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Comments
Hmmm..I don't recall saying anything about drying time with Z..Thats why there is ZFX..right Joey??
Oh..I forgot..you don't flame anyone..Sorry Joey, I must have gotten the wrong impression of you..
BTW..Other Z users are using the same techniques so I can't take all the credit!! But I feel better that you admire me..
Let's go to the master of alternate Zaino uses....Fastdriver?
You've got it on your computer screen. How about "the shampoo, thing"? Make my grecian formula bond to my hair better?
LOL!
I wash all the towels together! Never noticed a problem.
johnstone53-
All towels should be washed PRIOR to using them on the car. Could be that some brands are better than others as far as lint. For that, you'd have to write to Martha Stewart! ;-))
fastdriver
I do feel that the towel is not as soft as before when I first started using them. I dry them in my dryer WITHOUT any fabric softeners! I guess that's normal also?
I already have 10 or 15 coats of Z-2 on my 23 month old silver bullet (including a Z-1 every 6 months or so or after every 10 coats of Z-2). Just keep the Z-1 and use it occasionally as the "power lock" before continuing with occasional coats of Z-2 (or Z-5). Like me, you probably won't need to apply multiple coats of Z in one day.
Hope this helps.
Do NOT use any kind of fabric softener, liquid or sheets, with the towels. This goes for all towels: those you use on the car and those you use on yourself (in case they aren't the same) and those you use in the kitchen. That softener makes them feel soft, but it inhibits their ability to absorb water, which, of course, is the primary function of a towel.
Why they don't tell you this on the product packaging is beyond me, except that it might cut down on use a bit.
I always wash all towels separately from other wash loads, and I always separate car towels from other towels, just becase of the grit and chemicals that the car towels get exposed to. I don't want that stuff against my baby-soft skin.
After a year, my pretty good cotton towels have been around the car many times but are still quite functional, soft, and absorbent.
That's all I know about laundry.
Fastdriver-
Looks like I stuck around longer than I thought I would. hehe!
There's still a "few old timers" left here! ;-))
fastdriver
now and I love it except for the spider webbing,
marring, matrix, echi-sketch or whatever you want
to call it. Tried many layers of Z5/FXed and Z2/FXed and the marring stays about the same.
Love the shine, but in direct sunlight and nightlights it looks like a bowl of cappellini.
Has this issue been addressed before. Other forums mention this marring also. Any help
appreciated.
TY
RD
BTW- I must agree with the prior posts that orange peel is present to somw degree in most all factory paint jobs these days. A colleague and close friend has a beautiful black BMW M5- and it has the orange peel syndrome BAD. Of course, it would be less noticible with a light colored metallic paint. Black is the worst color for showing any imperfections in the finish. But when it looks good, there is nothing like it!
Jon
Is that an extra-cost option, or does BMW throw in the orange peel for free?
(On a more serious note, I have a good friend who has had about 7 different black BMW's, including 3's and 5's, and he has never had anything but perfect paint; I've never had anything like that, even on my inexpensive cars. I disagree that "orange peel is present to some degree in most [sic] all factory paint jobs these days." If I bought a new car and it came with a bad paint job, I'd be back at the dealer raising some hell. If your friend is OK with his BMW with a bad paint job, then he is more tolerant of shoddy workmanship than I am.)
That thing had orange peel all over it, especially the rear clip. It was so bad I thought it had been repainted. But it was fairly consistent with the rest of the paint on the car (also crappy).
Now, orange peel on a Hyundai or Chevy is tolerable. Heck, my '96 Maxima had a good amount of it. But on a car that costs close to $220,000????
Of course, the $230,000 RR Silver Seraph the company had wasn't a whole lot better. But, ya know, that extra $10,000 does get you a little less orange peel.
I did not mean to "dis" anyone (or their ride!) with my OP statement. Some of my close relatives have spent their careers in the automotive paint industry, so I may be a "hereditary perfectionist" here (at least my wife thinks I am!). Minimizing this OP problem (both macroscopic and microscopic) has always been a goal within the industry for many years. Clearly, different cars and different colors (light/dark, metallic/non-metallic) are affected with the syndrome to differing degrees. I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a factory finish without at least a bit of OP, (including Lexus, MB, BMW, Acura, Volvo, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc., etc.). Some individual cars are obviously better or worse than others. OP usually comes from the presence of micro bits of dust embeded at the time of spraying the finish. Try as the carmakers do, it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain an absolutely clean spray area in auto production lines (although some makers do better than others!). As Sol states on his website, the only real way to get rid of all OP is wetsanding (which to me is not an option for a daily driver). I have seen a few cars where no OP was noticible in sunlight, but was it present when looking at the finish at an angle in a garage under bright (1000W) halogen light (a severe visual test to be sure) . Perhaps no OP in sunlight should be the standard for "no OP", but as I said I am a perfectionist. Why use "halogen " lights when detailing? Because it is SO revealing of minor defects (e.g. OP, haze, minor swirls, etc.). In exterior detailing, I believe the trick is to know when to be "satisfied" with a car's finish for a given purpose (e.g. show vs "car nut's ride" vs daily driver). Remember that if it looks decent under halogen, that finish will usually be AWESOME in the daylight.
Jon
Thanks for that info. I had wondered what all the shouting was about, as I have never really noticed OP on any of my cars.
I'll take a good look at mine in some really good light and see what I can see.
That's why I like to read this board: you learn something everyday.
Learning is why I visit BB's too, although I believe in "trust but verify". I've read some silly things that I would never try on my cars (or anyone else's!).
I think that OP is one of those things we never think about until we see a car where it's bad, then we start noticing it more (...like scratching an itch you didn't know you had until someone suggested it). I pray you do not look TOO closely at your finish. It pleases you now, and it was NOT my purpose to disrupt your automotive bliss. My comments were purely academic. It makes no practical difference if a phenomenon is present but only under a magnifying glass!!!
BTW- I'm new to the Zaino club- still on my first order. My daily driver is a garnet (dark burgundy) 2001 Chrysler 300M with sandstone leather & walnut interior trim. It's a beautiful color combination (and yes it does have a bit of OP in the proper light!). The dark exterior and relatively light leather interior require some serious detailing time, though. Sometimes I think I should have bought one in silver with a dark grey interior like the wife told me to!
Jon
Don't second guess yourself. My Lexus is black with "ecru" (white) leather interior and a light, bird's eye mable wood trim. This dark exterior/light interior is similar to yours, except my car is a convertible, making the interior more subject to getting dirty (but easier to clean when the top is down). So maybe keeping the light interior clean takes more time, but it's well worth it, because it looks so good.
Your color combination sounds great; tell your wife to buy her own car in the color of her choice.
Besides, silver is for people who don't know what color car they want. It's always the first thought, because it's in the ads so much. And why do the advertisers use it so much? Because it's neutral and won't scare off folks. It's almost the absence of color. (Of course, black is the absence of color, but that's another story; black looks good on a car when clean, especially with 8 coats of Zaino, and will have to do until something darker comes along.)
I first thought about getting my car in silver, but I concluded that as long as I was getting an unusual car, I might as well go all the way in making a bold fashion statement, and I'm very glad I did. My car draws a crowd whereever it goes.
Finally, I looked pretty closely at my paint job under strong light, and don't see any OP. Maybe it's there, but if it's only visible upon close inspection using special lighting under specific conditions, then it might as well not be there.
If I see any, I'll let you know.
If it's swirl marks that follow the pattern of how you wipe your vehicle's surface, then it sounds like what one gets from using the wrong media to wash/apply Zaino/wipe it off and apply Z-6, i.e., not 100% cotton or blend fabric material, and/or possibly dirty. It could also be that you're pressing down too hard on the paint in any or all of those steps.
One other contributing factor to a non-smooth look could be that you're applying Zaino too heavily and/or unevenly. Use less polish per panel, use Z-6 on your applicator before every few drops of polish you put on and/or after you've wiped off the dried Zaino to help put it on thinly and to even it out afterwards.
Does a poor paint job at the factory cause swirls?
Thanks
- Have always used clean/washed Fieldcrest's.
- Applied Z6 on applicator often.
- Pressed only hard enough to remove Z2 - Z5 FXed.
- Applied Zee thick and applied Zee thin.
Maybe a spritz of water or Z6 on the removal
towel to soften naps as towel may be too dry.
- Capellini = angel hair pasta.
TY
RD
This wash and wax is often done by machine or by the lowest paid kid who does odd jobs and runs errands around the shop. It's only designed to make the car look clean for a day or so.
There are many reports of buyers of new cars directing the dealer NOT to wash or wax the car prior to delivery. At the extreme, ask the dealer to give you the car with the shipping plastic sheets still sticking to the hood and doors.
In theory this is your best bet to avoid swirls in a new car. I wish I had known this, as I would have asked for no wash/wax. As it was, about a week after taking delivery, I went with the dawn wash and applied Z1, etc. (ZFX was not out at that time, last May, so it took me a few days to build up several coats of z5 and z2.)
For some reason I did not have a lot of swirls from the dealer's crew, but I think I was pretty lucky.
I gather that the best advice for taking delivery of a new vehicle is: tell the dealer not to wash or wax it. (This assumes you are not buying something off the lot, but getting a car delivered from the mfg'r.) Drive it right home. Wash it with Dawn. Clay it. (This is not hard to do, does not take long, and there is stuff on there that the clay will take off; you will feel rather than see the effect of this step.) Wash with Z7. Dry with nice soft towels. Look around for any spots or swirls. There should not be any, but now is the time to get anything off. Then apply Z1 or ZFX and start getting a few coats of z5 and z2 on there.
Keep sunglasses handy to protect your eyes from the shine.
Now you're ready to drive the car.
Wave to the kids, honey.
LOL.... Thanks to this board, that's EXACTLY what I did with my Acura! DON'T touch it, wash it or remove the plastic! If ANYONE was going to put swirls on it, it would be ME! ;-))
Any new pics? I'm ready!
fastdriver
The only other thing I can think of is the characteristics of Volvo paint. A high end detailer told me there are differences in them that he has to know about before choosing what kind of buffer, bonnet, and technique to use. I had referred one of my Zaino customers to him who had chips in the hood of his British Green(?) Mazda Miata. I followed up with the detailer who characterized Mazda paint as being somewhat brittle. As a now-FoMoCo subsidiary, maybe Volvo cars are using similar paints? But that's a stretching WAG.
And thanks for expanding my knowledge (also limited) of different pasta types.
Jon
Paint: Original Super White, no factory clear coat
But: Toyota dealer applied "clear coat sealant"
Bought the car new in '94. Since about '96, I have applied Meguiars and Prolong paint sealant at various times, except for last fall, I applied NuFinish. Then a couple weeks ago, I clay-bar'ed with Meguiar's clay bar kit (uses Meguiars Quick Detailer as lube), then applied my last bit of Prolong. I don't think I have any oxidation to speak of - nothing comes off in the cloth using abrasive polishes. Always garaged until 2000, frequently washed, spent 94-96 in So Cal, and from then until now in Oregon.
Problem: In the sunlight, definite "cloudy" areas appear, seemingly below the wax/sealant. Perhaps the dealer's clear coating product is fading?
Finally, the questions.
1) How do I attack the "cloudy" thing?
2) What should I do to prep the car for Zaino? Anything besides Dawn wash & clay again? What was in that Prolong, anyway???
I have used 3M however and find it to work well on swirls.
I would start with Z5 on swirls. If after 3-4 coats you aren't satisfied, try the 3M product.
I've posted this before, but here's a quick rundown on what you need to do.
1. Dawn Wash (dry)
2. Clay
3. Dawn Wash (dry)
4. 3-4 coats of Z5 (mixed with ZFX)removing the Z5 after each coat
5. Z6
As mentioned, if you have more intense swirling, then Z5 may not be enough to get the finish to your satisfaction. Use 3M foam polish for step 4. After using the 3M (per directions) then go ahead and Z2 followed with Z6 wipedown.
http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_1000&L2=L2_1004&SKU=11161
any opinions?
There are a lot of different products from Meguiars and 3M, with varying degrees of abrasiveness. Glazes, polishes, and rubbing compounds, more or less in order of least abrasive to more abrasive. Some products are made for hand use, others for orbital buffers (consumer) and rotory buffers (professional). Hand polishing is a lot of work if you're doing your whole car. With orbital buffers, the kind of bonnet will also affect the process. The foam bonnets are great for light polishing. The lambs wool (usually synthetic) are best for really agressive grinding with rubbing compounds. Be careful if you work with the lambs wool bonnet, especially at the edges. You can go through the paint. If you've never worked with a rotory buffer, don't even consider it.
I think the best way is to start with the least abrasive glaze and a foam bonnet. If that doesn't do the job, work to the the more abrasive products, until you have removed the swirls or scratches, then work back to the least abrasive product to polish the surface. If you've never done this before, stick with the foam pad and glazes and polishes.
This is not a process one would do very often. Maybe once every 3 years. There is a bunch of information on the Meguires web page under consumer and professional products.
lex430...I've heard of Griot products, but have had no reason to use them.
sddlw...agreed...I would always start with the products that have the least (or no) abrasives. I'd always start with the Z5 since it "fills in" the swirls as opposed to "leveling" the swirls with abrasives. Agree with you about buffers, too. Unless you have experience with them, more harm than good can come from their use. This coming from a person (me) that has "burned" many a paint job before I had enough experience to really know what I was doing. Even though I have used power buffers in the past (both rotary and orbital), I still prefer to do the job by hand. True, it's a lot of work, but the likelihood of hurting the paint is a lot less.
I've even seen so-called professional detailers use buffers incorrectly with results that were worse than the swirls themselves.
I haven't used power buffers in the last 4 years or so. Maybe the new ones which have lower RPMs work better. It is important to use the correct "bonnets" for good results.
Been "attending" the Town Hall postings, but been very busy at work over the last year and was reading them "in arrears," so, had nothing timely to say until I recently caught up. Thanks for noticing.
After 911, civility has regained much of its importance; I try very hard to keep it in mind in my behavior and posting more and notice, admire,a and appreciate it in others.
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showroom_template.cfm (look under professional products)
New Car Glaze, Show Car Glaze, Swirl Remover
http://www.3m.com/market/automotive/
3M(TM) Perfect-It(TM) Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirl Mark Remover
My experience with using the Meguire's products with a foam pad (bonnet) with a good quality orbital buffer are quite good and if you stay with the foam pad and glazes or swirl removers, I doubt if you will risk any paint damage. When I have made "errors in judgenment", I've been using the other bonnets (terry cloth, synth. lambs wool, etc) and more abrasive polishes and rubbing compounds.
I've heard applying any wax to wheels helps prevent dirt and brake dust build-up.
Is this true? Or will the wax either A. not do anything and wash off or B. ruin the wheels?
>2/3 of the bottle squished all over my driveway. Oops. Has anyone tried Meguiars >Quick Detailer Mist and Wipe, or another brand as a substitute for Z6? I noticed >16 oz of Meguiars was half the cost of Z6.
______________________________________
EWWWWwww - Bummer!
I am using Zaino's products (Z1, Z2, etc.) and I won't use any other company's product on top of Zaino. That would defeat the whole purpose of all Zaino items. They are meant to be used together, as a 'system'. The 'other' brands may not be compatible with Zaino. May even contain oils or some other film producer. Especially bad if you were intending to put more coats of Zaino over the brand X quick detailer.
However, if you do use another quick detailer, let us know how it works out. =;-)
I tried LG a few years ago and was not impressed. As with all new products I use (automotive or not), I am one of those who actually reads directions! I followed LG's procedure to the letter and got a rather blotchy looking shine on my GM van. Some spots very shiny, others a bit dull. Tried applying an additional coat- but that did not solve the problem. I just let the stuff wear off in the course of several washings, and went back to my usual wax (Meguiars at that time) for a nice even shine.
I have no desire to try LG again.
Jon
I have used a few other "Quick Detailers" between washes, and Meguiar's seems the best of those I've tried. I think Meguiar's QD may be a better cleaner than Z6, although I haven't yet found a cooperative bird to supply droppings for a controlled test
Jon
No one, even Sal, said you can't apply Zaino over wax or vice versa. You can do it; people do it all the time to experiment and sometimes by accident.
But unless Zaino (Z1 or ZFX) is applied directly to the paint, it will not bond to the paint, and if it does not bond to the paint, it will not stay on the car as long.
So when you put Z on top of wax, it does not bond to the wax, and it will come off the car with the wax. In addition, the wax will yellow with age, while the Z polymer will not. So even if it stays on the car for months, which would be unusual, you will have a yellowing film between the Z and the paint.
So you can do it, but there is no advantage and there are good reasons not to do it.
As for putting wax on top of Zaino, I don't know why anyone would even want to waste time doing that, unless you want to dull the optical clarity and mirror finish, but that's a lot of the reason to use Z in the first place.
The ill effect you should be seeing is your time swirling around the bowl and going down the drain.
waiting three years to see that the product[s]
had an extensive " shakedown ". Before Zee I was
using a cocktail of Blitz, Collinite MDE, and P21s. After applying Zaino[alone] I found the following :
Pros :
1- shine is excellent
2- look is terrific at night and twighlight
Cons :
1- during high noon the finish on top of the car
looks not so shiney and a little dull and amplified spider webbing.
[sideview looks great though]
2- on hazy and cloudy days the presentation is a little dull IMHO [don't know why]
3- 8 coats of Z5/FXed didn't fill[hide] my swirls
4- If you use a Fielcrest/Cannon terry that's
too dry you can create marring in your Zee
Because of the Cons I topped with Blitz and it
looks fabulous. I week later I added the Collinite.
I have the Blitz and Collinite on 3 weeks now but waiting for 3 month mark to make up mind completely on this test.
But for right now at daytime I get that Blitz warmth and at night time I get that poured molten glass look. My car is british green.
The Collinite for some reason makes dark cars looks darker and it does a great job of squelching
swirls and spider webbing.
I will add the P21s after a midweek wash for that
sharp shine that lasts for that weekend. It's a thin layer and takes only a few minutes to apply as with all my carnaubas I use the " no wait time for buffing " method. So it's a ten minute a week
investment.
I think the color of your car affects the presentation of Zaino.
I also think auto detailing can be made fun by
combining items just as a great chef does with food.
My 2
I have a one-month-old car and want to apply Zaino, but feel like I should just wash the car normally. The thought of using Dawn scares me a little (will it take off the cleracoat?).