I like the 2.2l engine in my cousin's '92 Legacy, drove it last week, great car. In fact I'm gonna try to get a 2.2l Turbo for auto-x next year I think.
I keep saying '92 Legacy... it's a '93. I don't know why I wanna say '92 so much. Next time I do that, somebody slap me. Thanks.
JPM
Edit: I just realized why. Cause when I was shopping for a car last summer, it was between a '92 SVX and my Legacy. I really, really regret not gettin' the SVX, sometimes, but this is a cheaper car, and I can fit stuff into it... and I would have to treat the SVX a lot nicer than I treat my Rubie Sue.
Bad news, if the FHI CEO says "We want to shed our off-road, dirt-digger image in favor of messages like safety and driving fun", low ranges are history. Fuggetaboutit.
OK, then, let's see side curtain air bags, or at least head protection like the Forester offers on the rest of the line up. VDC should be offered on all models if you want to trumpet safety.
I'll liberally interpert "driving fun" to mean the Forester will get 217hp or more, the Legacy will get 250hp or more, and the Baja will get an H6 to help sales.
No fair counting September, though, they only started trickling in recently. 415 isn't much, been when did they start selling them? The middle of the month?
Traviq bombed though. I'm surprised, it was priced lower than the Opel version and had more power. At least this kills the whole idea of rebadging GM vehicles as Subies.
So the article also says 3 new models will appear:
2005 SUW, which they call an SUW/Minivan, interesting.
The Chevy Borrego and a Subaru equivalent (should be fun).
Hybrid? Not sure how that fits in the lineup, but it'll sure help the CAFE numbers. I'd hate to see them put all their R&D dollars in something so low volume.
My wife's Jetta has auto up and down for both of the front windows. It's a nice feature to have when you're locking up the car. You can close all four windows by simply lifting up on the front two switches and then holding up the rear two. There's always the cool feature of twisting the key in the driver's side keyhole and raising all the windows up and down too.
Those rims on the GT-B and RSK Limited II look like they are the same "less expensive" 17" rims offered for the WRX in the US. I think they are pressure cast wheels -- stronger than standard cast wheels, but less expensive than forged.
Anyone else think like me? I mean, really, I'd rather have sort of a Outback GT-B, but either one... I just want the more ground clearance and the two-tone paint with the more horsepower and the rugged image or something. I'm strange.
Ken, they are indeed the same as the new "lower" cost option for the WRX. Some dealers were importing them to the US for the WRX and then SOA got in on the act. My local dealer is throwing them on Foresters, Legacies, everything except a WRX on their lot!
FWIW, Audi's allroad quattro wasn't selling so hot with the 2.7T, so they came out with a V8 model. For the most part, that image requires more low-end torque than horsepower.
Not a bad review. Tied for the roomiest back seat, best ride with the only indy suspension in the bid-ness, and 0-60 on par with V6s that can't come close in gas mileage.
I can't believe the writer called the Outback "homely", though, maybe they prefer the clean look of the GT?
As I've said (or suggested) many times, the vehicle's not quite "finished" yet. With a few tweaks here and there, the reviews could move from being merely "OK" to being really "enthusiastic."
A couple of other features to mention: - HID lights - AT version comes with Sportshift and VTD - 215/55R16 wheels come with summer tires - Optional 225/45R17 with Z-rated tires
An interesting point is that the lowered 170mm ground clearance enables the Cross Sport to be parked in automatic parking garages. In Japan, it's quite common to find apartment building sized structures that are fully automated parking garages. You don't drive you car to the spot and park it. Instead, you drive your car into the entrance space, punch in a key code and it lifts and moves your vehicle to it's location. Similarly, to get your vehicle, you punch in a keycode, wait a bit and VOILA! Your car is ready for you to drive off. Kind of like a big car vending machine.
I believe the regular Forester is a little too tall for these garages and the new Cross Sport takes care of it.
That's the 217hp engine in the regular turbo model.
So ground clearance would be about 6.3". Stay on the pavement. The tires are 3% smaller, but they alone reduce clearance by just 0.4", so the springs must be different, too.
The only thing I don't care for are the ground effects; if it's lower by 30mm it will make ripping those off more likely. Make mine that dark bllue-gray or [Pat flame suit on...] black.
One of the more interesting comments I heard made, in regarding the new Accord, is that the Odyssey* is now considered my most Honda customers as being the vehicle most likely bought for "family" use. Therefore, the role of the Accord sedan is no longer looked upon to fill that role, which it previously did. This is why the new Accord sedan is somewhat sportier than previous models. It's trying to attract a slightly different audience than before.
I suspect the same will be true when Subaru launches its 7-passenger crossover in a couple of years. I think the Legacy and Outback, which have been considered Subaru's family cars, will also become more sporty, for the very same reasons Honda chose. So I expect the '05 Legacy and Outback to be much more "fun-type" cars than the current models. I sure hope so...
I'm hoping Subaru will position this new crossover "parallel" to the Legacy/Outback line, and not above it. That's what Honda did. The Odyssey is contented much like the Accord, which is the way it should be, IMO.
I also hope the next-generation Baja will be built off the 7-passenger crossover platform, and not the next Outback platform. By doing so, it will hopefully be a much more "capable" vehicle than the current model.
* = Prediction: I bet the next-generation Odyssey will become a 9-passenger vehicle. Why? The Pilot can seat 8, so I would think the Odyssey would want to better that. In addition, I would not be at all surprised if it offered 3-across front seating, at least as an option. Also, since the Pilot nips at the edges of the Tahoe/Expedition, in terms of customers, Honda may want to nip at the edges of the Suburban for customers too.
how would that work, 3 rows of 3??? I really don't understand why only GM make 8 seat minivans for the US market! Toyota still has 8 seat options in Previas they sell elsewhere.
Just like what you see on (entry-level) full-size SUVs. If Honda makes the next-generation Odyssey just a tad wider they could do it. In fact, they could do it with the current model if they wanted. I think they would need to boost the GVW a bit first.
I may have to doubt that we'll see a 9 seater Ody (or other MINI-van) in the future. Part of the whole mini-van concept is convenience. A convenience that includes allowing one to manuver about the cabin. I don't see that happening with 3 bench seats in a mini-van. It would become something else, something more like what the Suburban is - NOT a van.
On the plus side, it would be a car-based Suburban-like vehicle, rather than a truck-like Suburban.
This is the first time I've seen anything (sort of) official about an H-6 turbo.
Remember my prediction a while back that the Legacy turbo might be a H-6, and not a H-4? If Subaru really wants to make a jaw-dropping statement with the next Legacy, an H-6 turbo is the way to go...
Subaru has been saying for a long time that we would be getting a Legacy turbo. What they haven't been saying is how many cylinders it would have.
Yep. The H6 has 212hp, but look around - the Altima and Accord have 240hp, and the Mazda 6 has 220hp. So the base H6 is no big deal now, even among mainstream vanilla sedans.
Take a small step up and the Maxima offers 255hp, the G35 260hp (if you like RWD). Audi offers 220hp with Quattro, and the S4's 250hp wasn't nearly enough, so it's getting a substantial boost.
I think an H6 light-pressure turbo could make a reliable 250-260hp or so.
That would be enough to justify a step up to a VDC, or a leap up from an L/SE to a GT Legacy.
I don't know if that would be reliable, though. The spacing between cylinder walls is pretty thin on the H6 as a 3l, so unless they use a smaller bore, I'm not convinced it can take the stress.
Or they could go like Volvo, and offer two version. One light pressure turbo to mate up with an automatic, and a full blown monster for the high-end STi models.
Comments
maybe my car's just a freak accident or something.
JPM
But the H6 is quieter, perhaps because of extra sound insulation or that engine condom.
-juice
My SVX has it.
I like the 2.2l engine in my cousin's '92 Legacy, drove it last week, great car. In fact I'm gonna try to get a 2.2l Turbo for auto-x next year I think.
-mike
JPM
Edit: I just realized why. Cause when I was shopping for a car last summer, it was between a '92 SVX and my Legacy. I really, really regret not gettin' the SVX, sometimes, but this is a cheaper car, and I can fit stuff into it... and I would have to treat the SVX a lot nicer than I treat my Rubie Sue.
-juice
Gorgeous alloys, please bring those over! Much nicer and easy to clean, what's not to love?
But - they are not quite perfect. Neither has a moonroof.
-juice
-Dennis
OK, then, let's see side curtain air bags, or at least head protection like the Forester offers on the rest of the line up. VDC should be offered on all models if you want to trumpet safety.
I'll liberally interpert "driving fun" to mean the Forester will get 217hp or more, the Legacy will get 250hp or more, and the Baja will get an H6 to help sales.
No fair counting September, though, they only started trickling in recently. 415 isn't much, been when did they start selling them? The middle of the month?
Traviq bombed though. I'm surprised, it was priced lower than the Opel version and had more power. At least this kills the whole idea of rebadging GM vehicles as Subies.
-juice
2005 SUW, which they call an SUW/Minivan, interesting.
The Chevy Borrego and a Subaru equivalent (should be fun).
Hybrid? Not sure how that fits in the lineup, but it'll sure help the CAFE numbers. I'd hate to see them put all their R&D dollars in something so low volume.
-juice
-Dennis
Those rims on the GT-B and RSK Limited II look like they are the same "less expensive" 17" rims offered for the WRX in the US. I think they are pressure cast wheels -- stronger than standard cast wheels, but less expensive than forged.
Ken
It could have a 2.0l boxer engine, like the 156hp model from Japan, with battery assist on the rear wheels.
Problem is, that would be part-time AWD, something I don't like and Subaru avoids.
Something like Honda's IMA would work better, tied up to VTD maybe.
-juice
Anyone else think like me? I mean, really, I'd rather have sort of a Outback GT-B, but either one... I just want the more ground clearance and the two-tone paint with the more horsepower and the rugged image or something. I'm strange.
Okay, I'll quiet down, now.
JPM
-mike
He had a turbo and NOS on his automatic '97 OBS. Saw him run a 13.03 1/4 mile as the Camaro dudes in South Jersey scratched their heads. :-)
-Dennis
-mike
FWIW, Audi's allroad quattro wasn't selling so hot with the 2.7T, so they came out with a V8 model. For the most part, that image requires more low-end torque than horsepower.
-juice
I can't believe the writer called the Outback "homely", though, maybe they prefer the clean look of the GT?
-juice
As I've said (or suggested) many times, the vehicle's not quite "finished" yet. With a few tweaks here and there, the reviews could move from being merely "OK" to being really "enthusiastic."
Bob
• 220 PS (not sure how that translates into horsepower, or if it still uses the 2.0 engine?)
• 170mm vs 200 mm (Less ground clearance and height than regular Forester)
• 215/55x16 tires
Bob
-Dennis
Bob
You sure are quick!
A couple of other features to mention:
- HID lights
- AT version comes with Sportshift and VTD
- 215/55R16 wheels come with summer tires
- Optional 225/45R17 with Z-rated tires
An interesting point is that the lowered 170mm ground clearance enables the Cross Sport to be parked in automatic parking garages. In Japan, it's quite common to find apartment building sized structures that are fully automated parking garages. You don't drive you car to the spot and park it. Instead, you drive your car into the entrance space, punch in a key code and it lifts and moves your vehicle to it's location. Similarly, to get your vehicle, you punch in a keycode, wait a bit and VOILA! Your car is ready for you to drive off. Kind of like a big car vending machine.
I believe the regular Forester is a little too tall for these garages and the new Cross Sport takes care of it.
Ken
So ground clearance would be about 6.3". Stay on the pavement. The tires are 3% smaller, but they alone reduce clearance by just 0.4", so the springs must be different, too.
Dang, that's Ed's next car. 17" factory option, VTD, shiftronic, turbo, HIDs?
Kind of like a big car vending machine
Can we put in a few quarters and get one of those babies? ;-)
-juice
-juice
Bob
Ed
I suspect the same will be true when Subaru launches its 7-passenger crossover in a couple of years. I think the Legacy and Outback, which have been considered Subaru's family cars, will also become more sporty, for the very same reasons Honda chose. So I expect the '05 Legacy and Outback to be much more "fun-type" cars than the current models. I sure hope so...
I'm hoping Subaru will position this new crossover "parallel" to the Legacy/Outback line, and not above it. That's what Honda did. The Odyssey is contented much like the Accord, which is the way it should be, IMO.
I also hope the next-generation Baja will be built off the 7-passenger crossover platform, and not the next Outback platform. By doing so, it will hopefully be a much more "capable" vehicle than the current model.
* = Prediction: I bet the next-generation Odyssey will become a 9-passenger vehicle. Why? The Pilot can seat 8, so I would think the Odyssey would want to better that. In addition, I would not be at all surprised if it offered 3-across front seating, at least as an option. Also, since the Pilot nips at the edges of the Tahoe/Expedition, in terms of customers, Honda may want to nip at the edges of the Suburban for customers too.
Bob
I really don't understand why only GM make 8 seat minivans for the US market! Toyota still has 8 seat options in Previas they sell elsewhere.
Just like what you see on (entry-level) full-size SUVs. If Honda makes the next-generation Odyssey just a tad wider they could do it. In fact, they could do it with the current model if they wanted. I think they would need to boost the GVW a bit first.
Bob
On the plus side, it would be a car-based Suburban-like vehicle, rather than a truck-like Suburban.
-Brian
Bob
Bob
http://www.noztune.com.au/engines01.htm
Jim
> US$ 2,016
EJ25 non-turbo SOHC
> US$ 1,820
EJ20 twin-turbo DOHC
> US$ 2,128
EJ25 non-turbo vvt DOHC
> US$ 1,960
EJ20 STi variable valve timing
> US$ 6,160
EZ30 chain driven H6 DOHC
> US$ 2,212
Subaru's new 6 cylinder turbo engine available SOON ! ! !
This is a lot to digest!
The cost differences are tiny, except for the STi engine. VTT is $140 extra. Heck a twin turbo is just $200 more than the base 2.5l.
I doubt you can translate that into cost differences for production cars, but still.
If I could put an H6 in my wife's car for $2 grand, I'd do it. That's cheaper than Ludespeeds Stage I turbo kit.
-juice
HOLY COW! That could really stir things up!
Make the H6 standard on all Outbacks, and put the turbo H6 in the VDC and the new 3.0 GT! Woo hoo!
Heck, I'd even buy a shiftronic if that's all they offered.
-juice
Remember my prediction a while back that the Legacy turbo might be a H-6, and not a H-4? If Subaru really wants to make a jaw-dropping statement with the next Legacy, an H-6 turbo is the way to go...
Subaru has been saying for a long time that we would be getting a Legacy turbo. What they haven't been saying is how many cylinders it would have.
Bob
Take a small step up and the Maxima offers 255hp, the G35 260hp (if you like RWD). Audi offers 220hp with Quattro, and the S4's 250hp wasn't nearly enough, so it's getting a substantial boost.
I think an H6 light-pressure turbo could make a reliable 250-260hp or so.
That would be enough to justify a step up to a VDC, or a leap up from an L/SE to a GT Legacy.
-juice
Bob
-mike
Or they could go like Volvo, and offer two version. One light pressure turbo to mate up with an automatic, and a full blown monster for the high-end STi models.
-juice
-Dennis