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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I had some fun with my old Outback on my lot last spring 2001, before my house was built. The mud was spectacular. Thereafter, whenever it rained, that car left dirt rings on the pavement wherever I parked it. Took me months to get the mud out -- I would find more at every car wash. Just before I sold the car to my dad in December, I gave it a good wash and yet more mud came rolling out from the underbody. I bet the car gained about 100 lbs in mud weight during that driving spree.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I had sand in my undercarriage after a beach trip. After I washed it, there was enough sand to write "OBX" in it. I posted a photo back then, but PhotoPoint bombed.

    -juice
  • im_adamim_adam Member Posts: 2
    I just purchased a new Outback and am thinking of getting either a hood deflector (the plexiglass one) or a bra. Does anyone have any personal experience with either (pros and cons)?

    Thanks
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    I put on the plastic defector and have been pleased; easy to put on, looks fine on my wintergreen OB, and seems to do the job with no wind noise, rattles, or squeeks. I would do it again.

    Mike
  • taubatetaubate Member Posts: 6
    We just bought an '02 Legacy L Wagon and here in Minnesota, salt is used extensively on roads in the winter. Is additional rustproofing worth it? Thanks!
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I have had bras on all most of my cars and generally love them -- they require more attention than a deflector and must be removed periodically to clean them and dry (after rain/snow) but they keep the finish looking great. I've never had any scratching/clouding of the paint under the bra. The deflector I had on a truck several years ago was OK, too, but beware of the clear ones: they quickly get crap trapped behind them and are not easily cleaned. Go with the black one, would be my suggestion. Also, the bra will protect the whole bumper, not just the leading edge of the hood.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I hate em cause I'm generally lazy about the upkeep on them. Unless you take em off 1x a week and clean good under it, you will ruin your paint. Everyone I know who hasn't been super meticulous about their car bras has regreted putting it on.

    -mike
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Was about to say the same thing, I am meticulous about cleaning and I still ended up with a hood looking like it had been sanded under the bra.

    Never ever again, I now use the bug guard on any car I own with no problem.

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I use them as well. Saved me a few scratches and windshields on my Rodeo and Trooper. It may not stop all scratches, but it definitely breaks the fall for sure.

    -mike
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    I had one of those invisible bras installed on the hood and back of side mirrors. It was the 3M product. No complaints. Sometimes grime accumulates along the edge, but washes off.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I had that stuff put on the rocker panels of the GT.

    Cheers Pat.
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    I primed the fuel pump as c_hunter described in #4086. The car sat for over 10 hours today and it was 20 degrees when I left work. It started pretty good; much better than last night. I will try that again tomorrow (I hope it gets even colder).
    Becky
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    That's good to hear. Keep us posted.

    Where did you get the invisibra installed? Do you remember how much it cost? Does it look OK? How close to the front edge of the hood does the invisibra get? Does it wrap around the edge at all?

    I saw the 3M kits for the Outback for about $120 for the hood leading edge and the mirrors. I am tempted to get one, but am wondering about the install. I am too much of a perfectionist to mess with something like that -- too much room for error. One bubble or defect, and I'd be a nutcase!

    I'm wondering if I can find an installer.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I put one on my '02 OBW and have been very satisfied with how clean it keeps the hood. Definitely changes the aerodynamics for the better (preservation of paint!).

    I did have a bit of trouble initially getting it aligned right. Think it may have been a bit distorted and did not want to key up with the clips, but beat it into submission. I did use the extra 'tapes' on the hood front edges where the plexyglass wraps around and touches the paint in two spots to prevent scuffing.

    Do not - I repeat - do not let anyone drill holes and squirt in poly razmataz into your new car. At best worthless, at worse opens up new spots to moisture and potential rust.

    Steve
  • mdisaacsmdisaacs Member Posts: 28
    Traveling home on a snow packed road I went into a slow 180 and bumped the snow packed curb in my Sunfire. I thought nothing of it because of the snow packed curb and no visible damage or scratches. Back in July I started hearing a low rumble on the front drivers side (side that hit the curb) and took it in for service. The service rep. asked if I had hit a curb over the winter and I said no. They replaced both sets of front bearings. I truly believe it was premature bearing failure due to the spinout.
    Suggestion: If the wheel (rim) is straight and still balanced rotate it front or back so the dealership doesn't see the marks and raise an eyebrow...
    One more thing to add, there is far more going on with our Subie drivetrain than my front wheel drive Sunfire.
    Good Luck - Mike
  • wmiller4wmiller4 Member Posts: 97
    I have heard (but have yet to try) that you can use the spray tire dressing to spray
    the tire side of the mud flaps and wheel well in order to keep snow from building up.

    It sounds like it might just work.
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    I got started allowing the fuel system to prime way back with my '87 Prelude, then on my 92 Accord and now with my Bean....I certainly recommend it. My Accord would start within a split second even with over 150k mi on it.

    I have a couple of questions about after the car is running: On my Bean, after the car is started, as the indicator lights on the dash are going out, one stays on just a little longer...it is the one for the A/T Temp. Would it be safe to assume that one should not change the gear selection until the light has gone out? Also, what is a reasonable amount of warm up before moving....I know that too much is actually worse for the engine because of the rich mixture being run upon startup, but how short is too short? I typically give the car 10-15sec before I go, but I don't do any floor stomping type accelleration until the temp needle has gotten above the 'C' of the temp scale.

    Any comments?
  • hurler4hurler4 Member Posts: 104
    I'm looking to buy a Legacy GT Wagon. I already test drove one and was very impressed. One concern is the two sunroofs. Has anyone heard of any problems with eventual leakage, rattling, or any problems with weakening of the car frame by having two sunroofs? Frankly, I'd be happy with one sunroof (or none), but that's not an option with the GT Wagon.
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    After posting my message above, I went to mysubaru.com and pulled up my owners manual and guess what I found....on page 7-10 it has a heading about starting under extreme cold. Under that heading it specifically states to depress the gas pedal half way when starting, especially if it did not start on the first attempt without depressing the pedal. On the previous page, it describes the start procedure under normal conditions. It states to NOT step on the pedal at the first attempt but DO step on it on the second attempt if the car didn't start.

    Hmmmmm.....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You go Craig. Is Subaru customer service hiring? :-)

    Tire dressing seems to be slippery after you apply it, so that just might work to keep snow off the mud guards.

    hurler: I've never heard of any problems with the dual moonroof.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Robert: My AT temp light also stays on a second or two after the others, but it is probably just something to do with the computer's startup sequence. This light would come on if the AT fluid temperature got too hot, and probably doesn't have anything to do with it being cold.

    On a related subject, I think I remember hearing that the H6 got a transmission cooler, anybody know for sure?

    I usually let the car warm up for a minute when it's cold, which is about the time it takes me to back out of the garage, shut the door, and get settled. I might wait 2-3 minutes if it was really cold, which would be about the time required to scrape the windows.

    Marc: I have never heard of any problems with the dual moon roofs. In fact, I am kind of impressed with their design compared to moon roofs I have had on Hondas. The Subaru design seems to be quite solid. The car's frame is pretty strong, with a ring structural member that runs between the front and back moon roofs. I'm sure this must help offset some of the stiffness you lose when cutting holes in the roof.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Craig: this surprised me, but I found out that even H4 automatics get an engine oil cooler. At least that is true for the Forester.

    Manuals don't, but iSR Performance sells the kit if you wanted it.

    -juice
  • im_adamim_adam Member Posts: 2
    Thanks very much for all your feedback. I think I'm going with the deflector (dark color). Can this be purchased at a auto parts store or is it only available from the dealer?
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Go with the OEM one available at the dealer. I think someone mentioned they installed an aftermarket one and it ended up coming unattached while driving.

    The OEM one not only clips on to the hood, but it attaches with 2 screws to the underside of the hood (holes already there).

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Normally I say go with OEM, but I believe subaru gets their wind deflectors from the same place Isuzu does (australia) and I've had my Isuzu ones break on me when waxing if not careful and had some slapping on the edges as well. I bought a lund replacement one and that has been great so far.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    The Subaru deflector has silicone bumpers under the outer wings to stabilize it. There is no freeplay out there.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I am somewhat concerned by the number of posts about hard cold starting and the need to 'prime' the electric pump. While all might not work this way, my exposure to working on multi-point port injector EFI systems has included the need to carefully vent the pressure in the lines prior to removal of the fuel rail, etc. EFI systems run at about 30psi, and the lines should stay charged (under pressure) for ages if the system is well sealed. That is part of the key to instant starting.

    If the lines are leaking down only on cold nights and priming really makes all the difference, I would suspect a seal problem in a one-way valve, allowing fuel to exit the lines and escape back to the tank (or maybe to the vapor recovery system?).

    Steve
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    Craig,

    I had the invisibra installed by a window tinting shop recommended by my Subaru dealership. They do the installs for the luxury car dealers in town. If your dealer can't recommend one, you could probably call a Mercedes or BMW dealer for a recommendation. I can't remember the cost, but it wasn't cheap. 250 - 300 bucks for hood and side mirrors. I think the side mirrors were 50 bucks a piece. The price for the hood depended on how far up the hood I wanted it to go. There were 2 options. The installer told me the shorter one (less expensive) is usually fine for Outbacks because their hood doesn't have a lot of vertical exposure. He puts the longer one on VW bugs for instance. It does wrap around the curves and he said the Outback was a little tricky because of the fangs (for lack of a better word) on the hood (if I'm recalling correctly). I think it looks fine. You can see the outline of the edge (that's where dirt can build up between washes). My Bean is white frost pearl and he said it is less obvious on that color then on the bright white Outbacks. Don't know about other colors. He told me there is a certain bug that will stain yellow and won't wash off, but it fades off in the sun. I've done 3 trips to Wichita and have come home plasterd with those big midwestern bugs and they have not left permanent stains. I have a little wrinkling along the edge on one of the side mirrors. I know he would have replaced it if I took it back, but it doesn't bother me. He said it's important to have a good installer. He was repairing a BMW SUV that had been damaged by another shop that had installed an invisibra of another product.
    Becky
  • mtnshoppermtnshopper Member Posts: 58
    I bet you could go to a shop and take a look at a car they have just completed to see how it looks. He had a couple of cars in there with the invisibra on (like lingerie models). ;-)

    I think they pop some of the bubbles with a pin. But there were some bubbles right after the install that went away as the product dried.

    Oh yeah...and I had my headlights done too. Cuz of those trips into Kansas. I lost both headlights and a windshield on my Mazda in one shot from a gravel truck on one of those rural highways. Had a spot light in my emergency kit and had to drive home with my brother shining the spotlight on the road ahead.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They ought to come out with a Victoria's Secret catalog for inivisibras! LOL!

    -juice
  • david55838david55838 Member Posts: 55
    Thanks Mike for the input. I'm pretty sure I'd better get the aligment checked.

    Patti - I'm hoping you'll know the answer to this. Most alignment shops don't yet have 2002 alignment specs for cars. I'm wondering if 2001 specs are the same for a base 5-speed OB. If they are, I can feel (somewhat)confident that the shop will be able to check and/or adjust the alignment properly.

    Thanks in advance,
    David
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep I had those same silicone bumpers on the trooper one, they would slap against the fenders though. Is yours actually touching the fenders? Mine had about 3/4"-1" of space between the hood/fenders and the plastic.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    We both live in Putnam, we both drive Outbacks, we both installed our own hood deflector and I seem to be following you around the boards today. Your scaring me.

    I also noticed the deflector touches the hood where it wraps around underneath for the screws. It did wear away a small amount of paint underneath which I had to touch up.

    Greg
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Steve: I remember de-pressuring the EFI system on a car once (89 Dodge Shadow with the 2.5 engine), in order to replace the fuel filter. I just ran 12V to the single injector to bleed it down. However, I have replaced fuel filters on recent model Hondas and did not have to do this. Maybe they have made changes to the system designs, and certain parts are not pressurized any more. I do know that much more rigid emissions regulations have gone into effect to minimize vapor release and stuff like that. While I would think that keeping fuel trapped in the system with a check valve would be a good thing in that regard, perhaps the systems work a different way now. Anyone who has replaced a fuel filter on a late model Subaru should be able to tell us if the line was pressurized or not.

    Becky: thanks for the details!

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Greg and Steve are clones! ;-)

    I changed my fuel filter ('98 Forester). Very little gas spilled, so I'd guess it's not pressurizes, at least at that point in the fuel system.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Yep, that definitely was not pressurized then, otherwise you would have been hosed down with gas. Where is the filter?

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Engine bay, on the driver's side. I had photos but again PhotoPoint is a goner.

    -juice
  • pvonhaampvonhaam Member Posts: 4
    I'm dipping my feet into the swimming pool of Subaru, and I have one question for the Subie enthusiasts: do you ever have problems with the frameless windows? I like almost everything else about this car, but I'm concerned the windows either won't seal tightly or will rattle. Does anyone have thoughts on this? To be honest, this is one of the last barriers to keep me from diving in. Thanks in advance for your input.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In my family we have:

    '88 XT6, '91 XT6, '91 Legacy, '97 Legacy, '97 Outback, '00 Outback.

    They all have framelesswindows. None have problems even the XT6s which are 2-door and have even bigger windows than the others. No door seal problemseither. Hope this helps.

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Peter-
    when they're up - there's no rattling and the seal is just as good, if not better, as framed doors.
    You will experience some rattling when they are wound (sp?) down when closing the door, but thats VERY normal.
    Like Paisan (mike) has assured you, and he has a string of Subaru's to back the claim.

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My family in general will keep the windows all the way down or all the way up. This may help to keep em from loosening up.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I was also leery of the frameless windows. I can remember older GM cars with this design rattled like crazy and had poor seals. But the Subaru design is pretty good. They seal extremely well, and the only time I hear a muffled rattle is if I slam the driver's or passenger's front door with the window all the way down. They're pretty much silent all the rest of the time. Because the rear window glass doesn't go down all the way, the back doors never rattle in my experience.

    I tell you what, why don't you take a test drive and try slamming the driver's door with the window in various positions. Then you will see (or hear) for yourself.

    Craig
  • bozman9bozman9 Member Posts: 15
    David,

    I would definitely recommend a quick alignment check. I had a similar experience one year and hit a curb but the car drove straight so I thought nothing of it. Well, eventually I noticed that my tires were wearing funny and took it in. My car was WAY out of alignment; they showed me the report and it was pretty scary. I guess I got "lucky" and everything that was out of align. balanced each other out on both sides so it still drove straight.

    Good luck and watch those curbs! :)

    -Jason Boswell
  • david55838david55838 Member Posts: 55
    Thanks Jason,

    I'll be taking it in for an alignment check as soon as I can find out if '02 specs are the same as '01. Most shops don't yet have '02 specific specs, ("Yeah, sure - come on down, we'll take care of it for yah") so I want to be sure I'm not making it worse.

    David
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,397
    David,
    You might want to check the specifications pages at the end of the owner's manual. I saw the settings for my car there.
    Jim
  • smithda1smithda1 Member Posts: 15
    What do you do with your right foot when you are using cruise control.

    My previous two vehicles were mini vans so the foot room and sitting position were completely different.

    When using cruise I cannot find a comfortable spot for my right foot. Seems that if the steering wheel moved up another inch or telescoped out an inch then I could get a comfortable position.

    I am not tall - 5'10" with most of my height in the body. ie shortish legs.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I usually place it flat in front of the pedal area. (how vague is that?) :)

    I'm also about 5'-10". Seat not all the way back, but maybe 75%. Steering tilted all the way up. Seat back is 2 notches tilted back.

    Usually I just pull the leg back a bit and rest the foot on the floor, either flat or on the side. I typically drive with the back portion of the seat bottom up and front portion down, but when driving long distances, I find that raising the front a bit helps that right leg rest better, especially when using the cruise.

    Try adjusting the bottom seat angle - that may help provide some room.

    -Brian
  • subiefansubiefan Member Posts: 7
    NOT TO WORRY!

    I had a'97 OB LTD for 5 years/78K and NEVER had a problem with the frameless windows. I know what you mean, though; even with my past experience, every time I encountered a frameless window at the Philadelphia Auto Show two weeks ago, I immediately thought the same thing.

    When they are part of the way down, they do rattle and sound loose when you shut the door, but that's the only time you'll notice them as opposed to framed windows.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,397
    David,
    I just realized my post #4147 only gave half the information. Here's the data for 2000 from my owner's manual.

    2000 OB wagon
    toe front 0 +/- 0.12 in (0 +/- 3 mm)
    rear 0 +/- 0.12 in (0 +/- 3 mm)
    Camber front 0 deg 20 min +/- 30 min
    rear 0 deg 10 min +/- 45 min

    Now for the confusion...my wheels were aligned this moming. Everything on the printout is in tenths of a degree.

    I was only trying to help......
  • david55838david55838 Member Posts: 55
    Thanks, Jim. It never occured to me that the specs would be in the owners manual... I'll compare to what you have for your 2000.

    David
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