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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    But as I said in my original "Subaru Trailer" post, if Subaru doesn't offer brakes with the trailer, they might as well forget about it. They would have to offer something that is not already available, and that is better than what is already out there.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    of having a Subaru-approved trailer, would be that Subaru could design a small brake-adjustment switch (assuming electric brakes are used) to fit into one of the "blank" accessory spots on the dash, down near the foglamps, etc. It could be a simple rocker-type switch with a "+" for more braking power and a "-" for less braking power.

    Current aftermarket electric brake controls look like they came from Pep Boys; really pretty tacky looking.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Now you ring a bell Drew. I remembered the $1500 price tag and the bumper and exhaust removal but forgot about the rear bumper shocks being removed. That's a funny situation. All I know is $120 + 15-20minutes I had my 5Klb hitching installed on my Trooper :)

    -mike
  • soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    check this out..scroll down to Subie..pure conjecture? Patti, care to comment? (off the record of course!)

    http://www.motortrend.com/future/2003_2.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll chime in on the ST-X tow rating: I say 2000# unbraked, 3500# braked. So put me in as 2000/3500.

    Volvo may tow 3300 pounds, but VW doesn't rate the Passat to tow at all. So it is possible to survive (thrive, even) with little/no towing.

    I saw a Ranchero in Orlando at that cruise in. Pretty wild, but ultimately 2 seats limit the market too much. The ST-X has true potential.

    Bob: I doubt the Camry would get the V6 from the 4Runner, IIRC that is a truck engine. It could get the more powerful V6 from the Highlander, though.

    Also, they can't bore out the H6 - the spacing is already very narrow. Stroke maybe, but even that may require a wider track.

    I like small cars, so I like the idea of brilliant engineering as opposed to making a bigger and heavier Legacy. Give us a folding 3rd seat, compact rear suspensions, clever mid-gates on the ST-X, that kind of thing.

    GM trannies may be great overall, but dad's Olds Custom Cruiser was awful. When you came to a stop it stayed in 2nd unless you gave it some gas. Then it surged forward. Kind of embarassing on a date (don't ask...).

    Yes - I rode the Kraken coaster at Sea World and it was nothing compared to co-piloting for paisan in that gimmick Rally.

    I think the trailer sales idea is a bit much for a small franchise like Subaru, but maybe a marketing partnerships would work. They do sell Igloo coolers, Yakima racks, LL Bean gear and Purolator oil filters.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I saw that last Friday and have been meaning to post something. Yeah, a few US and Japanese are reporting on a possible SVX.

    MT has some of their dates wrong though. They say the ST-X and redesigned Forester will be 2002's. They'll actually be 03 models (unless they're referring to calendar year).

    Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Juice, I am quite confident they can increase the displacement of the H6 a bit if they wanted/needed to. It would make no sense to sink all that R&D time into an engine that debuts at its "max" design displacement, unless it debuts at a (comparatively) large displacement and subsequent smaller displacement models are offered.

    The EJ series flat four is used for everything from 1.6 to 2.5 liter.

    -Colin
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    They did it for the 2.5 in 97(??) from 155 to 165. Maybe they'll tweak the H6 to 230hp like the old SVX 3.3L.
    Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Oh I doubt 230HP would be any problem at all, with a corresponding increase in torque, if they increased displacement to 3.3L.

    Whoops, left a thought off my previous post. My point about the EZ30 was that since they already have a 2.5L four, it would make little sense to consider the six cylinder for smaller displacements.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    MT makes no reference to a new Forester or a turbo Legacy.

    Anybody care to start a pool as to when the next round of Subies arrive? Here's my bet:

    MY '02
    With the exception of the Outback VDC sedan, I think we've pretty much seen all that' new for '02.

    MY '03
    Legacy/Outback
    Introduced at next Detroit show in January. In showrooms next March. Legacy GT to get DOHC 2.5 w/variable valve-timing, and with a moderate-boost turbo version of that engine too.

    Forester
    Introduced at next LA or Chicago auto show in January, on sale following September. Based on Impreza, but with 2" increase in wheelbase, and with a low-boost version of the DOHC 2.5. Still built in Japan.

    Impreza
    On sale in August '02.

    BRAT
    Introduced at NY auto show in April, on sale in following November. Also with low-boost 2.5 turbo.

    MY '04
    SVX introduced at NY auto show.

    Who's next?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If they increase displacement, though, it will likely be by stroking it. Have you seen how close the cylinders are to each other on the H6? I think they could get a 3.2l long-stroke engine, most likely with very good torque characteristics.

    Though my money's on forced induction.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I heard they may do a batman like capsule windshields on the SVX based on the WRX platform for a roadster.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd love to see a 4l H6 in a subie. For me, there's no replacement for displacement. My XT6 can out accelerate the WRX from a standing stop anyday of the week. The past 3 auto-xs I've been to, I've been within 1/2second of all the WRX MTs. I'd bet that if I had an MT, the XT6 would kick their cans all over the place on Auto-x. On the straights, the WRXs turbo takes over, but the low end grunt of the XT6 kicks it all over. :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've said many times before, just add two more cylinders to the current 2.5 H-4, and you get a 3.8 H-6. Close enough to 4.0L for me.

    Bob
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    It get's added to the other 20% (see previous post). Sorry for the brain freeze - it is 60/40.

    Patti
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    See previous torque split post. It get's added to the other 20% (see previous post). Sorry for the brain freeze - it is 60/40.

    Patti
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Patti- So... are we supposed to vote for which post reads the best? :-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: on a tight, low-speed course, the WRX can't get into the boost. Put it on a more open track and it would shine.

    The H6 could probably be stroked a little, but I doubt we'd see more than 3.2-3.3 liters. IMHO the engine is fine - 212hp is good power.

    It's the trans that is the weakest link. Only 4 speeds and geared too tall. Autoweek even mentioned how low the engine revved quite low at high speeds, but it took 8.6s to reach 60mph (though at least they got 21mpg).

    Bob: I'm sure you don't expect Subaru to engineer another H6. ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Why not? Now that they've got access to GM's deep pockets, I wouldn't rule anything out. Besides, basing a new H-6 off the existing 2.5 is not exactly a clean sheet of paper design. Most of the parts already exist. It shouldn't be that difficult or expensive to do.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I seriously doubt it, if only because they need to amortize the costs to develop the current H6.

    But really, 212hp is plenty. Imagine that with a 6 speed on a basic Legacy GT. Or even on a 5 speed automatic Outback.

    Sure, a few would ask for more, but it would exceed the needs of 95% of potential buyers.

    -juice

    PS I hope one thing Subaru does copy from GM is their optional engines sold as stand-alone options. How about $600 for the H6 upgrade?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice, I'm not sure I agree with you on the current H-6 as being enough. I doubt it will be adequate for the new larger GM/Subaru SUV which is to debut in '05.

    If I'm not mistaken, the current H-6 is a rather over-square engine. So, they could stroke it quite a bit before it becomes under-square. Even if it were to become under-square, that would not necessarily be a bad thing. It would probably make it a real "torquer."

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd bet they use the I6 in the new Subaru/GM suv or suw. It has 270hp and 290lbs torque, should be more than enough. Heck I'd like to see that I6 in more stuff.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    mike,
    IIRC the GM version will have their 6 and the Subaru version will have the H6. Of course, that's many moons away and things change.

    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That means that whatever H6 goes in, will have to mate to the GM tranny and visa versa. Opens up some interesting doors.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think an Eaton-blown 3.0l H6 would power that bigger SUW nicely. Or a 3.3l H6 (stroked).

    I guess my bigger point is that Subaru should work on the transmission first. Give us 5 speed autos with manual controls, or a 6 speed manual.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on the tranny/priority issue—we're in full agreement. :) And yes, I too think the current 3.0 H-6 could be greatly improved upon either via super/turbocharging and/or stroking the engine. It's a new engine, and just in its infancy in terms of development.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    re:If I'm not mistaken, the current H-6 is a rather over-square engine. So, they could stroke it quite a bit before it becomes under-square. Even if it were to become under-square, that would not necessarily be a bad thing. It would probably make it a real "torquer."

    All boxer engines are massively oversquare. Stroke is severely limited by physical block size, so everyone has long ago realized that they must be oversquare to get reasonable displacement from your packaging size.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ...and that's what I was hinting at - you can't stroke it too much or you'd have to widen the entire engine bay.

    It's already a tight fit; you have to remove the windshielf fluid reservoir just to change the spark plugs!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What you're saying would be true of any engine, be it a "V" or "Inline" configuration. Why, in your opinion, is a boxer different? Are you saying that Subaru, VW and Porsche deliberately designed engines with short width so that "stroking" is not a viable option, because there is not enough space because of the room needed for the suspension?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think I can address that one.

    Vs are angled, so the total width of the engine is not as big as a boxer. Many V6s are only 60 degrees, and VW used a 15 degree design for its VR6, which is much more narrow than an H6 could ever be.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    what you're saying is, they would have to make the entire vehicle "wider," in order to allow for room to accommodate a wider (for stroking potential) engine. This is a problem, especially in Japan, where vehicles are taxed as to their width.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, Honda sells a different Accord in the US vs. the rest of the world. Maybe Subaru, at least for the new big 2005 SUW, could make it USA only.

    Even the score a bit. Japan has been getting all the sweet stuff we've missed out on.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I believe the japanese spec legacies are different body, perhaps the roofline but I'm not sure.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Width, IIRC, but only by a tiny bit (most likely the fender flares are smaller).

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    IIRC, the 2005 will be in Japan as well. I'll check later.
    Dennis
  • scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    I would like very much to see some kind of high altitude kit when I get up to 7, 8 and 9000 ft. I lose a lot of power when I need it the most.
    Bobby
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    you can make your own high altitude kit-- pull over and disconnect the battery for 30 minutes. reconnect and fire the engine, and don't touch anything until the idle is completely stable. after it stabilizes, then shut it off. start it back up, and your car is pretty much as acclimated to high altitude as it's going to be.

    a turbocharger would be a good way to keep that power.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh yeah, turbo all the way.

    -juice
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    Colin,

    Could you please explain the logic behind battery disconnection, etc. to "acclimatize" the car. This is for us non-gearheads. What does it do to the car?

    Thanks,

    Daniel
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It resets the ECU. If power is disconnected for a while, the ECU loses its memory and has to relearn how you drive and the conditions (i.e. altitude) it operates in.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Right! Specifically in this case, it is learning the new (lower) manifold pressure.
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    According to Motor Trend, the SVX is coming back based upon the WRX chassis. Wooh.


    Scan down to the bottom of the page on the following (spoz to be) hyperlink. Ah .. make that internet address.


    http://www.motortrend.com/future/2003_2.html


    hey it came through ok :)
    - hutch

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I saw that too Hutch... I don't believe it. There are relatively few happy SVX owners, or people that would otherwise identify with the name in a positive way. If it's a WRX coupe, just call it a WRX coupe.

    This isn't at all like Ford reviving the Thunderbird name for a car that looks a bit like an older 'bird. This would be more like reviving the Edsel name. (OK, not that bad but you get my point. The new Explorer probably would be selling much better if it wasn't named Explorer.)

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    "Radically styled coupe"? How 'bout a "radically styled convertible"?

    The 2 door won't do anything the WRX sedan doesn't do cheaper.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Kinda like the Impreza Cabriolet Operetta?

    http://www.subaru.net/prototype/cvt.html

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heck yeah. That's what it would take for me to trade in my Miata.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've always liked that name. Unfortunately it's always been stuck on a Subaru bottom-feeder of some sort.

    I think Brighton would be a perfect name for a Miata-like Subie.

    Bob
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    Oooh .. kinda like that idea. Somebody over at I-Club posted a photo of his Legacy and asked for help, from the tech crowd, to mod the photo to remove the top. Several people did it and I have to say .. it looked GOOD !

    Now a REX rag .. that would be hot. I'd have to consider trading in for that one.

    - hutch
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm I don't know of any un-happy SVX owners. They all seem to love the cars, and the re-sale is relatively high on them. Maybe we just run in different circles. The only downside to the SVX was the tranny, too much power...

    -mike
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    Thanks Colin.
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