Please help! I'm taking my '98 legacy into the shop tomorrow - we've pampered this car ever since we bought it in Seattle, and now, in S. Florida (a Subaru no-man's land) we're having difficulty finding the right shop to take care of us. Here's the bottom line - the engine light came on today. starting about four days ago, i heard tinny whirring sounds coincide with revs about 5 minutes after starting - so, I suspect either transmission or differential issues. anybody have similar issues? this could have been caused by driving about 1 mile in roughly 10 inches of water in a recent flood. I couldn't help it - cars were stuck left/right but I made it through - halfway through this drive, though, I heard a very rapid click (sort of like fast machine gun fire) from the back, and then, when I got out of the water, the car felt like it was "hopping" when I did tight corners (you know - hopping like a truck when it's still in 4X4 and all wheels are turning at the same rate) - I'm rambling here, but I'm thinking I'll get quite the bill at the service station if I don't better understand the situation - can anybody chime in here?
Have the rear diffy fluid changed. My dad had a similar problem in his '97 and the rear diffy was flooded through the breather hoses and the fluid was compromised with water. Try having the fluid changed out and see how that works.
I have had my car now for ten months and I am completely happy with it, as I said in a previous post for many years I owned Hondas, so far this is by far the best car I have ever owned.
I just hope in the years to come it is as bulletproof as my Accords were, but so far I have no reason to believe otherwise. I hope you love your car as much as I love mine.
I just filled up the LL Bean for the first time, and it took 15.25 gal for 367.4 miles of mixed driving (about 70% highway). Gas mileage works out to 24 MPG, which is pretty amazing considering the car is new and the engine is green. This is about the same mileage my 2000 H4/5-spd gets for the same type of driving. It will be interesting to see how the mileage improves as the engine breaks in.
Along with my parents, I am also a former Honda disciple, but have been very impressed by my two Subarus. As I pass my 2000 OB wagon on to my parents (talk about role reversal!), I am looking forward to ushering them into the world of Subaru ownership. I think the Outback will be perfect for my father, who does a lot of kayaking and is always working on projects around the house. The Subaru will be joining their 95 Accord, which has also been a great car.
I have been looking at Subarus for the last month in addition to scoping out the new CRV. Here's my summary so far on the Subarus. I would appreciate any input or suggestions to help make the decision.
First drive: Impreza WRX Wagon 5 speed. Very impressive handling, acceleration (no kidding, I know). Plenty of leg and headroom (I'm, 6'3"). Only problem, the back seat leg room is barely adequate for my 9 year old son.
Second drive: 2001 VDC Wagon. Only one left at the dealership. Again, very impressive, I'm just not going to pay that much. Then I learned that they had in stock.....
Third drive: 2001 LLBean Wagon in the color I want. The only problem I have is that with the moonroof, my head is bumping up against the liner. I adjusted the seat all the way back and down and there still wasn't enough head room. I can remedy that by reclining the seat somewhat, but the driving position starts to get ridiculous.
Questions....
Is the headroom better in the 4 cylinder Outback without the moonroof? Is the traction inferior to the system on the Bean and VDC? Anyone else faced this and ended up with the WRX? Is there sufficient room in back?
Also, all of the Subaru dealers in my area (closest one is 35 minutes away) are hole-in-the-wall type dearlerships. Small buildings, small parts and service departments. The only fairly large one is supposedly having trouble with its banks due to some sort of mismanagement. Any help would be appreciated. As you can probably tell, I would like to end up with a Subaru because of the handling, economy and safety. They just aren't making one that is a "super" fit right now. I don't really want to end up with the CRV, my wife already has one.
Yes, I believe the front headroom is slightly more without the sunroof. I believe you can raise and lower the seat a bit. Also, the Forester, which you didn't mention, has more headroom than either the Legacy or Impreza.
Ohiogreg - I'm 6'3" and have the 4 cylinder Outback without the sunroof, I think there is plenty of headroom, probably an inch and a half to spare, thats one of the reasons I didn't get a more upscale model. Depending on how you are built, legroom might be an issue. Take a long test drive. Pdubois - I wouldn't think a mechanic would modify a seat either. I would either do it my self (I like playing around with my welder and torch) or I would have a shop make up the parts for me. Looking at the seat today (I didn't take it off) it looks like it has a ton of travel, it probably just needs some new attachment rails made up that would mount the whole thing a few inches further back. I wouldn't think that would affect safety to much. I did a speedo check with my GPS today and found that mine is reading from 2-3mph fast (75-speedo, 72 GPS). 2mph at about 35 and 3mph at about 75. Closer than I thought it would be, the car is so stable at 75 that it seems like the speedo has to be way off.
If the rear legroom in the WRX was inadequate, the back seat of the Forester certainly won't be big enough either - my 10 year old son will vouch for that. Of course, he's already 105 lbs, size 8 shoes, and shoulder high to me, but it was a deciding factor when debating OB vs. Forester purchase. My OB has no moonroof, I like to sit as high as possible, and with the seat adjusted all the way up, I don't touch the headliner. Granted, I'm only 5-11, but perhaps the info is still helpful.
The Forester's got enough headroom to wear a chef's hat (it seems.) Also hole-in-the-wall dealerships don't have to be bad, I bought and serviced my car at a one-car showroom kind of place in NJ, the thing is, it's a very busy place with long-standing reputation.
Good luck finding the Subie you like! Subies are great.
Two weeks ago, I purchased an Outback Limited after extensive research and contemplation. I considered the sporty Forester, but not enough room for my family. Outback is perfect size and V4 is certainly enough power for me!
After getting the car home, I realized the passenger door was not closing correctly, so I took it back to the dealer (Stohlman Subaru in Tysons Corner, VA) and they adjusted the window for me. I got the car home and checked it for dings, and didn't see any. The next day, I noticed a four-inch scratch on the rear bumper. I called the dealer and insisted I only drove the car home and they told me they would fix it that it probably happened there. Poetic justice.
Stohlman Subaru matched FitzMall's price and I got to do a no-haggle deal over the internet, which made it easier. I recommend them (just make sure all of the doors close properly.)
I have been a loyal Honda owner. Hope my Subaru will be as reliable as my Hondas have been. So far, I am happy with my decision. This message board helped me with my decision.
The traction system on the Bean is the same as on the 4 cylinder Outbacks. It just has the 6 cylinder engine and upscale amenities. The VDC has the newer, and more advanced traction system that Subaru just came up with in the '01 model year.
Interesting that you would test drive the Outbacks and WRX along with a CRV. As has already been mentioned, you might find the Forester to be a great alternative, unless you really wanted the 200+ HP in the models you drove. I drive an H4 OB, and I think the 165 is just fine. Some taller people find that the sitting position in the Forester is different enough from the OB that the back legroom is greater than for the same driver in a Legacy or Impreza model... Any taller people have an opinion? I don't think my 5'7" qualifies me as an expert on this!!!
On another point, in about 7-8 years, whichever car you buy now will have aged just perfectly for your 9 year old son to start driving! (read, perfect excuse for you to get a new car!) If he's into cars at all, get his input! Make him think you're buying him a car that you are going to drive until he is old enough! Then when you need the car washed, you can tell him to go out and wash "his" car! (In another year or two, you can teach him to wax-on and wax-off!)
Are there child labor laws that would prohibit that? Regardless, Greg, get a Subaru, period. There is no other car on the road that is as much fun (under $35K), either to drive, or talk about on message boards!
Greg: the models with no moonroof should have more head room. Also, the H4/auto models have the exact same AWD system as the Bean, even the rear LSD. You're giving up nothing in that area.
The Forester doesn't have a lot of rear leg room if the front seat is all the way back, but move it up a little and it's OK (I'm 5'11 1/2" and two notches forward fits). Also, there is plenty of foot room under the seat, plus cup holders, big windows, and a nice view of the full moon if you opt for the S Premium.
I do think my dad's Outback is roomier, though. If that's a priority get the OB. Actually, take the family, get everyone in the cars, and see what they like. If they sample it you'll know what everyone will be happy with.
Congrats, Mayme. Glad to hear the dealer treated you well.
dervish: sounds like clutch chatter. You're still under the 12 month adjustment period, so let the dealer look at it.
Dan: I agree with paisan, but would go even further and change the transmission fluid and engine oil, too. Do it ASAP. Water contamination can really create a mess.
The base Outback models without the moon roofs do have a bit more headroom, probably 1-2" at least. I agree with others that the back seat legroom in the Forester and Impreza lineup is about the same, and tight. This is the factor that originally steered me into an Outback 2 years ago after shopping for a Forester. But, you can wear a chef hat in the Forester as Bart mentioned!
If you can, get an 02 model of the Outback. They switched to Bridgestone Potenzas from the Firestone Wilderness tires, put dual cupholders in the console, added a light around the ignition switch, and made numerous other minor tweaks. In addition, 01 models are now 1 year old by depreciation standards, so you would have to get a mighty good deal to justify the hit. You should be able to buy an 02 near invoice anyhow, so there may not be any real incentive to get an 01.
Regarding the AWD systems, I would clarify what another poster said by mentioning that the AWD system is the same between the Bean and automatic-trans H4 models -- it is Subaru's Active AWD system that is FWD biased (90/10 F/R nominal) but transfers torque aft due to slippage or to prevent possible slippage under acceleration. Very good system. 5-spd H4 models have a nominal 50/50 F/R split that can vary up to about 100% on either end in reaction to slippage only. This would definitely be a better system for off-road use.
My experience is that you'll get a better deal at the larger dealerships, and sometimes better service too. The more inventory they have, the more willing they are to work with you on price, and you will have a better selection to choose from. Generally, the better the dealer is rated by customers, the more cars they will have on the lot to offer for sale (based on my understanding of how Subaru allocations and manufacturer-to-dealer dealer incentives work). You can buy a car at one place and get it serviced at another if that works for you -- they are all held to the same standards by Subaru, and you should expect equal treatment no matter where you buy and get service done. If not, Subaru will rectify the situation pretty fast, as many of us can attest to.
As mentioned by Mayme Grim, most dealers will match Fitzgerald's pricing, so use that as a tool wherever you shop. This may be the best indicator of where you should buy, independent of the size of the dealer.
I have always felt that the H4/5-spd combo was about perfect, with plenty of power. I was not impressed by the H4/auto combination, however, and think the H6/auto is a better bet. The gas mileage is pretty good too.
I also gave the new CRV a look. It has quite a bit more power than the first-gen CRV, which fixed one of my major gripes with the vehicle. But, I still feel like the interior has a certain Rubbermaid "hose-out" feel to it. In this area, the Subarus have Honda beat.
I need help. I have a 1996 Legacy Outback with 130K miles. Over the past year there has been a recurring problem with the check engine light coming on which has been getting worse. I have had the spark plugs replaced and the fuel injectors serviced. The engine now will suddenly begin the miss badly and cut off for no obvious reason. The dealer now says that it could need a complete head overhaul because they have seen problems with the valve guides getting stuck to the valves and causing this problem. They estimate a $3,000 cost but can't guarantee that this is the problem. Obviously I don't plan on spending that kind of money without more information.
Actually, the 2001 had an incentive of $750 in some regions, though I expect it'll reappear on the 2002s soon. In time for holidays?
Dennis: first of all, wow, 130k miles? Are you a traveling salesman?
I would look at the 02 sensor, not the plugs again. Also check the plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, other things that if clogged would cause the engine to choke.
Our 626 had a CEL and it turned out to be a short in the O2 sensor, which was covered with road grime. Over $200 for it was painful, but nowhere near $3 grand.
I just bought a 01 Outback Limited Wagon. Great car! My dealership experience was the best I've ever had. The internet salesman, Chris Jones, was a pleasure to deal with. I almost bought an 02 Passat with 4motion - but the Nielo in Sac was horrible! I'm glad I didn't. The Subie seems equal in quality, has better grip, and was a whole lot cheaper! If you're considering buying, I whole heartedly suggest negotiating via the net. Made the whole processes a great deal more palatable. I had the deal before I stepped foot in the dealship.
Glad to hear that you had a good purchase experience. Thanks for sharing the details. We look forward to hearing more about 2001 Outback Limited Wagon.... Happy motoring!
On the subject of modifying seats, does anybody find the lumbar placement to be too low? I have successfully changed this on a Toyota before, and am thinking about it on the OB. I have an '02 base wagon. Has anyone tried removing the hardcover from the backside of the seatback? Looking for where the retainers or clips are located.
Ohio Greg, I am also 6'3" (and most of my height is above the waist), and I have no problem in my 99 Outback Limited w/ no moonroof. Same is true of the new ones I test drove, unlike some higher-priced wagons! FYI, I've got 153K on the odometer with only one minor maintenance issue-ever, and 26mpg lifetime. Subarus seem to be great buys, which leads me to ask... I am in the market for another one, and live 10 miles west of Akron, Ohio. Are any of those dealerships in trouble in Northeast Ohio, or do you live in another part of the state? Please reply here or email to free@fixyourskin.com. Thanks, OhioGreg. -Chip
I purchased a '01 Bean last August, and can tell you that central Ohio is a noncompetitive market for Subarus. The dealers here are happy with low turnover and high markups. I showed them my deal from out of state and they passed. Beechmont Subaru (Cincinnati) at least talked turkey, but politely told me they didn't need to sell cars that low. The impulsive buyer is how they make their money. I'm not quite sure what its like around Cleveland and Akron. Jack
Has anyone else noticed that if the front passenger lowers their visor it knocks the rearview mirror out of position? It seems like an odd design oversight for such a well put together car.
I know, but you can pivot the mirror down some and readjust it so that it's out of the way (at the expense of the view).
I always thought that it was a dumb visor design because the visor can't properly clear the map light "bump" when you want to swing it around to the side.
If you ask me, they should saw off the little "wings" on the inboard edges of the visors. It would fix all of the problems we have mentioned here. With the sun-block grating pattern in the middle of the windshield, it's not that critical to have the wings there anyway.
A hearty thanks to everyone for your help. Great comments. I am going this Saturday to test drive a 2002 Outback with Cold Weather package and a 5 speed. Hopefully it will be my son's car in 8 years or so and I can get the WRX if it is still made.
Follow ups. Is the traction system better on the auto or the stick?
hey, does anyone out there know of any sites or clubs that offer performance upgrades to outback wagons? everything i find is for WRX's or RS. how compatible would parts for a 2.5RS be w/ a 2.5 outback wagon? i'm not looking for rally sport, just want to supe up my grocery getter. thanks.
I think each AWD system has it's merits, and I'm not sure I can say one is better than the other. The 50/50 nominal split of the 5-spd models would have more balanced handling in my opinion, and be more likely to avoid slippage in the first place. For off-roading or rally driving, it would probably also be better.
The 90/10 system of the auto models seems more transparent and more benign in everyday driving, and gives you the fuel economy benefits of FWD most of the time. It seems to react pretty quick to slippage (much better than the system in the CRV, for example), and also kicks in proactively to improve traction upon acceleration and braking.
Bottom line, they're both great systems. I've driven both, and think they are equally good. By nature, the 5-spd car is a little more athletic feeling and more fun to drive, and the auto models are smoother. If you're going with the H4, I'd say the 5-spd transmission is the best.
I have a 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon. Its a standard wagaon with automatic transmission. I love the car.
Around the time that I bought the car I started having pain in my right hip. I have been seeing a chiropractor but the pain is still there. I am wondering if it could be the seat in my subaru? I actually find the seats comfortable and have not noticed any particular discomfort while driving. However, it turns out that another person at my work also bought a Legacy outback wagon recently and has also been experiencing pain in his hip.
I understand that is a problem with all base model Outbacks. If you buy a Ltd, Bean or VDC they have engineered a fix for the problem - less money in you pockets.
I have a base 2002 outback and love the seats no pain anywere and I have a bad back . Yes the lumbar support is set to low . Base models don't have seat side airbags .
I'm just curious how the software patch has worked for the couple of you that got it? Does anyone know anything else about this experimental fix, are they planning on offering it to others? My car is still pinging with no fix available in sight (based on SoA's position), but I still remain hopeful that some kind of patch has to be in the works if they've tried something a fix on a couple of cars. Who knows. Thanks Sharon
Good question! but no, base model cloth seats do not come with airbags (apparently our lives are not worth as much as you rich kids with leather! ;-) ).
The new ECU in my Subaru appears to have fixed the pinging, but the weather has been cooler, so we'll have to wait for next spring to see... I really don't know why SoA hasn't offered the fix to others.
Upgrades/mods are discussed a lot in the Subaru Crew - Modifications topic, under Owners Clubs.
Basically, the engines are the same, so most stuff bolts on. By that I mean intakes, cams, underdrive pulleys, that type of stuff. The exhaust is different, though.
Hey, I just realized my oldest will be driving in about 8 years (She's 10 now). She can get my O1 OB and you and I can meet in Penn. somewhere and buy WRXs or whatever is Subaru's fastest car at that point (Blitzen?). Hope she likes wagons.
It's a date. I'll bring the cigars. I have a feeling that the WRX will be replaced by another dream machine by that time. Do you have the auto or stick and what made you decide? I'm leaning toward the stick because of 1) lower initial cost 2) I want my son to learn to drive one. I know they have lower resale but that will be his problem :-)
Re my previous post: I'd like variable intermittent wipers for the front. I assume this requires a new wiper stalk plus???? The power steering noise is not the belt slipping. It sounds like my neighbors Caterpillar hydraullics system when cold. More of a loud groaning noise. I have clutch chatter an damp mornings. Usually one start in second gear (more slippage) cures the problem. The lumbar support problem is because only the bottom of the seat moves, the back of the seat does not. On many cars, the whole seat moves when you adjust it up or down. On Subies, the farther up you adjust the seat, the lower down the lumbar goes. One final question, anyone experience a bad fuel injector on a 2000 or newer Subie? #1 injector went bad at 25,000 miles. Ran and idled very poorly. Must be my bad CARMA!
It seems like everybody buys Subarus. No one talks about leasing a Subaru, and I never see ads regarding leases. Any reason why? I am thinking about getting a Subaru, but leasing for 3 years.
I am a strong advocate of leasing, especially if you see your needs/financials changing in the future, or are unsure about the reliability/suitability of your choice. And in the past there were many 'special deals' (called subvented leases) that got you into the vehicle at a cut rate price. Mfgrs spurred sales by inflating the residual or offering very low money factors (interest) that resulted in below market rate monthly payments. I once even got a $4k break on the residual at the end, bought the vehicle and traded it in on a new lease, making some money off of the deal. Leasing math is tricky, but the knowledgable buyer could do very well.
But unfortunately those days seem to be gone. Many banks and even mfgrs lost a fortune when residuals couldn't be recovered at auction. Especially with low interest financing being offered to purchasers, it is hard to find a lease deal that is financially viable. I bought my '02 OBW with Subaru financing when I ran the numbers and found that leasing was just too expensive. It is returning to being a tool of business, not average consumers. I recently read that leasing is down from an all time high of 40% to under 25% of US auto sales, and expected to continue to decline. End of the free ride......
I, too, am usually a big fan of leasing -- so long as it's a short term lease with no money down other than the 1st payment and the security deposit. I have leased several cars (Hondas) in the past and have done quite well. Leasing seems to work best on cars with strong resale values (because you are essentially paying monthly for the expected depreciation on the car) and Hondas always hold their value exceptionally well. Given the high resale values of Outbacks in my area (Reno) I anticipated being able to get a fairly low lease payment when I was shopping for my 01 Outback. In the end, I ended up financing the car for 5 years at 5.9% through subaru because it was only slightly more expensive (monthly) than leasing -- Subaru's leases were terrible compared to some others that I shopped. The best lease I could get on my car was around $425/mo for 3 years, which was WAY more than I wanted to pay for the car. Definately no subventing of these leases (unlike Honda, who routinely subvents leases on popular models).
How big a deal is the "don't drive at continuous speeds for long periods of time" statement in the break-in period info in the manual? Our new Outback has about 650 miles on it, and right after we bought it we drove it on a short road trip about 140 miles each way. Now we are considering heading out of town for a holiday getaway that would be a 12 hour drive each way. Is this really an issue?
just don;t use the cruise control as much and try to vary the speed a little on the highway. With 650 mile already , you only have 5 more hours to go before you can let it rip!
I have noticed that my H4 5spd. seems to "linger" at the rpm I choose to shift at. I don't know if it is due to greater internal rotating inertia within the engine/flywheel or some sluggishness in response to throttle return. Has anyone else noticed this? It seems pretty consistent at around 2800 rpm.
I do know that they re-worked the flywheel design on the 2.5 during the last re-vamp, in order to provide more usable power at low RPMs.
My H4/5-spd doesn't hang a whole lot between shifts, but I usually shift much higher (about 4000 RPM). In fact, I'm surprised you are shifting at 2800 -- that seems way too low compared to what I'm used to.
The H4 does hang on to RPMs between shifts better than some cars I have driven. I had a Honda Prelude with the VTEC engine. When I shifted near redline (7200 RPM), the car would actually decelerate when got into the next gear unless I cranked out a speed shift or blipped the throttle. I'm sure it must have had a really light flywheel, which let the RPMs drop quick.
I have a manual 02 OB and have noticed since day one that, when I accelerate (most noticeable from a stop), the car seems to hesitate in its acceleration. It's pretty consistent and I'm certain that it isn't my driving that's causing it; the clutch is all the way out.
It happens in 1st and 2nd and is most evident when I'm in need of high acceleration, but it only does it once, and then goes.
gam2: yes, I've heard of one other case. Ash had two injectors fail on his Outback, though once fixed it ran well. He moved to the UK and sold it.
ob11: an Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley would fix that, and give you better throttle response too. They're about $180 with the belt and not too hard for a DIY project. I think the stock engine is fine, though, and haven't done this mod.
I don't lease simply because I tend to hang on to my cars forever. Also, if you buy, you can buy at invoice and sell at retail, to truly get the lowest depreciation. Plus, I save up, earn interest and pay cash rather than paying them interest.
Think about this - why is there an interest charge on leases? Aren't you paying for the use of the car as you go? So why do you have to come up with the money up front (or pay interest) if you haven't used it yet? Doesn't make sense to me.
My Forester cost me $19,200, and I could sell it privately for $14k easily (some go as high as $15k in the paper). So my cost would be $5200 for 39 months and 42k miles. Add taxes, though, and that works out to $159 per month for me, could I lease a Forester for that much?
Heck no! I'm sure it would be at least $200-250 per month, with a penalty at the end for the extra mileage. If I had 1k miles per month allowance, I would pay a penalty of $210 if it was 7 cents per extra mile. Top that off with a few touch-ups that would be needed and I'd probably owe another $400 or so.
That's why I don't lease.
Caveat: it does make sense for the person that doesn't go over the mileage limit, trades in his car every 2-3 years, has no cash up front, and keeps his vehicle in perfect condition, at least if there is a manufacturer incentive on the lease.
My 01 LL Bean (4 mo old and 4000 mi on board) has been in the shop for 3 wks now. First it was a broken timing belt, now it is "more serious problem with a front of the engine". Do you think I can qualify for a replacement of the car as a " lemon". How do I do it?
Comments
Dan - in Naples, Florida
-mike
I just hope in the years to come it is as bulletproof as my Accords were, but so far I have no reason to believe otherwise. I hope you love your car as much as I love mine.
Cheers Pat.
Along with my parents, I am also a former Honda disciple, but have been very impressed by my two Subarus. As I pass my 2000 OB wagon on to my parents (talk about role reversal!), I am looking forward to ushering them into the world of Subaru ownership. I think the Outback will be perfect for my father, who does a lot of kayaking and is always working on projects around the house. The Subaru will be joining their 95 Accord, which has also been a great car.
Craig
First drive: Impreza WRX Wagon 5 speed. Very impressive handling, acceleration (no kidding, I know). Plenty of leg and headroom (I'm, 6'3"). Only problem, the back seat leg room is barely adequate for my 9 year old son.
Second drive: 2001 VDC Wagon. Only one left at the dealership. Again, very impressive, I'm just not going to pay that much. Then I learned that they had in stock.....
Third drive: 2001 LLBean Wagon in the color I want. The only problem I have is that with the moonroof, my head is bumping up against the liner. I adjusted the seat all the way back and down and there still wasn't enough head room. I can remedy that by reclining the seat somewhat, but the driving position starts to get ridiculous.
Questions....
Is the headroom better in the 4 cylinder Outback without the moonroof? Is the traction inferior to the system on the Bean and VDC? Anyone else faced this and ended up with the WRX? Is there sufficient room in back?
Also, all of the Subaru dealers in my area (closest one is 35 minutes away) are hole-in-the-wall type dearlerships. Small buildings, small parts and service departments. The only fairly large one is supposedly having trouble with its banks due to some sort of mismanagement. Any help would be appreciated. As you can probably tell, I would like to end up with a Subaru because of the handling, economy and safety. They just aren't making one that is a "super" fit right now. I don't really want to end up with the CRV, my wife already has one.
Bob
Pdubois - I wouldn't think a mechanic would modify a seat either. I would either do it my self (I like playing around with my welder and torch) or I would have a shop make up the parts for me. Looking at the seat today (I didn't take it off) it looks like it has a ton of travel, it probably just needs some new attachment rails made up that would mount the whole thing a few inches further back. I wouldn't think that would affect safety to much.
I did a speedo check with my GPS today and found that mine is reading from 2-3mph fast (75-speedo, 72 GPS). 2mph at about 35 and 3mph at about 75. Closer than I thought it would be, the car is so stable at 75 that it seems like the speedo has to be way off.
Eric
Cheers!
Paul
Good luck finding the Subie you like! Subies are great.
--Bart
After getting the car home, I realized the passenger door was not closing correctly, so I took it back to the dealer (Stohlman Subaru in Tysons Corner, VA) and they adjusted the window for me. I got the car home and checked it for dings, and didn't see any. The next day, I noticed a four-inch scratch on the rear bumper. I called the dealer and insisted I only drove the car home and they told me they would fix it that it probably happened there. Poetic justice.
Stohlman Subaru matched FitzMall's price and I got to do a no-haggle deal over the internet, which made it easier. I recommend them (just make sure all of the doors close properly.)
I have been a loyal Honda owner. Hope my Subaru will be as reliable as my Hondas have been. So far, I am happy with my decision. This message board helped me with my decision.
Mayme Grim
The VDC has the newer, and more advanced traction system that Subaru just came up with in the '01 model year.
DUKEPHOTO IN WV
'01 BLACK VDC
On another point, in about 7-8 years, whichever car you buy now will have aged just perfectly for your 9 year old son to start driving! (read, perfect excuse for you to get a new car!) If he's into cars at all, get his input! Make him think you're buying him a car that you are going to drive until he is old enough! Then when you need the car washed, you can tell him to go out and wash "his" car! (In another year or two, you can teach him to wax-on and wax-off!)
Are there child labor laws that would prohibit that? Regardless, Greg, get a Subaru, period. There is no other car on the road that is as much fun (under $35K), either to drive, or talk about on message boards!
Keep us posted!
Pete.
The Forester doesn't have a lot of rear leg room if the front seat is all the way back, but move it up a little and it's OK (I'm 5'11 1/2" and two notches forward fits). Also, there is plenty of foot room under the seat, plus cup holders, big windows, and a nice view of the full moon if you opt for the S Premium.
I do think my dad's Outback is roomier, though. If that's a priority get the OB. Actually, take the family, get everyone in the cars, and see what they like. If they sample it you'll know what everyone will be happy with.
Congrats, Mayme. Glad to hear the dealer treated you well.
dervish: sounds like clutch chatter. You're still under the 12 month adjustment period, so let the dealer look at it.
Dan: I agree with paisan, but would go even further and change the transmission fluid and engine oil, too. Do it ASAP. Water contamination can really create a mess.
Craig: 24mpg with an H6? That's great!
-juice
If you can, get an 02 model of the Outback. They switched to Bridgestone Potenzas from the Firestone Wilderness tires, put dual cupholders in the console, added a light around the ignition switch, and made numerous other minor tweaks. In addition, 01 models are now 1 year old by depreciation standards, so you would have to get a mighty good deal to justify the hit. You should be able to buy an 02 near invoice anyhow, so there may not be any real incentive to get an 01.
Regarding the AWD systems, I would clarify what another poster said by mentioning that the AWD system is the same between the Bean and automatic-trans H4 models -- it is Subaru's Active AWD system that is FWD biased (90/10 F/R nominal) but transfers torque aft due to slippage or to prevent possible slippage under acceleration. Very good system. 5-spd H4 models have a nominal 50/50 F/R split that can vary up to about 100% on either end in reaction to slippage only. This would definitely be a better system for off-road use.
My experience is that you'll get a better deal at the larger dealerships, and sometimes better service too. The more inventory they have, the more willing they are to work with you on price, and you will have a better selection to choose from. Generally, the better the dealer is rated by customers, the more cars they will have on the lot to offer for sale (based on my understanding of how Subaru allocations and manufacturer-to-dealer dealer incentives work). You can buy a car at one place and get it serviced at another if that works for you -- they are all held to the same standards by Subaru, and you should expect equal treatment no matter where you buy and get service done. If not, Subaru will rectify the situation pretty fast, as many of us can attest to.
As mentioned by Mayme Grim, most dealers will match Fitzgerald's pricing, so use that as a tool wherever you shop. This may be the best indicator of where you should buy, independent of the size of the dealer.
I have always felt that the H4/5-spd combo was about perfect, with plenty of power. I was not impressed by the H4/auto combination, however, and think the H6/auto is a better bet. The gas mileage is pretty good too.
I also gave the new CRV a look. It has quite a bit more power than the first-gen CRV, which fixed one of my major gripes with the vehicle. But, I still feel like the interior has a certain Rubbermaid "hose-out" feel to it. In this area, the Subarus have Honda beat.
Craig
Dennis: first of all, wow, 130k miles? Are you a traveling salesman?
I would look at the 02 sensor, not the plugs again. Also check the plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, other things that if clogged would cause the engine to choke.
Our 626 had a CEL and it turned out to be a short in the O2 sensor, which was covered with road grime. Over $200 for it was painful, but nowhere near $3 grand.
-juice
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
-juice
Steve
Does the '02 have side airbags in the seats? My 2K Ltd does, and I wouldn't want to go poking around in (or disassembling) a "loaded" seat!
Ken in Seattle
I am in the market for another one, and live 10 miles west of Akron, Ohio. Are any of those dealerships in trouble in Northeast Ohio, or do you live in another part of the state? Please reply here or email to free@fixyourskin.com. Thanks, OhioGreg. -Chip
I always thought that it was a dumb visor design because the visor can't properly clear the map light "bump" when you want to swing it around to the side.
If you ask me, they should saw off the little "wings" on the inboard edges of the visors. It would fix all of the problems we have mentioned here. With the sun-block grating pattern in the middle of the windshield, it's not that critical to have the wings there anyway.
Craig
Follow ups. Is the traction system better on the auto or the stick?
everything i find is for WRX's or RS. how compatible would parts for a 2.5RS be w/ a 2.5 outback wagon?
i'm not looking for rally sport, just want to supe up my grocery getter. thanks.
The 90/10 system of the auto models seems more transparent and more benign in everyday driving, and gives you the fuel economy benefits of FWD most of the time. It seems to react pretty quick to slippage (much better than the system in the CRV, for example), and also kicks in proactively to improve traction upon acceleration and braking.
Bottom line, they're both great systems. I've driven both, and think they are equally good. By nature, the 5-spd car is a little more athletic feeling and more fun to drive, and the auto models are smoother. If you're going with the H4, I'd say the 5-spd transmission is the best.
Craig
I have a 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon. Its a standard wagaon with automatic transmission. I love the car.
Around the time that I bought the car I started having pain in my right hip. I have been seeing a chiropractor but the pain is still there. I am wondering if it could be the seat in my subaru? I actually find the seats comfortable and have not noticed any particular discomfort while driving. However, it turns out that another person at my work also bought a Legacy outback wagon recently and has also been experiencing pain in his hip.
Has anyone experienced this?
mike k
Does anyone know anything else about this experimental fix, are they planning on offering it to others?
My car is still pinging with no fix available in sight (based on SoA's position), but I still remain hopeful that some kind of patch has to be in the works if they've tried something a fix on a couple of cars. Who knows.
Thanks
Sharon
So how about it? Anyone explore seatback removal?
Steve
The new ECU in my Subaru appears to have fixed the pinging, but the weather has been cooler, so we'll have to wait for next spring to see... I really don't know why SoA hasn't offered the fix to others.
Eric
Basically, the engines are the same, so most stuff bolts on. By that I mean intakes, cams, underdrive pulleys, that type of stuff. The exhaust is different, though.
-juice
Greg
system when cold. More of a loud groaning noise. I have clutch chatter an damp mornings. Usually one start in second gear (more slippage) cures the problem. The lumbar support problem is because only the bottom of the seat moves, the back of the seat does not. On many cars, the whole seat moves when you adjust it up or down. On Subies, the farther up you adjust the seat, the lower down the lumbar goes. One final question, anyone experience a bad fuel injector on a 2000 or newer Subie? #1 injector went bad at 25,000 miles. Ran and idled very poorly. Must be my bad CARMA!
gam2
But unfortunately those days seem to be gone. Many banks and even mfgrs lost a fortune when residuals couldn't be recovered at auction. Especially with low interest financing being offered to purchasers, it is hard to find a lease deal that is financially viable. I bought my '02 OBW with Subaru financing when I ran the numbers and found that leasing was just too expensive. It is returning to being a tool of business, not average consumers. I recently read that leasing is down from an all time high of 40% to under 25% of US auto sales, and expected to continue to decline. End of the free ride......
Steve
My H4/5-spd doesn't hang a whole lot between shifts, but I usually shift much higher (about 4000 RPM). In fact, I'm surprised you are shifting at 2800 -- that seems way too low compared to what I'm used to.
The H4 does hang on to RPMs between shifts better than some cars I have driven. I had a Honda Prelude with the VTEC engine. When I shifted near redline (7200 RPM), the car would actually decelerate when got into the next gear unless I cranked out a speed shift or blipped the throttle. I'm sure it must have had a really light flywheel, which let the RPMs drop quick.
Craig
It happens in 1st and 2nd and is most evident when I'm in need of high acceleration, but it only does it once, and then goes.
Any ideas/experience around this?
Thanks!
ob11: an Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulley would fix that, and give you better throttle response too. They're about $180 with the belt and not too hard for a DIY project. I think the stock engine is fine, though, and haven't done this mod.
I don't lease simply because I tend to hang on to my cars forever. Also, if you buy, you can buy at invoice and sell at retail, to truly get the lowest depreciation. Plus, I save up, earn interest and pay cash rather than paying them interest.
Think about this - why is there an interest charge on leases? Aren't you paying for the use of the car as you go? So why do you have to come up with the money up front (or pay interest) if you haven't used it yet? Doesn't make sense to me.
My Forester cost me $19,200, and I could sell it privately for $14k easily (some go as high as $15k in the paper). So my cost would be $5200 for 39 months and 42k miles. Add taxes, though, and that works out to $159 per month for me, could I lease a Forester for that much?
Heck no! I'm sure it would be at least $200-250 per month, with a penalty at the end for the extra mileage. If I had 1k miles per month allowance, I would pay a penalty of $210 if it was 7 cents per extra mile. Top that off with a few touch-ups that would be needed and I'd probably owe another $400 or so.
That's why I don't lease.
Caveat: it does make sense for the person that doesn't go over the mileage limit, trades in his car every 2-3 years, has no cash up front, and keeps his vehicle in perfect condition, at least if there is a manufacturer incentive on the lease.
-juice