Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2013
    Love it!

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/05/subaru-viziv-concept-geneva-2013/

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=XBXhOgnPedQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXBXhOgnPed- - Q

    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2013/13_03_05e_2_87288.html

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also like it, one of their better design concepts.

    I could do without the chrome 20" rims but it is a flashy concept, after all.

    Same wheelbase as the Forester, but it's shorter.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    I learned not to get excited over a Subaru concept after the Impreza. That said, bring on the diesel already! We can worry about hybrid later. :mad:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.businessfleet.com/Channel/Vehicle-Research/News/Story/2013/01/Subaru-- Provides-Update-to-Fleet-Ordering-Acceptance-and-Cutoff-Dates.aspx?prestitial=1

    This had been rumored for a while.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2013
    Wheels aren't chrome, but rather a highly polished alloy. If you look closely at the image of the wheel, you'll see this to be true.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Much better, I guess under the glaring light of the auto show they looked chromed.
  • jd_24jd_24 Member Posts: 92
    Even more official!

    http://www.subaru.com/auto-show/nyas-2013.html

    I prefer the CrossTrek over my Impreza based on the height. Just easier to get in and out of it. Now if the MPG improvement is great enough, I might just have to trade mine in next year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like that green color and the tamer rims. Don't really like the white-out tail lights, though.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    edited March 2013
    Why the Crosstrek and not the Impreza for the hybrid? Makes no sense to me.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Can land the distinction of the most fuel efficient crossover, that's why. It is a good way into the market I think. Many other hybrid sedan variants get stellar mileage, but don't sell. Thinking about it, I would buy the Crosstrek over the Impreza, and yes, I know how little they really differ.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's Subaru - the Outback always outsold the Legacy, even if you combined sedan and wagon.

    They probably want to be able to lay claim as "Most Efficient Crossover".

    The hatch would be compared to a Prius, and lose that battle.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Thinking further, there may be little engineering issues. Higher ride height of the XV might give more room for battery pack or electric motors that Impreza can't accommodate.
    Anyone have dirt on the proposed drivetrain layout? Will they do AWD with a centre diff or purely electric at 2 wheels like HiHy?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Very good question.

    What if it's RWD, with front wheels electric-only driven?

    That would prep them for a BRZ with AWD.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    A BRZ with AWD.... Mmmmmm. Yes, please! :blush:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yes but didnt they have enough trouble squeezing the power/drivetrain into the BRZ? Even if they could squeeze more room, it would add a significant weight to the front end and mess with f/r balance big time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm thinking a small battery under the rear seat, and even smaller electric motors for each front wheel.

    Would be more for torque vectoring vs. fuel economy, at least on that model.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm really curious about this car. So far hybrids have been rather spiritedly to drive. I'm hoping this hybrid will be quicker than the non-hybrid version.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    edited March 2013
    my plans for an XV are on hold until I see more on this one.

    I hope the accent is on economy, not performance. The current Impreza has plenty oomph and nice mpg. Be nice to get the XV to 36 mpg highway, and city about 34.

    I wonder if the hybrid improvements on the CVT mpg will primarily come from keeping the engine at 2000rpm and letting the electrics provide any extra acceleration needed? The racy engine at 3500-4000 rpm is a downside on the current unit, but no way around it to get snappy acceleration.

    John
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694

    I hope the accent is on economy, not performance

    Software might make both available with the choice up to the driver.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    well, as long as wish lists are acceptable posts, I'm hoping that it will also be a plug in hybrid. And that the battery pack will be good for 10+ miles of no engine driving.

    Has anyone seen a production date yet? My dealer didn't comment when I mentioned that my XV plans were on hold until I saw specs on the hybrid.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2013
    I was at the debut today. The car looks good, but I wouldn't expect huge mpg gains. Under light acceleration up to 25 mph the car runs on electric power. Also, it has no spare tire, as that space is now occupied by the battery pack. I asked Mike McHale about that and he said some sort of tire repair kit will be offered. He also indicated the car would likely feel a bit quicker in mid-rpm range.

    Here are some pics from their media site:

    http://www.media.subaru.com/image-gallery.do?method=view&imageGalleryId=59&mid=1- -

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2013
    ...via Subaru's Global site. It' about the new Crosstrek Hybrid and the stunning WRX concept.

    http://www.subaru-global.com/2013ny.html

    http://www.subaru-global.com/press/nyas/

    Bob
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Hope the look of the concept survives.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    edited March 2013
    Thanks Bob!

    Some interesting facts gleaned from this info: gas tank is reduced from 15.9 gallons to 13.7 gallons; weight is up approximately 350 lbs; city/highway goes from 25/33 to 28/34. The electric motor looks perfect--13.4 hp--very reasonable to make this into both a shot in the arm, and to recapture braking energy. Not that the Impreza CVT needs much on the takeoff, it does very well with the engine alone.

    Also, and this strikes me as very interesting--the electric drive motor appears to be independent of the CVT, as it is on the driveshaft side of drivetrain. IIRC the hybrid motors on other manufacturers are sandwiched between the engine/tranny, meaning that there are tranny losses when operated with the electric drive. Perhaps the engine starts using the regular starter? Engine apparently shuts off when at a stop.

    I do like the wheel design, the current XV wheels strike me as ho hum.

    John
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    FE Estimates by the MFG: 34 Highway, 28 City, 31 Combined. Not really much of a gain, but I suspect people will still buy them.

    Oh, but get this: 0-60.... 10.3 seconds. Granted, I honestly don't think 0-60 times better than that are "necessary," people are still going to pan it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    edited March 2013
    Hah; nice, John. You beat me to it! I should have refreshed the page before posting! :blush:

    I really like the XV wheels - especially when the vehicle is in motion.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited March 2013
    From what I understand, under light-normal acceleration up to 25 mph, it runs off the electric motor only. What really surprised me is the non-hybrid Impreza CVT gets better "highway" mileage (34 vs 36). I think when that becomes common knowledge, that's going to hurt it among green buyers. I was hoping highway mileage would be closer to 40 mpg, so that's a disappointment.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    The XV is 33 on the hwy, so the hybrid is slightly better at 34. But vs the Impreza, that low profile and lack of roof rack mounts must be good for the additional 3 mpg. The specs say that the hybrid motor doesn't operate at speed, but does add 350 lbs of weight drag.

    When we get lightweight and compact battery packs, I think we'll see more benefits from hybrid packages.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    While I'm a bit disappointed by the gas mileage, it's not a deal breaker. I'm more concerned not having a spare tire, especially on a vehicle designed to go off road.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    According to SOA president Tom Doll, there will not be a 5-door version. Not at all happy about this news.

    http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/50D1FEB680CB49DCCA257B3C005FF2- 60

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    But vs the Impreza, that low profile and lack of roof rack mounts must be good for the additional 3 mpg.

    Impreza Sport has roof rails and is rated the same as non-Sport. IIRC, the roof rail "tail" design is suppose to add 1 mpg.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    edited March 2013
    ... gas tank is reduced from 15.9 gallons to 13.7 gallons; weight is up approximately 350 lbs; city/highway goes from 25/33 to 28/34.

    What's the point? :confuse: ... I guess adding more toxic battery waste to our landfills. :mad:

    Drop in a diesel and move on ... literally (with that super sized helping of torque :) )
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Yea, trying to come up with a point, but not really seeing how the hybrid makes sense. Figuring 2 mpg overall better than the non-hybrid XV, and 200,000 mile life span, $4/gal, puts the savings at $1800. That's assuming zero additional maintenance of hybrid related components.

    I haven't heard of pricing points on the hybrid, but I doubt that this pencils out at this point. The added performance is a non-starter for me. I think Subaru needs a more compelling economic argument to sell this vehicle; the eco arguments alone aren't enough.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tiny gas tank is dumb, dumb, dumb! The hybrid actually has less (!) range, are you kidding me?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    He also confirmed the WRX would not be produced as a hatchback this time around as “performance cars are more defined in the sedan segment”.

    Really? In what market? From what I've seen, performance buyers prefer hatches. Since they've had a choice of the two in the WRX/STi, I've rarely seen a sedan.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Golf R and Speed3 are hatches.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Terrible idea if true.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Wouldn't surprise me with the direction they're going ...

    * BRZ sans AWD
    * Forester CVT w/o paddles (non-XT)
    * XV Hybrid w/ worse range than the gasoline version
    * etc.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one lamenting the potential loss of a hatchback WRX. That's a really stupid idea - I bet half of all WRX sales are the 5-door - those are all I ever see on the street anyway.

    I am thinking about a WRX for my next Subaru a few years out, but I would be a lot less likely to buy it if it were sedan-only.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    I think one has to consider the date the announcement was made.

    Could be true, but that would be stupid... Subaru is a brand where the wagons/hatches outsell the sedans; usually by a lot.

    When the Impreza came out, sedans were plentiful; but you had to stand in line for a 5door...

    Cheers -Mathias
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited April 2013
    Well it was the president of Subaru of America who made the statement at the NY auto show last week.

    If true I hope they bring back the Impreza GT, using the powertrain from the Forester XT.

    Bob
  • morey000morey000 Member Posts: 384
    Was hoping to see either their 2.0T added to the Outback (Like they're doing for the forester), or a Hybrid Outback with combined poop that takes it over 200hp from the anemic 175hp 2.5L. Then again- the outback needs an updated interior before I'd buy it.

    for now- it's another year in my Tribeca until something else comes along that I fall in love with. Hmmm. maybe the new X3?
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Lack of hatch is a head scratcher given that all I see are hatches out there.

    Considering a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel to replace my Tribeca. Subaru has nothing at the moment that interests me.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That GC diesel looks to be a very nice SUV,

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It does, but starting price is very high, because they force a certain level of equipment. That's going to limit diesel sales.

    I think the Pentastar will do the most volume, close 2nd will be the Hemi. The diesel and SRT8 motor will share less than 10% of the volume, I bet.
  • rblnrrblnr Member Posts: 124
    Wish they'd price the diesel a bit more,say, agressively. They're only going to preach to the converted the way it's priced now. Only a few choices at the moment of cars with that kind of mileage and size. Again, wish Subaru had something in that space.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    IIRC $4700 more than a similar Pentastar and that's a well equipped model at that.

    They sort of miss the volume by pricing it that high.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    As I've before, the diesel option is expensive. It's not just Jeep. They all are. The more cylinders, the worse it becomes.

    I don't think Jeep is interested in volume. This is a 'prestige' option, and they'll sell every one they make.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, but I'm hoping diesel can do mainstream.

    Cruze is getting it but even the markup on that model is pretty steep.

    Oh well, a discussion for another thread, I guess.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    edited April 2013
    I've been see significant improvements in hybrid power trains, the latest being the VW Passat hybrid with 47/42, and the Ford Fusion 47/47. Both with similar power/size/weight etc.

    How is it that the XV, especially with "new" technology and R&D, can only manage an average of about 30 mpg? I'm guessing there is something missing in their regenerative braking technology.

    The AWD penalty is probably no more than 3mpg, more likely 2 mpg?

    Subie's hybrid is bolted to a fantastically efficient engine, in a body that has been designed for aerodynmic efficiency, lightest weight materials, CVT...

    What gives? The mpg bashers claim false advertising for the others, but can it really be that false? And the Subies so underestimated?

    John
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