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Ford 3.8 head gasket/trans failures--"secret warranty" Part 2
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Just finished replacing the HG myself (with the help of my uncle who is a retired GM mechanic). In all it took about 10 hours labor (each of us) and $200 in parts (I changes the plugs and belts while we had it apart).
Car seems to run fine (though the check engine light still comes on sporadically - it was coming on for several month B4 the HG went). Anyone know of an easy way to get decipher the check engine lite trouble codes.
Considering a small claims case against Ford... but for $200 it hardly seems worth it. Am waiting for the class action...
Sil
Here is a site with code retrieval information.
It's a '95 LX w/ about 57k. Finally diagnosed as needing a new torque converter (of course it took a few days to get it and we had to squeeze the family into a rental chevy lumina for our trip from NJ to VT and back) but it was covered under the extended warranty and Holman ford didn't even try to charge me the extra $50 deductible for taking it back in within a week for the same problem - been almost two months now and seems to be fine.
Also, I had HG go back in the winter and got a new engine - back before extension to 100k and commitment to pick up rental car during repair. I didn't get any rental reimbursement at the time (despite calls to the clueless customer care reps - they wouldn't even give me the $25 a day the extended warranty provides, since work wasn't being done under that warranty). Recently resubmitted my rental expenses to Crest L-M in CT (of course I was on the road when it blew) explaining that now Ford was reimbursing and I should get some $ and lo & behold they were able to come through with a check!
Lesson # 1: Don't give up! and keep checking this BB for new ideas
Lesson # 2: If you're going to own a ford for more than 2 or 3 years it pays to get an extended warranty.
Thx to all for your posts & good luck!
So now big question is what we're going to do with this windfall of sorts... have 'til 3/28/01 to decide :-) Am anxious to hear reports of 2001 Windstar, the 2000 model has its share of complaints (tho, thankfully, so far nothing as major as head gasket, transmission, etc!)
Thanks to a fluke call to Ford (who was the first to mention that I was eligible due to $50 deductible payment towards head gasket repair) and also to this forum, now I can stress out over what to do next, ha!
Sharon
"DEARBORN, Mich., Feb, 25, 2000 -- In the interest of customer satisfaction, Ford
Motor Company is extending the warranty on the head gaskets on the 1994 Lincoln
Continental, 1994-1995 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable, and 1995 Ford Windstar with
3.8L V-6 engines to 7 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. The original
extension, issued in 1998, was for 5 year/60,000 miles for the Taurus, Sable and
Windstar vehicles, and 6 years/75,000 miles on Continental."
If it's damaged the engine enough to require a replacement, they will also buy back the van AND provide a $3,000 certificate towards the purchase of another vehicle.
If that dealer insists that there's no program in place, call Ford's Customer Service number, or visit another Ford dealer. You shouldn't have to pay a nickle for this repair.
Good luck.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
The van actually was great until this past year or so. Had to get new tires , plugs&wires & clean carbeurator (sp), new battery. All likely par for the course on a 5 year old vehicle with 55k on it.
Then on the way back from a camping trip the van heated up and stared blowing white smoke out the rear - the infamous head gasket problem I was so blissfully unaware of. Next the call from the dealer (Crossroads Ford, Cary, NC). Engine shot - buyback for $6,650 + $3,000 CFC (Car Failure Coupon)or 6-8 weeks for a "new" engine. Fortunately, I read this board and did research on the reliability of the Windstar and decided that the $3,000 was not worth the chance of being in this position in another 5 years. I like to keep my vehicles for 15+ years.
We went and got a Honda Odyssey LX at MSRP from Leith Honda. It will be here in about 2 weeks. My inlaws are partial to Fords and are in the market for a new car. We may end up buying a Ford car for them with the CFC (good for 6 months) and then selling it to them.
BTW - Surely we can come up with something better for the CFC than "Customer Focus Certificate".
Being mechanically inclined, I replaced the gaskets at a cost of $109.00 and about 8 hours of my time. In April 1998 we got the recall notice on head gaskets from Ford. Talk about a cowboy spinning his spurs--**^#_). I wish I was still in Calif. instead of New Mexico, else I would be in jail for assaulting a service manager at Galpin
Ford.
In Oct 1999, the head gaskets blew again at 117,000 miles. Remembered that I still had the recall notice, I took the WS to Don Chalmers in Rio Rancho, NM. They agreed it was head gaskets and started to work on the car based on the recall. Got our own rental car. Didn't know about all the programs available and the dealer didn't say
anything either.
When the WS was picked up, the dealer said the recall had expired, but they would fix the paper work and not change us anything. A week later, the WS was jerking, hesitating and shifting erratically.
Took it back to the dealer. Said it was the transmission speed sensor--replaced it at our cost. Two days later, same problems. Back to the dealer. This time they said the speed senor was
ok, just a bad computer--lost it's grounds. $480 later, it's running again. Three weeks later, same sort of problems with the shifting. The dealer says its not the speed senor, the nor the computer, it's the speedometer drive gear. They wanted $1400 to fix it--said no and took the WS home and parked it.
A few days later, the wife took 5 people to the airport (18 miles away) and on the way home, more noises from the engine. Sounds like it's in the head again, but not a blown head gasket. May be a broken valve.
Thanks to the info on the list, I may just try to get Ford to take some action on a buy back or fix it again and dump it. We will be taking delivery on our PT Cruiser in 10 days or so. Always been a Ford fan but things are changing. My 1993 Ford F250 with 7.3 diesel and AOD transmission is also dead. Tranny blew two weeks ago. Same old thing
with known Ford defects.
Any chances on Ford buying back the WS with 118,543 on the ODO with bad engine and trans?
It's 700 miles over the warranty. Ford suggestted
I work through the dealer and get a Ford regional
rep to approve the work. Hopefully this gets done
painlessly...
Mike
----
I was wondering how you arrived at $1900? Was that what you paid to get the HG replaced?
I have a '92 Cougar and replaced the HG myself. In all I spent about $150 - $200 in parts and wasted 8 hours of my time.
I'd love to get compensation from Ford, but if I'm only going to get $150... I'll wait to see if a class action gets started.
Sil
I'm no mechanic, so I am at the mercy of the dealership. They had to replace the head gaskets and repair some additional engine damage as my gaskets went at 70 mph. on the freeway. It wasn't pretty.
IMHO, if there is a class action suit, I can only imagine that the best anyone could expect is a certificate for a discount on a new Ford. Not a bad deal if one is willing to buy another Ford. I think I'll stay away for a few years before I jump back in the Ford family, which is kind of a shame because I think the new T-bird is one cool car. Oh well, maybe later.
Now we are talking about getting rid of it before the transmission and another $2000+ are blown. We have owned several Fords without these problems previously - we are just unsure if we trust Ford now.
Good Luck!
I hope it works. We'd love to see some of our money back from this mess. In the meantime we're looking at Honda and Toyota vans. Honda is my first choice, but will have to buy a 99 to try to keep the cost down. Not too many out there so far. We're trying to get rid of this car before anything else goes. I also don't want to sell to an individual because it doesn't seem morally right, knowing what we know, even if fully disclosed.
What I am wondering is this; Are there many others out there who find themselves in this position with their Windstars? If so, what can be one about this situation. If in fact there was a defect with the original part; i.e. the torque converter, how can we the consumers hold Ford accountable for reimbursement of the dollars spent.
People, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
I suggest you check out the other topics on this vehicle throughout Town Hall by keying Windstar into the Topic Search feature on the left side of the page.
Good luck.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
I felt they backed it because my 96 was actually a very early model year unit (produced in Sept. 95, sold in Nov. 95). I would dearly love to dump the thing, but following this experience, I bought an extended warranty from Allstate for $900, and damned if the thing hasn't behaved itself, except for a water pump and some minor stuff for the last year.
But if anyone says they won't cover a 96, they will - just yell loud enough, and make sure there are other customers in the general vicinity....
I can relate to you and others with electrical problems, particularly door locks. All the actuators have been replaced. I've been locked out with the engine running twice. Dealer says he can't fix. So any time I get out with the engine running, I roll down the window. My Windstar's name is "Christine"......
8/20/98 Purchased brand new LX
11/17/98 Returned to dealer for very harsh shifting in stop and go driving. Report said was normal operation!
12/8/98 Took to a dealer in Fl. for harsh shifting. Was terrible on I95 in merging traffic of constructions zones or accidents. Service technician went with me for drive and acknowledged what I complained about but stated that there is nothing that can be done and that it will not harm the transmission!
4/29/99 Returned to Pa dealer, shifting problem much worse. (7248 miles on it). They installed a piston seal, piston plate and new fluid! This did improve it a little bit but still did not seem normal to me!
4/29/99 Returned PA dealer again . Service tech went with me. He acknowledged my complaint of hard shifting (clunking) in slow traffic and stated that it is as good as it is going to get! He also stated there is an extended warranty for this problem and advised to bring it in if it got any worse. He stated it will not harm the transmission
10/6/99 Returned to selling dealer, because shifting problem appeared to be growing worse each day. Tech went with me again for a drive. Before he went with me though he took it into garage and I saw he had the hood up. Asked him what he did and he said it was low on transmission fluid. He said he put in a whole quart. I told him i did not understand why it would be low because I have had no sign of any leak on garage floor. He said the tech who worked on it in April most likely failed to fill it completly! He said it should not have caused any problem. During the drive with me I could not dublicate the rough shifting and he stated that it may have been due to low transmission fluid!!
6/14/00 Again back at PA dealer for rough shifting. This time they put in some sensor assy, pump and control etc. Seemed to improve shifting some but still not normal to me!!
11/13/00 Again back at PA dealer. During trip to NJ transmission began to slip from a dead stop. Sometimes could hardly get away from lights. Engine revved but we did not get anywhere till it shifted into 2nd. After 2 days I called service manager and asked what is going on with our Van he stated they drove it but could not tell anything was wrong! Told him that I noticed that when it was cold (engine) it did not do it. He said they would drive it again. Another 2 days later I called and asked service manager what is current status. He said they did discover the problem I complained about and they needed to put it on the computer!
Next day I stopped at dealer and asked what is the status. He (service manager) said they ordered a new transmission. He said will be about 1 day job to install it when it comes in. Asked when it will be in, he called the parts man and he said should be in Monday Nov, 27th. GRRRRRRRRRRRR Will be 2 weeks on the 27th they have had the van. I did finally get a rental (under the warranty) on 11/22/00. Got tired of fighting with wife for use of other wheels. We do like the van except for this transmission problem. However I would never recommend anyone to buy a windstar, nor will we replace it with one at such time we get another vehecle. Van currently has 21,400 miles on it! The new trans will have a 24 month/24,000 mile, so providing there are no new problems we will probably keep it another 2 years!
We bought the van last year with 24K on it. It's been great except for the gas mileage and that reall stinks.
This was my first purchase of a Ford product and will probably be my last. My friend that talked me into getting a Windstar is now scared of his and may dump it.
We had a 93 Chrysler minivan that was a nightmare. I finally gave up last year trying to get mileage out of it for all of the transmission overhauls, air conditioning problems and other misc. problems we spent big bucks on. I fear I may be heading down the same road again. We still have about 1 1/2 years of warranty left, so I'll see what happens.
1. Is Ford still replacing head gaskets/engines on 1995 3.8 Windstars?
2. Are they still offering buybacks and $4k extra rebate if you buy another?
If anyone has done this in the last month or two, it would be great to hear your story.
Thanks.
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/ford.htm