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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    First, again, variable valve lift (VVL) is NOT the same as variable valve timing (VVT).

    I say the addition of VVL to the 2.5L SOHC engine WILL improve its peak power and torque.

    Here's how the VVL system in the Outback 3.0R engine works, as described at a Subaru site.
    ... the ECM controls Variable Valve Lift. This is via a solenoid valve, which supplies oil pressure to a switchable tappet that alternates between the low and high cam lobes, depending on engine load and speed conditions.

    In simple terms, the engine runs at low lift below 2,000 rpm, then switches between low and high between 2,000 and 4,000 rpm, depending upon load.

    Above 4,000 rpm, valve lift is high, irrespective of engine load.
    I'd expect the engine is using the low cam lobes when its cruising on a flat highway at 65 mph.

    BTW, I don't care whether any other manufacturer has ever used VVL in the past. I only care that Subaru is now implementing it in its future models.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    1. First, again, variable valve lift (VVL) is NOT the same as variable valve timing (VVT).

    2. I say the addition of VVL to the 2.5L SOHC engine WILL improve its peak power and torque.

    _________

    1. Yeah, yeah. You knew exactly what I was talking about.

    2. I don't disagree, but I see this as a consequence of being able to use a camshaft and other valvegear optimized for higher RPM and still get good cruising MPG thanks to the VVL. I am quite sure that closing an intake valve will not net you more peak torque or HP in and of itself.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...I saw a Baja today - with real registration plates and everything.
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    Being able to close an intake valve would allow FHI to adopt much larger diameter intake valves and still be able to get good intake charge motion and combustion at low loads and engine speeds. Those larger intake valves would, in turn, allow better breathing at high engine loads and RPMs. That's how the ability to close an intake valve permits higher peak torque and HP.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    no way-- the size of the intake valves is limited by the size of the combustion chamber and valve angle. I am quite sure that Subaru is already using the largest valves they can in a given combustion chamber size. Additionally, modern engines use the smallest combustion chamber possible.

    Gains will be had by increasing lift and duration... the old-fashioned way.

    If this new 2.5L engine still only revs to 6250 rpm I will quietly eat my humble pie. :D

    ~Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet the redline goes up. It was 6500 for the DOHC engines, which seemed to enjoy high revs more.

    We'll see. So far redline is unlisted.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "I am quite sure that closing an intake valve will not net you more peak torque or HP in and of itself."

    Semantics indeed.

    Closing one of two intake valves can increase swirl within the combustion chamber. That swirl mixes the fuel/air more completely, allowing for more even combustion. More even combustion means more direct pressure on the piston (very slight boost in performance). And because none of the fuel is left "un-combusted", less of it needs to be pumped in.

    You get more power from less fuel, but not necessarily more power overall. The primary benefit is better fuel economy.

    This also helps with emissions. Any unburned fuel will be ejected with the exhaust gases. The less that happens, the better.

    I haven't studied the Subaru system well enough, but typically this sort of VVL is used for low rpm operation. When the engine reaches high rpm, good swirl takes a back seat to more air.

    Mind you... None of that has anything to do with the valve-phase control described in Jon's link. Combining the two provides some interesting benefits, but the best designs (from a performance perspective) are those which modulate valve phase and valve duration. Controlling duration means more time to get air into the chamber. And control over phase means air can get into the chamber sooner, which is important for Hondaesque high-rpm operation.

    Adding forced induction may alleviate some of the need for control over duration. Adjusting the pressure of the turbo may be enough to cram more air into the cylinder regardless of the valve opening. I'm one of those Honda NA guys, so I'm not very good with FI.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    Subaru To Launch New Ads Next Week

    Subaru of America will launch a new U.S. advertising campaign from its new ad agency this Monday around the slogan, "Think. Feel. Drive." The theme is already running in Japan and parts of Europe.

    The advertising effort, crated by new agency DDB Needham, replaces "Driven By What's Inside," which had been created by TM Advertising.

    The first two ads, according to Subaru dealers who have seen the work, are print ads that lay out an explanation of the new slogan. There is also a TV spot, which shows Subaru cars making full use of their all-wheel-drive technology while other cars are shown driving on only their front wheels with the back of the car sticking up in the air like wheelbarrows. Subaru sales were up seven percent in February and are about flat from a year ago. Sales are expected to climb this year, however, in part on the launch of the Tribeca SUV, which hits dealerships in the fall.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That should be pretty funny.

    -juice
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    juice,

    The full page in the Wall Street Journal today seemed to me to be a waste of money. As a Subaru owner I read it, but it probably seemed uninteresting to most.

    However the small ad for the Forester that appeared elsewhere in the Journal was to the point.

    Dave
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    ok dug up todays wsj

    the full page ad was DRIVING me to THINK that this ad would FEEL and read better after a few bong hits. this ad made me feel like i was at a meeting that i didnt want to be at with some dude showing these things via powerpoint. yawn.

    i dont know, guess i dont care what the latest slogan is, just the facts. i mean shouldnt they all have a slogan like 'our goal is to make lots of money'?

    i agree with juice the forester ad was kewl except with a few minor mods

    instead of think safe, how about think about doing 4 wheel drifts?

    instead of feel safe, feel that smile as ya smash the accelerator in your xt?

    instead of drive safe, have bob standing with his helmet on?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob with his helmet (by default of course) smashing the throttle in an XT and doing a 4 wheel drift.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    perfect showing 350z, vettes, etc spinning out of control
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    now THAT would be an ad!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I'd be in the passenger seat for that exact reason...

    -juice
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    pretty funny (though slightly corny). But it does emphasize on the AWD vs. RWD & FWD... it's a nice ad... I'm sure stronger ones are to come ;-)
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    why do sites require flash? i refuse to load flash as it creates ad hell. is there not something out there that can be used that doesnt create the horror of whats some sites do with floating flash stuff?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    why do sites require flash?

    Because some web developers feel they have to use a hot/cool/bleeding egde technology to show how advanced they are. IMHO, many work in a vacuum wrt what users actually have at their disposal. Not everyone has a T3 line to download stupid movies and huge graphics files just to get product infomation.

    Rant Off.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru's sites have used flash for years, that's not new at all.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    i can control those apps, not like flash. flash ranks up there with pop-ups to me
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Anyone catch how in the vehicles they use to show the symmetric drivetrain layout with the H6 features a sunroof-less Leg/OB wagon body?

    Ken
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I thought sites used to offer entry to Flash or Non-flash versions. Or am I just confused? Can't remember coming across the option recently.

    Nicholas
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I am not too impressed with the new marketing theme. Sounds like meaningless managment drivel to me (we're sujected to it all the time at work). If think/feel/drive grows sales or awareness, I will be really surprised. The only ad slogans I like are the catchy or humorous ones. This one is so generic it's hard to get interested in it.

    Craig
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I wasn't impressed.

    -Frank
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    I couldn't agree more. This site is obviously trying to appeal to drivers on an emotional level rather than giving any practical facts. Yet, even as a Subaru fan, I found the content and video to be sterile and generic. I don't see how any potential Subaru buyer would go to this site and be swayed to choose Subaru.

    The video seems almost remedial, using stock footage and hoaky slogans. Also, am I wrong, or was the montage of AWD layouts during the video actually showing competitors' layouts that are not symmetrical? If so, pretty cheesy.

    Elliot
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    For those going to the NY auto show, Subaru is offering a special event, right across the street from the Javits Center, at the SKYLOFT, 519 W. 36th St.

    You can register here, and get all the info:

    http://www.subaru.com/ny

    I'm going to check it out Saturday. From what I understand there will be food and you will be able to sit in the cars. Should be fun.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    SOA sure is tearing through them at a remarkable pace. What is it, three slogans in 2 years?

    "Once you get it, you get it."

    "Driven by what's inside."

    "Think.Feel.Drive."

    I don't get it-- any of them. I give SOA marketing a D- on their group project in Corporate Identity 101.

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    At NY, there are 2 '06 Foresters, under drapes, 1 with a hood scoop. Intro is tomorrow morning ~ 10:00 or so.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bob Lutz.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    At NY, there are 2 '06 Foresters, under drapes, 1 with a hood scoop

    xt has a hood scoop. doesnt mean sti. how big is this hood scoop? same size as the wrx sti?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Don't know. I doubt it's an STi though.

    Bob
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    From rsholland, "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" #16350, 23 Mar 2005 4:28 pm
    Bob Lutz.
    So what did Bob Lutz (who's looking more and more like a shooting star) say to him? Nice to meetya?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Its actually not Subaru's Marketing Dept that is wholly responsible... the Think.Feel.Drive ads are the genious of DDB New York, an advertising agency.

    Bob, Im sorry I'll miss you- I'm planning to attend the Skyloft event on Friday night. Anyone in the area going then?

    -Joe
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    From alpha01, "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" #16355, 24 Mar 2005 12:56 am
    Its actually not Subaru's Marketing Dept that is wholly responsible... the Think.Feel.Drive ads are the genious of DDB New York, an advertising agency.
    You've managed to get that completely wrong. Fuji Heavy in Japan invented the Think. Feel. Drive. slogan in 2003 and now DDB New York is just trying to do the best they can with it. It's going to take a LOT of work to make that silly slogan catch on.

    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2003/03_10_22e.htm
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    sounds like the bar was open too late when they came up with that. they could have thrown in a 'i love you man' in there also
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I don't know about the slogan, but I laughed out loud last night at a TV commercial. Open with scenes of cars driving hither and yon, all of them with either their front or back ends lifted off the ground. Pull in close to a street scene of a Legacy sedan driving along with all four wheels on the ground while the announcer says, "why have four wheels if you are only going to use two?" or something to that effect. Brilliant! As AWD becomes more prevalent (a prediction I made some years back) this may be Subaru's last big chance to tout their all-AWD lineup, and that ad does a bang-up job of it.

    Anxiously awaiting word from NY,
    -wdb
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    ... in a commercial with a Loyale sedan backing into a trash can, set to the music of 'you always hurt the one you love' Rob M.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    wdb, I liked it too. It's the first AWD that I've seen that really communicates what AWD is. Yeah, they took a comical if not absurd approach, but it does communicate the advantages of AWD much better than just showing cars on snow or curvy roads and talking about the advantages of AWD.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • fenris2fenris2 Member Posts: 31
    Flash is nearly ubiquitous now, so some sites are flash only. It has absolutely huge advantages over most other forms of site presentation for inter activity, uniformity as well as audience tracking.

    For example, most advertising agencies, such as those used by the auto companies, insist on its use for web sites that carry there ads. Been there done that for Ford ads on one site I owned a while back. I doubt Subie is any different

    As far as company sites. If all you want is a static site, the merits are limited. But what if you want interactive car tours? Mini-driving games? Build your car to order apps? Add that you want all your users to see the same thing, and for it to work for them. Then a very strong argument can be made for flash as the way to go

    As an example, on a Non-flash site, I would have to code 5-6 versions at a bare minimum for anything interactive, and even then then capabilities/layout of a site user X sees may differ quite greatly from user Y. . . With dreaded javascript errors as a likely event for a good portion of my user base - it just won't look professional.

    Believe it or not. Once you step beyond very basic HTML, browsers are like cars with different parts for different browsers, even among the same family/versions. And all have "character" (read bugs) that you have to code around

    FYI Flash can smaller than typical sites or bigger, up to the coders to know how such things work. And, yes I agree the capabilities of flash encourage one to go wild and add all sorts of stuff - if you don't focus keeping it a clean design.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Hot of the press from the auto show brochure of the 2006 Forester-

    N/A 2.5 engine 173 HP
    Turbo 2.5 engine 230 HP
    no torque figures,sorry!
    4EAT w/o SportShift.
    No 6-speed

    I was hoping for more power from the N/A 2.5, and am disappointed that no 5EAT is available; same with the lack of the rumored 6-speed.

    I wonder if the turbo actually makes more power, or if it now has "real" hp ratings?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    He's got a front row seat at the Subie presentation. More to come, I'm sure...

    Bob
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    Flash makes developers' lives easier and users' lives hell. More than 60% of all internet users in the US access the web via dialup.

    Here's a challenge for anyone who loves flash websites. After clearing your browser's cache, access www.subaru.com via dialup and tell me how long it takes you to discover which, if any, Forester models are available with a Sportshift automatic transmission.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Forester ground clearance now 8.1." So does that now make it a "truck?"

    Bob
  • jon_in_ctjon_in_ct Member Posts: 137
    From rsholland, "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" #16367, 24 Mar 2005 11:20 am
    Forester ground clearance now 8.1." So does that now make it a "truck?"
    I would say "yes" because the "old" Forester's ground clearance was less than 7 7/8 inches, the magic height from NHTSA, and that was what kept it from being classified as a light truck.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    real hp getting published?
    ½ taller height so they can play the CAFE games?
    what a disappointment
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
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