Subaru Crew - Future Models II

ateixeira · January 2002

True, so let it go to 1st sequentially. I think Edmunds said it had enough juice to do 2 or 3 shifts at a time, so it would take 2 series of shifts, and some time. But at a complete stop you're not using any engine power anyway.

Or, what you said in that last paragraph. ;-)

I especially liked the rev-matched shifts, up or down. That would be cool. The 0-60 suffers because you can't drop the clutch, but in the real world so what.

-juice

locke2c · January 2002

No juice, read the article again. It's not just that you can't drop the clutch-- it's that the system doesn't upshift quickly or aggressively enough under full power.

-Colin

ateixeira · January 2002

Yeah, the throttle-by-wire only lets the engine rev so high when you start.

-juice

kens · January 2002

Forgot that CVT can be an expensive option.

So, is there such thing as a clutchless manual -- something that uses a clutch but still lets you row through gears?

Ken

ateixeira · January 2002

Isn't that how Ferrari's system works?

-juice

kens · January 2002

I was using Google on some Japanese websites and came across this photo on Lycos Auto:

http://www.lycos.co.jp/auto/carmode/image/forester.jpg

The photo is small but it does resemble the Mag-X pictures we've seen so far!

The photo came from this article (in Japanese):

http://www.lycos.co.jp/auto/carmode/

Not a whole lot on the article but things to note are:

- The new chassis is just 10mm longer

- Interior length increased by 40mm and width by 20mm (basically not too much)

- Same engine and tranny offerings

Ken

locke2c · January 2002

Yes, Ferrari's "F1" Production gearbox was the first of that sort. It debuted in the F355...

I realize that they are Toyota and not Ferrari, but the loss of performance is inexcusable IMO.

-Colin

c_hunter · January 2002

Woo-hoo! I think that's probably it, though the picture is too small to see any real details. I wonder how that site dug it up? If they could find it, there's probably more dirt out there.

Good job!

Craig

kens · January 2002

Reading through the article, there are a couple more things to note:

- No blistered fenders (we figured that one out)
- Improved aerodynamics (lower drag)
- No more 2.5L NA engine in Japan. Only the 2.0 and turbo remain
- The STi version will come later -- maybe with a 6-speed

I tried other searches, but only this article came up.

Ken

qbrozen · February 2002

Well, either that means we get the turbo 4 or ours won't have the hood scoop, correct? They did say they would no longer have nonfunctional scoops on their cars, right?

p0926 · February 2002

Speaking of chrome... there is an article in today's paper about how chrome is making a major comeback and it's popularity with the hip-hop crowd. The aftermarket chrome wheel industry more than doubled in size this past year and is now a $3 billion a year enterprise. CA even has "rent-to-own" wheel places now that rent chrome rims on a weekly basis (52 payments and they're yours to keep!). I guess I'm an old fuddy-duddy cause I jsut don't see the attraction.

-Frank P.

rsholland · February 2002

that the North American version of the Forester will be pretty much a carryover mechanically.

I really don't expect any surprises. I also the think, after reading Ken's posts, and after the disappointing Baja debut, that we won't get the H-6. I hope I'm wrong.

From what I can see (which is very little), I do like the styling better than the current model. I'm sure the hood scoop if for turbo models, and we won't get that until MY04, when our turbo arrives.

Bob

paisan · February 2002

That is the new phase all the boy-racers are talking about. The Bling Bling = chrome apparently.

-mike

rsholland · February 2002

the new Forester continues with offering a full-size spare. I'm also hoping that it will get the larger 225/60x16 tires found on the Outback and Baja, at least for those coming to North America.

Bob

1subydown1togo · February 2002

from what I've read is supposedly the noise light makes when it reflects off those ugly wheels!

paisan · February 2002

Sorry couldn't help myself, just heard that Ford Explorers were found to be "Defective in design" by a court.

Not just one mans ramblings anymore!

-mike

storyteller · February 2002

That has to be an obsession with kids fighting zits, not a mainline direction for car design. The best designers these days are giving us cars with dramatically sculpted bodies and very little gingerbread (G35, CTS, Z, 2003 Tiburon, SC 430, etc). I loved Juice's recent description of all the chrome on the redesigned Passat as looking like a "teenager in braces."

ateixeira · February 2002

Blame the Audi TT for all the chrome. Even though it has real brushed aluminum, others are copying the look by using cheaper (faux) chrome plating. The RAV4 and CR-V, got it, and it looks like the Forester will too if it follows the WRX's interior look.

Way to go on the scoop, Ken. So it will once again have a wheelbase 1/2" longer than the Impreza it's based on, same as now. It's a two inches longer and about an inch wider, so with good packaging that may mean two "paisan-sized" adults can fit back there. ;-)

From the picture, I notice the headlights are flared a bit more, for a more aggressive look. The grille looks very good, I hope we get that blacked out mesh look (hard to tell, but that's what it looks like). I hope we get the hood scoop, and we all know what that means (turbo).

It sort of looks like the rear door is longer. I hope so. Even though the wheelbase is hardly any different, I hope they were able to move the rear seat back a bit. The longer door is the first hint that they may have, so I'm hopeful for the rear multilink suspension.

The 5 spoke wheels look like those from a rap video, I could do without them.

The roof rails appear to start farther back, more like the Outback than the current Forester. That could mean less effective rain gutters, though.

Hard to tell much else from the tiny photo, but it looks to have changed about as much as we expected it too.

-juice

nygreg · February 2002

more SUVish. My guess is the standard 2.5L, no scoop (too bad), bigger wheels and more standard content inside. Following years will get the upgrade in engines. Maybe Onstar?

Greg

ateixeira · February 2002

Let's see, I bet they make side air bags available on more (all?) models. Maybe on the S.

Better vanity mirrors, too, and the seats from the WRX (or at least the RS).

I'm not sure the wife will want one, given it didn't really grow much. We'll see. It appeals to me more than it would to her.

-juice

hondafriek · February 2002

It may not have grown too much, but it has a hell of a lot more room than the 626 she has now, why not use this argument.

Cheers Pat.

ateixeira · February 2002

We'll have to see it, try it out with the kids and the gear. We will definitely have a look.

The 626 has settled down and she's not driving it much right now. She's only had one client since June, so we'd be more comfortable if business picks up. So we're going to be very patient. I'd prefer the 2004 Turbo anyway.

It's only got 70k miles, and she wants to give it to her parents (*gasp*) since I helped buy my mom a new car. It's worth $7 grand, so I'd rather give it away when it's only worth $3-4 grand. I'm generous, not stupid.

Right now my thinking is "no sedan". It's not worth it, to get what we have now, just newer, for a $25 loss to our savings. She doesn't want a wagon, or a minivan for that matter. I'll check out the Pilot and Forester when they arrive.

Honestly, though, I've been following the Odyssey threads and the problems are kind of scaring me off ($6k trannys, endless door issues, etc.). Maybe I'm wrong to be reading the problems boards, but it hasn't scared me away from Subaru, maybe because the problems are far smaller (paint chips, CELs, etc.).

-juice

bblacha · February 2002

The first-year Odys were crappy; are people complaining about those, or the new ones too? That doesn't bode well for the Pilot which will be manuf'd in the Ody plant. (And the Ody moving down to AL.) Best bet will be to wait through the first year or so.

In a couple of years will be a very exciting time to get a new sportwagon, with a bunch of new models having passed their growing pains and price gouging.

Your remark on the value of problem boards makes me think that they're a complement to Consumer Reports. Their circles just count problems and don't measure the hassle factor. But boards don't give you statistics. So they work together.

--Bart

ateixeira · February 2002

Many are first year, but even some 2002 buyers are having pretty major problems, IMO. And to top it off, the warranty is ridiculously short. The luckier ones are getting Honda to pay for part of it, but they're still being stuck with $2 grand tranny bills.

CR is useful to measure the % of problems, but the threads tell real life stories, and who foots the bill, for example.

-juice

c_hunter · February 2002

I tell you what, the Acura MDX I test drove was not very impressive in the quality department, and people have had quite a few problems with those too. They are built off the same platform as the Odyssey, and produced at the same plant. If that's any indication, I doubt the new Odysseys are any better.

Craig

ateixeira · February 2002

...and thus would follow the Pilot. If I go that route, I'd budget in an extended warranty.

-juice

jregen7243 · February 2002

All over the country, they are selling for well above MSRP. There is a dealer near me, East Brunswick Acura, that just sold one for $4500 over MSRP. Hard to believe someone would pay that much over sticker.

Jon

ateixeira · February 2002

Wow, MSRP I can understand, but that kind of markup is just plain foolish.

Someone I knew paid $1750 over MSRP for a Miata back when they were trendy. I paid $7800 total!

-juice

locke2c · February 2002

actually, $7800 sounded pretty high to me at the time. can I say that? ;-)

-Colin

p0926 · February 2002

ateixeira · February 2002

C'mon, book value was $11,400 at the time! :-)Although values have dropped quickly in the last year and a half, so I could barely recoup my investment today.

Makes me want to sell it and pick up a '99. One guy was offered $10k from a dealer as a trade-in, I would have offered him $10,500 it on the spot if it weren't an automatic.

-juice

miksmi · February 2002

I could barely recoup my investment

juice, real estate appreciates; that's an investment. Transportation depreciates; that's an expense. :-p

..Mike [ incoming! ]

bluesubie · February 2002

Does anyone know anything about water injection for turbos?
I only recently became aware of this and found one thread on the i-club.
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40647&referrerid=767

Through some internet searches, I see that some of the WRC cars use it (older Subaru not sure about current one) and it's a debated topic in the aftermarket (see 22B.com link in the i-club link).

Does any company offer it as OEM? Wouldn't this be helpful in the WRX, in addition to the intercooler, if Subaru started using it?
Seems like it would help some of the engine failures the Scoobynet.uk guys are having. One theory is that enough air isn't cooling the engine. http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=65110

Thoughts?

-Dennis

ateixeira · February 2002

Well in that case I've had about 6k miles of smiles, so even if it's worthless I had my fun, Mike!

Dennis: the STi rumored for the US will have water cooling sprays. I bet some folks retrofit it to the WRXs.

-juice

bluesubie · February 2002

juice - This isn't just an intercooler spray. This is water injection into the engine.

-Dennis

ateixeira · February 2002

Oh, gotcha.

Read Edmunds' review on the CL Type S. They just added a helical front LSD, which they call ATTS. A la Prelude, it's an interesting way to address torque steer.

-juice

locke2c · February 2002

last comment AJ but $11k is insanely high even if it had super low miles.

'93 miata around these parts would be lucky to fetch $5000.

-Colin

miksmi · February 2002

QuickTime and Windows videos of the EZ30, the 3.0-liter, 6-cylinder DOHC 24-valve engine of the LLBean and VDC:

http://www.fhi.co.jp/subaru/bodi0101.htm

On a Windoze laptop, the QuickTime video shows details better than the Windows AVI (the Mac crowd already knew that). Worth a download from http://www.quicktime.com . (do a backup first! we're talking about Windows here)

..Mike

twrx · February 2002

Hey Mike, I just call Windoze the "dark side of the OS"

TWRX on my wireless iBook.

subypower · February 2002

transmission on several of their vehicle including the Santa Fe, and XG 350. No matter how you cut it, it's never the same as having a true clutch.

miksmi · February 2002

on my wireless iBook.

Rub it in Bruce, rub it in. ;-)

..Mike, the hopeless Microserf

lark6 · February 2002

Hyundai Elantra :-(

Ed

c_hunter · February 2002

That engine video is very cool. Thanks for the link.

Let's see, Ti PowerBook G4 here, OS X with MS Internet Explorer, MS Entourage, MS Word, MS Excel, and MS PowerPoint up and running. I think we are all Microserfs!

Craig

goldencouple1 · February 2002

See www.autonews.com re: Interview w/ President of Subaru Dealers Council, Jan. 28, 2002: 2003 Forester (gorgeous,quieter & more fuel efficient) to be available March or April; Subaru Buyer second only to BMW Buyer in Internet usage -- see interview for other interesting tidbits.

rsholland · February 2002

by a "Subie Big Cheese" in last paragraph of first link here. These are links pertaining Subaru at the NADA convention. There's no mention of a Forester 6, so I don't think we'll see one.

Bob

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38125

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38150

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=37907

odd1 · February 2002

I have a BMW and I'm looking at adding a Subaru. Does that mean I spend as much time on the net as juice?

rsholland · February 2002

My sense, from the few tidbits garnered here and elsewhere, is that the new Forester will be more "refined" than the current model. A Subie executive says that it will be "quieter." Another Subie executive states that Subaru wants to be known as the "premium brand" within its market segment. Those are tip-offs to me. Perhaps more Legacy/Outback-like, rather than Impreza-like in terms of materials/content/quality.

Bob

armac13 · February 2002

This was Don Hicks response to the question:

"What will the shared GM vehicle look like? What kind of vehicle is it?"

I guess Patti wasn't kidding about security.

Ross

rsholland · February 2002

I guess SOA's dungeon is too small for two people. It's either there or death...

Bob

twrx · February 2002

Rub it in "Ti Powerbook G4" and I'm only using an original tangerine iBook.

PC people, if you don't know what the "Ti" is for check out Apple.com or Subaru's accessory shift knob.

HEH HEH
Always great to know so many Subaru people turn away from the dark side of the OS.

TWRX

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