Subaru Legacy/Outback

robr2 · September 2001

Your office will be in Burlington - you comment "strange, huh". I don't understand what you mean. Lemme guess - working in Burlington Sun, Oracle, Nokia or Genuity???

As for an Andover to Burlington commute - it's not too many miles but you may want to avoid 128 if you can. It's a parking lot during commuting hours.

Nothing personal about the driving too fast with the AWD. Around here, there are too many yahoos who think they are invincible with AWD/4WD in the snow and pay little attention to the fact that they can't stop.

Good luck with your move.

pdubois · September 2001

A few weeks ago I was given a small airfreshner as a freebee. It had the shape of an apple and was made of a flat cardboard like material impregnated with an apple scented air freshner. It had a piece of nylon fish-line and a small plastic hook to hang it.

I hung it in my 2K OB in the right air vent above the radio, so that it was hanging just left of the in-dash cup holder.

Yesterday, I decided to remove it. To my surprise the fake wood finish underneath it had been completely removed! There was a chemical reaction between the air freshner and the ultra thin film making-up the fake wood. The result was bubbles and shrunk plastic film (like with a paint remover chemical) which fell down when I touched it, revealing the unfinished brown plastic underneath and ruining this part of the trim.

I thought the fake wood finish was molded in-depth in the plastic but it is actually an ultra thin film applied on top of unfinished plastic.

Therefore, I want to warn others about a possible similar problem.

miksmi · September 2001

Is this where you've been posting? Long time no see.

Sorry to hear about the plood problem. Some time ago, originalbitman was interested in replacing his plastic wood with the standard (black/gray?) trim; he might sell you his.

Please drop me some email (see my profile).

Good to hear from you.

..Mike

pdubois · September 2001

Hi Mike, you're right, I have not been very active on any Subaru boards lately!!! Nice to see you here...

I am waiting to get a quote from Subaru for the replacement of that portion of the fake wood. Thanks for providing originalbitman's reference; if replacement is really expensive, I'll contact him!

I have e-mailed you.

Pat.

originalbitman · September 2001

That piece lists for $58. I was going to try and sell the full set (4 pieces). Let me think a bout it a little and maybe I will be interested in selling just the HVAC piece. It is brand new and I can point you to the install instructions.

bit

nygreg · September 2001

Congratulations on your blue Subie OB. Have mine 4 months and love it (Winestone). Keep the revs below 4K and vary your driving for the first 1K miles. Then change your oil. Enjoy.

Greg

wrobelc · September 2001

Have a 2000 Legacy L Wagon and am looking for a weight recommendation for transmision fluid. Also, what are some better brands of transmission fluid. Live in an area with a mild climate. Year round range is 35-75 F.

kkoomar · September 2001

You are very right about those who drive 4wd/awd go overboard thinking that they have the safest mobile on earth.

I noticed, even during rain, while driving from austin to Houston.........most vehicles that were turned over were 4wd.

About Burlinton, I did not realize that there are so many companies........that's interesting to know.

pdubois · September 2001

Thanks for looking into this. I may be trading my car for a 2002 one soon as part of a SOC deal (long story!) and I may not need to replace the damage part if I do, I'll let the dealer deal with it.

So far I have used my small artistic talents and I have hand painted the missing part with acrylic paint. If you don't know there was a problem it does not really show any more. If you know, then you definitely can find it (mainly because it does not have the exact same shine)! Of course I don't know how this will stand with time, sunshine etc...

If I do keep the car for one more year, then I would definitely be interested in buying the HVAC part from you should you decide to sell that part only...

Thanks again,

Pat.

originalbitman · September 2001

My email address is in my profile. Just shoot me some mail if you want it. I will not likely take the time to find a buyer so if you end up needing it you can have it for the price of shipping.

bit

pdubois · September 2001

That's so nice of you! I have e-mailed you. Thanks!!!

Pat.

kayakman · September 2001

I bought a 2001 LL Bean Outback with the H6-3.0. Love the vehicle, but can't figure the mpg out at all.

Seems that the car averages only about 250 miles from a tank of premium fuel. This concerns me as the sticker is 20/28 mpg. Car has just crossed 5K miles. I live in Seattle, so I use the A/C only rarely.

I hate to say I traded in a V8 SUV to get better mpg - seems that the new wagon does not do much better. Anyone else with the H6 notice this problem?

20llbean · September 2001

Gas Mileage: My H6 LLbean milegae fluctuates based on user. Whne I have the car, it is highway and little A/C, so I get in the 25 to 26 range. I have never gotten above 26 MPG. When my wife has it, it is local street, stop and go, with the A/C on. Mileage drops to the 20 to 22 range. I had it go lower then 20 only once. Whne you combine both drivers, I get in the 22 to 24 range. I calculate it by setting one of the trip odometers to zero at the fill up. Then when I have to fill up again, I take the gallons requirement and divide it into the miles from the trip odometer.

Random CD: I left post on random CD tests and have found that my random CD is not random at all, but repeast the first selection every two songs.

toca · September 2001

You don't say how many gallons you used for that 250 miles. If the 250 miles was a combo of highway and city driving and you used about 11 gallons, your MPG would be a tad under 23. Not great, but certainly within the EPA estimates.

mrdetailer · September 2001

Your local Dealer should be able to give you the proper weight and type. I would strongly consider a synthetic, and adding Lubegard. This reduces varnishes, heat and extends transmission life.

yellowbikedon · September 2001

With a bit over 8k miles on my LL Beaner, I average between 20+ and 22 mpg in city driving and better than 25 on the highways. The A/C is on all the time as I live in southern Florida. Best mileage was 27.1 when driving from Illinois to Boynton Beach this spring.

Be patient!

Don

keith51 · September 2001

My '01 bean with 7K gets between 22-28 mpg. Did the 28 level twice--all highway, closed windows & no a/c.

cptplt · September 2001

has anyone actually received a notice yet about this?? seems it was announced quite a while ago.

dill6 · September 2001

I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2002 OB w/winter pkg., CD (single) and tweeter kit. If I add 3% to the total invoice on this vehicle, then add dest. charge, I come up with $22,732.

Edmunds TMV quotes $23,120. Seems a bit steep since there's a 3% holdback with Subaru, and this is a 2002 that's just arrived at the dealer (still has the plastic on the seats) so the holdback will nearly all go to the dealer as profit.

I'm in Salt Lake, where the OB seems to be the universal choice - but there's no shortage of inventory. All three dealers seem to have OBs coming out their ears. What target price would you shoot for?

nygreg · September 2001

Just my experience. Bought my 01 base OB at the end of April. Auto, single cd, AWP, security, leather shift knob for $23.3K which is about the TMV from Edmunds. I might have been able to shave another $100 or so off, but was tired of dealing with dealers. Hope this helps.

Greg

99gs · September 2001

I've checked around with a lot of dealers lately and will be picking up a '01 OB in a week. I've found pricing varies wildly from region and town to town. Lots of factors, but the main one seems to be the amount of competition. I'm getting mine out of town because the two in town dealers seem to be happy with the high markup lower turn over routine.

I've found that "in stock" cars are, not as one might expect, cheaper than ordering. The local dealers feel that they will make more of a mark up on in stock vehicals because of the impulsive buyers who test drive and buy.

With all that said the best I could find here and in many upper Midwest markets was invoice plus $400 for in stock units. Out of town dealers would order an '02 for invoice, but in town wouldn't. The prices I'm referring to are the Edmunds invoice numbers which include the 3% hold back. There was a $1,300 difference between what my local dealer wanted and the price from an out of town dealer on my '01. The locals didn't think they needed to give up the dealer cash or any of the 3%. Check Fitzmall.com if you want to get some comparative pricing.

dill6 · September 2001

I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2002 OB w/winter pkg., CD (single) and tweeter kit. If I add 3% to the total invoice on this vehicle, then add dest. charge, I come up with $22,732.

Edmunds TMV quotes $23,120. Seems a bit steep since there's a 3% holdback with Subaru, and this is a 2002 that's just arrived at the dealer (still has the plastic on the seats) so the holdback will nearly all go to the dealer as profit.

I'm in Salt Lake, where the OB seems to be the universal choice - but there's no shortage of inventory. All three dealers seem to have OBs coming out their ears. What target price would you shoot for?

nygreg · September 2001

in this month's magazine. They compared it to the Passat Wagon AWD, the Highlander and the Rendezvous. The Passat won out overall. They felt the brakes in the VDC were a little spongy and the interior was less luxurious than a $33K price would envision. They claim average reliability as does the VW. Interestingly, they don't talk at all about the performance in bad weather.

Greg

dill6 · September 2001

I was considering VW myself until about a month ago, I was listening to Car Talk on NPR and a woman called in relating how her brandy-new Passat (I think, but could have been a Jetta) was burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles, and how VW had told her, at different times, how: 1. she was driving wrong b. 'that's normal' 3. 'that's impossible' - etc. After the howls of outrage died down Tom and Ray said that this is a way-too-common problem with new VWs, that its outrageous how the company has decided to stonewall on it, but understandable, since if they did the right thing (ie. give all these folks new cars) they'd go out of business.

Now please nobody sue me, I'm only repeating what they said - but put that together with all the other reports of shaky reliability, and I say 'no thanks'. I guess if you get a 'good one' they're really great - but I wouldn't take the chance.

99gs · September 2001

You had posted a while back regarding your install of the hood deflector. I will be away from home when I install it and wondered if the two screws needed a torx driver or just a phillips. Thanks in advance. Jack

paisan · September 2001

All Isuzus state in the owners manual that 1Q/1000 miles is considered normal. I know a few people who have over 200K miles on their troopers and have burned 1Q ever 1000-2000 miles.

-mike

dill6 · September 2001

It was a while back I heard this show and maybe I've got the number wrong. At any rate, the Magliozzi bros. clearly felt it was not 'normal' or OK, whatever it was, and for all their clowning around, they do seem to know cars.

miksmi · September 2001

Greg,

CU discusses bad weather performance generically (FWD, 4WD, AWD) separately from the reviews (pg 58).

CU rates the Outback VDC 13 city, 28 hwy, 20mpg overall & Passat 4Motion 12 city, 27 hwy, 18 overall. EPA rates VDC 20/27 and 4Motion 17/24. Either rating, the 4Motion has lousy fuel economy in the city. But 13mpg city for a VDC? Man, that must be some "spirited" driving.

..Mike

subearu · September 2001

I too have the Subaru branded hood deflector. It came with 2 plastic phillips head screws that screw into the hood (inside), just above each of the headlights. The holes should already be there.

-Brian

nygreg · September 2001

Brian is correct. The holes are already there. This is were you "plug" in some plastic inserts and use the two phillips head screws. Stick on the rubber bumpers on the deflector and corresponding plastic protector sheets on the hood and your good to go. Good luck.

Greg

nygreg · September 2001

is not normal with today's engines and technology. I know it is stated in the manuals, but, I have never had an engine burn that. I never once had to add oil to my 4 cylinder Camry between oil changes, even after 180K miles. My Sienna has 30K and never needed extra oil. Had two Taurus' for 60K and 80K miles each and never needed to add oil. Have 7600 miles on my OB and haven't needed to add oil yet (although I have been changing the oil every 2K)

Maybe VW uses 2 stroke engines. JK

Greg

99gs · September 2001

Thanks Brian and Greg.

mortpeaberry · September 2001

On our '01Gt Wagon, we have a costco triad seat with the LATCH system. I move it around all the time (we sometimes take another child with us). It fits really! tight in all three positions, there are four retaining devices under the seat - if I put the seat in the middle I just use the 2 inside anchors. Our friends have a britax seat, and it is the safest seat I have heard of. Not as fast/easy to install as the LATCH seat, but not hard either.
- The GT does not come with trailer wiring - so I have had to use a converter and connect to the battery! does any one have any ideas on the best place to go through the fire wall or how to get a wire connector that will go into the factory harness plug at the fuse box. The fuse box is wired for 'trailer' but the GT/OB harnesses are different - go figure
thanks for any help
-mort

evilizard · September 2001

Something I have been wondering about the whole manufacturer/dealer relationship for a while. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
When it comes to service how do dealers make their money.
I understand the whole holdback/invoice kind of thing when you buy the car and how they make their money there. But it has been said the real money comes from the parts and service dept. What I am wondering is where does the money come from when it is warranty work.

Lets say you bring your car in under warranty because you Fob is broken. Dealer fixes fob with a $100 part and 2hrs labor. Does he bill the manufactuer? Does he get his full markup on parts and labor (would one dealer get more than another for the same repair?).

What about those extended service contracts he sells, from what I have seen the service contract costs the dealer $X and he sells it to you for X+1. Is that +1 just gravy or does it obligate him or increase his repair liability? Otherwise why wouldn't the dealers be selling those contracts on the cheap, after all if you have an extended warranty and the person brings the car to you for work (as opposed to a cheaper 3rd party) thats yet more money you have made.

Finally how does any of this change (if at all) if the dealer doing the work is not the one who sold the car?

paisan · September 2001

1) Used cars. Most dealers make their money on the used car lot. They give you $500 for the trade-in, and sell it for like $1500 with a 30 day warranty.

2) Service/parts. Oil changes, repairs etc. I think they only get a % of the labor and parts prices from the manufacturers for warranty issues, but it's still plenty of $ for them.

3) Extended warranties are total profit, they make the markup on it plus they get paid from the warranty company if they do the repairs.

4) It doesn't matter if you bought a car from a dealer, when it is repaired the manufacturer reimburses the dealer that fixes it.

-mike

vincer2 · September 2001

Dealers are reimbursed by the manufacturer, or distributor such as SOA, for parts and labor on all warranty repairs. They probably are not reimbursed at their published hourly rate and the parts markup reimbursement is less than if the customer was paying.

2 or 3 years back Ford dealers successfully convinced Ford to up the ante on factory reimbursements for warranty work. Dealers had complained for a few years that they were barely breaking even on warranty repairs. Ford agreed to increase the reimbursements but not to the same level as paying customers.

Vince

dill6 · September 2001

I expect you're on the money (so to speak) about the used car angle - in my recent shopping around for a new Subie one of the first questions salespeople always have is "do you have a car to trade-in" - and the offers I've gotten for my car have been laughable. Less than half what its easily worth. I'd definitely urge anyone to at least consider selling their own car - a friend of mine put his OLD Legacy wagon in the paper for $1,800. Very high miles, needing a new clutch, AC not working, some fairly serious rust. He was very up front about all this and still sold it for $1,500 by 10:00 AM the first day. Its really tough to find a good solid used car for less than $4K, but the dealers will try and tell you your car is worthless. A lot of people just want to get the deal done, and think selling their car will be a big hassle - and that's where they really get reamed.

breckco · September 2001

We're going to sell our 2000 OB and are looking for help trying to determine its value. We will be selling it private party. Has anyone bought sold or shopped an OB similar to ours?

It's a 2000 OB speed, all weather package, cd changer, cargo net, tweeter kit, factory alarm, differential cover. It has just under 16k miles and has been extremely well maintained. The color is deep saphire pearl (dark blue. The condition inside and out is as close to flawless as can be. I'm unusually attentive to maintainance.

Any help appreciated.

Live Happy,

Chris

pocahontas · September 2001

In addition to the feedback here, you may also want to check out Edmunds' Used Vehicle Appraiser. Good luck. ;-)

Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

luvs2fish7 · September 2001

I had the dealer install my hood deflector. While driving my OB home I heard a vibration noise. The dealer says it is coming from the deflector, but they do not know how to stop it. Any ideas?

ckfreund · September 2001

I just attached a Thule Frontier to the roof rack on my 2001 Outback. When reading the instructions Thule provided, it said to not attach to a rack that could not handle at least 150 pounds. The rack on my Outback says the limit is 100 pounds. Will I be OK? I've kept the total load to under 100 pounds. Any comments?

aakerson · September 2001

Just bought a used Saab convertible -- asked the saleman if he preferred new-car sales. Answer "no way, because with new cars, everyone walks in knowing what your markup is; you have to sell for $100 over invoice, or they just go somewhere else. Not the same in used cars." I thought about that, and it made sense. We have only the most general of ideas what a used car is worth, how much the dealer paid for it. We have one dealer here in St. Louis who shops around the country for high-cost one and two-year-old cars, e.g., Mercedes, SUVs, Audis, etc. He probably makes more from those than from his new-car franchise. I told him I thought the price on a year-old Mercedes convertible was unbelievably high, and his only comment was, "yeah, but if you want to buy a new one, you pay $25K more, and for that you get to put your name on a waiting list. With me you get the car now." Yeah, and he probably makes as much on his used Merc. as the new-car guy down the road makes when and if the ordered Merc ever comes in.

Also ... notice how most brands are into the "certified" used car business today. I used to think it was because new cars were so high as to take people out of the market. But, based on comments lately from a couple of sales people, I would bet it's because they can control the markups (read that, enlarge them) far more than with new cars. Boy, how times have changed.

sweet_subie · September 2001

5 spd - 17.5k
auto - 18.5 k

subearu · September 2001

My hood deflector doesn't make any vibration noise, or at least I haven't heard any.

Make sure that the rubber 'bumpons' are placed on the inside of the deflector near the ends and somewhere around the middle of the deflector. The 'bumpons' protect the paint from getting scuffed by the deflector. These are clear colored on mine.

-Brian

evilizard · September 2001

No buzz on my hood deflector. If it really is the hood deflector (try taking it off and see if you still get the noise) make sure its installed all the way around and try adding more of those silicone bumpers. If that doesn't fix it (and it truly is the deflector) try fan balancing weights to adjust the vibration frequency.

geomorph · September 2001

A Subaru hood deflector was installed last week by a dealer on our 2001 Legacy. It vibrates loudly at highway speeds. You can actually see it vibrating.

For those of you that have had the hood deflector installed without subsequent vibrations did you all have the silicone bumpers placed on the underside of the deflector or directly onto the hood? Also what is the clearance between the deflector and the hood.

Our deflector was installed with the bumpers stuck to the hood and there is an inch to a half inch of clearance between the deflector and the bumpers. At high speed the deflector moves up and down until it contacts the bumpers. When I asked the dealer about this they told me they installed the deflector as per Subaru's instructions. We need a fix.

Thanks in advance

evilizard · September 2001

The bumpers go on the deflector. There are small pieces of clear tape that go on the car itself around the areas where the plastic clips come into contact with the hood and where the bumpers touch the hood. There should be little to no clearance.

The instructions for installing the hood truly suck, they are bizzare pictograms with no writing whatsoever. I was pretty confused by them but its not terribly hard to figure out how to install.

You'll need to pull the bumpers off the hood and stick them on the deflector. If they feed you that line about installed to specficiations as to see the specifications.

subearu · September 2001

has the bumpers stuck to the underside of the deflector. 3m plastic tape goes on the hood surface directly below the bumpers. I installed the deflector myself following the Subie directions. Maybe at most there's about 1/4 inch between the bumper and the hood, but it looks like most of them are probably 1/8 inch or less.

Is the front clipped in properly? There should be a clip that connects the hood to the deflector just inside of each of the headlights. Kind of between the lights and the grill on both sides. Also verify that the deflector is secured to the underside of the hood with 2 plastic screws, probably about where the middle of each headlight is. Be careful not to tighten these too hard since they're plastic.

If that's all secure and all, then I'm not sure why it's not fitting correctly. It shouldn't vibrate at all, IMO. Does it have SUBARU on the driver side stamped on the topside of the deflector?

-Brian

anibalb · September 2001

Folks,

The hood deflector comes with the clear little bumpers already stuck to it. How could your bumpers be stuck to the Hood??? You get an extra bumper in case you need it. It is pretty easy to install if you ask me. 2 Clips and 2 screws. The holes for the screws are already there.

Hope this helps.

theob · September 2001

Ours was installed at the port. Bumpers on the deflector. However at speeds in excess of 80mph, the deflector can flop around a little. Tells you how much air pressure the car is pushing at those speeds.

On a similar vein, I can't get the Yak Wheel Fork mounted on the Roundbars to hold my mtn bike tire upright at speeds in excess of 65 mph. It ends up twisting on the front round bar until the tire is sitting on the moonroof. Tried tightening to the extreme, to no avail. The tire behind it stays up fine.
Thanks, Theo in Colorado

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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