?
Just wait until Cherry Automotive becomes inspired by the BMW kidney grill, flips it upside down, and tries to sell the design in America!!
So he didn't invent it, but he highlighted it.
Ironically, it is Subaru's triangle that points upward, looking like an A for Alfa. Alfas get a V shape.
-juice
Yes, I see Alfa influence, but I also see Jag S-Type, BMW, Bugatti, Studebaker Golden/Silver Hawk (which was inspired by MD grilles of that era). Need I go on?
Why everyone have just focused only on Alfa Romeo is beyond me...
Bob
Because that's where he worked before and you would expect people to compare his work at Alfa with his work at Subaru.
Who knows, maybe Subie management (his bosses) like the look of Alfas, and said we would like something along those lines? No designer works in a vacuum. They all are influenced by others, as well as answer to others.
Bob
John
I'm sure there are other influences as well - but the most prominant cue is the grill. To the untrained eye it looks like he barely did anything.
There were no HD Tribeca parts available for the Baja v1.0, when it was engineered.
Bob
John
A sheet or two is enough to built a box to drop off those bodies in the swamps. Do you even bother with boxes?
DaveM
Most Americans that see the Tribeca are not going to think of Alfa, no way, no how.
I carried 5 sheets of OSB/plywood on my roof rack. But a pickup has to be able to handle a lot more than that...
-juice