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Here's my story:
Wife and I bought a Legacy L wagon in 1995. We then lived in upstate NY (now reside in the South)and needed better traction than a 91 Civic SI afforded.
After 6.5 years and 104K miles, we have only put in $400 for repairs other than routine maintanence. Wasted $600+ on that ext warranty. So now that I think the car is into its nickel and dime phase (needs a water pump for ~$450 at dealer), we're looking at buying a new car.
We drove the base Outback with heated, cloth seats and OUCH! What's with the sheet of plywood? It was 30 degrees out and I'm not sure that made them stiffer, but it made us think we needed to move up to a Limited to get the leather. However, now it's $3K more than we want to spend and the seat doesn't feel that much better. Only other issue is the front pass. leg room for me (5'11"). Otherwise, this car rides and feels GREAT!
So now we're looking at a Honda CRV or maybe just going to a Toyota Camry since the AWD isn't important down South... you don't want to drive with Southerners when snow hits the ground!
We are huge Honda fans and allergic to minivans. Subaru treated us extremely well as far as reliability and durability.
With only $2000-$2500 worth in trade-in, I might just enter the second century of miles and pay for the occassional part failure. I just hate to pay dealer repair fees.
What are your thoughts folks?
We test drove the H4 and the H6, and actually both felt a bit underpowered, the H6 less so. The Bean interior is what sold us - really quite nice.
Now need to decide on color - timberline or red. Both are great. And, anyone in NJ know of a good window tinting shop?
thanks..
Your call about replacing or keeping - I always start in the "keep" position because I can change my mind later - once it's gone - that's it! I tend to look at reliability (if it's a second car, around-town type, this matters less) and the hassle factor of going upside-down (i.e., being faced with an inoperative vehicle where the repairs exceed its value).
If you're looking at a CR-V, let me mention a nice vehicle I came across when I was looking a couple of years ago (ended up with the OB Ltd. Wagon) - the Mazda Tribute. Especially if there is only the two of you - it was peppy, fairly inexpensive, nicely appointed - and I believe it came in a 2WD and 4WD configuration. Mazdas have a pretty good reliability rep, too, but I haven't followed this vehicle - you might want an update from CR or Edmunds.
Depending upon where you are "down South" - you might want a beach-capable vehicle.
Good luck!
Ken in Seattle
My previous Outback was Timberline Green, and I started out wanting a different color just for a change. I really liked Regatta Red, but wasn't sure if it was something I would be happy with long term. In the end, I went with Timberline again (shows you how exciting I am). Regatta Red and Timberline Green are equally nice colors in my opinion, so it will have to come down to your personal preference. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.
Craig
Also, a couple of times I have almost caught my head on the edge of the window when mucking around with the car. You don't quite notice the window edge the same as a framed door.
Tom
Even with my 1300psi pressure washer I use cannot make the frameless doors on my Forester leak. My Miata does, but only slightly.
I tend to use cruise control only on long trips, so I actually try to vary the position of my feet so they don't get fatigued.
Jetson: our 626 has reached the nickel-and-dime phase, too, but for us it's more like quarters-and-half-dollars. I say keep your loyal friend a little longer, then shop the L and GT models.
Tribute had 6 recalls or so, and has not been reliable per CR. Both Mazda and Honda have short, 3 year warranties. Subaru, Toyota, and Nissan are up to 5/60 on the powertrain, if you want to avoid the nickel-and-dime thing for a couple more years.
aps5: when you are that close to invoice, it's a good price. The key is how you felt treated by the dealer IMHO.
-juice
The 4EAT can be conservative at times, but it's an adaptive transmission. So, if you drive it like a grandma, it'll shift sooner (and at lower rpms), causing it to feel underpowered at times.
The manual does let you control the engine better, and therefore is probably quicker than the 4EAT.
Our AT Outback has been great. I too thought it might be underpowered coming from a 350 V8, but I was pleasantly surprised. While it's no WRX, it's sufficient for us.
You should test drive a manual and an auto when you get to the dealer. Also, have you considered the H6 Outbacks? While only offered in the auto, they provide additional power over the H4.
-Brian
Good luck,
Greg
Greg
-mike
Thanks!
Jillian
-mike
Ross
On another topic, I thought I'd share with you an impression of my 00 5spd Outback's emergency handling.
I was travelling at 45-50 kph in the left kerb lane of a 4 lane one-way street in downtown Vancouver. It was raining as usual, traffic was light and I had green lights ahead for about 5 blocks. I remember thinking that pretty soon one of them would go red in right front of me. About 3 metres in front and in the lane to my right was a Chevy Astrovan or something similar, travelling at the same speed.
Suddenly, with no warning and only slight slackening of speed (so that I was almost level with his bumper) this bozo hangs a 90 degree left turn into another one-way street! I was unprepared for this, especially as a couple of pedestrians were in the crosswalk of this street anyway. No time to honk, think, panic or do anything except slam on the brakes and haul hard left on the wheel. To my utter amazement the car actually made a tight turn with the ABS pumping and stopped about 1/2 way through the turn, across the crosswalk. The pedestrians had to leap out of the way of the van which went wider than me, but ended up just inches away alongside. I was about to jump out and give this moron a piece of my mind (most motorists do not carry guns in Canada) but he looked at me kind of scared and took off.
By this time the light had changed and I was blocking traffic, so I manouvered myself back onto my original street and drove away, heart pounding. As I did so one of two guys who had been standing on the sidewalk observing the whole thing said, "Good driving.". I think it was intended as a compliment rather than sarcasm. I didn't respond but thought to myself that I would NEVER have been able to perform that manouver in any other vehicle I've owned, except possibly the Austin Mini. And I didn't even stall the engine.
Thank you Subaru.
Ross
Are you sure you don't wish you'd been in that lemon yellow Pacer listed in your profile instead of the Outback?
Steve
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Ross
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
Mine actually has considerable downforce at the outer edges keeping a tight seal on the hood surface by way of the silicon bumpers and the paint protector tape squares they supply. I would call it a successful design.
Greg, I think I may have mentioned that I used the spare tapes to cover the underside hood edge where the wraparound plexyglass just touches the paint. My OCD at work.....
Steve
You are quite right about a possible change in design. I had to replace manifold gaskets on my ancient Maxima, and discharged the rail as you described. But thinking about it, when I changed the fuel filter on my Toyota, I braced for sprayed fuel, but got very little.
I guess pressurization must now occur rapidly enough to give instant starting. Still, EFI injectors yield poor spray patterns if the rail pressure is low, and that sounds like what is at play here on cold starts. I still think that something is not sealing properly when cold and curbing the pumps efficiency.
Again, my 'old knowledge' may be flawed, but I remember that the Datsun used a loop type rail to maintain volume reserve and pressure. Excess / overpressure was shunted back to the tank by exceeding spring tension on a one way valve. Maybe bad???
Steve
Jillian: just give it enough time for the oil pressure to build (at least 10 seconds) before you drive off.
Keith: I saw an Escort that had been broken into in my neighborhood, and called the cops. When they came, we took a close look and the thieves had pried open the door, bending the door frame to get in. So a determined theif will get in anyway, and do more damage while they're at it.
Insurance rates are about average, so I think the design is sound.
-juice
We have an inch or two of wet snow this morning and my carpool vehicle, a Nissan Xterra, did not impress. Some roads are cleared and wet, others are covered in snow, and there's patches of all sorts in between. He used 2WD all the time because the 4WD is only usable in very slippery or rough conditions, and you have to go very slow to engage or disengage it. How useful is that for commuting?
Craig
Greg
Greg
-juice
I believe the GT comes with 205/55 stock. For a second car or for that matter a first, the L has a lot going for it. Jack
Steve
Please help if possible.
Also remember you're changing gearing rather significantly. The Outback has a 4.1:1 final drive, but the L has a taller 3.7:1 ratio, something like that. So you'll slow it down off the line, but get lower revs on the highway. Your speedo would be something like 7% off, too.
So if you wanted a Plus One, I would recommend GT sizes, 205/55R16, not Outback sizes.
-juice
Martin - Oil leaks, unfortunately, are a known issue with the "older" H4s (pre 2.5L). I would call 800-SUBARU3 and complain. You might be able to convince them to help out since it only has 68K miles on it and current powertrains are warranted for 60K miles. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Greg
David
I work in B/310 - the Analytical Services lab (2-2381). My screen name FIBBER comes from what my team members are called - those of us involved with an obscure corner of the world of physics/chemistry/electrical engineering: Focused Ion Beam (FIB).
Do you work for the site contractor Johnson Controls, or one of the big tool suppliers like AMAT? We need to get together for lunch someday....
Steve
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I had to replace a rock-damaged fog light assembly - access to the bulb is somewhat similar and I believe you'll have to partially remove the lamp assembly to replace the bulb.
Go up behind the spoiler from underneath to get access to the clips that hold the whole assembly in. As I recall, they look like big Phillips screws (they're similar to the quick release plugs that hold the plastic oil pan shield in place). Pull out the center sections with the Phillips head, then the outer collar, and the fog light assembly should come out for bulb replacement.
Once again, sorry for the problem and the delays.
Patti
This is very annoying. I will probably not use this dealer again (Troncalli in Roswell). My plan now is to take them the before and after sheet from the alignment shop and make them pay for the alignment (it would have been covered by warranty if they'd only done what I'd asked).
Sorry....I just had to vent my frustrations. I guess here in the South our dealer network is limited as Subarus are about as rare as Bugattis here.
-r
In 6 short weeks I've put enough mileage on my OBW that it goes to the dealer (Curry) for its 3K oil change on Saturday. I'm happy to report that no glitches have as yet shown up and the ECU has adjusted itself nicely to my lead foot. This car just gets better and better!
Lyn
The overall experience gave me a pretty low opinion of the local Subaru dealer's ability to "care" about a problem. They didn't try very hard to fix it, and I got the impression they were a bunch of bozos. I was tempted to go back to them and ask for a refund on the $85 they charged me for an alignment, but decided I had better things to do with my time. I now use a different dealer, 50 miles away.
Craig
-mike
-r
-mike
Patti
I don't want to pay $800 for one of those flat roofs that will be behind my head.
Does anyone know if I can buy an aftermarket flip roof that is not flat like the newer limiteds?
S-
Shawn