Here is the problem. Put some good summer rubber on and guess what? The other half of the people will complain that they don't work well in the snow. So it's really a catch 22 on a car such as a WRX or a Subaru in general.
The problem with your argument is that RE92 are simply terrible in any non-dry condition - wet or snow - just read feedback on them and their competitors on Tire Rack. They felt unsafe every time a decent rain fell down here (and in FL we do get rains). Moreover, their wear is in pair with those that summer performance tires, not all-season, as they are marketed. Basicaly we get worst of the worlds - terrible wear, terrible non-dry performance, high retail price - with benefit of OK handling (nothing exceptiona, but can't really complain) on dry.
I don't need supersticky summer tires on WRX or Legacies - if one wants those, they should buy themselves. But RE92 are BELOW anything I know on compromised surface and that is simply unacceptable, as there are around "all-season performance" choices at the same retail price price range and same nominal specs. Heck, you can get tons of better al-season V-rated tires at prices lower by as much as $30-50/each (retail) than RE92.
So don't tell me they can't do better without making the car more expensive or handling worse in non-dry conditions, becasue they can. The argument simply doesn't hold. RE92s are overpriced junk and everybody know it, including Subaru. I'm pretty sure they must be getting them at $10/pop, or why else would they insist on them.
If you read my WHOLE ENTIRE post, I said that I'm not sure the RE92s are the correct tires either. I just setup several of my friends and relatives with Sumitommo HTR+ tires which are awsome all-season tires at a fraction of the RE92 cost.
I used to think my RE92s (215/45x17) were okay. Not anymore, at least in wet conditions. They are really bad; same with snow. They also seem to be a bit slippery in the dry. Maybe I'm just pushing the car harder through some fun corners I drive all the time.
They seem to be wearing well, as I have close to 30K on mine, with few signs of wear.
I too have no desire to go get a summer tire. I'd just like a really good all-season tire—that works reasonably well in all conditions, dry, rain and snow; if such a thing exists.
Bob
Take a look at those Sumitomos, they will definitely help on those dry curves and in the light snow you guys get down in MD/VA/DC area. Another good choice are the Dunlop SP5000s. I think the SP5000s are over priced compared to the Sumis though.
You've suggested the Sumitomo HTR+ a number of times in the past as a good tire, and it may well be. However, when I've looked at the Sumitomo website, I don't see them as available in 225/55/17, which fits an Outback.
Bummer that they don't have em for the Outback. I just ordered up som 225-60-16s for my brother in law's Outback. You may have to go slightly wider or narrower to get a set to fit the 225-55-17 equipped outbacks, let me take a quick look and see what might fit.
-mike
Followup...
235-50-17 fit in HTR+ and give you a slightly better contact patch with only a 1.8% faster speedo rating.
Another good value tire would be the HTR H4s, that come in that size are run only $79 @ TR. I will actually be putting these on my 240sx for the winter, so I will have some feedback in the next few months on em.
48" cargo width is doubtful. I think the Outback and Tribeca are around 39-40" wide.
So far, so good. It is nice and boxy, so cargo room should still be amazing for the overall size.
I see some Pilot from the straigh-on rear view, but the profile reminds me more of the Mitsubishi Montero. In a good way, though, very Paris-Dakar style.
The front headlights look like the WRX, yet the grille is adapted from the Tribeca.
Looks like they kept some family resemblence yet still managed to give it a look of its own.
I'm happy because I liked my Forester as it was, and they're making some key improvements here:
* larger/wider cargo area (already good, now better) * longer wheelbase for rear legroom * bigger gas tank for more range * window frames for NVH * GPS * VDC * SAC
Enough acronyms for you?
Basically the we wanted a bit more room, but it's getting that and more.
They kept it boxy so it should offer an acre of cargo space.
There is one major problem.............................I have to commit to a lease (12/27) before the new Forester is released..............Subaru, if your listening - could you varify a firm delivery date??
I finally sat in the new Impreza this weekend at the auto show, and I can say from personal experience that the extra inches in the wheelbase has made a tremendous difference in leg and foot room for back seat passengers. If that translates over to the new Forester as well, it will be a big plus over the old model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dimensions will be larger than current, as expected.
=> 4.5" longer, 1.8" wider, 3.3" taller (no roof rail) => Minimum clearance will be increased by 0.4" for NA, and 1.0" for turbo models (exclude Cross Sport & STI)
Dimensions work out to: 7.9" shorter length than Outback .4" wider than Outback 4.3" taller than Outback
Might be enough to tempt me away from my '06 Outback, but I've promised myself my next Subie will be either direct injection or diesel (or electric, if I can dream for a moment). I'm likin' the looks & size increase so far. The length of my Outback's cargo area has been just right for me, so I'll be watching closely to see how Forester's interior dimensions measure up.
I'd just like a really good all-season tire—that works reasonably well in all conditions, dry, rain and snow; if such a thing exists.
Goodyear's TripleTred fit that bill quite well, but I did sacrifice some fuel economy for it. It also had an 80,000 treadwear on it, which is astounding considering how well it gripped ice and plowed through snow.
The RE92A tires on my Outback are okay on dry and are even not horrible on ice, but they are absolutely awful with snow. Awful. Seems like they have trouble handling surfaces with depth... :mad:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
"Wonder what those holes are in the lower bumper, towards each side. Vents? Rubber bumpers?" I'm guessing they're slightly inset reflectors as on Impreza, Legacy & Tribeca.
It's funny that you and I might both like a certain design, yet we will cite different reasons for it.
I like that the wheels are closer to the corners on the new Impreza, the D-pillar swoop, and the black (as opposed to chrome) window surrounds. I also like those wheels and that particular color.
Generally, I hate chrome, prefer blacked out trim, and I strongly prefer symmetry to asymmetry.
I realize that's purely personal tastes. The trend right now is to chrome everything except the tires and toss in one bizaree mismatching feature to create asymmetry. LOL
Hey, it's got a center mounted antenna, you should be happy.
I don't think a 4-banger needs dual exhausts. That would be silly. Would you prefer a center mounted exhaust, in the name of symmetry? Someone once did that, (BMW? Porsche?), and it just looked WRONG.
I agree with you an the tail lights. Pure trendy fashion follow-the-leader foolishness. I feel the same way about the "arching roof line" (dumb). I think we can thank VW/Audi for that one. :sick:
It's all a matter of taste... however MY taste is impeccable! :shades:
BMW-like or not, they're nice creases, IMHO. Since folks don't think of Subaru as a trend-setter in the design dept., anything unique they come up with gets labeled "wacky" or "ugly", pretty much forcing them to follow others' designs. Maybe once they've been successfully emulating the trend-setters for awhile, they'll have enough cache to go their own way.
Clean, simple & strong, like a Forester should be. Hmm... what are the odds of capturing a shot on the road that ONLY shows the rear straight-on, exactly like the teaser. Intentional leak?
I see what oregonboy is saying about the concavity, but they add those creases to increase strength.
Remember when Stephen's WRX was dented in that area when someone was helping him work on his stage 0 turbo upgrade? He got so frustrated he ended up in a Jeep Wrangler.
Also, the flare itself is semi-circular, which looks a lot better than the squared-off ones that don't match the shape of the tire. This is lark6's pet peeve, I believe.
I'm guessing 5 spoke wheels, and they look good, unique too.
Headlights remind me of the Tribeca, again.
I drove in this morning behind a Pilot so I got a good look at it. The overall shape of the 08 Forester does resemble the Pilot, but the lower bumper and (yes) the dual exhaust make the Forester look a bit better.
I also love that the window is large and set fairly low. Notice how you can clearly see the entire driver's head rests. Now that's visibility, baby!
This is a long shot but the tires look like Potenza RE92s to me.
The more I see, the more I like.
For Sale: 2002 Legacy L 5 speed, 46k miles. Includes 7/100 Subaru Gold warranty with no deductible, 6CD changer, and aftermarket power moonroof.
Just kidding, not yet. We have to wait until March or so.
From everything seen so far, I think this new design looks pretty good. My only personal reservation is the increase in roof height; the current Forester is the only SUV-like thing that you can put a roof box on and still drive into an underground garage with. Minor for most people I guess; it sounds like they have addressed nearly every other issue. Good work, Subaru.
* those wheels look the same, I like the beefy 5 spoke look * windows are TINTED, a first for the Forester * dual exhaust again seen here * wonderfully boxy shape and big windows, * rear door appears a lot wider, easier ingress/egress? * the vehicle as a whole looks a lot bigger, no? * I doubt the USA will get those window vents
A tad bland but I'm hoping the character comes from the front view of the design, and that would be OK. This is definitely a functional shape, though.
Lookin' good. This'll really help separate Forester and Outback. Cargo area appears to be of generous size. Taillight shape is pretty similar to Outback & helps to identify it as a Subie. Definitely looks larger, but the dimensions mentioned earlier aren't a gigantic increase, so it'll be interesting to see this and the current model side-by-side to compare.
...are saying size is comparible to Mitsubishi Outlander.
Also, the Ota factory in Japan has suposedly been retooled to build the new Forester and also the Exiga MPV on the same line according to some sources.
Hmm, Exiga was a concept, though. Wonder what the production model will look like.
Hopefully Subaru will bring it here. Mazda5 has been a sleeper hit for them, and Kia sells the Rondo in that class. Honda is considering bringing the Stream, and Toyota has a Mio X that so far is only offered in Japan.
Actually the next Legacy/Outback will be built on the tribecca platform according to some people at SOA. The legacy won't have the height of the beca but similar footprint though.
I have my car ready to trade in the moment a new larger powerful legacy comes out. 3.6Turbo or bust w/6MT
Comments
The problem with your argument is that RE92 are simply terrible in any non-dry condition - wet or snow - just read feedback on them and their competitors on Tire Rack. They felt unsafe every time a decent rain fell down here (and in FL we do get rains). Moreover, their wear is in pair with those that summer performance tires, not all-season, as they are marketed. Basicaly we get worst of the worlds - terrible wear, terrible non-dry performance, high retail price - with benefit of OK handling (nothing exceptiona, but can't really complain) on dry.
I don't need supersticky summer tires on WRX or Legacies - if one wants those, they should buy themselves. But RE92 are BELOW anything I know on compromised surface and that is simply unacceptable, as there are around "all-season performance" choices at the same retail price price range and same nominal specs. Heck, you can get tons of better al-season V-rated tires at prices lower by as much as $30-50/each (retail) than RE92.
So don't tell me they can't do better without making the car more expensive or handling worse in non-dry conditions, becasue they can. The argument simply doesn't hold. RE92s are overpriced junk and everybody know it, including Subaru. I'm pretty sure they must be getting them at $10/pop, or why else would they insist on them.
If you read my WHOLE ENTIRE post, I said that I'm not sure the RE92s are the correct tires either. I just setup several of my friends and relatives with Sumitommo HTR+ tires which are awsome all-season tires at a fraction of the RE92 cost.
-mike
They seem to be wearing well, as I have close to 30K on mine, with few signs of wear.
I too have no desire to go get a summer tire. I'd just like a really good all-season tire—that works reasonably well in all conditions, dry, rain and snow; if such a thing exists.
Bob
Take a look at those Sumitomos, they will definitely help on those dry curves and in the light snow you guys get down in MD/VA/DC area. Another good choice are the Dunlop SP5000s. I think the SP5000s are over priced compared to the Sumis though.
-mike
-mike
Followup...
235-50-17 fit in HTR+ and give you a slightly better contact patch with only a 1.8% faster speedo rating.
Another good value tire would be the HTR H4s, that come in that size are run only $79 @ TR. I will actually be putting these on my 240sx for the winter, so I will have some feedback in the next few months on em.
That would be a big incentive for purchase!
So far, so good. It is nice and boxy, so cargo room should still be amazing for the overall size.
I see some Pilot from the straigh-on rear view, but the profile reminds me more of the Mitsubishi Montero. In a good way, though, very Paris-Dakar style.
The front headlights look like the WRX, yet the grille is adapted from the Tribeca.
Looks like they kept some family resemblence yet still managed to give it a look of its own.
I showed my wife and she liked it, too.
* larger/wider cargo area (already good, now better)
* longer wheelbase for rear legroom
* bigger gas tank for more range
* window frames for NVH
* GPS
* VDC
* SAC
Enough acronyms for you?
Basically the we wanted a bit more room, but it's getting that and more.
They kept it boxy so it should offer an acre of cargo space.
Perhaps I could extend my lease.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Can you extend your current lease by 6 months, perhaps?
At least 3 months.
=> 4.5" longer, 1.8" wider, 3.3" taller (no roof rail)
=> Minimum clearance will be increased by 0.4" for NA, and 1.0" for turbo models (exclude Cross Sport & STI)
Bob
103.9" wheelbase, a little over 180" long, basically right in the sweet spot of the segment.
With a boxy shape it should be medium sized but with a bigger than average interior. Sounds good to me.
The bigger gas tank will be appreciated, too.
Should be a winner if the rear leg room is there, cause that is what stopped at least 10 people I know from buying the older versions.
-mike
7.9" shorter length than Outback
.4" wider than Outback
4.3" taller than Outback
Might be enough to tempt me away from my '06 Outback, but I've promised myself my next Subie will be either direct injection or diesel (or electric, if I can dream for a moment). I'm likin' the looks & size increase so far. The length of my Outback's cargo area has been just right for me, so I'll be watching closely to see how Forester's interior dimensions measure up.
2009 Initial Order Acceptance Date: 1/28/08
2009 Production Start Up Date: 2/11/08
2009 Initial Delivery Date: 3/17/08
Unfortunately I can't wait.
The good thing is I'll have many new models to choose from in Dec. '10 - Forester, Outback, and Tribeca - and maybe a Van??
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20177505&postcount=186
Bob
Wonder what those holes are in the lower bumper, towards each side. Vents? Rubber bumpers?
Goodyear's TripleTred fit that bill quite well, but I did sacrifice some fuel economy for it. It also had an 80,000 treadwear on it, which is astounding considering how well it gripped ice and plowed through snow.
The RE92A tires on my Outback are okay on dry and are even not horrible on ice, but they are absolutely awful with snow. Awful. Seems like they have trouble handling surfaces with depth... :mad:
I'm guessing they're slightly inset reflectors as on Impreza, Legacy & Tribeca.
Of course that picture highlights the chrome strip, single exhaust outlet, and the clear tails that are the things I don't like about the new Impreza.
Bob
It's funny that you and I might both like a certain design, yet we will cite different reasons for it.
I like that the wheels are closer to the corners on the new Impreza, the D-pillar swoop, and the black (as opposed to chrome) window surrounds. I also like those wheels and that particular color.
Generally, I hate chrome, prefer blacked out trim, and I strongly prefer symmetry to asymmetry.
I realize that's purely personal tastes. The trend right now is to chrome everything except the tires and toss in one bizaree mismatching feature to create asymmetry. LOL
I don't think a 4-banger needs dual exhausts. That would be silly. Would you prefer a center mounted exhaust, in the name of symmetry? Someone once did that, (BMW? Porsche?), and it just looked WRONG.
I agree with you an the tail lights. Pure trendy fashion follow-the-leader foolishness. I feel the same way about the "arching roof line" (dumb). I think we can thank VW/Audi for that one. :sick:
It's all a matter of taste... however MY taste is impeccable! :shades:
james
james
Another image, but time one caught out on the road, but with all badging taped over.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20187421&postcount=198
The more I see, the more I like.
Bob
The Boxster looks good with a center mounted exhaust, IMO. Although I hate center mounted speedos - that's for back seat drivers.
I see what oregonboy is saying about the concavity, but they add those creases to increase strength.
Remember when Stephen's WRX was dented in that area when someone was helping him work on his stage 0 turbo upgrade? He got so frustrated he ended up in a Jeep Wrangler.
Also, the flare itself is semi-circular, which looks a lot better than the squared-off ones that don't match the shape of the tire. This is lark6's pet peeve, I believe.
I'm guessing 5 spoke wheels, and they look good, unique too.
Headlights remind me of the Tribeca, again.
I drove in this morning behind a Pilot so I got a good look at it. The overall shape of the 08 Forester does resemble the Pilot, but the lower bumper and (yes) the dual exhaust make the Forester look a bit better.
I also love that the window is large and set fairly low. Notice how you can clearly see the entire driver's head rests. Now that's visibility, baby!
This is a long shot but the tires look like Potenza RE92s to me.
The more I see, the more I like.
For Sale: 2002 Legacy L 5 speed, 46k miles. Includes 7/100 Subaru Gold warranty with no deductible, 6CD changer, and aftermarket power moonroof.
Just kidding, not yet. We have to wait until March or so.
Bob
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
I guess since we have another big vehicle that's less of a concern now. We just need enough space for 4-5 and some groceries.
SHOW US THE DARN THING ALREADY.
OK, I feel better now.
Here are my comments:
* those wheels look the same, I like the beefy 5 spoke look
* windows are TINTED, a first for the Forester
* dual exhaust again seen here
* wonderfully boxy shape and big windows,
* rear door appears a lot wider, easier ingress/egress?
* the vehicle as a whole looks a lot bigger, no?
* I doubt the USA will get those window vents
A tad bland but I'm hoping the character comes from the front view of the design, and that would be OK. This is definitely a functional shape, though.
Still lovin' it so far...
The sketch had a drooping roofline, the pic shows the roof stays flat and straight.
It also did not get that Murano-esque D-pillar from the sketch. Nor did it get the sharp crease and concavity in the door panels.
The wheels in the sketch are also way off, more like the Tribeca's.
So if the sketch artist ever actually saw the Forester, you would hope they at least captured the look from the front view (which I happen to like).
Hope so.
Also, the Ota factory in Japan has suposedly been retooled to build the new Forester and also the Exiga MPV on the same line according to some sources.
Bob
Hopefully Subaru will bring it here. Mazda5 has been a sleeper hit for them, and Kia sells the Rondo in that class. Honda is considering bringing the Stream, and Toyota has a Mio X that so far is only offered in Japan.
They bring back the Mini in minivan.
Impreza/Forester
Outback/Tribeca
new Legacy/Exiga wagon
Think about it - 3 distinct platforms to develop non - overlapping product.
I have my car ready to trade in the moment a new larger powerful legacy comes out. 3.6Turbo or bust w/6MT
-mike
2018 430i Gran Coupe