Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Dan - in Naples, Florida
-mike
I just hope in the years to come it is as bulletproof as my Accords were, but so far I have no reason to believe otherwise. I hope you love your car as much as I love mine.
Cheers Pat.
Along with my parents, I am also a former Honda disciple, but have been very impressed by my two Subarus. As I pass my 2000 OB wagon on to my parents (talk about role reversal!), I am looking forward to ushering them into the world of Subaru ownership. I think the Outback will be perfect for my father, who does a lot of kayaking and is always working on projects around the house. The Subaru will be joining their 95 Accord, which has also been a great car.
Craig
First drive: Impreza WRX Wagon 5 speed. Very impressive handling, acceleration (no kidding, I know). Plenty of leg and headroom (I'm, 6'3"). Only problem, the back seat leg room is barely adequate for my 9 year old son.
Second drive: 2001 VDC Wagon. Only one left at the dealership. Again, very impressive, I'm just not going to pay that much. Then I learned that they had in stock.....
Third drive: 2001 LLBean Wagon in the color I want. The only problem I have is that with the moonroof, my head is bumping up against the liner. I adjusted the seat all the way back and down and there still wasn't enough head room. I can remedy that by reclining the seat somewhat, but the driving position starts to get ridiculous.
Questions....
Is the headroom better in the 4 cylinder Outback without the moonroof? Is the traction inferior to the system on the Bean and VDC? Anyone else faced this and ended up with the WRX? Is there sufficient room in back?
Also, all of the Subaru dealers in my area (closest one is 35 minutes away) are hole-in-the-wall type dearlerships. Small buildings, small parts and service departments. The only fairly large one is supposedly having trouble with its banks due to some sort of mismanagement. Any help would be appreciated. As you can probably tell, I would like to end up with a Subaru because of the handling, economy and safety. They just aren't making one that is a "super" fit right now. I don't really want to end up with the CRV, my wife already has one.
Bob
Pdubois - I wouldn't think a mechanic would modify a seat either. I would either do it my self (I like playing around with my welder and torch) or I would have a shop make up the parts for me. Looking at the seat today (I didn't take it off) it looks like it has a ton of travel, it probably just needs some new attachment rails made up that would mount the whole thing a few inches further back. I wouldn't think that would affect safety to much.
I did a speedo check with my GPS today and found that mine is reading from 2-3mph fast (75-speedo, 72 GPS). 2mph at about 35 and 3mph at about 75. Closer than I thought it would be, the car is so stable at 75 that it seems like the speedo has to be way off.
Eric
Cheers!
Paul
Good luck finding the Subie you like! Subies are great.
--Bart
After getting the car home, I realized the passenger door was not closing correctly, so I took it back to the dealer (Stohlman Subaru in Tysons Corner, VA) and they adjusted the window for me. I got the car home and checked it for dings, and didn't see any. The next day, I noticed a four-inch scratch on the rear bumper. I called the dealer and insisted I only drove the car home and they told me they would fix it that it probably happened there. Poetic justice.
Stohlman Subaru matched FitzMall's price and I got to do a no-haggle deal over the internet, which made it easier. I recommend them (just make sure all of the doors close properly.)
I have been a loyal Honda owner. Hope my Subaru will be as reliable as my Hondas have been. So far, I am happy with my decision. This message board helped me with my decision.
Mayme Grim
The VDC has the newer, and more advanced traction system that Subaru just came up with in the '01 model year.
DUKEPHOTO IN WV
'01 BLACK VDC
On another point, in about 7-8 years, whichever car you buy now will have aged just perfectly for your 9 year old son to start driving! (read, perfect excuse for you to get a new car!) If he's into cars at all, get his input! Make him think you're buying him a car that you are going to drive until he is old enough! Then when you need the car washed, you can tell him to go out and wash "his" car! (In another year or two, you can teach him to wax-on and wax-off!)
Are there child labor laws that would prohibit that? Regardless, Greg, get a Subaru, period. There is no other car on the road that is as much fun (under $35K), either to drive, or talk about on message boards!
Keep us posted!
Pete.
The Forester doesn't have a lot of rear leg room if the front seat is all the way back, but move it up a little and it's OK (I'm 5'11 1/2" and two notches forward fits). Also, there is plenty of foot room under the seat, plus cup holders, big windows, and a nice view of the full moon if you opt for the S Premium.
I do think my dad's Outback is roomier, though. If that's a priority get the OB. Actually, take the family, get everyone in the cars, and see what they like. If they sample it you'll know what everyone will be happy with.
Congrats, Mayme. Glad to hear the dealer treated you well.
dervish: sounds like clutch chatter. You're still under the 12 month adjustment period, so let the dealer look at it.
Dan: I agree with paisan, but would go even further and change the transmission fluid and engine oil, too. Do it ASAP. Water contamination can really create a mess.
Craig: 24mpg with an H6? That's great!
-juice
If you can, get an 02 model of the Outback. They switched to Bridgestone Potenzas from the Firestone Wilderness tires, put dual cupholders in the console, added a light around the ignition switch, and made numerous other minor tweaks. In addition, 01 models are now 1 year old by depreciation standards, so you would have to get a mighty good deal to justify the hit. You should be able to buy an 02 near invoice anyhow, so there may not be any real incentive to get an 01.
Regarding the AWD systems, I would clarify what another poster said by mentioning that the AWD system is the same between the Bean and automatic-trans H4 models -- it is Subaru's Active AWD system that is FWD biased (90/10 F/R nominal) but transfers torque aft due to slippage or to prevent possible slippage under acceleration. Very good system. 5-spd H4 models have a nominal 50/50 F/R split that can vary up to about 100% on either end in reaction to slippage only. This would definitely be a better system for off-road use.
My experience is that you'll get a better deal at the larger dealerships, and sometimes better service too. The more inventory they have, the more willing they are to work with you on price, and you will have a better selection to choose from. Generally, the better the dealer is rated by customers, the more cars they will have on the lot to offer for sale (based on my understanding of how Subaru allocations and manufacturer-to-dealer dealer incentives work). You can buy a car at one place and get it serviced at another if that works for you -- they are all held to the same standards by Subaru, and you should expect equal treatment no matter where you buy and get service done. If not, Subaru will rectify the situation pretty fast, as many of us can attest to.
As mentioned by Mayme Grim, most dealers will match Fitzgerald's pricing, so use that as a tool wherever you shop. This may be the best indicator of where you should buy, independent of the size of the dealer.
I have always felt that the H4/5-spd combo was about perfect, with plenty of power. I was not impressed by the H4/auto combination, however, and think the H6/auto is a better bet. The gas mileage is pretty good too.
I also gave the new CRV a look. It has quite a bit more power than the first-gen CRV, which fixed one of my major gripes with the vehicle. But, I still feel like the interior has a certain Rubbermaid "hose-out" feel to it. In this area, the Subarus have Honda beat.
Craig
Dennis: first of all, wow, 130k miles? Are you a traveling salesman?
I would look at the 02 sensor, not the plugs again. Also check the plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, other things that if clogged would cause the engine to choke.
Our 626 had a CEL and it turned out to be a short in the O2 sensor, which was covered with road grime. Over $200 for it was painful, but nowhere near $3 grand.
-juice
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
-juice
Steve
Does the '02 have side airbags in the seats? My 2K Ltd does, and I wouldn't want to go poking around in (or disassembling) a "loaded" seat!
Ken in Seattle
I am in the market for another one, and live 10 miles west of Akron, Ohio. Are any of those dealerships in trouble in Northeast Ohio, or do you live in another part of the state? Please reply here or email to free@fixyourskin.com. Thanks, OhioGreg. -Chip
I always thought that it was a dumb visor design because the visor can't properly clear the map light "bump" when you want to swing it around to the side.
If you ask me, they should saw off the little "wings" on the inboard edges of the visors. It would fix all of the problems we have mentioned here. With the sun-block grating pattern in the middle of the windshield, it's not that critical to have the wings there anyway.
Craig
Follow ups. Is the traction system better on the auto or the stick?
everything i find is for WRX's or RS. how compatible would parts for a 2.5RS be w/ a 2.5 outback wagon?
i'm not looking for rally sport, just want to supe up my grocery getter. thanks.
The 90/10 system of the auto models seems more transparent and more benign in everyday driving, and gives you the fuel economy benefits of FWD most of the time. It seems to react pretty quick to slippage (much better than the system in the CRV, for example), and also kicks in proactively to improve traction upon acceleration and braking.
Bottom line, they're both great systems. I've driven both, and think they are equally good. By nature, the 5-spd car is a little more athletic feeling and more fun to drive, and the auto models are smoother. If you're going with the H4, I'd say the 5-spd transmission is the best.
Craig
I have a 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon. Its a standard wagaon with automatic transmission. I love the car.
Around the time that I bought the car I started having pain in my right hip. I have been seeing a chiropractor but the pain is still there. I am wondering if it could be the seat in my subaru? I actually find the seats comfortable and have not noticed any particular discomfort while driving. However, it turns out that another person at my work also bought a Legacy outback wagon recently and has also been experiencing pain in his hip.
Has anyone experienced this?
mike k
Does anyone know anything else about this experimental fix, are they planning on offering it to others?
My car is still pinging with no fix available in sight (based on SoA's position), but I still remain hopeful that some kind of patch has to be in the works if they've tried something a fix on a couple of cars. Who knows.
Thanks
Sharon
So how about it? Anyone explore seatback removal?
Steve
The new ECU in my Subaru appears to have fixed the pinging, but the weather has been cooler, so we'll have to wait for next spring to see... I really don't know why SoA hasn't offered the fix to others.
Eric
Basically, the engines are the same, so most stuff bolts on. By that I mean intakes, cams, underdrive pulleys, that type of stuff. The exhaust is different, though.
-juice
Greg
system when cold. More of a loud groaning noise. I have clutch chatter an damp mornings. Usually one start in second gear (more slippage) cures the problem. The lumbar support problem is because only the bottom of the seat moves, the back of the seat does not. On many cars, the whole seat moves when you adjust it up or down. On Subies, the farther up you adjust the seat, the lower down the lumbar goes. One final question, anyone experience a bad fuel injector on a 2000 or newer Subie? #1 injector went bad at 25,000 miles. Ran and idled very poorly. Must be my bad CARMA!
gam2
But unfortunately those days seem to be gone. Many banks and even mfgrs lost a fortune when residuals couldn't be recovered at auction. Especially with low interest financing being offered to purchasers, it is hard to find a lease deal that is financially viable. I bought my '02 OBW with Subaru financing when I ran the numbers and found that leasing was just too expensive. It is returning to being a tool of business, not average consumers. I recently read that leasing is down from an all time high of 40% to under 25% of US auto sales, and expected to continue to decline. End of the free ride......
Steve
My H4/5-spd doesn't hang a whole lot between shifts, but I usually shift much higher (about 4000 RPM). In fact, I'm surprised you are shifting at 2800 -- that seems way too low compared to what I'm used to.
The H4 does hang on to RPMs between shifts better than some cars I have driven. I had a Honda Prelude with the VTEC engine. When I shifted near redline (7200 RPM), the car would actually decelerate when got into the next gear unless I cranked out a speed shift or blipped the throttle. I'm sure it must have had a really light flywheel, which let the RPMs drop quick.
Craig
It happens in 1st and 2nd and is most evident when I'm in need of high acceleration, but it only does it once, and then goes.
Any ideas/experience around this?
Thanks!
ob11: an Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley would fix that, and give you better throttle response too. They're about $180 with the belt and not too hard for a DIY project. I think the stock engine is fine, though, and haven't done this mod.
I don't lease simply because I tend to hang on to my cars forever. Also, if you buy, you can buy at invoice and sell at retail, to truly get the lowest depreciation. Plus, I save up, earn interest and pay cash rather than paying them interest.
Think about this - why is there an interest charge on leases? Aren't you paying for the use of the car as you go? So why do you have to come up with the money up front (or pay interest) if you haven't used it yet? Doesn't make sense to me.
My Forester cost me $19,200, and I could sell it privately for $14k easily (some go as high as $15k in the paper). So my cost would be $5200 for 39 months and 42k miles. Add taxes, though, and that works out to $159 per month for me, could I lease a Forester for that much?
Heck no! I'm sure it would be at least $200-250 per month, with a penalty at the end for the extra mileage. If I had 1k miles per month allowance, I would pay a penalty of $210 if it was 7 cents per extra mile. Top that off with a few touch-ups that would be needed and I'd probably owe another $400 or so.
That's why I don't lease.
Caveat: it does make sense for the person that doesn't go over the mileage limit, trades in his car every 2-3 years, has no cash up front, and keeps his vehicle in perfect condition, at least if there is a manufacturer incentive on the lease.
-juice