A nicely balanced tire. Performed great yesterday in the accumulating snow. I'm in NY (Mid-Hudson Valley), and, like you, really need a snow/ice tire 10-15 days out of the entire winter on average. But when you need it, it is well worth it...
Thanks Steve. I am now considering the Dunlop Wintersport M2's.
Yesterday I took a trip to Binghamton, NY from my home on Long Island. I used my wife's 2002 Audi A4 Quattro with Michelin Pilot all season tires for the 400 mile roundtrip. The route I selected was Route 17 through the lower Catskill mountains to both see the wintertime beauty of the mountains and see how the Audi performed. I left the Subaru Outback in the garage since I'd piled up the miles on a recent vacation to Florida.
Early in my trip I witnessed a 1990 Toyota Corrolla fly by me in the left lane at about 70mph and lose control after hitting some black ice. It passed in front of me on its way into the ditch off the right side of the road. I stopped and let the two fellows use my cell phone to call for help. They were wearing seats belts and were unhurt. They were from Georgia and not used to the slippery stuff.
From that point I completely lost my nerve. Has that ever happened to anyone? I kept my speed at 40-50mph and let everyone pass me. I felt slippage only once from the ice but the trip was tense and slow after that. Since I could have used the Interstate highways for this journey I got no sympathy from friends and family for wanting to commune with nature. What I did get was a new appreciation for the danger of winter motoring in the remote areas of New York State. Imagine 56 years old and still learning.
I love your posts from Fairbanks, Alaska. I can't imagine -50 temps living on Long Island. It reminds me of a Jack London short story, "To Build a Fire". A man is trapped when he breaks his leg in -75 degree Alaska weather and can't get a fire built because his matches get wet. He finally trys to lure his dog to use the dog's insides to warm his frozen feet. But the dog instinctively is too smart and leaves him to find other humans with fires since this human is not going to be providing anymore benefits. It's cruel in nature is the point I think.
I have had days like that, Bob. There doesn't necessarily have to be something significant that triggers it, but I, like you, have found that it is best to listen to myself and slow it down. It doesn't matter so much about the capability of the vehicle; the capability of the driver is the key factor. It's too bad it affected your trip, but perhaps you can make the jaunt again one of these days and feel more comfortable doing it.
-76.... I don't even want to consider it. I'm sure I would be a gonner even at -50 if not for the close proximity of heated spaces.... my winter wardrobe is grievously undersupplied!
It has warmed back up to -41 now and I'm happy about that. It actually feels noticeably warmer than yesterday's low of -54. Temps are supposed to continue to rise into the weekend and we should be back up to 0 by Saturday - just in time to break out the shorts and lawn chairs! ;D
-Wes-
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Your story is not unique. I am sure that we have all had something happen to us that changes that 'invincible' feeling to appropriate/over caution.
Route 17 is beautiful, but has some tricky sections that can get very nasty and unpredictable in the winter. These days, I rarely have reason to go much past Monticello (exit 105), or at most, Livingston Manor. When I was in college, I sometimes went this way from my parents home in Massapequa up to Potsdam, NY (Clarkson University). In my '72 Mercury Montego with bias belted studded snows!
BTW, Rt 17 is slated to be upgraded and become interstate 86, IIRC.
Drove on the Taconic Pkwy this morning sending up rooster tails from deep pools of standing water from the rain and melting snow. It made me really appreciate the deeper, more open tread of the Dunlops (and of course AWD).
In bad weather the Taconic is defintely a place for snows. With all it's twists and turns it's a lot of fun. We took part of it last week, and with wet roadways due to rain and sleet it was interesting to say the least.
As for "loosing your nerve" on the 48hrs coming down I81/496 at one point I tried passing an 18 wheeler to catch up to everyone else. I hit an icy spot, felt the car shift under me a bit so I slowed it down. Thankfully this was jsut before pulling off at a rest area.
>>Subarus handle with tenacity in any conditions with nothing more than all-seasons. Drive with common sense and within the capability of you and your Subaru, and you'll not have problems while saving some hard-earned $$$. I have yet to buy winter tires for my '96, and even this morning after a night of rain on our constantly icy roads followed by 4 inches of heavy wet snow early this morning, I held 50-60 all the way in to work (that's on 55 mph roads, no luxury highways up here!) with my old Goodyear Allegras without problems and I honestly don't think I was pushing the capabilities of me or the car. In the worst of conditions, I'll sometimes have to slow down to about 40 on these same roads, but that's in conditions that preclude some driver/vehicle combos from even being able to navigate the roads.<<
I used to think the same thing until I got an 05 Honda Accord and put Nokian MRi's on it. We did a back-to-back test with three drivers and my 97 Outback wagon with Michelin HydroEdge all-season M&S rated tires, which I have been very pleased with. The FWD Honda stopped and turned better than the Subaru. The Subaru accelerated more securely on snowy hills, but the Honda got there.
If you live in the mountains the Subaru with Nokians would be well worth it. But no one should forget that AWD has a cost in purchase price, maintenance, and mpg. I drove the 05 Legacy and with the 2.5 and 4spd and felt it was just too slow. My 97 isn't faster, but it's paid for.....
Ah, yes! You're not going to see better performance out of an AWD on stopping/turning in ice (especially) if there are tire differences. The Sub definitely handles better in snow conditions on curves than a FWD when you're dealing with ruts, etc. The Subaru's stopping is awesome compared to my '69 Chevy, but now is that really a comparison??? The ABS makes the biggest difference there and that can be had on anything these days. My argument was simply that there's no reason to rush out and buy dedicated winter tires that are designed strictly for snow and ice conditions, then put them on a car for 4 or 5 months just to wear them out on dry pavement. But, like I said, peace of mind can mean a lot to some folks and you just have to weigh the costs vs. the benefits. I should buy winter tires because they would help - a lot - and we have enough snow/ice days to warrant it. But, I can get by fine without them just by exercising some add'l caution when due. For me, the extra $300 yearly expense (assuming new tires every other year) is not worth it. The $1000 - $1500 per year in maintenance is enough!
My 97 isn't faster, but it's paid for..... Here, Here! And, we keep paying for them, don't we? Haha. Dedicatd AWD does have its drawbacks, but I find it good to have available with a 1-car family....
I drove FWD Camrys through several winters and they did handle quite respectably (without winter tires) so I know what the FWD can do. It sure can't barrel through deep snow like the AWD does, though. What's the ground clearance on that Accord? I'd love to have one (or similiar) if we had a second car (for commuting/errands), but I'd be digging myself out at least 5 times a year if I didn't have the option to drive the AWD on those days.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
true winter tires provide better stopping distances in snow/ice, something AWD traction has no effect on. CR found tires like the Blizzak stopped the car in a car and half length less than all seasons on snow.
I'd take a FWD and traction control and winter tires than any of my Subarus with all seasons (esp those lousy RE92s) in the snow any day.
best thing for a good laugh is to watch someone in a AWD Audi or Mercedes with summer tires, or even worn all seasons, try get anywhere in the snow!
I concur. The ABS or AWD or stability control control only the wheel speed. They have NO control over the tire/road interface, and that's the critical control parameter! TIRES are the MOST important, and cheapest component in any vehicles control system.
Can someone explain to me the difference between the AWD systems used in the 4 and 6 cylinder automatics?
I understand that the 4 cylinder system puts more power to the front wheels (80-20?)and the 6 cylinder is 45-55. Why the different system in the 6 cyclinder? Is it a more sophisticated system that would handle better in the snow or just different?
The H6 models now use VTD with the 45/55 split you mention. Its main benefit is driving feel -- the slight rear bias is more neutral and gives a more sporty feel. The non-turbo H4 automatic models have active AWD with the 80/20 or 90/10 split (I don't think we know for sure) which has a FWD bias. This will understeer quite a bit and is not sporty feeling at all.
The thing to keep in mind is that active AWD can proactively distribute power F/R -- it would send it forward under braking to minimize dive, and send it aft under acceleration to minimize squat. So that makes it somewhat versatile in everyday driving from a safety standpoint.
Both systems are good in the snow and will transfer power around when slippage occurs. To me, the main benefit of VTD is that it gives a better driving feel in everyday driving on dry roads. The automatic WRX and automatic Outback XT/ Legacy GT models also use VTD for this very reason
The latest Car and Driver magazine has a comparison between the WRX STi and Evo that helps to emphasize Craig's point. At the end of the article is a sub-article comparing the two AWD systems.
The STi uses a slightly more advanced form of VTD with manual control. The Evo uses a FWD until slip system so it would behave closer to Active AWD. The STi, despite it's suspension tuning disadvantage, posted better performance figures on dry track than the Evo. The writers at C&D attribute it to the difference in the AWD systems.
Does anyone have advice on replacement tires for an 2001 OB? I live in NJ and would like an all season tire. My main concern is handling followed by low noise. Needs to be good in rain and snow as this is our main child caring car.
I would look at Tirerack.com or ask here on the "Ask Connor at the Tire Rack" forum.
He will likely recommend the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, a Grand Touring all-season that provides great ride/noise comfort and excellent wet/dry grip and handling.
If you want more performance, look at the BF Goodrich Traction T/A-H or the Yokohama Avid 4S. For Ultra-High Performance, the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or Continental ContiExtremContact.
Got an '05 Legacy GT sedan. About 1 month after I bought it, the clutch started to squeak quite noticeably whenever it was engaged and disengaged. Dealer lubed a bushing which didn't work, then replaced the clutch and brake pedal. This seemed to fix it for a while, but it has now returned.
Anyone is with a similar issue or have any advice?
I have a 97 Toyota 4-Runner 4WD. I live in So. California and use the 4WD mainly for winter driving in the Sierra Nevada mountains for skiing. About once a year I go on a trip to Baja and camp on the beach for a long weekend. To get to the beach where I go, you have to go on some pretty rough trails requiring 4WD.
I am considering selling the 4-Runner and buying an OBXT 5-speed because I want a smaller more sporty vehicle that will still give me the skiing utility.
I am sure the OBXT cannot perform off-road like the 4-runner, but does anyone have experience with this car on rough trails? Other than lower ground clearance, how fragile is the OB?
Does anyone have advice on replacement tires for an 2001 OB? I live in NJ and would like an all season tire. My main concern is handling followed by low noise. Needs to be good in rain and snow as this is our main child caring car.
We have Michelin HydroEdge on our '97 OBW and the are superb all-around tires.
After 32,000 miles they still have 9/32nd" tread (new is 11/32nd).
The Goodyear TripleTread, which also has an asymmetrical tread, is also gaining favor among Scubie owners and others.
I have an OBXT 5MT and drive it on a rough dirt trail everyday to get to my house. It is actually very comfotrable and competent on rough roads. The ground clearance is actually really good at 8.7", that's 1.2" higher then what my Highlander had.
The only drawback is that it doesn't have a low-range, so it doesn't "crawl" over rocks very well. If you need to do any of that, I would get the auto, the manual is impossible to crawl.
Oh nad BTW, just last week I pulled my neighbor's brand new 2005 4Runner V8 out of the snow bank. He had just done an inadvertant 180 and got stuck in the snow bank facing the wrong way. I hadn't even noticed the trail was slippery.
My wife's family has a riverfront cabin at the bottom of a rocky/muddy hill about 1/4 mile long. In really bad conditions (like after rain storms) our Subarus (Foresters and Outbacks) are really the only vehicles nimble enough go up and down the hill without drama. Several 4X4 trucks and SUVs have gotten in trouble there, mostly because of their size. So in some senses, I would say the OB XT will be better than a 4-Runner. It really depends on the level of offroading you do. If it's really true 4x4 terrain, then nothing will be as good as a body-on-frame 4x4 vehicle with locking diffs and low range, and the OB XT would be over its head by a long shot. If however, we're talking about terrain that still looks more or less like a road, then the OB XT should be OK. It has a good amount of ground clearance and a lot of suspension travel, and the turbo motor is a torque monster.
I agree with Sly, definitely get auto-trans if you are concerned about offroad capability -- it gives you a lot more control and finesse which would otherwise be clutch stink on a MT!
My Wife and I are trying to choose between a 2005 Forester XS (or L.L. Bean) and a 2005 Outback 2.5i Limited. They are both GREAT vehicles, but my Wife prefers the Forester and I like the Outback. Just curious what would make those on the board choose one over the other.
I 'thought' I wanted a Forester when I bought my '01 Outback in fall, 2000. I liked the 'look' of the Forester better. Once I drove the Outback, I was hooked. I thought the Outback felt more like a 'car' than an SUV. There's also quite a bit more 'usable' cargo space in the Outback to my way of thinking. Where the Forester seems 'taller' in the back, the Outback has more floor cargo area behind the rear seat. For me, it made a lot more sense.
Well, up to 2004, I would have said the Forester was sportier to drive, but the 05 Outback has excellent handling and now corners flatter and handles better than the Forester. The Forester still feels a little more nimble overall, but the Outback definitely corners better now. I would also say the Outback is a bit more modern. However, the 06 Forester will probably close the gap there too.
We have owned both Outbacks and Foresters and they have been great cars. You really can't go wrong with either.
Brenda - my story sounds almost identical (except for the years). My wife and I were getting ready to go for the Forester, when instead we wound up going for the OB. I've never looked back since.
I found the OB to be fun and sporty, able to carry just about anything, anyplace. Either one is good. Enjoy whichever way you go.
I once sold 2002 & 2003 model Subaru's. As I recall from training classes, on all 5 speed models the torque from the engine is split equally 50/50 over the front and rear drive axles. All subies with a 5 speed (except new STI) work that way. Therefore, if you apply a good deal of torque to make the car go, the rear wheels can easily break loose on ice while they trying to 'push' the car forward. This slipage causes the rear of the car to try and pass the front.
With an automatic the AWD feature works differently. Under normal driving conditions, torque from engine is applied 90/10 in favor of the front drive wheels. But let any wheel, front or rear, start to loose grip and the torque will quickly be redirected up to a 50/50 split between the front and rear. It may even become 60/40 or 70/30 or some other combination, depending upon the severity.
In addition, if the rear axle is a limited slip differential type (which I believe many OB models come standardly equipped, but not so on Legacy models), then the torque to the rear wheels automatically gets applied to the left or right wheel with the most grip. This helps to significantly avoid all the fishtail drama.
I have a '97 OB wagon (over 100K) and '99 SUS sedan (60K), both are automatics. Try as I may, it is very difficult to get the rear end to try and pass the front, even on glare ice. I love both my cars and will never ever be without a Subie!
Hi everyone, I just bought a 2000 outback and was wondering if it has a Air Fitration/Pollen Filter in it. The previous owner was a smoker and if it has a filter I would like to change this.Thanks
I will have to check out the door when I get my car back from the dealer. I picked up my car on Wed. and took it back on Sat. The belt keep squealing and the power steering wasn't working properly.
Well, the wife and I are thinking of trading in our '02 Outback for the '05 Outback 2.5i model. The main thing that I keep wrangling with in my head is whether this is a wise move, so I'm looking for some advice. Our current Outback has 94,000 miles on it (we put about 30,000 miles/year on both of our Subies). The extended warranty (which pretty much paid for itself) ends in 6,000 miles. I know I need to get the timing belt replaced soon (about $200). Are there any major things I should be aware of with the 2.5L engines beyond 100,000 miles?
The car will be paid off in 2 more years, at which point it will have about 150,000 miles on it. So I am mainly trying to decide - trade in now while it still has warranty and some value (trade-in $$ only about $9500 due to the mileage) or wait two more years and trade in once it is paid off?
I worked out the numbers and we can basically swap this Outback for a new one and keep the exact same car payments, which is a pretty good testament to its resale value.
Are you interested in a turbo or non-turbo vehicle?
Anyway, I've been tracking gas mileage in an Excel spreadsheet since my car was new. I have a 2001 Outback 2.5 (non-turbo)with 5spd stick.
My average mileage is just under 24 MPG and I seem to get that regardless of whether it's my commute mileage or highway road trip mileage. My commute is 20% city, 80% expressway. On highway road trips I use highways where the posted speed is 75 mph, and I usually cruise at that or slightly above. I've only hit the EPA highway estimate of 26 mpg ONCE and that was a road trip in July where the outside temp was really high.
I wish Subaru would add an overdrive gear to their transmissions! The engines turn at 3,500 rpm at a highway speed of 75 mph. I would think the engines would have enough torque at a lower RPM to maintain highway speeds, and have the potential to deliver much better gas mileage. For fast acceleration at speed, I'll wager most of us stick drivers know how to do a downshift !
I am not a good source of advice since I am on my third Outback and looking towards the fourth already! I would say if the upgrades and refinements in the 05 appeal to you and you don't mind carrying car payments longer into the future, then go for it (my 05 is significantly better than my 02 was). However, I think your 02 could go to 150K miles easily as long as you continue to maintain it.
Well, you all know how I like a good story. As a bonus, I figure this can perhaps help Jason out as well.
Right now, I'm sitting at 177,516 on my '96 OB and plan to have it another 3 years as our sole "daily driver" @ ~22K/year. Average $ spent yearly in maintenance is $1000-1500, 80% do-it-yourself.
1am Saturday night (well, Sunday morning), I was coming home from a friend's place when my water pump bit the hay. At -15F, it was lucky for me that I was only about a mile away from the house of an acquaintance. I limped along, carefully managing the car's temp to keep it from seriously overheating, and finally made it inside a warm house at a little after 2am. I spent 6 hours working on it yesterday in their shop and replaced the water pump and thermostat, along with other general maintenance items like changing the oil, filter, air filter, and timing belt (with 95K on it, it was due!). Overall, the work went extremely smooth and I consider myself fortunate to have such helpful friends and acquaintances. So, total maintenance expenses thus far for 2005 is $250. Not bad, but with adding tires this summer to oil changes, etc., I have another ~$600 in planned expenses so I hope that there are no big surprises.
Jason, if you don't care about extending the car payments (which it doesn't look like you do considering that you plan to trade in after paying off the '02 anyway) and you do not do maintenance yourself, I'll go with Craig and say trade if the '05 is more appealing to you. Maintenance and repair expenses at least double and more often triple if you have all the work performed by a service provider.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
We have a 2000 Outback Limited Wagon with a grand total of 30,000 miles on it. that's right, 30,000.
We had it in for the 30k maintainance about 2 weeks ago and have developed a coolant leak since that time. I can't tell where the leak is coming from.
I called the dealer and they asked if we had the cooling system recall done on it. No we haven't. Didn't know about it. The service writer said to bring it in and they would do the recall work and if that didn't fix the problem they would replace the head gasket.
There is an additive they should have put in the coolant at the 30K maintenance (when the coolant is supposed to be replaced), and that constitutes the "recall". So they should have done it!! Anytime the coolant is replaced, the additive is supposed to be mixed in at the same time.
If the leak appeared right after the servicing, then I would suspect they screwed something up.
How do you know you have a leak -- are you losing coolant?? Is there a smell of coolant?? Can you see it dripping somewhere??
If the level is just down, I suspect they may have left an air bubble in the system that got purged, and you should add coolant to bring the level back up. If the level keeps dropping or you see drips or smell coolant, then look for a leak somewhere...
Thanks. That's not too bad. My driving is 80% city and 20% hiway as I only live 4 miles from work. I recently bought a Dodge Caravan which is EPA rated at 19 -25 but I am very disappointed because I am only getting a solid 15 mpg. I'm thinking of a small station wagon of some sort now and am getting very serious about good gas mileage, as I think gas is going to skyrocket in the next 2 years, but the new diesel VW wagon is too expensive right now for me. If I can really get at least 22-24 mpg in the city with an Outback I might trade.
I have an 01 base wagon Outback with the 4 cylinder ... I regularly get about 22 mpg IN THE CITY (except in the winter when it's about 20 mpg) and we've gotten up to about 26-27 mpg on the highway ...
Let the dealer take care of it, in fact I wouldn't even rush them. Ask for a loaner car.
Sounds like they are taking care of you, and that's what matters. Be patient and I bet they'll return your car to you in good working order, plus they'll use the new gaskets that came on 2003 and later models.
If you haven't overheated (badly), the heads aren't warped and odds are you'll never see the problem again.
Comments
A nicely balanced tire. Performed great yesterday in the accumulating snow. I'm in NY (Mid-Hudson Valley), and, like you, really need a snow/ice tire 10-15 days out of the entire winter on average. But when you need it, it is well worth it...
Steve
It's post #10436 in this section.
Mark
Yesterday I took a trip to Binghamton, NY from my home on Long Island. I used my wife's 2002 Audi A4 Quattro with Michelin Pilot all season tires for the 400 mile roundtrip. The route I selected was Route 17 through the lower Catskill mountains to both see the wintertime beauty of the mountains and see how the Audi performed. I left the Subaru Outback in the garage since I'd piled up the miles on a recent vacation to Florida.
Early in my trip I witnessed a 1990 Toyota Corrolla fly by me in the left lane at about 70mph and lose control after hitting some black ice. It passed in front of me on its way into the ditch off the right side of the road. I stopped and let the two fellows use my cell phone to call for help. They were wearing seats belts and were unhurt. They were from Georgia and not used to the slippery stuff.
From that point I completely lost my nerve. Has that ever happened to anyone? I kept my speed at 40-50mph and let everyone pass me. I felt slippage only once from the ice but the trip was tense and slow after that. Since I could have used the Interstate highways for this journey I got no sympathy from friends and family for wanting to commune with nature. What I did get was a new appreciation for the danger of winter motoring in the remote areas of New York State. Imagine 56 years old and still learning.
Bob
I love your posts from Fairbanks, Alaska. I can't imagine -50 temps living on Long Island. It reminds me of a Jack London short story, "To Build a Fire". A man is trapped when he breaks his leg in -75 degree Alaska weather and can't get a fire built because his matches get wet. He finally trys to lure his dog to use the dog's insides to warm his frozen feet. But the dog instinctively is too smart and leaves him to find other humans with fires since this human is not going to be providing anymore benefits. It's cruel in nature is the point I think.
Bob
Krzys
-76.... I don't even want to consider it. I'm sure I would be a gonner even at -50 if not for the close proximity of heated spaces.... my winter wardrobe is grievously undersupplied!
It has warmed back up to -41 now and I'm happy about that. It actually feels noticeably warmer than yesterday's low of -54. Temps are supposed to continue to rise into the weekend and we should be back up to 0 by Saturday - just in time to break out the shorts and lawn chairs! ;D
-Wes-
Your story is not unique. I am sure that we have all had something happen to us that changes that 'invincible' feeling to appropriate/over caution.
Route 17 is beautiful, but has some tricky sections that can get very nasty and unpredictable in the winter. These days, I rarely have reason to go much past Monticello (exit 105), or at most, Livingston Manor. When I was in college, I sometimes went this way from my parents home in Massapequa up to Potsdam, NY (Clarkson University). In my '72 Mercury Montego with bias belted studded snows!
BTW, Rt 17 is slated to be upgraded and become interstate 86, IIRC.
I think you will like the Dunlops!
Steve
Steve
In bad weather the Taconic is defintely a place for snows. With all it's twists and turns it's a lot of fun. We took part of it last week, and with wet roadways due to rain and sleet it was interesting to say the least.
As for "loosing your nerve" on the 48hrs coming down I81/496 at one point I tried passing an 18 wheeler to catch up to everyone else. I hit an icy spot, felt the car shift under me a bit so I slowed it down. Thankfully this was jsut before pulling off at a rest area.
Mark
Route 17 and the Taconic bring back memories for me when I was still in New York. I usually took Route 17 to get to Cornell.
It's funny how highways can evoke such memories.
Ken
-juice
Light interior (taupe ?)
manual
no options.
Krzys
MT5, good for you.
OK now I'm officially jealous. ;-)
-juice
I used to think the same thing until I got an 05 Honda Accord and put Nokian MRi's on it. We did a back-to-back test with three drivers and my 97 Outback wagon with Michelin HydroEdge all-season M&S rated tires, which I have been very pleased with. The FWD Honda stopped and turned better than the Subaru. The Subaru accelerated more securely on snowy hills, but the Honda got there.
If you live in the mountains the Subaru with Nokians would be well worth it. But no one should forget that AWD has a cost in purchase price, maintenance, and mpg. I drove the 05 Legacy and with the 2.5 and 4spd and felt it was just too slow. My 97 isn't faster, but it's paid for.....
My 97 isn't faster, but it's paid for..... Here, Here! And, we keep paying for them, don't we? Haha. Dedicatd AWD does have its drawbacks, but I find it good to have available with a 1-car family....
I drove FWD Camrys through several winters and they did handle quite respectably (without winter tires) so I know what the FWD can do. It sure can't barrel through deep snow like the AWD does, though. What's the ground clearance on that Accord? I'd love to have one (or similiar) if we had a second car (for commuting/errands), but I'd be digging myself out at least 5 times a year if I didn't have the option to drive the AWD on those days.
I'd take a FWD and traction control and winter tires than any of my Subarus with all seasons (esp those lousy RE92s) in the snow any day.
best thing for a good laugh is to watch someone in a AWD Audi or Mercedes with summer tires, or even worn all seasons, try get anywhere in the snow!
I understand that the 4 cylinder system puts more power to the front wheels (80-20?)and the 6 cylinder is 45-55. Why the different system in the 6 cyclinder? Is it a more sophisticated system that would handle better in the snow or just different?
The thing to keep in mind is that active AWD can proactively distribute power F/R -- it would send it forward under braking to minimize dive, and send it aft under acceleration to minimize squat. So that makes it somewhat versatile in everyday driving from a safety standpoint.
Both systems are good in the snow and will transfer power around when slippage occurs. To me, the main benefit of VTD is that it gives a better driving feel in everyday driving on dry roads. The automatic WRX and automatic Outback XT/ Legacy GT models also use VTD for this very reason
Craig
The STi uses a slightly more advanced form of VTD with manual control. The Evo uses a FWD until slip system so it would behave closer to Active AWD. The STi, despite it's suspension tuning disadvantage, posted better performance figures on dry track than the Evo. The writers at C&D attribute it to the difference in the AWD systems.
Ken
Thanks.
He will likely recommend the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, a Grand Touring all-season that provides great ride/noise comfort and excellent wet/dry grip and handling.
If you want more performance, look at the BF Goodrich Traction T/A-H or the Yokohama Avid 4S. For Ultra-High Performance, the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S or Continental ContiExtremContact.
Sly
Anyone is with a similar issue or have any advice?
Thanks.
-juice
I am considering selling the 4-Runner and buying an OBXT 5-speed because I want a smaller more sporty vehicle that will still give me the skiing utility.
I am sure the OBXT cannot perform off-road like the 4-runner, but does anyone have experience with this car on rough trails? Other than lower ground clearance, how fragile is the OB?
WBR
We have Michelin HydroEdge on our '97 OBW and the are superb all-around tires.
After 32,000 miles they still have 9/32nd" tread (new is 11/32nd).
The Goodyear TripleTread, which also has an asymmetrical tread, is also gaining favor among Scubie owners and others.
The only drawback is that it doesn't have a low-range, so it doesn't "crawl" over rocks very well. If you need to do any of that, I would get the auto, the manual is impossible to crawl.
Oh nad BTW, just last week I pulled my neighbor's brand new 2005 4Runner V8 out of the snow bank.
Sly
I agree with Sly, definitely get auto-trans if you are concerned about offroad capability -- it gives you a lot more control and finesse which would otherwise be clutch stink on a MT!
Craig
At least a couple of members here have skid plates that he made and helped install. Dave (hypov) and Dennis IIRC.
-juice
Thanks!
Have to go with what will work for YOU guys!
Brenda
We own both, older models, and we prefer our 1998 Forester over our 2002 Legacy. It's just more fun, hard to say exactly why.
On paper the Legacy is as good or better, but there's just something about the Forester that makes you smile when you're behind the wheel.
-juice
We have owned both Outbacks and Foresters and they have been great cars. You really can't go wrong with either.
Craig
I found the OB to be fun and sporty, able to carry just about anything, anyplace. Either one is good. Enjoy whichever way you go.
Mark
With an automatic the AWD feature works differently. Under normal driving conditions, torque from engine is applied 90/10 in favor of the front drive wheels. But let any wheel, front or rear, start to loose grip and the torque will quickly be redirected up to a 50/50 split between the front and rear. It may even become 60/40 or 70/30 or some other combination, depending upon the severity.
In addition, if the rear axle is a limited slip differential type (which I believe many OB models come standardly equipped, but not so on Legacy models), then the torque to the rear wheels automatically gets applied to the left or right wheel with the most grip. This helps to significantly avoid all the fishtail drama.
I have a '97 OB wagon (over 100K) and '99 SUS sedan (60K), both are automatics. Try as I may, it is very difficult to get the rear end to try and pass the front, even on glare ice. I love both my cars and will never ever be without a Subie!
FYI - I believe the air filtration is for outside air only, so it may not filter interior smoke.
Here's a link to the air filtration installation guide: http://www.subaruparts.com/guides/Legacy_Air_Filter.pdf
DaveM
I will have to check out the door when I get my car back from the dealer. I picked up my car on Wed. and took it back on Sat. The belt keep squealing and the power steering wasn't working properly.
Well, the wife and I are thinking of trading in our '02 Outback for the '05 Outback 2.5i model. The main thing that I keep wrangling with in my head is whether this is a wise move, so I'm looking for some advice. Our current Outback has 94,000 miles on it (we put about 30,000 miles/year on both of our Subies). The extended warranty (which pretty much paid for itself) ends in 6,000 miles. I know I need to get the timing belt replaced soon (about $200). Are there any major things I should be aware of with the 2.5L engines beyond 100,000 miles?
The car will be paid off in 2 more years, at which point it will have about 150,000 miles on it. So I am mainly trying to decide - trade in now while it still has warranty and some value (trade-in $$ only about $9500 due to the mileage) or wait two more years and trade in once it is paid off?
I worked out the numbers and we can basically swap this Outback for a new one and keep the exact same car payments, which is a pretty good testament to its resale value.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
Anyway, I've been tracking gas mileage in an Excel spreadsheet since my car was new. I have a 2001 Outback 2.5 (non-turbo)with 5spd stick.
My average mileage is just under 24 MPG and I seem to get that regardless of whether it's my commute mileage or highway road trip mileage. My commute is 20% city, 80% expressway. On highway road trips I use highways where the posted speed is 75 mph, and I usually cruise at that or slightly above. I've only hit the EPA highway estimate of 26 mpg ONCE and that was a road trip in July where the outside temp was really high.
I wish Subaru would add an overdrive gear to their transmissions! The engines turn at 3,500 rpm at a highway speed of 75 mph. I would think the engines would have enough torque at a lower RPM to maintain highway speeds, and have the potential to deliver much better gas mileage. For fast acceleration at speed, I'll wager most of us stick drivers know how to do a downshift !
I am not a good source of advice since I am on my third Outback and looking towards the fourth already! I would say if the upgrades and refinements in the 05 appeal to you and you don't mind carrying car payments longer into the future, then go for it (my 05 is significantly better than my 02 was). However, I think your 02 could go to 150K miles easily as long as you continue to maintain it.
Craig
Right now, I'm sitting at 177,516 on my '96 OB and plan to have it another 3 years as our sole "daily driver" @ ~22K/year. Average $ spent yearly in maintenance is $1000-1500, 80% do-it-yourself.
1am Saturday night (well, Sunday morning), I was coming home from a friend's place when my water pump bit the hay. At -15F, it was lucky for me that I was only about a mile away from the house of an acquaintance. I limped along, carefully managing the car's temp to keep it from seriously overheating, and finally made it inside a warm house at a little after 2am. I spent 6 hours working on it yesterday in their shop and replaced the water pump and thermostat, along with other general maintenance items like changing the oil, filter, air filter, and timing belt (with 95K on it, it was due!). Overall, the work went extremely smooth and I consider myself fortunate to have such helpful friends and acquaintances. So, total maintenance expenses thus far for 2005 is $250. Not bad, but with adding tires this summer to oil changes, etc., I have another ~$600 in planned expenses so I hope that there are no big surprises.
Jason, if you don't care about extending the car payments (which it doesn't look like you do considering that you plan to trade in after paying off the '02 anyway) and you do not do maintenance yourself, I'll go with Craig and say trade if the '05 is more appealing to you. Maintenance and repair expenses at least double and more often triple if you have all the work performed by a service provider.
We have a 2000 Outback Limited Wagon with a grand total of 30,000 miles on it. that's right, 30,000.
We had it in for the 30k maintainance about 2 weeks ago and have developed a coolant leak since that time. I can't tell where the leak is coming from.
I called the dealer and they asked if we had the cooling system recall done on it. No we haven't. Didn't know about it. The service writer said to bring it in and they would do the recall work and if that didn't fix the problem they would replace the head gasket.
What do you guys think? Thanks alot.
If the leak appeared right after the servicing, then I would suspect they screwed something up.
How do you know you have a leak -- are you losing coolant?? Is there a smell of coolant?? Can you see it dripping somewhere??
If the level is just down, I suspect they may have left an air bubble in the system that got purged, and you should add coolant to bring the level back up. If the level keeps dropping or you see drips or smell coolant, then look for a leak somewhere...
Good luck!
Craig
It's dripping like a big dog after the car runs for ten minutes. I can see it down below the radiator and it drips from the guard under the engine.
Yes there is a smell like it's dripping on something hot.
It did appear shortly after the service.
Thank you
Sounds like they are taking care of you, and that's what matters. Be patient and I bet they'll return your car to you in good working order, plus they'll use the new gaskets that came on 2003 and later models.
If you haven't overheated (badly), the heads aren't warped and odds are you'll never see the problem again.
-juice