Integra Type R's, Celica GTS, Prelude Sh, Eclipse GT, Which car is better

gqlangjai · January 2000

Hi, im in the market for a new car.. I am looking
for great performance. But not pricey on the
insurance. I also require some room for me since i
am 6 foot 3. I am currently looking around and i
have narrowed it down to these cars. if anyone has
test drove them or has any comments or suggestions
please post..
thanks
the cars are the
integra type r
celica GT-s
Prelude Sh
Eclipse GT

eric222220 · January 2000

gqlangjai-
you said your looking for great performance, and out of the 4 cars the type R is the one. its got plenty of room since its a hatchback. however insurance is another thing. insurance for a tpye R would be high.

for some, the type R would be too much on the performance side. a great performace/daily driver car would be the prelude. it handles very well and provides more comfort.oh and if you do decide to get the prelude, get the base model. the SH is over priced if you compare the 2 trims.

sorry, but the new eclipse in my opinion is just a failure. i dont like the look. but even worse, the eclipse lost the turbo which takes all the fun out of it.

look into the celica. i havent test driven that car yet. im sure it performs well. however that car is way too light for me. and its soo small.

tell us what you decide on

spnx · January 2000

According to the information on Edmunds, the Type R Integra is 2600 lbs, and the Celica GT-S is 2500 lbs. That's only a 100 lb difference, so you'd really have to say well, the Type R is also way too light and small, just like the Celica.

OTOH, light and small can be good! My two cars are 2500 and 2000 lbs :-)

only1harry · January 2000

Well, you probably won't fit in the Celica GT-S because most of them come with sunroofs, or you could fit but you 'll me like me and my GSR that hit my head in the ceiling every time I hit a big bump.. :-)
I 'm 6'2 and I fit in the Type-R just fine with about 1.5-2" headroom left.
Don't like the Eclipse but you should be able to fit in the Prelude just fine.
All are pretty good cars but the best performing one is the Type-R but then again you 'll probably never take full advantage of that car's capabilities on the street unless you autocross race or take it to a real track. You need to push the car to get its Limited Slip Differential to work. Just test drive all of them and make your own decision. The Eclipse should be a little less reliable than the others and have a lower resale value.. but if you fit better in that car then what can I say..

roadroach · January 2000

I agree with only1harry when he says "test drive all of them and make your own decision". I'm 6'1" and drive a GTS with the sunroof. Don't have any problem with headroom but its a pretty good drop to get in. I know the stats I posted before for the GTS were w/o the sunroof; I don't know about the others (sunroof standard on GS-R, Type-R?). Another thing I've found through personal experience with several cars: stats can be very deceiving. Just because a car list XX" for legroom/headroom etc. doesn't necessary mean you will fit in Car A better than Car B. If you can't test drive each, AT LEAST sit in each one on the showroom. Test things like control locations, ease of adjusting seat/mirrors, etc. I must commend you (6'3") for at least taking the time to LOOK at this class of car. Most people your size would just automatically assume they wouldn't fit and start looking at a SUV or some such.

mzn · January 2000

Speaking as one vertically challenged myself, I second (or third or... ) the suggestion that you try them all and see what fits. I had four cars on my list when I ended up getting another VW Golf. It was the one that fit me best. If you like to drive and you plan to do it often, feeling comfortable is essential in my book.

carlady/host

roadroach · January 2000

I can't believe we've got a topic like this and we've gone this far without lobbing a few shells.

OK, I'll start.......

Type-R's are two much money and u can't dicker on the $$$ because therz not enuf outthere and 'ludes look funny unless u put on a huge honkin' wing and they got like a trunk 'stead of a hatch and the Mitsus look like grand ams wot wit the plastik on the side and all dat dont matta cuz my new GTS RUUUUULLLLLZZZZZZ!!!!!

(pant, pant, pant)

OK, I'm done. Now where did I put my meds.....?

gqlangjai · January 2000

well i basically test drove all of them...
one thing was i couldnt get the integra type r so the dealer let me drive in a Gsr. i think...
well first off the integra was ok.. but after seeing it over and over and over again the body just didnt look good. it was getting annoying staring at those 4 lights in the front of the car
then went to the prelude... it was actually quite comfortable.. i fit perfectly.. it was very luxurious.. everything seemed to fit into my hand..
and the acceleration was pretty good...
the eclipe felt a little tooo heavy.. and just had a hard time enjoying it...
the celica. barely fit... my legs kepy hitting the steering column..
but the ride was nice and everything felt good. i currently own a hyundai and it is very cramped so i could live with the interior.. even slept in my car a couple of times too..
i guess i got it narrowed to the prelude and the celica.
i was also wondering are there alot of aftermarket products for the two..?
performance enhancing as well as body.
well thanks for the input
and btw
any other suggestions for cars?

prelude_5gen · January 2000

Sorry couldn't resist. Anyone who spells rules with a z and without a e has to be flogged. Proper english is a lost art I think. Anyway, every single one of those cars has it's "best" quality - you just have to figure out which one is for you. The lude offered me the most room with one of the best I4's in the business so that's the one I went with.

mzn · January 2000

No need to lob any shells, I've got the fire extinguisher ready to roll. :-)

carlady/host

gqlangjai · January 2000

does anyone think that the new mr2 spyder will be roomy or able to fit me?...
i really liked the miata. the downside is that i couldnt even get in. would this be the same with the mr2?

gqlangjai · January 2000

does anyone think that the new mr2 spyder will be roomy or able to fit me?...
i really liked the miata. the downside is that i couldnt even get in. would this be the same with the mr2?

mzn · January 2000

Are there other hatchbacks to consider?

carlady/host

tmc1688 · February 2000

Anyone interested in the Celica GTS performance should check out the video Best Motoring from Japan. It shows the performance of the Celica GTs or Celica SS II as they call it in Japan. It demonstrates the quarter mile vs. the civic type R and IS 300 (Altezza). And at the end of the demonstration they put several cars together for a 3 lap race against the Integra type R, Civic type R, S2000, and IS300 manual. Here is the address, I hope this works, if not start on goto.com and look for Best Motoring.

http://www.goto.com/d/sr?xargs=00u3hs9yoahSumGpxqaqgGlOZEyWV6KfkZqbklxYmpIClA1bVBxICSotS82yL8lIL0nMzS1NTihCKWvRZO5mambkauro5mLi5uECaNi5LU8xPz8m0KgJNpRubn5JdlF6XmnENqowSUBRZw0gAJOOCMLw%3D%3D

mzn · February 2000

tmc1688's post is hidden above because it contains a link that skews our screen view. To read the post, just click on "Hidden."

carlady/host

qword · February 2000

I'm with Carlady(post #14) isn't there one more hatchback that people could maybe consider? I know that most mags gave the GTI a bum rap when compared to these other cars, but it's still a pretty fast little car with an incredible amount of torque that lets you achieve high speeds without having to push the car nearly to it's limits.

ipo · February 2000

The power curve on the GTS is still ugly - Toyota has a ways to go before VVTiL can match the performance of VTEC.

The Type R is simply in a class of its own, although the GSR and GTS are fairly comparable in terms of overall performance.

only1harry · February 2000

The Type-R remains the king of FW sports cars.

Motortrend TV did a roadtest of a '00 ITR on Speedvision cable station and it looks like they finally learned how to drive a VTEC car.
The results:

0-60 in 6.2s!!
1/4mi - 14.8s!!

They were supposed to compare it to the Celica
GT-S but they didn't. They 're supposed to do the GT-S on the next TV show.. don't know when.
These roadtests will also be published in Motortrend magazine in the next month or two.
The Celica will never get these #s.. nor will the Eclipse..

robertsmx · February 2000

Qword:
Pushing these high revvers is all the fun they're talked about. Golf VR6 would give more low end power but it cannot rev and handle like 'em, not forgetting how its shifter compares.

only1harry · February 2000

Very well put.
I agree with you on most of the points you made but another reason I avoid the Celica is because it's the smallest of the bunch. It reminds me of my '90 Geo Storm too much. I parked right next to one in a shopping center and my GSR looked about 20% bigger! This is how Toyota achieved the light weight, by reducing the overall size of the car.
The Type-R by no means to me would be like a weekend car and I wouldn't use it for every day commute unless your job or school is like under 10 mi. away. Although it sounds awesome and powerful (actually better than that but I don't have the words to describe it) under moderate to heavy acceleration, it is too loud for every day use and the average commuter. It can get addicting driving the car though and it doesn't bother the serious enthousiast who bought it purely for its performance. I get goose bumps when I floor the gas pedal in the ITR. It's music to my ears :-) and I like its agility even better.
It truly is a very well balanced machine that you need to take to the track to appreciate it and explore its limits. Although I have taken 90 deg. turns with it at 40mph and have crossed 3 lanes in an instant at 100+mph (and back to the originating lane, hehe) on the highway like it was nothing, it is nowhere near its limits which are difficult to reach on regular roads with other cars (& cops) around..
BTW, Autoweek said there will only be 1 Integra for '01 and it will be the Type-R with a 2.0L 217hp powerplant. It will be more readily available and mass produced but may not carry the "R" name. I guess they 're looking to brake the 6s mark?

robertsmx · February 2000

I am hoping that they make Integra coupe/sedan the IS200/300 basher with FR setup with 2.0 (some for USA, great for Japan/Europe) as well as a small V6 (2.5-2.8 liter), with auto as well as manual transmissions, and keep Prelude as affordable, small engine, light weight FF sports coupe/car. And keep Civic Si/SiR/Type-R going for the young like it is, now.

projectzx3 · February 2000

Scrap all of the aforementioned cars and buy a Ford Focus ZX3. That's right. Read the reviews. Better yet drive one. I bought a G60 Corrado back in 1990. My son's new ZX3 reminds me so much of that car. 0-60 6.9 sec / 17.1 sec 1/4 mile. Better yet 30mpg @1.40 gallon. Ford has built a winner. I am not saying the Focus is comparable to the likes of a Type R, Celica etc. BUT, invest the other 14K! Worth thinking about.

prelude_5gen · February 2000

What are ya smokin? It's a fine car but could you direct me to the article that says it does 6.9 and 17.1? It simply doesn't generate enough torque to do that... Ford released numbers of upwards of 9 for 0-60 which falls in line with what a car in its class can do. Do not buy this car if you want a fast car

projectzx3 · February 2000

First of all I don't smoke anything. Second of all, put your pipe down... grab yourself the February 2000 Edition of 'Automobile Magazine'(one of the most highly regarded automotive magazines in print today). They named the Focus ZX3 'Car of the Year'...OH and on page 68 it lists the 6.9 0-60 time and the 17.1 1/4 mile time. By the way i own one. Go test drive one and then you tell me. You've got alot to learn.

nutype · February 2000

Has to be a typeo because how can a car go 0-60 faster then a GSR but go the quarter mile like a caravan.

prelude_5gen · February 2000

For what you get - it's a great car - not bad handling - not bad acceleration. I never questioned the quality of it - you don't win car of the year awards from several different magazines without something to back it up. I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't belong in this category. Civic DX and EX, ZX3, Golf are all candidates if your into those cars. I might also mention that the imports are more fuel efficient at a normal pace than the ford - just thought I'd let you know.

eric222220 · February 2000

prelude 5-gen
where did you get those numbers for the prelude? just wondering. cuz the lowest 1/4 mile time ive seen was like a 15.4.
and what model, base or SH?
thanks

oh and one more question, but a bit off topic.

my friend keeps telling me that his 99 Civic Si can beat a prelude Type SH. considering both stock
i keep telling him no. am right rite?

robertsmx · February 2000

I'd say you're. It'd also depend on the drivers though, but considering them both equal, Prelude SH will be faster all the way.

davidgti · February 2000

According to this edition of Road and Track the VW GTI is faster than almost all the cars mentioned here.

Celica 0-60 6.8 sec
Eclipse 0-60 7.0 sec
Integra GS-R 0-60 7.2 sec

VW GTI 0-60 6.8 sec

In the 1/4 mile too...

Celica 15.4 sec
Eclipse 15.3 sec
Integra GS-R 15.6 sec

VW GTI 15.3 sec

I must admit I own one, so I am a litle biased, but I drove them all and read everything I could before making my purchase.

I really am in love with this little car, so far and think that there is nothing like the feel of a German auto. If you can't afford a Porsche the GTI is a must drive and best of all, you won't see thousands of cars that look just like yours!

rascal8 · February 2000

Good grief, I see this on EVERY SINGLE message board where cars are compared. Is there anything else you all appreciate about your cars except that it can go .001 seconds faster than another ? Comparing magazine times like this is ridiculous. I'm outta here.

navy4 · February 2000

Just how fast is .01 of a second. Who cares, do you like the car?

only1harry · February 2000

Look at Car & Driver's recent 7 car comparison test too (where the GTI came in 5th behind the GSR!):

Prelude (base) was also 6.8s in 0-60 and 15.3 in the 1/4. I 'd say that makes them equal.
Even the GSR came in 4th ahead of the GTI because of its better handling characteristics, road feel, gearbox, etc.
The GTI lost to a car that has been unchanged for 7 years! (GSR) I 'm not bashing the GTI. I happen to like it for its respectable torque, afterall it's a V6, but speed alone does not tell the whole story..

gqlangjai · February 2000

hmmm well i was just checking some references
and i doubt that the zx3 can do high 6s
the hp and torque are around 130 if i am not mistaken
unless your car is extremely modified with bolt on and other such sorts. i highly do not even think that. but if its true i am a sure buyer

robertsmx · February 2000

Not even t-charged Focus ZX3 could do better than a GS-R in a straight line run in one of the tests (Motor Trend?).

roadroach · February 2000

You're right about the blown focus zx3, it did seem a little slow in the test (I think it was in C&D where I saw it). Not so unusual for a very preproduction mule....

(couldn't even beat a GS-R? I guess it WAS slow.....sorry man, sometimes I just can't help myself 8^)

robertsmx · February 2000

For about 70 more horses, and 80 lb.-ft torque, and about same weight, it was slow!

roadroach · February 2000

Just out of curiosity, how did the Focus ZX3 get thrown in to this topic? I just can't see a potential buyer trying to decide between Prelude, Celica GTS, Integra Type R (or GS-R) or......Focus ZX3. (maybe vs. Cougar though...)

freddy_k · March 2000

I had come down to either the Celica or Prelude as my next car, leaning more on the side of the Celica. In my considerations were the VR6, Cougar and GSR. Then I sat in the Mazda Miata for the first time at the autoshow, and it seemed so comfortable and sporty and well built I had to test drive it. So I did.
Anyway, aside then it's lack of acceleration and storage and passenger room, this little car that I never even thought to try before surpassed in fun and performance all those cars I was previously considering. I hate to say it, I always saw the miata as a 'chick car' but I am sold.

roadroach · March 2000

I have to agree, the Miata is a great little car. I had to have something with the capacity to carry more than just 2 people though so it just wasn't in my picture.

jk111 · March 2000

Miata is a great car, direct feel with the road, and hella fun to drive. But don't try to drag race anyone with it

mrspeed · March 2000

I don't want to start a new topic so I'm posting here, since some of the cars mentioned here compete in the Speedvision Touring events: (quote from the SCCA proracing website http://www.sccaproracing.com/wc/index.html)
"The Speedvision Touring Car
Championship, dubbed The Official Racing
Series of the Sports Compact Revolution,
features the Acura Integra Type R, Audi A4,
BMW 328, Ford Focus and Contour, Honda
Accord, Civic Si and Prelude Si, Mazda
Protege and 626, Mercury Cougar, Mercedes
230, Nissan 240 SX, Pontiac Sunfire, Saturn
SC, Subaru Legacy, Toyota Celica GTS and
Volkswagen GTI and Jetta."

In case anybody was wandering, the Type R has dominated since it came out, with BMW a distant second. The Celica GTS and Saleen (Ford) Focus are new this year.

mzn · March 2000

No need to start a new topic, please see our racing topic in the News & Views conference!

carlady/host

cinemafia · April 2000

I wonder of the mysterious 0-60 time posted previously was in fact from the Focus R? The Focus R, for those of you who don't know, is a pretty nicely tunes version of the zx3 hatch with a turbo and intercooler that makes about 200-220 hp.
I'm dying to see what Saleen's done with the Focus though...where can I find some pics?? From all the oodles of money Ford's made off the Expedition/Explorer craze they've put together a very nicely researched and developed a really nice car that will live on in the hands of tuners/enthusiasts for at least a decade or two. It's kinda nice actually, I mean to have an American sport-hatchback that actually competes with encumbant Civics from Japan and re-invigorated Golfs from Germany. It's almost enough to give you a little pride in the U.S. auto industry...well ok that's a long shot, especially when the entire Chrysler company brings it down so far...lol.

cinemafia · April 2000

Well I tried looking on Saleen website, but there's no mention of it...and I tried a search for "focus saleen" but turned up nothing...so uh, mrspeed, where the heck did you find any inof about it??!

mrspeed · April 2000

If you're referring to my post (#46) about touring class racing, there is a link in the post that takes you to that web site. I believe the article referred to the Focus prepped by Saleen for racing in the various Touring championship events and it might be a one of a kind.

robertsmx · April 2000

cinemafia:
Unfortunately, the "American" pride comes in form of "Euro-touch", per Ford! (thats what the commercials have to say, although the American Focus is much stripped version of its Euro counterpart).

cinemafia · April 2000

Yeah I know Robert, I was being fecetious, lol. Any pride in American automobile manufacturing nowadays is a direct result of European/Japanese influences.

cinemafia · April 2000

Oh so it was a one of kind, I should've guessed. It would be nice to see Saleen tuning something other than Mustangs and Explorers for the masses though, wouldn't it? If they could make a $20k-$25k Focus Saleen for the market I think it would do well. Oh well thanks for the info.

jk111 · April 2000

actually, with the new Focus R, Honda will be forced to bring over the civic R.. that will rule!

mrspeed · April 2000

We need more power! (and lighter, fuel efficient cars)

cscott1 · April 2000

There is no question in my mind that the eclipe is the best package. Drove a Celica GT-S and wasn't as impressed as I should have been for a $23,000 sticker. I fell in love with the Mitsu in the first 15 min. And I was test driving a car with a sticker $2,000 less. The Eclipse give more power, more room and in-town drivability, for less money. Go for an Eclipe!!

Integra Type R's, Celica GTS, Prelude Sh, Eclipse GT, Which car is better

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