Subaru Crew - Future Models II

rangner · December 2005

So theoretically it wouldn't be a stretch to bring it here. If the R1/R2 microcars are coming, it would seem there would be a big gap between the 600cc microcars and the 2500cc impreza that could be filled by an impreza with the engine size you just mentioned.

Eric

rsholland · December 2005

I don't expect to see a 1500cc Impreza here. Maybe a smaller car with a 1500cc engine, but not the Impreza.

The JDM 1500cc Impreza is strictly the bottom feeder of the Impreza lineup, and is available in both FWD and AWD. It's sold nowhere other than Japan.

Bob

ateixeira · December 2005

I recall finding a 156hp 2.0l model from Japan. That could serve as the bottom feeder here. I'm just not sure if Subaru wants to compete in that segment, as it would be hard to make a profit.

I guess they could sell an Impreza 2.0i if they needed the CAFE credits. But it could probably only cost $500-1000 less than the current Impreza, and might even cannibalize the 2.5l models.

-juice

jeffmc · December 2005

Hmm. NAIAS called it the "Subaru BTH-5". The "Bath-5"? New bathtub-shaped body (that'd be a convertible, right)? Watertight interior? :P

kens · December 2005

I LOVE it! I'll take the wagon in arrest-me red!

Anyone notice that the lower edge of the front grille now hangs a little lower a la new Subaru design identity?

Ken

ateixeira · December 2005

Must be a typo...

-juice

bigelm · January 2006

But I just want to add that if the revised front fascia holds true, Subaru can use the excuse that Toyota has started to use for their Toyota and Lexus lineup. In order to bring more customers to increase sales and distinguish admirable styling between models years, they'll continue to make "minor" changes to gain consumer interests...

Let's see if that flies (no pun intended).

ateixeira · January 2006

This thread should be buzzing about ... something? Subaru has no debuts at all for LA or NAIAS? Nothing? That's a shame...

-juice

once_for_all · January 2006

hear hear, Juice. Where's our new Baja?

John

rsholland · January 2006

I can only hope for a surprise of some sort. I think Subaru desparately need one.

Bob

jeffmc · January 2006

Too soon to hope for a decision on sending the R1/R2 here? Probably. It'd be a great place to show them off, though... measure the American public reaction a little more than just driving them at SOA.

subearu · January 2006

will anything from Subaru debut at the Chicago show in Feb?

-Brian

rsholland · January 2006

I hope so Brian, but I don't know for sure. I haven't heard anything.

Bob

subearu · January 2006

Thanks Bob. I'm going on 2/16. The online webcams of the show floor start at the end of the month.

-Brian

rsholland · January 2006

Today, at the Detroit show, SOA has scheduled a a press announcement that runs from 4:20  4:45.

We know the B5 TPH (hybrid) concept will be shown. This was first shown at the Tokyo show in October. As to any other "new" news? Your guess is as good as mine.

Bob

rsholland · January 2006

They showed the B5 TPH concept and the R1e prototype. That's it. No news on any new production models.

SOA wasted a huge opportunity here, as far as I'm concerned.

Bob

dino001 · January 2006

I guess "dust in the wind" still rules ... :sick:

subearu · January 2006

Perhaps Chicago will be their news debut venue? *shrug*

-Brian

ateixeira · January 2006

Yawn.

Hope they'll do more at Chicago or NY. Throw the US a cookie!

-juice

dstew1 · January 2006

Subaru's strong suit, and they show nothing new. It looks like the B5-TPH is there, but we've seen it before and after seeing most of the other concepts, the B5s looks made me want to cry.

rsholland · January 2006

Cry as in good? Or as in bad?

Bob

dstew1 · January 2006

Cry as in bad, and even then I'm exagerrating (a little). But I understand it's a concept and there are many changes likely to be made before it ever sees production (and hey, it's Subaru we're talking here, so maybe some changes made after it starts production).

Love the turbo-hybrid concept, as well as the idea of a weekend getaway car for couples, and the overall shape of the car isn't bad at all, but some of the details are too odd for me. For example, the B pillar looks awkward and the car's face rubs me wrong - specifically the two semi-grill areas (between the center grill and headlights).

Doug

ateixeira · January 2006

I like it, of course I liked the Chevy Nomad as well.

But yeah, we've seen it, nothing new. And the hybrid system was out before the Toyota partnership, so you wonder if any part of the powertrain will go into production (I say likely not).

-juice

rangner · January 2006

no more than 3.0 or 2.5T outback models are cannibalized by 2.5i models.

I just think there is a gaping hole is the automotive market for a light (>2500lbs) inexpensive reliable AWD car that gets good mileage 30-40mpg--Especially in the subaru lineup. Basically if you want a subaru the best mileage you can get is at least sub 30mpg more like mid 20's.

Just my thoughts

Eric

robr2 · January 2006

I just think there is a gaping hole is the automotive market for a light (>2500lbs) inexpensive reliable AWD car that gets good mileage 30-40mpg-

I don't think you can get all 4 in one package due to those pesky laws of physics and thermal dymanics. 2 tops - maybe 3.

jeffmc · January 2006

With its R2 model, Subaru manages to break the laws of physics, but in Japan only.

Even the heaviest Subaru R2 comes in at about 1900 lbs - the supercharged S model with optional AWD, 7-speed sport shift CVT and 15" wheels, which delivers about 40mpg and can be had for about $14k.

http://www.autozine.org/html/Subaru/R2.html

SUBARU: Send it to North America!!!

once_for_all · January 2006

Confirmation of a boxer diesel in development.

"Fuji Heavy, which dissolved its capital alliance with General Motors Corp. in October, has been working out details of a tie-up in production and technology with top shareholder Toyota Motor Corp., which owns 8.7 percent of Fuji.

Takenaka added it hoped to raise its European auto sales to 100,000 units by 2010, from about 64,000 forecast for 2006, with the introduction of cars mounted with its first diesel engine, which is under development.

"I believe diesel engines will play a big role in the expansion," he said. "Technology-wise, we will likely be able to introduce a high-performance, horizontally opposed diesel engine in 2007 or '08 to achieve the goal of 100,000 units in Europe."

You would have to be pulling my leg if SOA ignores its biggest potential diesel sales here in the US. Like Europe, it will be a bad deal if a manufacturer doesn't offer a US diesel engine by 2008.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=motoringSummary&storyID=20- 06-01-13T105825Z_01_NOA339412_RTRUKOC_0_AUTOS-SUBARU-SALES.xml

John

robr2 · January 2006

With its R2 model, Subaru manages to break the laws of physics, but in Japan only.

And that's where I think it'll stay. I'd be afraid to drive the R2 here in the land of Escalades and H2's.

jeffmc · January 2006

If it aced the crash tests, I'd be comfortable driving one, particularly as a second car. (Though I'd still rather see the R1e. Maybe in a couple years they'll have an R2e.) Latest Subarus have had extremely solid structures.
I think the perception of small=unsafe would be the biggest challenge, so they'd really have to attack that angle from a marketing standpoint, assuming the facts from crash testing confirmed the car's structural integrity. If I did the ad, I'd run a list of all the larger vehicles it outscored.
Incidentally, Hyundai hasn't been stellar with their crash test results, but that hasn't stopped them from selling a ton of cars. It has, however, prevented me from considering them for now.

rsholland · January 2006

Chicago Auto Show, press day Feb. 9 at 11:00 Subaru will have a World Debut!

https://www.chicagoautoshow.com/media/presskit/

Any guesses?

Bob

robr2 · January 2006

Everybody but Kia is having a World Introduction. I'm not expecting much, especially since Detroit - THE AUTO SHOW - just ended.

I'm guessing facelifted Legacy.

rsholland · January 2006

I think that's a good possibility.

Bob

subearu · January 2006

Planning on going on 2/16, so the news will be old by then but I'll get pictures naturally.

-Brian

jeffmc · January 2006

So, recent concepts have been a large coupe (B11S) with a twin-turbo H6, small coupe/wagon (B5-TPH) turbo hybrid, roadster (B9S) hybrid, and an electric mini (R1e). I think they're giving up on the truck idea for now. We know they plan a mini-minivan for Japan and a diesel boxer engine for Europe, neither of which make sense to debut in Chicago. I don't think they have enough R&D money to be working on much more technology than they have already announced.
It almost seems a shame to introduce a facelifted Legacy now that the sedan is finally taking off, and I think Subaru'd introduce it in Japan first, since it'll probably be on sale for a year there before we can get it here. It also seems too soon after the Impreza and Forester facelifts to intro a version of either.
I guess I have to ask myself, what would Zapatinas do?

That seems to leave either something larger than an R2 but smaller than an Impreza, or a sedan larger than the Legacy. Which makes more sense to debut in North America, considering they already played their hybrid card and are trying to push the premium image?

New Tribeca-sized flagship sedan, Zap-styled and curvaceous like no Subaru we've ever seen before
or (can I submit two guesses?)...
facelifted '07 Tribeca with a twin-turbo H6, manual tranny option, HID, memory driver's seat and telescoping steering wheel. And it'll be available for delivery by the end of June.

movedor · January 2006

My guess this debut is the hybrid Legacy.

jeffmc · January 2006

I thought of that, too, but back in August Subaru said they'd "experimentally" launch hybrid Legacy in Japan in 2007. Not sure why they'd debut it here, now, unless they've changed their plans. I would think their hybrid plans would be in a bit of turmoil, trying to figure out how much of their in-house, pre-production technology to scrap in favor of Toyota's current production hybrid tech. Subaru develops supposedly superior technology, then wants to utilize Toyota's instead to save bucks. Frustrating.

Nonetheless, a Legacy hybrid debut would certainly be a welcome sight on our shores!

subearu · January 2006

Has the U.S. received the facelifted Subie's prior to other markets before? You'd think we would have seen spy pics or mockups of the facelifted Legacy by now.

With nothing to base these guesses on, I'm going to say it's a B9 H6 TT (or Legacy, that would be nice to see) or the B9 hybrid. I'd think they'd want to debut the B9 with the hybrid, not the Legacy, especially in the U.S. I guess at this point I'd lean towards the B9 TT...

-Brian

rsholland · January 2006

either

1) The facelifted '07 Legacy, or

2) The Euro-beca, possibly renamed the Halifax, and with some stying "adjustments."

Bob

robr2 · January 2006

2) The Euro-beca, possibly renamed the Halifax, and with some stying "adjustments."

That's a thought but is Chicago a big enough show to warrant the introduction of a Euro product??

c_hunter · January 2006

If Subaru history tells us anything, the mid-model remake of the Legacy line won't happen until the 08 US model year. So I would put a facelifted Legacy lower down the line. The only time Subaru has bucked the 3rd year refresh trend is in cases where a vehicle was having sales issues due to styling (as in the 02-03 Impreza line in Europe).

It would not surprise me to see a facelifted Tribeca, however, or variations on that platform. And we know the European Tribeca is imminent, making it a strong candidate for announcement. Beyond that, any major announcement would definitely come as a surprise to me, which is good, I need some excitement on the Subaru front...

CRaig

bigelm · January 2006

Hey... no cross posting allowed :mad:

Oh... hehehe.. my bad... making all the changes at NABISCO has me seeing every site the same...

Carry on!!!

OTOH, Subaru needs to bring a Tribeca platform based sedan, or make better use of interior space on the Leg GT so I can buy one!!! :furious:

ateixeira · January 2006

Isn't it the US show with the biggest attendance? It is still an important show, maybe #2 after NAIAS.

Subaru debuts a lot of stuff there. I hope they invite me and Bob! I'd go in a heart beat!

A buddy of mine works for MPT and can get me in to see Motorweek's awards cerimony plus the reception. Please invite us!

Prediction? Could be a face-lifted Legacy, I guess, but I think we might even see a Tribeca face-lift or even a platform-mate for the Tribeca, that will be what the Outback is to the Legacy.

B9 Outbeca. :confuse:

-juice

bat1161 · January 2006

Do you folks think Subaru will do anything with the B5TPH? I ask because I just received a "new owners" issue of Drive that talks a lot about the B5. It's enough to make me wonder if they would put it into production in the near future.

Mark

ateixeira · January 2006

No, I don't. I do think it implies there will be a hatch/3 door version of the new WRX.

The hybrid powertrain was developed before Toyota became a partner, so that likely kills the whole powertrain, at least in its current form.

Response was luke warm. It did not win any awards. People talked more about the Prodrive concept than Subaru's own B5TPH.

So my guess is no. I'd like to see a 5 door version with some design influence from it, though.

-juice

rsholland · January 2006

Found over at NABISCO:

Rumors from talking to my regional rep @ the dealership today:

1. The 2007 Spec-B will have a 6MT (finally!), and a blue/black interior similar to the STI's, but in leather. No word on HP increase, and still limited production. No word on Xenons.

2. 800 Limited STIs will be produced for 2007, this is an STI with the Limited (WRX) package--so leather & sunroof, and WRX-style (low) tail. (The UK should be already getting this package this year).

3. 2007 Foresters & Imprezas will be Sirius Radio pre-wired, Leg/OB/B9 will get XM pre-wire.

4. All 2007s will get MP3 input jacks for the stock radios.

5. 2007 B9s will get an optional mesh front grille (not sure that's the cure it needs).

6. 2006 MY production will cease in March, and new MY 2007s will begin to debut in July (though new Spec-B and STI-Limited won't be until Fall sometime).

That's all I've heard. As ever, YMMV...

Bob

ateixeira · January 2006

Why the Sirius/XM flip-flop?

The aux input jack is overdue, but thankfully here.

Good news on the 6MT for the spec.B, that might get it some well deserved attention. Only MT truly re-tested the Legacy when that model came out.

Mesh front grille - YEAH! I *hate* chrome. This is a big upgrade to me.

-juice

robr2 · January 2006

Why the Sirius/XM flip-flop?

Perhaps the demographics of each model align closely with those of each satellite radio provider?

Or perhaps it's a reluctance to commit to one or both.

ateixeira · January 2006

I wonder if the head units are made by different manufacturers?

I used to keep track of that stuff, but not any more. I know they've used Clarion and Panasonic in the past, but I think the B9 uses Kenwood for the NAV.

-juice

dino001 · January 2006

I wonder if manual on Legacy wagons (GTs) will be back or if it's gone forever. That '06 trim "realignment" on Leg GT sucked big time for me.

Other thing - will Legacy H6 w/man come here, ever? 2008? 2009? 2025?...

bigelm · January 2006

Found over at NABISCO:

Rumors from talking to my regional rep @ the dealership today:

1. The 2007 Spec-B will have a 6MT (finally!), and a blue/black interior similar to the STI's, but in leather. No word on HP increase, and still limited production. No word on Xenons.

2. 800 Limited STIs will be produced for 2007, this is an STI with the Limited (WRX) package--so leather & sunroof, and WRX-style (low) tail. (The UK should be already getting this package this year).

3. 2007 Foresters & Imprezas will be Sirius Radio pre-wired, Leg/OB/B9 will get XM pre-wire.

4. All 2007s will get MP3 input jacks for the stock radios.

5. 2007 B9s will get an optional mesh front grille (not sure that's the cure it needs).

6. 2006 MY production will cease in March, and new MY 2007s will begin to debut in July (though new Spec-B and STI-Limited won't be until Fall sometime).

That's all I've heard. As ever, YMMV...

Bob

There seems to be some truth to this...

That's all I'm saying...

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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