Looks pretty clean. Saw a huge billboard for the new Highlander as I was entering the Lincoln Tunnel (NYC) last night -- man, that is one ugly car, odd bulges in odd places. Maybe it's better in person.
The Forester was a class leader, hopefully this one will be as well and up Subaru sales.
Saw a huge billboard for the new Highlander as I was entering the Lincoln Tunnel (NYC) last night -- man, that is one ugly car, odd bulges in odd places. Maybe it's better in person.
All is good and well, and the new Forester looks decent enough, and I am looking to replace my FXT at the end of 2008. However, if Subaru makes another POS like the current Forester, or does not SERIOUSLY improve the other models (OB, Tribeca), they will lose a two-time customer as I will be shopping other brands.
Subaru - are you listening? The consumers are shopping for REAL CARS, and Subaru keeps coming out with these half baked TOYS, which, of course, results in the continuously shrinking market share. Come on Subaru, give us a REAL CAR for a change!
The current Forester is a POS because it's designed poorly, executed cheaply, and, for the four years and 46,000 miles of ownership has been a very frustrating experience. For passenger comfort, I would rate it close to ZERO on a scale of 1 to 10. Mechanically, it was OK for the first two years, but that aspect is starting to have its shares of problems. I would like to have a car that I can get into, start and just drive, without having to keep adjusting this, fiddle with that, and get frustrated with the third thing.
There are just too many negatives about this vehicle: - Paint quality (easy chips and scratches) - Noise (literally at headache level on concrete highways) - Seats (pain in the [non-permissible content removed] on long drives, and adjustments not sufficient) - Seatbelts (torture tight) - Climate control (total disaster) - Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???) - Center console (hard plastic) - Glove box (not lighted) - Radio (changes volume by itself, or dies once in a blue moon) - Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes) - Frameless windows (wind noise) - Flaky air conditioner (barely able to deal with temps in the 90's) - H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation) - Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..) - Brakes (warped after 7,500 miles) - Tires (Geolanders - downright treacherous in heavy rain even when brand new) - Gas mileage (very poor for such a tiny and light SUV) - Unfixable alignment problem (still pulls slightly to the left, after 3 alignments done, tires changed) - Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps) - Disappearing antifreeze (1-2 OZ every few months, pressure tested, no leaks) - Leak in the exhaust system before the muffler (after the warranty of course) - Strange beeping noise under the hood (after driving through heavy rain) - Other annoyances, too many to list
This car has always been garaged and I have taken immaculate care of it. Still, I have been to the dealer so many times I almost feel I own a Chevy or something. And, after most visits, the problems are still not fixed.
I have owned Japanese cars, and another Subaru (96 Legacy), and have never experienced this much frustration. And no, this car is not a lemon, just a poorly designed and cheaply executed one. This could be my very last Subaru if they don't get their act together. :sick:
Frameless windows- Never hear any wind noise in any of mine, and you had a '96 Legacy, which has the same frameless windows, so not sure why this is an issue.
Seatbelts tightness- I'm 300lbs and they aren't even tight on me, so not sure how that could be a problem
Footwell room- These are small cars, unfortunately there is nothing that is going to change that fact until SOA makes a bigger car on the tribecca platform. Again foot-room should be at least as good as your 96 Legacy.
Manual Tranny- 1st gear on subies is only for starting out from a dead stop, my guess is you are trying to get into 1st gear while moving, just not happening on subarus.
Red Gauges- Most people actually like them, so unfortunately you are in a minority here.
Lighted Glovebox- move up to an Outback Tribeca or Legacy and you'll get a lighted glove box. The Forester isn't a highline trim so why would you expect a glove box light?
Flakey A/C- I've owned a ton of subies, all of them including my 05 works well in NYC Humid summers 90 degrees + and humid.
If the car was such a disaster, then I guess perhaps you should look for a more perfect car with real AWD, unfortunately there are no other mini-utes out there that offer this nor do they offer a MT either.
I have lighted compartment in my '02 WRX. He ownes XT trim of Forester, roughly same price, after rebates. So why shouldn't he expect one in his?
However, from all the issues that listed, I see one that is real - the alignment and brakes seem real. Pulling to one side should not be happening - and rotors should last longer. I suspect there was something faulty in that unit. I had my brake pads lasting 65K and could go longer is not rotors that needed to be machined.
The rest looks more-less subjective. I could also see the road noise, as Impreza line is known for its noisyness and Forster is probably not far off that being on the same chassis. Seats and legroom. That was something that one should check before buying a car. Any seat works for one and doesn't for another. After WRX seats almost anything feels terrible to me, so I can actually empathize with that one. On climate control - not sure. In FL even after hours of seating in the Sun, the car surfaces cool down pretty quickly - minute or two and nothing burns you skin. So it can't be that bad. However, I have never needed freezing inside so can't say what somebody setting their house at 68 would say about the Subaru's AC.
Also in all the years I've been working on Subarus, I've never ever seen a set of warped rotors. Pad deposits in the rotors, yes, but NEVER a warped rotor. I suspect that what the OP thought was a warped rotor was in fact a rotor with pad deposits.
Exterior looks nice, but a bit boring / generic. The juvenile hood scoop / air brake is finally gone, replaced by a more subtle and tasteful intake. Interior looks a little weird - why is the rear seat so much higher than the front?
The rear view is generic, but the profile is a little more interesting and I really like the front/side view, especially the complex headlights.
I bet they keep the hood scoop for the turbo models. We're probably seeing normally aspirated ones.
The high rear seat is called "stadium seating", it's so the people in the rear have a good view and don't get car sick. It also creates more leg room because it leaves a deep foot well. It changes your seating position to create more room.
Personally, the more I see the more I like it.
I like those rims, I prefer the black/mesh grille so I hope that makes it here, it looks less Chrysler-ish than the other one.
why is the rear seat so much higher than the front?
"Stadium seating" allows better visibility for rear seat passengers.
(I like it!) james
edit - dang it, juice beat me to it. (I should have expected that). I still like the overall design. Yes, it is a bit "derivative", but at least it's not offensive, as Subies have sometimes been.
I also prefer the mesh grill, with the free-floating subie emblem and the narrower, chrome surround on top... (it looks a little Ford-ish). I'll bet that we get the "new corporate-face" version with the emblem integrated into the upper grill surround, (which looks a little Camry-ish) :P
My brakes started jerking my steering wheel at about 50K. First at higher speeds only when gentle braking applies, over time it was getting worse. I got them machined w/new pads at 67K. Probably shouldn't have waited that long, but I'm too much a cheapskate to do it at first sign of trouble.
The new Forester has a nice look. The back end reminds me of the Pilot, the front end looks like Grand-Vitara-meets-Ford-something, and the whole thing adopts the family look like the new Impreza. Definitely not offensive, which as someone mentioned before, is always a distant danger with Subaru.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think the current Forester is rather ugly, hence my OB. Based on the few images I've seen I'd say the new one is light years ahead of the current one as far as styling.
I mainly went with my '06 Outback over Forester due to refinement/quality (better materials, design, etc.) and a bit more room. Looks like those differences will be essentially eliminated, at least 'til the 2010 Legacy/Outback hits. I'm eager to see angle of departure/approach numbers and official fuel economy ratings. From the sounds of it, Forester is going to remain an outstanding value in its class... hope the US dollar doesn't impact that too much. Love the front of the red one in this photo... w/the grille, bumper underguard & mirror on the corner, it feels like a retro sport ute. I think on the XT I'd prefer the other grille, though.
Um, every single SUV out now has this style seating. I have it in the 3rd row of my Armada and folks sitting back there comment on how great it is. Same goes for almost all the other Utes out there, it just makes sense to do it, so why complain about it? Especially when you haven't even sat in it yet!
Good work Bob on turning up those images! Looks great!
Give it a chance, Samiam. No sense fretting over it 'til you've had a chance to sit in it in 3 months or so. I've always felt like I'm sitting in a bit of a hole when I'm in the back of our friends' '05 Forester.
In the top pic, you see the old one in the top corner right next to the new one. The new one definitely looks more modern, yet it's still an evolution of the Forester.
The hood scoop stays, likely on the turbos.
Note the Sportshift auto trans.
Look at the chassis cutaway - look how compact that rear suspension is, wow!
I see an SI drive button, too. Wonder which models get it? Did the Impreza get this?
Very wide cargo area, as I'd hoped for. Depth looks to be about the same as the current one.
Like that extending arm rest, but the cup holders are too far back, and under the arm rest.
Check out that cool rear/center bin for the kids. I'd love one of those. Hope that makes it to the US models.
I much prefer the silver one, both that grille and the way the tails blend in with the body look better to my eyes.
Check out the LL Bean-like plastic cargo liner, so that model should stay. I hope so, because the equipment level on that is perfect for us. Add just a GPS Navigation system, and even then maybe. Keep that self-leveling rear suspension.
I really do not like that drab olive color at all.
Brochure says 16" and 17" rims. I like those 17"s a lot, please keep 'em!
The 2.0XS model, sans roof rack and hood scoop, actually looks a bit plain. Maybe it's that dark color, almost black.
I see two dashes - one blue and one white. I prefer the blue one, though I wonder if one is day mode, the other night mode, on the same panel?
Note the big pic of the seats makes the rear seats look much higher, yet the photo right below it shows them level? I wonder if you can adjust the seat height? Or is these are different models? They look very different.
Moonroof is still big, but not quite as big? I'd guesstimate that's about 30"x30" square. The outgoing one is longer.
"Note the big pic of the seats makes the rear seats look much higher, yet the photo right below it shows them level?"
I don't think that even with stadium seating it is possible for the back seats to be as much higher than the front seats as they appear in that one photo. I think there is something going on with the camera angle in that shot.
I, like you, prefer the blue dash. I think you must be right that the blue is the same gauge at night.
Do you think all trims will get the Sportshift auto, or just the turbos? I ask because the guy who is debating when to buy his Forester is an automatic buyer and likes the shift-em-yourself automatics...
He won't be buying a turbo, that's for sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My guess is that the engine/tranny choices here will mirror that of the new Impreza, so that would mean yes, all automatics will likely have a sport-shift feature.
The wife wants an automatic this time, her first. The MD-VA bridge commute eroded her patience.
If I can dream, I also want a 5 speed. Honda and Toyota offer those. Heck, Mitsu is up to 6 ratios. C'mon Subaru!
This is funny - she said no turbo, because she always ends up getting speeding tickets in quick cars!
So our ideal Forester would have:
* 5EAT SportShift * heated, perforated leather seats * large moonroof * GPS Nav with backup cam (may be overkill) * improved range (bigger tank, better mileage, or both) * tow package * tinted windows * those 17" alloys in the photos
I think we'll get something pretty close. I'm willing to sacrifice one or two things on that list, but hopefully not more than that.
>Manual Tranny- 1st gear on subies is only for starting out from a dead stop, my guess is you are trying to get into 1st gear while moving, just not happening on subarus.
The trick to avoid the grinding is to double clutch - depress clutch, put gear lever in neutral, release clutch pedal, blip the throttle, depress the clutch & move the gear lever into first. This is done in about 1 second of time. Had think about that for a few minutes since I automatically do that with my '98 OBW ( way back when, did gymkana's in parking lots and on closed streets, and timed rallies (never exceed the speed limit :shades: )
Also if the gear shift lever baulks at going into 1st when at a "dead" stop, with the clutch pedal depressed "pop" the lever through the first part of the "gate" into reverse, then put the lever into first. This works 99% of the time for me. (some "old farts" have been around enough to gain "special" knowledge. Let me tell you about a clutch plate rusted to a fly wheel..... :P )
The ratio though for some (a lot) of the newer subies really doesn't allow 1st gear to be entered at anything faster than a standstill, double clutching or not. It's not that big a deal since there is plenty of torque in 2nd gear if you are rolling.
- Paint quality (easy chips and scratches) - Noise (literally at headache level on concrete highways) - Seats (pain in the [non-permissible content removed] on long drives, and adjustments not sufficient) - Seatbelts (torture tight) - Climate control (total disaster) - Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???) - Center console (hard plastic) - Glove box (not lighted) - Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes) - Frameless windows (wind noise) - Flaky air conditioner (barely able to deal with temps in the 90's) - H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation) - Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..) - Gas mileage (very poor for such a tiny and light SUV) - Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps)
I am not saying Forester is perfect. If you had done your homework right, you could have discovered these issues prior to your purchase. Your ownership experience is a combination of few problems with the vehicle and the wrong choice you made that did not meet your needs.
If you had done your homework right, you could have discovered these issues prior to your purchase.
I test drove this and other Foresters four times. I read all forums on Edmunds and some other sites. Nothing could have prepared me for what I have come to experience with this car. I guess I was used to Japanese cars just working right. My bad for having reasonable expectations.
The ratio though for some (a lot) of the newer subies really doesn't allow 1st gear to be entered at anything faster than a standstill, double clutching or not. It's not that big a deal since there is plenty of torque in 2nd gear if you are rolling.
My Forester tranny was shifting fine when new. 1st gear at 15 MPH - no problem. Problems started after the 30,000 mile service. Turns out, the best fluid to put in a Subie manual tranny is the OEM Subaru fluid. Part number K0323AA093. That allows easy shifting into first up to 15 MPH and very smooth shifting in all other gears. After taking it to the dealer 3 times, having the regional rep look at it, having a case opened with Subaru, calling about 20 other dealers, no dealer in the NY tri-state area carries this fluid, everyone uses generic. The only way to get it is to order a five gallon drum from one dealer in Georgia. I think I'll pass. I will suffer with this and other annoyances until this car is gone. Hopefully a year from now.
"So our ideal Forester would have: * 5EAT SportShift * heated, perforated leather seats * large moonroof * GPS Nav with backup cam (may be overkill) * improved range (bigger tank, better mileage, or both) * tow package * tinted windows * those 17" alloys in the photos"
Only things I think you'll miss out on are the 5EAT & perforated leather. Everything so far has pointed to 4EAT and since they dropped perforated leather from the Tribeca, I bet it won't be on Forester either. Impreza's tank gained 1 gallon and MPG improved slightly, so it'd make sense that'd be the same for Forester. Did you notice the backup cam on one of the early spy shots of the rear?
I test drove this and other Foresters four times. I read all forums on Edmunds and some other sites.
Not to get too wise, but where were your eyes and ears wandering that you did not notice the following:
- Seatbelts (torture tight) - Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???) - Center console (hard plastic) - Glove box (not lighted) - Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes) - Frameless windows (wind noise) - H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation) - Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..)
To other issues, most people actually buy this car for their horizontally opposed engines, as they consider the sound beautiful, especially when combined with the wistle of the turbocharger. Frameless windows are mentioned in almost every review, as they are unique - and everybody knows their problems, too. Gas mileage on XT is poor and everybody knew it - Subaru makes no secret of it either so that was easy to pick up. It's the fastest small SUV out there (first year model year was faster that 2.0 WRX in 0-60 test). What do you think it was coming from? Water vapors?
Of The rest:
- Paint quality (easy chips and scratches) - can't comment on that as ones expectations can be different. Mine is not chipping at all other than front which I would expect after 4 years of subjecting to flying small projectiles and lovebugs. - Climate control (total disaster) - that might be true for your car. BTW do you set your home for high seventies or sixties? - Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..) :surprise: I have short throw shifter and don't find it notchy.
- Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps). That could be a problem. Again, might be just yours as we would not see as many Subarus in northern states.
So yes - you had problems with quality. You mentioned rotors and some othe annoyances. I wouldn't like it either. But majority of your issues that you list as reasons to hate the car coulda/shoulda/woulda be picked up if you were trully looking at the car when selecting. Perhaps the outgoing Forester, especially in XT trim was simply not for you for reasons not really related to quality, but to expectations?
Paint? Environmental regs have affected paint quality for the entire industry, not just Subaru.
Car & Driver put the Forester in two differnet comparison tests. In both cases the Forester was the quietest in the test. Small SUVs are not known for low noise levels, and the Forester is one of the better ones, actually.
I loved my Forester's seats, and still miss them actually. The Sienna's seats are a bit too soft. I'd pick the Forester's seats over my Miata's leather or my Sienna's cloth. We're all shaped differently, so this is a matter of personal fit.
Seatbelts? No complaints from us, how are they even any different than anyone else's? :confuse:
Auto climate control is a mess, there I agree. It was improved slightly but I think this is an area Subaru would be wise to simply outsource to Toyota's suppliers.
Gauge visibility - red is supposedly less straining on the eyes. BMW uses red lighting for this reason.
Hard plastic center console is again, par for the price class. My '98 could have used more padding for the elbow rests but I think '03 and later models were better. Tribeca is much better here, so I expect the 09 Forester to improve.
Who uses soft-touch plastic on the center console, though? Nobody that I can think of. Even Audi only puts soft touch plastics on interior materials that are above the belt line. The rest is all hard plastic.
Glove box is not lit in this price class. Spend more and you'll get a lit one. I doubt most competitors have this. My Sienna doesn't. Just use a map light.
Footwell room should improve with the new model, I bet 1st and 2nd row get more leg room. I felt my '98 had tons of front leg room, personally, more than competitors.
Frameless windows are gone, we know that already. I'll miss the thin pillars and wonderful visibility they allowed, though.
A/C is the same as auto climate control, but for us the A/C was more than powerful enough in all conditions. Tinted windows will help the '09.
H4 engine is what Subaru is all about. Take that away and you have a characterless, generic in-line 4. Big 4s will always shake.
Manual transmission - don't complain, at least they offer one! Honda and Toyota surrendered, Subaru wins.
Gas mileage is near best in class, only the hybrids do any better. CR has the Forester on its most fuel efficient list. What did you expect, really?
Weak battery - there I agree. I replaced my OE battery with one that had nearly twice the cold cranking amps.
Bottom line here is you simply have to spend a lot more money to get everything you want, and even then you won't get it all.
I can't believe you didn't list stability control and side curtain air bags. Those are the things that are glaringly missing that competitors in this price class have.
So VDC, SAC, 5EAT, and window frames, plus a bit more room, are reasonable things to ask for.
Good news is it looks like the 09 Forester is getting all of those.
The one glaring omission is the 4EAT, 5 ratios are overdue.
Some of those would not apply to XT trim. It actually does have a subpar gas mileage and at mid-high twenties lit glove box is actually expected. If they could get it on '02 WRX, they should get it on Forester XT with higher sticker price.
Is the AC that bad? I live in FL and never felt like had a problem. Of course, Forester's volume is sizably larger, so it's possible the compressor can't make it there.
Not to get too wise, but where were your eyes and ears wandering that you did not notice the following:
- Seatbelts (torture tight) Didn't notice that during the 10-15 minute test drives. The cars I drove still had plastic on the seats, so getting a true reading of seat comfort was questionable at best.
- Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???) Red needles on the FXT are invisible during daytime with sunglasses on if driving through tunnels or underpasses. Didn't encounter such conditions during my test drives.
- Center console (hard plastic) Didn't pay too much attention at the time. Again, everything inside was still wrapped in plastic.
- Glove box (not lighted) Seriously - who checks to see if the glove box is lighted? Every car I ever had had a lighted glove box. Even my 1980 Chevy Malibu had one.
- Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes) I was car shopping during June, July, and August. Not wearing winter boots at the time.
- Frameless windows (wind noise) No wind noise during test drive or initially. Developed over the course of two years. My 96 Legacy never had wind noise - I had it for 7 years. My two Supras, and my Lexus ES 300 all had frameless windows, and no wind noise.
- H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation) The rough idle is occasional. I noticed it when I test drove the XS, but the XT was smooth as butter during the test drive. That's one of the reasons I chose the XT over the XS.
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..) Transmission was fine until the 30,000 mile service. See my other post on this.
I wonder if that will hold true here too? With the Outback, we get a larger 225 tire, whereas the the rest of the world gets a smaller 215 tire. With the Forester, we've always gotten the same size tire as the rest of the world.
I think most test drives are too short. If you're ready to buy, I'd suggest a 2nd, longer test drive after the dealership performs the PDI. This can be a bit tough. 24 hour test drives are good for this reason - or ask dealers if they have a demo.
If you drive in a tunnel I'd suggest removing sunglasses.
I have the same issue with my Garmins, though, if I wear glasses it's hard to see the GPS screen. I wear them less often for that reason.
The window angle can be adjusted if you have wind noise. Someone opened an Outback door and took pics and actually showed us how. Pretty cool.
The turbo engine is a bit smoother, I noticed that too.
Just curious if there have been any more murmors regarding direct injection in future Subie engines:
Would be nice if the '10 Outback turbo gained that, to further spread out its torque curve and improve mileage.
In all honesty, lack of direct injection is one reason I'm a little hesitant to commit to an '08 Outback XT (it's not __that__ fast for the amount of gas it uses).
The bias is only 55/45 in automatic transmission, so it's not that much. Tailhappyness is actually a good thing for many people and I bet you it's not as big anyway. CU people would want to have a nanny and guard dog installed on every vehicle. I take their quality and utility comments, but their subjective preferences are not mine.
Comments
The Forester was a class leader, hopefully this one will be as well and up Subaru sales.
It's not.
Subaru - are you listening? The consumers are shopping for REAL CARS, and Subaru keeps coming out with these half baked TOYS, which, of course, results in the continuously shrinking market share. Come on Subaru, give us a REAL CAR for a change!
There are just too many negatives about this vehicle:
- Paint quality (easy chips and scratches)
- Noise (literally at headache level on concrete highways)
- Seats (pain in the [non-permissible content removed] on long drives, and adjustments not sufficient)
- Seatbelts (torture tight)
- Climate control (total disaster)
- Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???)
- Center console (hard plastic)
- Glove box (not lighted)
- Radio (changes volume by itself, or dies once in a blue moon)
- Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes)
- Frameless windows (wind noise)
- Flaky air conditioner (barely able to deal with temps in the 90's)
- H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation)
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..)
- Brakes (warped after 7,500 miles)
- Tires (Geolanders - downright treacherous in heavy rain even when brand new)
- Gas mileage (very poor for such a tiny and light SUV)
- Unfixable alignment problem (still pulls slightly to the left, after 3 alignments done, tires changed)
- Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps)
- Disappearing antifreeze (1-2 OZ every few months, pressure tested, no leaks)
- Leak in the exhaust system before the muffler (after the warranty of course)
- Strange beeping noise under the hood (after driving through heavy rain)
- Other annoyances, too many to list
This car has always been garaged and I have taken immaculate care of it. Still, I have been to the dealer so many times I almost feel I own a Chevy or something. And, after most visits, the problems are still not fixed.
I have owned Japanese cars, and another Subaru (96 Legacy), and have never experienced this much frustration. And no, this car is not a lemon, just a poorly designed and cheaply executed one. This could be my very last Subaru if they don't get their act together.
:sick:
Frameless windows- Never hear any wind noise in any of mine, and you had a '96 Legacy, which has the same frameless windows, so not sure why this is an issue.
Seatbelts tightness- I'm 300lbs and they aren't even tight on me, so not sure how that could be a problem
Footwell room- These are small cars, unfortunately there is nothing that is going to change that fact until SOA makes a bigger car on the tribecca platform. Again foot-room should be at least as good as your 96 Legacy.
Manual Tranny- 1st gear on subies is only for starting out from a dead stop, my guess is you are trying to get into 1st gear while moving, just not happening on subarus.
Red Gauges- Most people actually like them, so unfortunately you are in a minority here.
Lighted Glovebox- move up to an Outback Tribeca or Legacy and you'll get a lighted glove box. The Forester isn't a highline trim so why would you expect a glove box light?
Flakey A/C- I've owned a ton of subies, all of them including my 05 works well in NYC Humid summers 90 degrees + and humid.
If the car was such a disaster, then I guess perhaps you should look for a more perfect car with real AWD, unfortunately there are no other mini-utes out there that offer this nor do they offer a MT either.
-mike
However, from all the issues that listed, I see one that is real - the alignment and brakes seem real. Pulling to one side should not be happening - and rotors should last longer. I suspect there was something faulty in that unit. I had my brake pads lasting 65K and could go longer is not rotors that needed to be machined.
The rest looks more-less subjective. I could also see the road noise, as Impreza line is known for its noisyness and Forster is probably not far off that being on the same chassis. Seats and legroom. That was something that one should check before buying a car. Any seat works for one and doesn't for another. After WRX seats almost anything feels terrible to me, so I can actually empathize with that one. On climate control - not sure. In FL even after hours of seating in the Sun, the car surfaces cool down pretty quickly - minute or two and nothing burns you skin. So it can't be that bad. However, I have never needed freezing inside so can't say what somebody setting their house at 68 would say about the Subaru's AC.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
Bob
I bet they keep the hood scoop for the turbo models. We're probably seeing normally aspirated ones.
The high rear seat is called "stadium seating", it's so the people in the rear have a good view and don't get car sick. It also creates more leg room because it leaves a deep foot well. It changes your seating position to create more room.
Personally, the more I see the more I like it.
I like those rims, I prefer the black/mesh grille so I hope that makes it here, it looks less Chrysler-ish than the other one.
Definitely lookin' good.
"Stadium seating" allows better visibility for rear seat passengers.
(I like it!)
james
edit - dang it, juice beat me to it. (I should have expected that). I still like the overall design. Yes, it is a bit "derivative", but at least it's not offensive, as Subies have sometimes been.
james
The seats themselves look nicely padded, too. Shaped for 2, which is OK for us, since we'll use the van when we need more space.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Love the front of the red one in this photo... w/the grille, bumper underguard & mirror on the corner, it feels like a retro sport ute.
Good work Bob on turning up those images! Looks great!
-mike
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
In the top pic, you see the old one in the top corner right next to the new one. The new one definitely looks more modern, yet it's still an evolution of the Forester.
The hood scoop stays, likely on the turbos.
Note the Sportshift auto trans.
Look at the chassis cutaway - look how compact that rear suspension is, wow!
I see an SI drive button, too. Wonder which models get it? Did the Impreza get this?
Very wide cargo area, as I'd hoped for. Depth looks to be about the same as the current one.
Like that extending arm rest, but the cup holders are too far back, and under the arm rest.
Check out that cool rear/center bin for the kids. I'd love one of those. Hope that makes it to the US models.
I much prefer the silver one, both that grille and the way the tails blend in with the body look better to my eyes.
Check out the LL Bean-like plastic cargo liner, so that model should stay. I hope so, because the equipment level on that is perfect for us. Add just a GPS Navigation system, and even then maybe. Keep that self-leveling rear suspension.
I really do not like that drab olive color at all.
Brochure says 16" and 17" rims. I like those 17"s a lot, please keep 'em!
The 2.0XS model, sans roof rack and hood scoop, actually looks a bit plain. Maybe it's that dark color, almost black.
I see two dashes - one blue and one white. I prefer the blue one, though I wonder if one is day mode, the other night mode, on the same panel?
Note the big pic of the seats makes the rear seats look much higher, yet the photo right below it shows them level? I wonder if you can adjust the seat height? Or is these are different models? They look very different.
Moonroof is still big, but not quite as big? I'd guesstimate that's about 30"x30" square. The outgoing one is longer.
Where's Ken to translate anything interesting?
I don't think that even with stadium seating it is possible for the back seats to be as much higher than the front seats as they appear in that one photo. I think there is something going on with the camera angle in that shot.
I, like you, prefer the blue dash. I think you must be right that the blue is the same gauge at night.
Do you think all trims will get the Sportshift auto, or just the turbos? I ask because the guy who is debating when to buy his Forester is an automatic buyer and likes the shift-em-yourself automatics...
He won't be buying a turbo, that's for sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
The wife wants an automatic this time, her first. The MD-VA bridge commute eroded her patience.
If I can dream, I also want a 5 speed. Honda and Toyota offer those. Heck, Mitsu is up to 6 ratios. C'mon Subaru!
This is funny - she said no turbo, because she always ends up getting speeding tickets in quick cars!
So our ideal Forester would have:
* 5EAT SportShift
* heated, perforated leather seats
* large moonroof
* GPS Nav with backup cam (may be overkill)
* improved range (bigger tank, better mileage, or both)
* tow package
* tinted windows
* those 17" alloys in the photos
I think we'll get something pretty close. I'm willing to sacrifice one or two things on that list, but hopefully not more than that.
The trick to avoid the grinding is to double clutch - depress clutch, put gear lever in neutral, release clutch pedal, blip the throttle, depress the clutch & move the gear lever into first. This is done in about 1 second of time. Had think about that for a few minutes since I automatically do that with my '98 OBW ( way back when, did gymkana's in parking lots and on closed streets, and timed rallies (never exceed the speed limit :shades: )
Also if the gear shift lever baulks at going into 1st when at a "dead" stop, with the clutch pedal depressed "pop" the lever through the first part of the "gate" into reverse, then put the lever into first. This works 99% of the time for me. (some "old farts" have been around enough to gain "special" knowledge. Let me tell you about a clutch plate rusted to a fly wheel..... :P )
MNSteve
-mike
- Paint quality (easy chips and scratches)
- Noise (literally at headache level on concrete highways)
- Seats (pain in the [non-permissible content removed] on long drives, and adjustments not sufficient)
- Seatbelts (torture tight)
- Climate control (total disaster)
- Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???)
- Center console (hard plastic)
- Glove box (not lighted)
- Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes)
- Frameless windows (wind noise)
- Flaky air conditioner (barely able to deal with temps in the 90's)
- H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation)
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..)
- Gas mileage (very poor for such a tiny and light SUV)
- Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps)
I am not saying Forester is perfect. If you had done your homework right, you could have discovered these issues prior to your purchase. Your ownership experience is a combination of few problems with the vehicle and the wrong choice you made that did not meet your needs.
I test drove this and other Foresters four times. I read all forums on Edmunds and some other sites. Nothing could have prepared me for what I have come to experience with this car. I guess I was used to Japanese cars just working right. My bad for having reasonable expectations.
My Forester tranny was shifting fine when new. 1st gear at 15 MPH - no problem. Problems started after the 30,000 mile service. Turns out, the best fluid to put in a Subie manual tranny is the OEM Subaru fluid. Part number K0323AA093. That allows easy shifting into first up to 15 MPH and very smooth shifting in all other gears. After taking it to the dealer 3 times, having the regional rep look at it, having a case opened with Subaru, calling about 20 other dealers, no dealer in the NY tri-state area carries this fluid, everyone uses generic. The only way to get it is to order a five gallon drum from one dealer in Georgia. I think I'll pass. I will suffer with this and other annoyances until this car is gone. Hopefully a year from now.
* 5EAT SportShift
* heated, perforated leather seats
* large moonroof
* GPS Nav with backup cam (may be overkill)
* improved range (bigger tank, better mileage, or both)
* tow package
* tinted windows
* those 17" alloys in the photos"
Only things I think you'll miss out on are the 5EAT & perforated leather. Everything so far has pointed to 4EAT
Not to get too wise, but where were your eyes and ears wandering that you did not notice the following:
- Seatbelts (torture tight)
- Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???)
- Center console (hard plastic)
- Glove box (not lighted)
- Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes)
- Frameless windows (wind noise)
- H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation)
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..)
To other issues, most people actually buy this car for their horizontally opposed engines, as they consider the sound beautiful, especially when combined with the wistle of the turbocharger. Frameless windows are mentioned in almost every review, as they are unique - and everybody knows their problems, too. Gas mileage on XT is poor and everybody knew it - Subaru makes no secret of it either so that was easy to pick up. It's the fastest small SUV out there (first year model year was faster that 2.0 WRX in 0-60 test). What do you think it was coming from? Water vapors?
Of The rest:
- Paint quality (easy chips and scratches) - can't comment on that as ones expectations can be different. Mine is not chipping at all other than front which I would expect after 4 years of subjecting to flying small projectiles and lovebugs.
- Climate control (total disaster) - that might be true for your car. BTW do you set your home for high seventies or sixties?
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..) :surprise: I have short throw shifter and don't find it notchy.
- Weak battery (very slow cranking in cold temps). That could be a problem. Again, might be just yours as we would not see as many Subarus in northern states.
So yes - you had problems with quality. You mentioned rotors and some othe annoyances. I wouldn't like it either. But majority of your issues that you list as reasons to hate the car coulda/shoulda/woulda be picked up if you were trully looking at the car when selecting. Perhaps the outgoing Forester, especially in XT trim was simply not for you for reasons not really related to quality, but to expectations?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Paint? Environmental regs have affected paint quality for the entire industry, not just Subaru.
Car & Driver put the Forester in two differnet comparison tests. In both cases the Forester was the quietest in the test. Small SUVs are not known for low noise levels, and the Forester is one of the better ones, actually.
I loved my Forester's seats, and still miss them actually. The Sienna's seats are a bit too soft. I'd pick the Forester's seats over my Miata's leather or my Sienna's cloth. We're all shaped differently, so this is a matter of personal fit.
Seatbelts? No complaints from us, how are they even any different than anyone else's? :confuse:
Auto climate control is a mess, there I agree. It was improved slightly but I think this is an area Subaru would be wise to simply outsource to Toyota's suppliers.
Gauge visibility - red is supposedly less straining on the eyes. BMW uses red lighting for this reason.
Hard plastic center console is again, par for the price class. My '98 could have used more padding for the elbow rests but I think '03 and later models were better. Tribeca is much better here, so I expect the 09 Forester to improve.
Who uses soft-touch plastic on the center console, though? Nobody that I can think of. Even Audi only puts soft touch plastics on interior materials that are above the belt line. The rest is all hard plastic.
Glove box is not lit in this price class. Spend more and you'll get a lit one. I doubt most competitors have this. My Sienna doesn't. Just use a map light.
Footwell room should improve with the new model, I bet 1st and 2nd row get more leg room. I felt my '98 had tons of front leg room, personally, more than competitors.
Frameless windows are gone, we know that already. I'll miss the thin pillars and wonderful visibility they allowed, though.
A/C is the same as auto climate control, but for us the A/C was more than powerful enough in all conditions. Tinted windows will help the '09.
H4 engine is what Subaru is all about. Take that away and you have a characterless, generic in-line 4. Big 4s will always shake.
Manual transmission - don't complain, at least they offer one! Honda and Toyota surrendered, Subaru wins.
Gas mileage is near best in class, only the hybrids do any better. CR has the Forester on its most fuel efficient list. What did you expect, really?
Weak battery - there I agree. I replaced my OE battery with one that had nearly twice the cold cranking amps.
Bottom line here is you simply have to spend a lot more money to get everything you want, and even then you won't get it all.
So VDC, SAC, 5EAT, and window frames, plus a bit more room, are reasonable things to ask for.
Good news is it looks like the 09 Forester is getting all of those.
The one glaring omission is the 4EAT, 5 ratios are overdue.
Is the AC that bad? I live in FL and never felt like had a problem. Of course, Forester's volume is sizably larger, so it's possible the compressor can't make it there.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2009s appear to have factory tint, so this issue is likely history as well.
XT mileage was poor at first, but what do you expect for a vehicle that can hit 60mph in 5.3 seconds in Car & Driver?
Name a quicker car that can haul as much and is more efficient. Doesn't exist.
They relaxed the gearing a bit, a year or two later, and the taller final drive improved mileage.
That plus a bigger gas tank for 2009 should address the mileage/range issue. Let's see how they gear it.
I've never owned a car with a glove box light, so I guess I don't see what I'm missing. We just use the reading light.
- Seatbelts (torture tight)
Didn't notice that during the 10-15 minute test drives. The cars I drove still had plastic on the seats, so getting a true reading of seat comfort was questionable at best.
- Gauge visibility (red needles - WTF???)
Red needles on the FXT are invisible during daytime with sunglasses on if driving through tunnels or underpasses. Didn't encounter such conditions during my test drives.
- Center console (hard plastic)
Didn't pay too much attention at the time. Again, everything inside was still wrapped in plastic.
- Glove box (not lighted)
Seriously - who checks to see if the glove box is lighted? Every car I ever had had a lighted glove box. Even my 1980 Chevy Malibu had one.
- Footwell room (I have small feet and still find it tight with boots or squared shoes)
I was car shopping during June, July, and August. Not wearing winter boots at the time.
- Frameless windows (wind noise)
No wind noise during test drive or initially. Developed over the course of two years. My 96 Legacy never had wind noise - I had it for 7 years. My two Supras, and my Lexus ES 300 all had frameless windows, and no wind noise.
- H-4 engine (rough idle / occasional hesitation)
The rough idle is occasional. I noticed it when I test drove the XS, but the XT was smooth as butter during the test drive. That's one of the reasons I chose the XT over the XS.
- Manual Transmission (very notchy, especially trying to get into 1st grrrrind..)
Transmission was fine until the 30,000 mile service. See my other post on this.
Old = 215/60x16
New = 225/55x17
Old = 215/55x17
I wonder if that will hold true here too? With the Outback, we get a larger 225 tire, whereas the the rest of the world gets a smaller 215 tire. With the Forester, we've always gotten the same size tire as the rest of the world.
Bob
If you drive in a tunnel I'd suggest removing sunglasses.
I have the same issue with my Garmins, though, if I wear glasses it's hard to see the GPS screen. I wear them less often for that reason.
The window angle can be adjusted if you have wind noise. Someone opened an Outback door and took pics and actually showed us how. Pretty cool.
The turbo engine is a bit smoother, I noticed that too.
For the gearbox, I suggest fresh gear oil.
Generally I don't like tall profile tires, so I'd rather not get the 65s.
Hopefully they offer the 17"s on non-turbo models as well.
Would be nice if the '10 Outback turbo gained that, to further spread out its torque curve and improve mileage.
In all honesty, lack of direct injection is one reason I'm a little hesitant to commit to an '08 Outback XT (it's not __that__ fast for the amount of gas it uses).
Outbacks seem to be tail happy (per CU and other tests I've read), and I wonder if its bias towards Rear wheels might be a contributor?
Or might it be the rear suspension itself needs updating (Impreza went to double wishbone this year and that helped that model's handling) ?
2018 430i Gran Coupe